A MEMORY OF LIGHT Volume I Cover Art and Title (Apparently) Confirmed

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Shelf space is an issue in small bookshops, agreed, but any decent-sized store will carry the full range of all 11 WoT books (maybe not NS or the guide though) as they are well-known and a marketable brand. I've seen booksellers directing grown-up Harry Potter fans onto WoT for something similar, for example.

 

You obviously have never heard about the demands that booksellers like Barnes & Noble, Waldenbooks, etc. make on publishers. Also note that the Booksellers were also told that there would be a WOT book out in November 2009, failing to meet that date would have serious repurcussions on TOR who are a going concern with many books that they want sold in bookstores.

I have never seen a bookstore with all 11 books present. And I've looked.

 

I'm currently trying to get all 11 books in the UK covers.

 

Amazon? No. Barnes and Noble? No. Waterstones? No. HMV or Virgin? No. Online on any of those sites? No.

 

Space is a major issue. When a series runs and runs like WoT ... of course some books are going to get cut from the shelf.

[Tyrell]

Thin Inn Keeper, go to the Amazon.co.uk, they are all in stock. I can have them delivered to my house by wednesday if I order them within the next 6 hours.

 

And my local Boarders has a few copies of each on the shelf, as does my local Waterstones and my local WHSmiths, even my local snobby Blackwells had a few copies on the shelf as I recall (I don't go in there often).

 

Now earlier I was quoting the number 30 million for RJ's worldwide sales, as used in the Tor press release, but it's listed as 44 million Here which is for those of you who follow the condescending 250*3=750 school of mathematics more than 30million (In fairness the press release did say more than 30 million, but they could have said moe than 40 million, if that website is correct).

[Charlz Guybon]

Shelf space is an issue in small bookshops, agreed, but any decent-sized store will carry the full range of all 11 WoT books (maybe not NS or the guide though) as they are well-known and a marketable brand. I've seen booksellers directing grown-up Harry Potter fans onto WoT for something similar, for example.

 

You obviously have never heard about the demands that booksellers like Barnes & Noble, Waldenbooks, etc. make on publishers. Also note that the Booksellers were also told that there would be a WOT book out in November 2009, failing to meet that date would have serious repurcussions on TOR who are a going concern with many books that they want sold in bookstores.

I have never seen a bookstore with all 11 books present. And I've looked.

 

I'm currently trying to get all 11 books in the UK covers.

 

Amazon? No. Barnes and Noble? No. Waterstones? No. HMV or Virgin? No. Online on any of those sites? No.

 

Space is a major issue. When a series runs and runs like WoT ... of course some books are going to get cut from the shelf.

 

Most chain bookstores I've been to have all 11 in paperback at least.

[Charlz Guybon]

Thin Inn Keeper, go to the Amazon.co.uk, they are all in stock. I can have them delivered to my house by wednesday if I order them within the next 6 hours.

 

And my local Boarders has a few copies of each on the shelf, as does my local Waterstones and my local WHSmiths, even my local snobby Blackwells had a few copies on the shelf as I recall (I don't go in there often).

 

Now earlier I was quoting the number 30 million for RJ's worldwide sales, as used in the Tor press release, but it's listed as 44 million Here which is for those of you who follow the condescending 250*3=750 school of mathematics more than 30million (In fairness the press release did say more than 30 million, but they could have said moe than 40 million, if that website is correct).

I believe it breaks down as 14 million sales in North America and another 30 million worldwide, but I could be mistaken.

[Werthead]

Did you actually read all of Brandon Sanderson's blog entry? He specifically said that he is not padding the story but that it will actually take that length to include all the material that is necessary to pay justice to RJ's work. Are you calling him a liar.

 

No, but obviously you didn't. He expects the full text to be 800,000 words. Splitting off The Gathering Storm made for a 275,000-word book but he had to add another 25,000 words to turn it into a stand-alone volume. Repeat that for the other two and you now have 875,000 words. If the book hadn't been split in three but kept to the two already planned (and Brandon had already said he'd been writing with two volumes in mind) that extra material would not be needed.

 

Actually AMOL has been slated to be pulished in November 2009 for over a year. It would thus be more fair to say that in part the decision to publish a book by that date was made to satisfy fans who were led to belive that AMOL would be published by that date.

