Who is the man in the black coat in Book 7 A Crown of Swords?

[Bob T Dwarf]

The kill/do not kill order has flip-flopped a number of times, beginning in The Eye of the World.

[HighLordXanthus]

Lets not forget to mention about the link formed between the two.  Rand with his worstening double vision when embrasing the source, and the view of the man becoming more and more clear.  Rand in KoD at the manor house viewing the man in his head, then the trollic hords showing up.  This may not directly point to him being Moridin/Ishy but it MOST definitally says it is not Rands father, some other good dooer, the creator taking a hand, or any other positive option.  So that leaves big baddies.  Yes in theory it could be some nameless dreadlord, but the balefire thing DOES clarify a bit.  Because rand could not see the weaving or sense saidin in the man it has to be the True Power (unless you credit some unknown weave the hide him channelling and that the weave was inverted, very unlikely).  Another "giant arrow in the sky" pointing to Moridin/Ishy is that he was well known for using the TP almost exclusively, and all other forsaken that have commented on the TP say they avoid using it at ALL costs except for the greatest of emergencys (except even THAT honor is now held only for the Na'blis). 

 

One other thing, and I may be mistaken on this, but didnt Mr. Black Coat even comment that he will not always be there to help, and to indeed say something about matters maybe changing latter.  Perhaps someone else knows more about this, it has beena number of years for me since I read that bit.

[Mr. Micawber]

The kill/do not kill order has flip-flopped a number of times, beginning in The Eye of the World.

 

I'd say that Elan Morin or perhaps the Big Guy doesn't want any one to steal his kill in this game of Dungeons and the Dragon.

[Mr Ares]

Give reasons for your disagreement.

Frequently not worth the effort.

 

If time travel becomes possible at one time, I think it would become possible for all times.

I thought you were dead, Douglas Adams!

 

The order's wording was 'Let the Lord of Chaos rule';

That was part of the orders, not the whole. Spreading chaos and not killing Rand were both ordered.

[Blackhoof]

Give reasons for your disagreement.

Frequently not worth the effort.

 

How remarkebly arrogant.  :P

[Mr Ares]

Give reasons for your disagreement.

Frequently not worth the effort.

How remarkebly arrogant.  :P

But true. People don't always care, so it might be simpler just to say no and see if they want a reason that t type out a long post which they don't read any more of than no.

[Agitel]

Graendal specifically thinks in the sixth book about the Dark One's order that Rand al'Thor not be killed. She didn't like that order, but she wasn't going to move against it, so she tried to aim Sammael at al'Thor so he'd take the fall for doing it. This was in place before Knife of Dreams.

 

Shadar Haran and Moridin in the seventh book specifically mention spreading chaos.

 

More than likely we need to think about this as the game of sha'rah as described in PoD in a chapter about Moridin.

 

SPOILERS FOR THE INTRO TO PATH OF DAGGERS

 

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"The Fisher held his attention, baiting him. Several pieces had varying moves, but only the Fisher's attributes altered according to where it stood; on a white square, weak in attack yet agile and far-ranging in escape; on black, strong in attack but slow and vulnerable. When masters played, the Fisher changed sides many times before the end. The green-and-red goal-row that surrounded the playing surface could be threatened by any piece, but only the Fisher could move onto it. Not that he was safe, even there; the Fisher was never safe. When the Fisher was yours, you tried to move him to a square of your color behind the opponent's end of the board. That was victory, the easiest way, but not the only one. When your opponent held the Fisher, you attempted to leave him no choice for the Fisher but to move onto your color. Anywhere at all along the goal-row would do; holding the Fisher could be more dangerous than not. Of course, there was a third path to victory in sha'rah, if you took it before letting yourself be trapped. The game always degenerated in a bloody melee, then victory coming only with complete annihilation of your enemy."

 

The Fisher, is Rand al'Thor, or at least, in my view, a previous reincarnation of him prior to the Age of Legends, a forgotten story, but the game has survived. Anyway, Rand al'Thor may be the champion of Light, but Ishamael theoried that this champion had fallen to the Shadow before, that he had played for the Shadow rather than the light. If this is true, then the Light was still victorious.

 

Oh, victory is easier with control of the Fisher/Dragon, which is why he's being kept in play by the Dark Lord. Even if he sides with the Light, the Shadow can still try to force his moves for the Shadow. And he, in general, is not necessary for victory on either side (though this book seems to make things seem more desperate for the Light in this particular cycle of the wheel). If Rand al'Thor would fall, all this turmoil he's creating may go away. He's drawn the Borderlanders south, for one, no small thing. Everyone's focused on him, not the Blight. And also, he's pretty much all that stands away from the Seanchan sweeping across the continent and uniting the Randland, and I'm sure a united world is the last thing the Dark One wants when he's breaking free.

 

There's enough reasons to keep him alive.

[sheikh chilli]

the moment the shadow lost the final battle.

 

the needless death of sammy by moridin really pissed me off. shaitan n moridin can rot!

[crazyfool]

And also, he's pretty much all that stands away from the Seanchan sweeping across the continent and uniting the Randland, and I'm sure a united world is the last thing the Dark One wants when he's breaking free.

 

There's enough reasons to keep him alive.

 

I'm pretty sure he's necessary for winning TG. Because in tGH when Rand and Company use the portal stone he experiences many lives. In one of these lives the Seanchan unite all of Randland and yet when the DO breaks free they(Seanchan) are driven back and defeated.

[Agitel]

And also, he's pretty much all that stands away from the Seanchan sweeping across the continent and uniting the Randland, and I'm sure a united world is the last thing the Dark One wants when he's breaking free.

 

There's enough reasons to keep him alive.

 

I'm pretty sure he's necessary for winning TG. Because in tGH when Rand and Company use the portal stone he experiences many lives. In one of these lives the Seanchan unite all of Randland and yet when the DO breaks free they(Seanchan) are driven back and defeated.

 

The Dark One doesn't know it for sure, I don't believe he can read every path the pattern can take. As I said, this particular turning of the wheel seems far more desperate than it may usually be, so much so that the wheel created two new taveren to help Rand. Min has certainly seen that they and Rand are necessary, at least this time around. Perhaps this has something to do with Ishamael not being bound. Look at the world prior to this age. It nearly united, but Ishamael claims to have organized the Trolloc Wars, and the pattern was unable to do that. Artur Hawkwing nearly united most of the world (in fact, I believe the Wheel wove him out for that very purpose), but again, Ishamael (if we assume he's truthful on this) saw to it that Hawkwing refused Aes Sedai help and died, and then the Amyrillin who may have held everything together also mysteriously died in a horse accident, and the world plunged into war. The Ages come and go and come again, but they're never exactly the same. This may have been something new, and this turning far more desperate than any other. Rand may be necessary this time around.

 

I'm just saying that it seems that it hasn't always been the case, what with what Ishamael told Sammael about the Dragon having bowed to the Dark One before and the Dark One greatly desiring this so much, in addition to the game of sha'rah seeming to reference the previous telling of the Third Age prior to the Age of Legends.

[mb]

If time travel becomes possible at one time, I think it would become possible for all times.

I thought you were dead, Douglas Adams!

His Hitchhiker's Guide series was in my mind when I made the comment.

 

[jsbrads]

Reread that bit and I'm even more sure the wanderer is a good guy, his humor and attitude do match moridin

[Crael123]

its moridin confirmed in book 12