Terry Goodkind and the Sword of Truth novels

[Anoxanmore]

he is not an author but a Xerox. 'nough said.

 

Really?  Explain how Goodkind is a "Xerox" please, and of whom.

 

He is a Xerox of himself. Ignoring the fact he "borrows" ideas. (cough)Sister of the Dark(cough) 

 

TG in a nutshell:

1. Hero

2. Heroine

3. Preach

4. Fail for half or three-fourths the book

5. Magically make it work at the end

6. Repeat for 12 books with different settings.

[Verbal32]

he is not an author but a Xerox. 'nough said.

 

Really?  Explain how Goodkind is a "Xerox" please, and of whom.

 

He is a Xerox of himself. Ignoring the fact he "borrows" ideas. (cough)Sister of the Dark(cough) 

 

TG in a nutshell:

1. Hero

2. Heroine

3. Preach

4. Fail for half or three-fourths the book

5. Magically make it work at the end

6. Repeat for 12 books with different settings.

 

I agree about the "of himself" part 100%.  Your 1-6 listing there is also accurate.

 

The only thing that I disagree with is your statement of him "borrowing ideas".  This is fantasy - ALL authors have borrowed ideas from other authors past and present.  So future authors have that much less space to invent new things.  I get that you are comparing the Sisters of the Dark to the Black Ajah.  How about the Aiel to the Fremen from Dune?  The Aes Sedai to the Bene Gesserit?

 

I know I'm re-hashing an argument that repeats itself around here, but every time I see somebody talk about Goodkind borrowing elements and ideas, I'm reminded that they ALL do it.  And I think the guy's an a-hole, but I'll defend that particular point.

[Barmacral]

The difference between RJ and Crapkind though Verbal, is while RJ may have said "Oh, I think the Fremen look cool" he also said "but I don't want to have a clone of the Fremen, I want my own unique idea" and did research on his own ideas to develop something unique to WoT. There is no way that you could ever claim that the Aiel are clones of the Fremen.

 

Crapkind doesn't do research, he just spouts his mouth off and calls everything he puts into his book his own unique ideas... except for Ayn Rand's philosophies.

 

RJ can give real sources to all of his work, so they are at least somewhat original and unique to him. Crapkind can't, so I'm content to believe that he's just ripping his ideas off of other people.

[Talmanes]

There are also other copied things such as the whole male confessors vs. male channelers being destined to go insane. Richard lived in a backwater village like Rand. Even the whole rift into the underworld thing and dead coming back is pretty close to the WoT too.

[Mr Ares]

You'd have to read some of it. I'm not sure most people could survive the whole way through without alcohol poisoning.

 

This reminds me of the old Don Henley song "There Ain't Enough Whiskey in Texas". BTW, you've convinced me to check out the "Prince of Nothing series". <scratches head> You're not Scott Bakker are you?

No, I'm not Scott Bakker, I just take his money and pimp his series.

[Verbal32]

The difference between RJ and Crapkind though Verbal, is while RJ may have said "Oh, I think the Fremen look cool" he also said "but I don't want to have a clone of the Fremen, I want my own unique idea" and did research on his own ideas to develop something unique to WoT. There is no way that you could ever claim that the Aiel are clones of the Fremen.

 

Crapkind doesn't do research, he just spouts his mouth off and calls everything he puts into his book his own unique ideas... except for Ayn Rand's philosophies.

 

RJ can give real sources to all of his work, so they are at least somewhat original and unique to him. Crapkind can't, so I'm content to believe that he's just ripping his ideas off of other people.

 

I understand, and that's why I said TG is an a-hole about it.  But they both borrow elements of fantasy and add their own twist.  The Aiel are not exactly like the Fremen, but they are very similar.  Same with the Sisters of the Light/Dark and the Aes Sedai and Bene Gesserit.  The males of each group are unique in their powers and risks, but they all share from the same elements.  Just because RJ was good about it and Goodkind wasn't, doesn't mean that they didn't both do the same type of thing with borrowed elements.