 

And Brandon had previously said he was unhappy with that date being put up so early (by Orbit rather than Tor, but I see no reason why it wouldn't be the same once Tor put up their date). Personally, I would have been happy to wait another six months for the first of two volumes which appears to have been the alternate and superior option.

 

Note that the same story is being stretched across three volumes, not that the story is now too big for two volumes. You're paying 33% extra on the price purely for the benefit of having the book in your hands six months earlier. Fair enough a lot of WoT fans are probably happy to do that (the same ones who paid $5 for a prologue chapter ten years ago), but I suspect the majority would be prepared to wait.

 

You obviously have never heard about the demands that booksellers like Barnes & Noble, Waldenbooks, etc. make on publishers. Also note that the Booksellers were also told that there would be a WOT book out in November 2009, failing to meet that date would have serious repurcussions on TOR who are a going concern with many books that they want sold in bookstores.

 

Publishing deadlines are missed all the time and are part and parcel of the business, and a six month delay is nothing (try three years for GRRM's latest book, or five for Dan Brown's new one). Booksellers' demands also tend to be less convincing when the publisher is dangling a guaranteed bestseller in front of them. Finally, if this excuse about shelf space was true, then Tor would no longer be publishing Steven Erikson's books as they would be uneconomical, and no longer printing back-stock of Jordan, Erikson and Goodkind's previously-published work for being uneconomical. This is clearly not the case, so Tor's argument does not hold water.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I have to say, the Malazan series is a tough argument against the publishing issues raised, aside from being a fine piece of literature.  Still, I'm more than inclined to give Tor the benefit of the doubt here.  Even if it turns out that it is nothing more than a blatant marketing ploy to try to offset a bad economic turn, well, they ARE a business after all.  My God, a business trying to turn a profit.  Monsters.  No bailout for them!  Oh wait ... if they're turning a profit ...

 

Nobody is holding a gun to my head saying "Buy 'The Gathering Storm'".

 

I do think that it is possible that the escalating word count is not a direct outgrowth of the decision to split.  It COULD be, and I understand your argument, Werthead, but Brandon's word count estimates have been steadily increasing throughout the process.  It may be a case of the oft quoted phrase, "The story grew in the telling of it".  Perhaps a million or so words was this section's destiny from the moment that RJ died.

 

I just think the outrage is overblown here, guys.

[Graendals favourite]

I just think the outrage is overblown here, guys.

Exactly.

 

First off a business must make a profit or there is no business. I for one would seriously frown at someone making dubious business decisions because "everything will surely work out anyway," because it often enough doesn't. And it isn't only about delivering books to the fans, (who if anyone should care mostly about what is written and not the peripheral things such as bindings and covers), it is also about getting the books out to new customers as well: the series is ending, now is a very good time for a lot of people to start reading them, from the beginning or from where it left off-- people must notice the books, and for that you must create initial sales volumes and market momentum. An author who writes books to be published must intend them to get read, and I for one hope the WoT continues to grow in scale. So a firm hand at the management is needed. I must say that in my opinion people who would do business but do not care about profits will likely not stay in business long and thus will not achieve all that much, and no one can afford to work for free, for long anyway.

 

I too thought, and I thought BS said or implied as much, that he is not adding anything new to AMoLtGS that would not be in AMoL anyway, but he added parts he would otherswise have postponed until later in the book. Makes sense to have partial closure, even though he says he is still writing AMoL as one book, which I take to mean that while the independent parts "happen to have" partial close, the book is still like a full book snapped in three with just the edges smoothed out.

 

Anyway, I think its too early to say if the estimate of over 800 000 words stays. Perhaps, since BS seemed to underestimate the length the same as RJ admittingly always did for every book, )he did say for this I got in half of the story, for that two thirds), it is in the stories nature to seem like it can be written more quickly than it can. There is a lot of complexity, you cannot just force things to happen because of the myriads of details that need to be fitted right, and the plotlines can seem more staightforward on paper when they haven't been fleshed out. It is some of the strengths of the WoT that makes for the length, and you can't be cutting out your strengths. It is not like anyone would want to find out the resolutions of the plotlines without the intricacy of writing we've had thusfar. I want the end, but I want it to come in a WoTish way, and the WoTish way with all the description and attention to detail and everything just happening to fall in to place as of its own accord, I presume this eats pages.

