Do You Believe In The Existence Of Magic?

[Jelly]

Well, I've believed in magic as long as I can remember. When I was younger, it was simply because of fairytales and all that, then when I was a bit older I loved (still do) reading fantasy books, and I of course still believed. Now, I strongly believe it is real. Nothing can convince me it isn't.

Why?

Well, it's in lots of myths/legends. It is also mentioned in holy..scriptures?..such as the bible..and some others, of which I cannot remember the names. A few centuries ago, or so, they believed in witches. Ok, they didn't like them, and killed them for it, but they still believed it. And yes, we do know that they believed things to do with science were magic, as they seemed impossible.

I think that if it's mentioned in such old things, then the belief has to have originated somewhere. Surely someone cannot have just made the concept up, and this all happened?

Also, there's no proof of it not being real. It may have been used, who knows? As the saying goes: "If a tree falls down in a forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?". Of course. 

 

So, I believe in magic.

What do you believe?

[Shendare]

1) Do I believe in natural laws being broken because someone spoke, wrote, gestured, or drew special words or symbols? No.

 

2) Do I believe objects can be imbued with the ability to break natural laws? No.

 

3) Do I believe in spiritual beings or a spiritual world beyond the physical world we can see? Sure, I think it would be silly to deny the possibility.

 

4) Do I believe that the historical view of magic was the best explanation people could determine for complex phenomena they could not understand or explain (such as chemistry, astronomy, biology, meteorology, physics, consciousness, agriculture, and coincidence)? Absolutely.

 

5) Do I believe in "magic" as a positive, inspired, wondrous, pleasant, creative feeling one can experience throughout their lives but sadly so rarely do? You bet!

 

[Edit: Forgot to put #5 in before I hit Post.]

[Thorum]

Nothing is predictable. There'll always be some random in évery formula (at least in rounding down: you can write pi with as many digits you like, you'll never have it completely right). If you do the right calculations, this can lead to strange results.

 

So, yes, this is magic.

[Dragon21]

I checked no based on my perception of magic.

I think what most would call an act of magic, comes from the spiritual realm of things. I believe in God & Satan, angels & demons.

I think they have more effect on this world than most would think.

At times they can empower people or give them abilities that may be percieved as magic (even by possesing someone). I believe most "magic" comes from the more evil spirits trying to impress people and take focus off of God. A conterfiet of miracles. Though the act itself might not be evil, it is just a distraction from the most powerful spirit...God. Satan wants glory for himself.

Wow, I probably got way off track there. :)

[Besolyn]

Yes, I believe in the magical. Just because something can be explained doesn’t keep it from being magical. Gravity is one of the simplest most everyday forms of “energy” but it still seems very magical to me, and just about every person on this planet takes it for granted. I bet the astronauts don’t. The northern lights can be explained down to every last detail about why which color appears when, but to any person that has ever witnessed it, it will never loose it’s magic.

 

I also have had unexplained magical things happen to and around me. Things that cannot be explained by today’s sciences, but may be by tomorrow’s. Does that mean it’s not magic? I submit an emphatic NO!

[Rufae]

I think there are things that are unexplainable by science, so in that sense there could be magic involved.

[Thunderbomb]

All I can say is Criss Angel...

 

When I seen him floating above the Luxor in Vegas while I was there on vacation, I was beyond amazed and there is no way someone can explain that...between floating 50 feet on top of a very big pyramid+ the massive amounts of heat those lights give off... theres just no way to explain it...phenom/magic/what ever you wanna call it

[Baldar]

Magic or Magick?

 

I practiced ceremonial magick for years and it often works, when you least expect it, several weeks or months later... and usually in ways that you didn't anticipate.

 

It's usually best just to physically work on what you want and not try the shortcuts, you end up paying one way or the other, anyway.

 

However, the robes, head-dresses, and various "props" (wands, swords, chalices, etc.) are fun in a large group, and the incense, tons of incense.

[CUBAREY]

"There are more things in heaven and earth, dear Horatio, then are dreamt of in your philosophy." Enough said.

[loki redfern]

why not.

 

reality is what you make it,  if you have a strong enough force of will you can make anything happen.

 

 

[Alys Kinch]

just interupting to say that i love your sig and avatar, besolyn. :P

[Besolyn]

Thanks, Alys!! Love yours, too! The only thing I asked for last year was the Calvin & Hobbes special edition set  ;)

 

 

reality is what you make it,  if you have a strong enough force of will you can make anything happen.

I couldn’t agree more. Positive and negative energy start within Science surely can’t explain that as humans we can (to a surprising degree) control our health with good/bad thoughts. If you can control something as simple as "I will not get a cold this Winter", who’s to say someone can’t change/affect something beyond their own personal space with the same method?

[Ozhammer]

No. There is no such thing as magic (however you spell it).

There are positive and negative thoughts, there is random chance and luck (both good and bad).