[Anoxanmore]

I guess I just don't like how TG took my beloved WoT, which I read first, and made it into a 10 yr old's playland with a god figure (Richard), and scary insane chickens, with lots of rape, murder, and just out right killing for no reason.  Its like WoT + Left Behind + crap.

 

Makes me sad. Although, the first book, and the first one alone, is awesome by itself. (So is Faith of the Fallen,but you almost need to have read the previous was to know WTF (who) is Nicci.)

 

Even though Nicci = Lanfear.

[NetSlider]

he is not an author but a Xerox. 'nough said.

 

Really?  Explain how Goodkind is a "Xerox" please, and of whom.

 

Ok, read these three works and tell me I'm wrong: LOTR, Terry Brooks, and finally RJ. Oh, I forgot to mention probably some elements of Ed Greenwood as well. It's as bad as Eragorn (though a kid wrote that one).

[el Nynaeve]

Love the Xerox comment, I'll have to remember that. :D

 

Most people's biggest gripe is not that Goodkind borrows, they all do that, but that he borrows and then doesn't give any credit. I don't like Goodkind because he includes a lot of needless violence among other things. RJ put in violence too, but there was usually a purpose to it. I made myself read the whole series (don't know why) and had a big 'wtf' right at the end. The only original thing in it was the 'chicken that is not a chicken' and that was a 'wtf' moment too.

[Verbal32]

he is not an author but a Xerox. 'nough said.

 

Really?  Explain how Goodkind is a "Xerox" please, and of whom.

 

Ok, read these three works and tell me I'm wrong: LOTR, Terry Brooks, and finally RJ. Oh, I forgot to mention probably some elements of Ed Greenwood as well. It's as bad as Eragorn (though a kid wrote that one).

 

I think you missed my point.  Read Dune and then read the WoT.  Many similarities.  And the same goes with Dune and earlier works.  And mythology.  It's the way fantasy works.  If you don't like the guy, fine - that's cool.  But don't condemn him for doing the same thing that Jordan did.  They both borrow common elements from mythology and earlier fantasy.

 

And about Eragon...yeah, Paolini was 15 years old when he wrote it.  He mostly took from LotR and Star Wars.  I'll never forget a buddy of mine telling me:

 

"If Eragon blows up the Death Star, I'm done reading."

[NetSlider]

I know that they all borrow, but only concepts. I mean, for example The Sword of Shannara is very LOTR like. But, that's where it pretty much ends. It has some similarities as far as what is right and what is wrong. And of course there are parts that remind you of other things. You've mentioned Dune - the only thing that is so similar in wot to Dune is Aiel, and even than take away the sands and see what's left. Goodkind, on the other hand, is not just simmular when in developing his plot, but he is pretty much identical. i mean, come on sisters going to teach a lesson, and the old wizards does not want old responsibilities - these are hands down parts of Shannara and WoT. I'm not even mentioning sand people and "The Sword of Truth" - the sword of truth, as it stands, is by far most arrogant and shameless plagiarism of The Sword of Shannara, even to its core principles.

Anyway, i never really had any personal issues with Goodkind, though i must say some comments he made about RJ are way out of line. but as an author...he is simply isn't one.

[shinerfan]

I read the first SoT years ago and didn't much care for it. Then in '05 I was working the gas fields  southeast of New Orleans immediately after Katrina and there were no actual bookstores open at the time. The closest I could come was a Walgreen's. I bought a handful of cheap paperbacks one of which was the TG book that dealt with the character that had been erased from everyone's memory (I don't remember the title). It was far, far, worse than I remembered. Having said that, all these comments about the evil chicken have almost convinced me to read the last book. I'll fight this as best I can.

[Anoxanmore]

The evil chicken was in book 2. teehee. :D

 

Last book, had some awesome fight scense though, and I did like the Ja'La games. I still hate Richard.