[Gentled Ben]

I have to say, the Malazan series is a tough argument against the publishing issues raised, aside from being a fine piece of literature.  Still, I'm more than inclined to give Tor the benefit of the doubt here.  Even if it turns out that it is nothing more than a blatant marketing ploy to try to offset a bad economic turn, well, they ARE a business after all.  My God, a business trying to turn a profit.  Monsters.  No bailout for them!  Oh wait ... if they're turning a profit ...

 

Nobody is holding a gun to my head saying "Buy 'The Gathering Storm'".

 

I do think that it is possible that the escalating word count is not a direct outgrowth of the decision to split.  It COULD be, and I understand your argument, Werthead, but Brandon's word count estimates have been steadily increasing throughout the process.  It may be a case of the oft quoted phrase, "The story grew in the telling of it".  Perhaps a million or so words was this section's destiny from the moment that RJ died.

 

I just think the outrage is overblown here, guys.

I actually do not have a problem with that; I have a problem with them being deceptive about that. There's no reason to come up with bogus arguments like shelf space when it's clearly more about money. Just freakin' say so. Say it. Say, "This is our last chance to get what we can out of WOT and we're publishing this with an eye to our bottom line in these tough economic times. Thanks for understanding, and as a nod to fan loyalty, we will be releasing the first installment this November," or any variation thereof, but they will not. They won't say it, and that's why I am considering not buying it (from them).

 

Cubarey pointed out in a different thread that decisions like mine deprive Harriet and Brandon of money. They can say it too. Harriet can say, "Please buy the books because I need the money," but she didn't. Instead, she gave us Math for Dummies. I feel like I'm getting smoke and mirrors when I can clearly see the man behind the curtain. It's my money, and I do not owe it to them. If they want it, they can ask me honestly for it.

 

Sorry for ranting on your post, RAW. You are the only one so far to say that you think I'm being silly, but that I have that right. I feel like the others are trying to deny me the right.  :-\

[RobertAlexWillis]

Just freakin' say so. Say it. Say, "This is our last chance to get what we can out of WOT and we're publishing this with an eye to our bottom line in these tough economic times. Thanks for understanding, and as a nod to fan loyalty, we will be releasing the first installment this November," or any variation thereof, but they will not. They won't say it, and that's why I am considering not buying it (from them).

 

It is an unfortunate fact that honesty does not actually pay in politics or business.  If Tor had released that, or anything like it, you and I and a few other thoughtful people would have understood, chuckled a little, and moved on.  But the majority would have been even more offended.  Their decision to not be up-front about their motives (assuming that they did have purely pecuniary motives) is as much as business decision as the split.

 

Harriet can say, "Please buy the books because I need the money," but she didn't. Instead, she gave us Math for Dummies.

 

I do think that one isn't entirely fair.  She was trying to boil a complex editorial decision down to three lines, and it didn't come out very well.  We live in a sound-byte world, and I think that is one of the causes of much miscommunication.  I honestly don't believe that the difference in the amount of money they will receive was a motivating factor for either of them, personally.  Maybe I'm naive ...

 

Sorry for ranting on your post, RAW. You are the only one so far to say that you think I'm being silly, but that I have that right. I feel like the others are trying to deny me the right.

 

Rant away, me boyo.  One of the wonderful things about being RAW is that I can take it!  ;)  And anyone who tells you that you don't have a right to be silly is being silly, so laugh at them.  Just not while eating hot wings.

[Majsju]

Brandon just confirmed on his blog that the cover was indeed a mock-up. The real cover will be similar, but less horrible (Rand not dancing like a fool, for example).

 

Also, the book is finished, and sent to Harriet. Of course there will be need for some more revisions and editing, but the writing part is done.

[Mr Ares]

I actually do not have a problem with that; I have a problem with them being deceptive about that. There's no reason to come up with bogus arguments like shelf space when it's clearly more about money. Just freakin' say so. Say it. Say, "This is our last chance to get what we can out of WOT and we're publishing this with an eye to our bottom line in these tough economic times. Thanks for understanding, and as a nod to fan loyalty, we will be releasing the first installment this November," or any variation thereof, but they will not. They won't say it, and that's why I am considering not buying it (from them).