If someone can show me proof of magic, then I will believe. No-one can though so, as a concept, it does not exist besides in the imagination of those who want (or need) to believe in it. Now, Im sure people will say "Ive experienced magic", and Im sure I would be able to counter that with the old "roll with the dice" defence. Sometimes things just happen without explanation.

Just my thoughts, and I dont want to belittle anyones experiences, Im just a cynical bastard!  ;)

[SqueeEGA]

The positive thinking that Besolyn spoke of could be construed as the placebo effect.  Every substances that has an effect on the human brain does so because the human brain produces a chemical identical or very very similar to the substance.  ie endorphins: an opiate endrogenous to the brain.  thanks to endorphins we can get high on heroin, morphine, codine, and a whole variety of other opiates.  psilocybin, that active component in some "magic mushrooms" is almost identical to seritonin.  a study was done with a woman with carpal tunnel.  they put her in an MRI and told her that they were rubbing pain killing gel on her wrist.  it was actually Vasoline, but she didnt know that, and her brain lit up as if morphine was givin to her.  (brain knew pain was to be aliveated so released endorphins to take care of it)  Obviously this isnt as effective as giving her morphine due to strength and duration, but its something.

 

on the topic of magic im going to have to say yes.  when my friend was eight or nine she really wished that the mazzios would burn down, and then about a week later, it did.  I remember when that happened, but never cared since i lived by a pizza hut and they're better anyway.

 

Another friend of mine lived with her dad in Austin TX, in a small house he had since the 70's.  There was a tree in the front yard that he described as "hanging precariously over those power lines.  I should really do something about it."  There was a thunderstorm that night and a bolt of lighting struck the tree and blew it out into the street.  nothing was damaged except for the tree!

 

Call it what you will.

 

String Theory requires at least 7 additional dimensions that we cannot interact with.  The extra dimensions allow the strings to wiggle in a sufficient number of ways resulting in the elementary particles.  With String Theory, Transmutation and Alchemy are possible...that is if we could grab hold of strings and manipulate them through the higher dimensions.  Unfortunately this is not very likely. 

 

Perhaps magic has something to do with manipulating strings.  *shrug*  Perhaps the physical components to the Fireball spell are inert dusts, but are easily manipulated into kerosene or some type of oil, and the energy released in the manipulation is sufficient enough to combust the flameable substance.

 

And just for the record Gravity is not energy.  It is the effect that energy has on space-time.

[Ozhammer]

Call it what you will.

 

Coincidence. You would have to be on an opiate to call it otherwise...

[Tenshin_Xo]

The law of large numbers.

 

In either case, string theory(acutally you are describing is a subset of super symmmetric string theory, specifically the 10D model, as opposed to the 11D and 26D models) is just that theory.    There is 0 empirical evidence derived from so much as a single experiment done here on earth to back it up.  At best you can say that it has internal consistency, and doesn't contradict itself.  Further, the 10D model can compactify into 3 stable forms, 3 expanded dimensions, 7 expanded dimensions, and 9 expanded dimensions.  The 3 dimension result (our apparent universe) is the most stable, and appears to be the most 'interesting' because gravity changes, and 'dilutes' with more dimensions.  But I digress.

 

Honestly, until someone actually perfoms some mundanely impossible task under a controlled environment in front of me or in front of someone I trust I won't believe it.  Sadly such performers as Blaine, Criss Angel, and their like either do not perform under the scrutiny of a 'debunker' or often have their performances recreated using perfectly mundane means.  Most of the people I've come across who claim to be able to perfom magic tell me that my skepticism is throwing off the energy or some such, and that they can't do it for me. 

 

That being said, I don't think we have it all figured out and there are a number of things that happen that we have no understanding of how or why it happened. 

[Besolyn]

That being said, I don't think we have it all figured out and there are a number of things that happen that we have no understanding of how or why it happened. 

Mankind is still so infintile in its undestanding of just about everything that it's not even funny!!

_________________________________________________

 

First off I want to clear up what I call “magic” Magic to me is anything unexplainable or wondrous. Some people have never had the combined joy/fear of encountering something in their life that no matter how many times you try to rationalize and logic it away. The rational and logic pieces just never fit together.

 

Squee, thanks for the correction. Sometimes I get so caught in what I’m trying to say, I use the wrong descriptions.  :-[ Please don’t think me simple, I may be awed by something as “simple” as the effects of gravity, but I do fully understand it. I tend to break down in the communication department when I get excited about something, and if anything excites me, it’s the inner microscopic workings of this awesome universe we live in. :)

 

Oz, I’m sure you’ll come up with your own explanation for this, just as I did ;), but to me neither science nor coincidence can explain away the following personal experiences I’ve had. (Before I start this I want to say, I do not believe myself psychic, from the little I know about it this ranks more with ESP or empathy, which all fall under “magical” for me)

 

Everyone, I’m sure, gets those little warning signals in their head or gut. Not calling that anything out of the ordinary. It’s usually just instinct. However, on three separate occasions, while still in high school, I experienced “warnings”. All three were in real time, that’s why I don’t think of it as psychic (sure doesn’t do me much good to see the lottery numbers AS they’re being drawn, right? :P). All three times I got an EXACT mental picture of a friend of mine with extreme detail of that friend's specific trouble. The closest to me was 30 minutes away at the time of their incident and my warning. The other two were each over 2 hours drive away from me at the time. I could go into great detail about not having any prior knowledge whatsoever to the whereabouts and whatdoings of each of these people at each warning, but I’m not wasting my time defending something I know is real. Even if I don’t know what it was exactly.