 

*Edited*

 

Nicci should have won... she was so pretty. :-( 

 

(Richard even said she was more beautiful than that confessor... but he loved her so boo)

[Murphy3]

This is my first post on this site.  Let me just say that I'm new to Robert Jordan's work.  I just started reading a few months back.  Last night, I finished book 12 I believe.  So, I'm waiting like the rest of you for the series to continue.

 

As for Goodkind.. I absolutely loved the first 4-5 books of his series.  But, Goodkind became so preachy and repetitive that it became difficult to enjoy the rest of the series.  He was on such a highhorse concerning religion.  I don't get it.. how do you go from the dead playing a role in the series to later saying that there is nothing after death?  It's almost as if he went through a spiritual change at some point during the series and decided to beat the readers over the head with his beliefs.  It was nauseating.  I don't care what your opinion is, just don't force it on the reader over and over again.

 

Another big issue I had was the repetitiveness.  So, yeah, Richard's going to get captured.. and yeah, he's going to get captured again.. and he's going to get captured again..  It was entirely too repetitive.  Plus, Goodkind reset earlier parts of the story far too often.  You could easily skip page after page during his later books without missing anything other than him re-setting what had happened earlier in the series.  At times, it almost appeared that Goodkind was getting paid by the page.  I have never had that issue with Jordan.  From time to time, the story has gotten a tad slow for me, but it quickly picks up.

 

Another gripe about Goodkind.. Some of the ideas were terrible such as the ear work or whatever it was that made everyone forget Kahlan... and yes, the possessed chicken was pretty bad as well.

 

However, I must also say that his series had some phenomenal moments.  I cannot remember all of the characters names, but when Richard was basically kidnapped or whatever and taken deep into the enemies territory where he worked as a stone worker and did some elaborate carvings.  That was a very enjoyable storyline.

 

But, I really cannot comment too much on the storylines simply because I don't remember the characters names at this point.  I will say that I would never recommend The Sword of Truth simply because of the preachiness and the about change in Goodkind's philosophy.  It made the last half of the series a difficult read.  However, I will recommend Jordan's work to others..absolutely 100%.  I almost feel that Goodkind might have been slightly better when at his best when compared to Jordan.  But, Jordan was at an elite level far more often and was much more consistent.  Goodkind had some really, really bad moments in his series.  I cannot say the same for Jordan.  He might have missed a time or two on this or that, but not like Goodkind.  Goodkind tanked often with certain storylines.

[Talmanes]

OMG! I'm watching The Legend of The Seeker and apparently Goodkind copied Tinkers too! There is this group of people who won't do any harm to anyone even in defense of their life and then one of them gets tired of watching his people die and decides to learn how to fight! Sound familiar?!?

[Eht Slat Meit]

OMG! I'm watching The Legend of The Seeker and apparently Goodkind copied Tinkers too! There is this group of people who won't do any harm to anyone even in defense of their life and then one of them gets tired of watching his people die and decides to learn how to fight! Sound familiar?!?

 

Well, no, actually. I see the reference, but Aram didn't do it out of some sense of righteousness like Perrin wanted them to, he did it because he was stark, raving nutters.

[Anoxanmore]

Aram wasn't insane until Masema got a hold of him.  He was just very very very depressed.

 

I mean watching your entire family die in front of you to Trollocs... would be distressing.

[NetSlider]

I think Aram had a very good potential to become a good warrior and put his anger and depression behind. But I think Perrin really failed him. Perrin was the one who should have taken him under his wing and make sure he comes out ok. In the lease he should have Tam take charge of Aram more. Anyway, just a personal opinion, but I think Perrin has a very good right to feel guilty about Aram (besides other things, for god sake, Feil is only one person and yet he is ready to throw the whole world to fire for that woman. Very selfish). All in all, I think Aram is a really true tragedy in the series that I can relate to (besides the opening pages when LTT realized that he killed every one he loved).

[Murphy3]

I just don't believe that Aram was salvageable (sp?)... at least not by Perrin.  His anger ruled his life.  When you're a leader, you don't always have time to be someone's therapist AND keep up with the duties that you are bound to. 