Well, such honesty would likely be counterproductive, and lose them sales. On the other hand, they could have handled this much better than they actually did. For example, mention the increasing estimated wordcounts, and that it would likely still end up too big to reasonably be three books, and that natural breaks in the story occured at roughly one and two third intervals throughout the book, and that they would be editing this to make it into a standalone book, rather than just abruptly cutting out midway through various arcs. There are fairly decent reasons to go with a three way split, they didn't push those reasons. They deserve a measure of flack for that, if nothing else. They won't please everyone, particularly those dead set on a book large enough to beat sense into Goodkind fans, but they could have done a far better job of making this palatable, rather than just leaving that to Sanderson. As to your decision to refuse Tor your money, good for you.

[Gentled Ben]

You're right. I would like it better if they were honest, but most probably would not, so it wouldn't make good business sense for them to take that approach, but they could have handled it better, as you suggest.

[Ashaman Kovan]

I still like "Illumination in Shadow" for the title.  ;D Or "Shadows Illuminated"

[Matrim DeLaneous]

Brandon just confirmed on his blog that the cover was indeed a mock-up. The real cover will be similar, but less horrible (Rand not dancing like a fool, for example).

 

Also, the book is finished, and sent to Harriet. Of course there will be need for some more revisions and editing, but the writing part is done.

 

So, based on the gawdawful sketch, it's fair to assume that Rand will be meeting up with Avienda.  Tarabon / Arad Doman?  Wonder if he'll bring in Ituralde (sp).  A very interesting character who we know too little about.

 

Lastly, what's up with the dragon headed wooden structure in the background? 

[CUBAREY]

For example, mention the increasing estimated wordcounts, and that it would likely still end up too big to reasonably be three books, and that natural breaks in the story occured at roughly one and two third intervals throughout the book, and that they would be editing this to make it into a standalone book, rather than just abruptly cutting out midway through various arcs. There are fairly decent reasons to go with a three way split, they didn't push those reasons. They deserve a measure of flack for that, if nothing else. They won't please everyone, particularly those dead set on a book large enough to beat sense into Goodkind fans, but they could have done a far better job of making this palatable, rather than just leaving that to Sanderson.

 

While I do not believe that there decision was primarily based on their desire to maximize profits I do agree with you that their explaination was at best inadequate. I think part of it was that they were trying to give bite size reasons that could fit in a press release. However, they would have much better served if they had simply asked Brandon Sanderson to describe the reasons for the split (which he in fact did in his blog) and hand that out.

 

However, the fact remains that whatever way they would have decided to go and however they explained it would have disappointed some people no matter how hard TOR and Harriet tried to explain their decision.

 

As an aside Amazon lists the Hardcover version of The Gathering Storm at $29.99 and lists the word count at 688. Presuming that is correct and based on Brandon Sanderson's statement that the first volume would be just around 300k words we can estimante that the total final page count (based on an estimate of a final word count of somewhere between 800k+ to 900k)will be somewhere between 1700 and 2100 pages.

[mnwhiterose]

I don't know about you guys, but I have faith in Brandon. While I haven't read his other books, he wants to do justice to RJ and the world he created.  I for one would not like to read a book that merely cleans up storylines in short paragraphs, ie "So-and-so killed Asmo" and in the following paragraph "Demandred is this nameless character".  I want the story.  I want to be able to quick-read the book for the relevant storylines I want concluded, then to go back and slowly read the entire book and appreciate the artistry that comes with writing.  If it takes 3 volumes, or even 10, released in 12 month intervals, I just want the book to be completed.  Now, I feel this last book (volumes) will clean up storylines and bring us to TG, not create new ones.  If Brandon were creating new storylines to flesh out the book, I might have a problem, but I do not think that he would do that.

[Charlz Guybon]

 

 

No, but obviously you didn't. He expects the full text to be 800,000 words. Splitting off The Gathering Storm made for a 275,000-word book but he had to add another 25,000 words to turn it into a stand-alone volume. Repeat that for the other two and you now have 875,000 words. If the book hadn't been split in three but kept to the two already planned (and Brandon had already said he'd been writing with two volumes in mind) that extra material would not be needed.