[Anoxanmore]

AND to tie the whole TG and RJ world together, Perrin's anger at her capture rings exactly like Richard, except Richard died for her and more, and with less reason. Yet magically saved the world... sorry some of TG's books irk me.

[Red Hand Man]

Of all of the preaching TG did, Book 6 is the only one I somewhat agree with.  It, of course, involved the rinse-repeat theme Luckers expounded upon:

 

Plot: Rand Terry Goodkind Richard gets sperated from Super Hot Babe Who Looks At Him With Adoration Kahlan. He then seeks her out, preaching at Straw Dolls some highly enlightened individuals, including, but not limited to, a child with utter tripe well thought out arguments. This goes on until they fall at his feet in awe of Terry Goodkind's brilliance come to see the truth of Richard's arguments, and Richard is reunited with Kahlan.

 

Rinse and repeat as needed every single frickan time!

 

Though really, can anyone say that RJ was the best?  If you do I'll disown this site.

 

Edit:

By best, I don't mean best of the two.

[Red Hand Man]

However, I must also say that his series had some phenomenal moments.  I cannot remember all of the characters names, but when Richard was basically kidnapped or whatever and taken deep into the enemies territory where he worked as a stone worker and did some elaborate carvings.  That was a very enjoyable storyline.

 

You are referring to Book 6, I believe.  The only one that he didn't preach murder and killing (exclusively). 

[Anoxanmore]

Of all of the preaching TG did, Book 6 is the only one I somewhat agree with.  It, of course, involved the rinse-repeat theme Luckers expounded upon:

 

Plot: Rand Terry Goodkind Richard gets sperated from Super Hot Babe Who Looks At Him With Adoration Kahlan. He then seeks her out, preaching at Straw Dolls some highly enlightened individuals, including, but not limited to, a child with utter tripe well thought out arguments. This goes on until they fall at his feet in awe of Terry Goodkind's brilliance come to see the truth of Richard's arguments, and Richard is reunited with Kahlan.

 

Rinse and repeat as needed every single frickan time!

 

Though really, can anyone say that RJ was the best?  If you do I'll disown this site.

 

Edit:

By best, I don't mean best of the two.

 

Who is the second, because I've yet to read anyone who can equal RJ... kind of like LTT. :P

 

If you say George RR Martin, you need to be doused water till you wake up. :P (Yes that is my opinion).

[OptimusPrime]

Rand: This isnt a mirror! Callandor looks different! Wait...

 

Richard: I've waited for this moment for many books.

 

Rand: You! I know you, imposter! You strive to be like me, but you are not!

 

Richard: I am what I am, I was made this way. I am your replacement. An improvement, I might add.

 

Rand: Improvement? You are nothing!

 

Richard: My swords better than yours, though.

 

Rand: At least Im still me without it. Sword of Truth? That glorified name means nothing. There is no truth in it, only the truth you believe, which is a rip off of the Three Oaths.

 

Richard: Mine wont send me crazy.

 

Rand: Crazy? CRAZY? You know nothing! You are nothing, you lack substance, for you are a hollow image of myself. Cut that hair, you look like me too much! Here, I'll cut your eyes out so you cant give people my look. That way you will only see yourself, for you are NOTHING!

 

Kahlan: Richard, I will never betray you...

 

Richard: Oh my Big Bang Theory Kahlan do you speak of anything else? I'd almost go as far as saying you're Terrys version of Perrin! If I didnt know any better I would unleash chainfire on you, and we all know how original that one is!

 

Rage. That was all Rand could feel. Original? He could tolerate the references to Perrin, the Oaths, the Black Ajah, even the rip off of Callandor. But chainfire, being the original balefire? He would not stand for this! With thoughts of retribution and recovering his identity, he wove balefire and burnt Richard and Kahlan out of existence.

 

[Reyoru]

Hooooooray! ;)