 

 

You're wrong, you didn't read closely enough.

They'd hoped I'd find them a cutting point at the 225k mark. But I didn't feel good about any cuts earlier than 275. In fact, I later took that 275,000 word book and I added an extra 25k in scenes (one's I'd been planning to write anyway, but decided would work better here in this chunk) in order to fill it out and make of it the most solid novel possible.

 

He took that 25k from the overall total of 800k and simply moved it up.

If AMOL ends up 875k it will have nothing to do with that.

[Mr Ares]

I think part of it was that they were trying to give bite size reasons that could fit in a press release. However, they would have much better served if they had simply asked Brandon Sanderson to describe the reasons for the split (which he in fact did in his blog) and hand that out.

Or put more effort into the press release and interview.

 

However, the fact remains that whatever way they would have decided to go and however they explained it would have disappointed some people no matter how hard TOR and Harriet tried to explain their decision.

In other words, some people will never be satisfied, so why even bother telling them why we do stuff. If they want to offer explanations, make them good. They could leave the greater detail to BS, but their explanations were inadequate, and they could have been better.

[CUBAREY]

I think part of it was that they were trying to give bite size reasons that could fit in a press release. However, they would have much better served if they had simply asked Brandon Sanderson to describe the reasons for the split (which he in fact did in his blog) and hand that out.

Or put more effort into the press release and interview.

 

However, the fact remains that whatever way they would have decided to go and however they explained it would have disappointed some people no matter how hard TOR and Harriet tried to explain their decision.

In other words, some people will never be satisfied, so why even bother telling them why we do stuff. If they want to offer explanations, make them good. They could leave the greater detail to BS, but their explanations were inadequate, and they could have been better.

 

1. I already said that their press release was inadequate.

 

2. That their press release was inadequate is self-evident. However, your inability to view the matter objectively is also obvious. They tried to explain the reasons for their decisions, their efforts where inadequate. However, even if they would have simply released Sanderson's blog post you would still be unsatisfied with the decision itslef. Like I said they could have done better but whatever they did and however they explained it would have ruffled the feathers of some readers.

[Mr Ares]

However, even if they would have simply released Sanderson's blog post you would still be unsatisfied with the decision itslef. Like I said they could have done better but whatever they did and however they explained it would have ruffled the feathers of some readers.

Which misses the point. Just because some people will always be dissatisfied no matter what you say, doesn't mean you shouldn't bother trying to give a decent explanation.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

Most of the time anyway...

 

*I'm not taking any sides here*

[CUBAREY]

However, even if they would have simply released Sanderson's blog post you would still be unsatisfied with the decision itslef. Like I said they could have done better but whatever they did and however they explained it would have ruffled the feathers of some readers.

Which misses the point. Just because some people will always be dissatisfied no matter what you say, doesn't mean you shouldn't bother trying to give a decent explanation.

 

As I stated they should have done a better job of explaining their decisions. However, it seems you and others would still be dissatisfied because what you really object to is the decision itself.

[Mr Ares]

As I stated they should have done a better job of explaining their decisions. However, it seems you and others would still be dissatisfied because what you really object to is the decision itself.

I object to both.

[Vambram]

I wonder if those whom object to the decision to split AMOL into three books will have the courage of their convictions to wait until 2011.. or later, for the potential Omnibus edition of the final 3 books to be published and released before they buy or even read any of these final 3 books?

[Beli Tsar]

Why are these artists even allowed to do the cover art? I understand that most books in the fantasy genre have these goofy covers that makes it hard to take any of the books serious until you actually read them (I fought my friend's urging to read WoT for a while based off the covers alone), but surely they could do better.

 

For Tarmon Gaidon I have this image in my head of Shayol Ghul in the backdrop with that striated pitchblack & red lightning sky with thousands of indistinct soldiers and trollocs battling it out while in the foreground is a larger clearer image of rand surrounded by a halo and channeling destruction. And before anyone says its impossible, why just think of some of those older paintings of roman battles with cities burning in the backdrop that you sometimes see as the cover of various books.

 

Very do-able, and would have a FAR more powerful impact on the reader before the book is even open. Or we can just have another cover that makes us feel like we're about to step into the land of the Labyrinth...