 

I’ll also mention here, I am not the first female in my family to get these warnings. Though theirs all seem to be specific dangers (my grandmother=poisonous snakes, my mother=dangerous/deadly traffic possibility, my sister=fire), but no specific person, and with more warning than my real time flashes. Just wanted to lay it out there for anyone interested. :)

[Jelly]

Wow..I wouldn't exactly call that magic, but surely it's something more than instinct.. I've actually had the same sort of things happen to me. It's very strange.

[Besolyn]

Strange.....You ain’t telling me nothing I don’t know, Sweetie. ;)

 

Do you ever just KNOW something with absolutely no evidence to substantiate your claim? I have hunches and guesses, but sometimes I just.......know. Skeptics will call it chance that I pick the right possibility out of a set number of possibilities. I do know the difference, just like you know the difference between choosing what color socks to wear, and KNOWING what color your eyes are. There is no question in your mind and there is equally no debate. It’s the same when I get the “Know Feeling”. Whatever it is that I know WILL BE whatever I felt it would be. Do not mistake this for confidence. I have been totally confident, but without the feeling and been wrong. I’ve never been wrong when I got the feeling. The only way to describe it is one of complete and total calm and whole and undivided sureness that nothing could ever be as true as what I KNOW.

[Ozhammer]

Oz, I’m sure you’ll come up with your own explanation for this, just as I did , but to me neither science nor coincidence can explain away the following personal experiences I’ve had. (Before I start this I want to say, I do not believe myself psychic, from the little I know about it this ranks more with ESP or empathy, which all fall under “magical” for me)

 

And as I said, I certainly do not want to belittle other peoples experiences, cos I havent walked in your shoes mate. Ive had similar things happen to me, but Im under no illusions its just fate or chance or luck. Still, just putting things down to chance is an enigma in itself!

 

[Graendals favourite]

Mere existence itself, if it can be called mere really, is magical. It is at times hard to believe that the world truly exists, thinking if one should turn one's head quickly there would not be anything there after all. I think people can work magic by causing even more unreasonable and inconceivable events and occurrences to happen. It just isn't from this world, what happens out there. Trying to understand it, one can become seriously perplexed, even chronically dumbfounded, but I believe people can train themselves at working their magic on the world.

[BrainFireBob]

Subconscious calculation passed off as "Strange feelings"- the human mind is far more receptive to stimuli than is generally credited, this does not make the result "magic" or proof of magic- labelling it such requires the assumption magic already exists.

[SqueeEGA]

The law of large numbers.

 

In either case, string theory(acutally you are describing is a subset of super symmmetric string theory, specifically the 10D model, as opposed to the 11D and 26D models) is just that theory.    There is 0 empirical evidence derived from so much as a single experiment done here on earth to back it up.  At best you can say that it has internal consistency, and doesn't contradict itself.  Further, the 10D model can compactify into 3 stable forms, 3 expanded dimensions, 7 expanded dimensions, and 9 expanded dimensions.  The 3 dimension result (our apparent universe) is the most stable, and appears to be the most 'interesting' because gravity changes, and 'dilutes' with more dimensions.  But I digress.

 

True.  The most unfortunate circumstance with regards to string theory is the fact that NO experiment can be done to prove or disprove it.  Its more along the lines of philosophical science rather than real science.  But it does make for a super mechanic to be used to explain all kinds of crazyness in a fantasy series.  I intend to do so.  ST pleases me greatly.

 

For me to be a true believer im gonna need to see some silly gestures, hear some crazy words, and then see something get blown to pieces by a huge fireball.  Or to see a giant ethereal fist appear in the sky and crush something. *Bigby's crushing fist*

 

In the words of Dr. Greg House "Magic is cool; real magic is oxymoronic."

[Besolyn]

And as I said, I certainly do not want to belittle other peoples experiences,

I know, I just wanted to poke at you  ;) :P That's what I like about this forum, we're not really trying to convince anyone else, just to argue our own cases :)

 

I've never heard of String Theory *runs off to Google*

 

Edit: I am a firm believer that everything is connected and everything is in balance. Maybe what we sometimes label as magic is “reactor” (effect) reacting to the “actor” (cause) we didn’t know were so closely connected. But I still don't think that makes it any less magical. Did that make any sense?

[Tenshin_Xo]

The law of large numbers.

 

In either case, string theory(acutally you are describing is a subset of super symmmetric string theory, specifically the 10D model, as opposed to the 11D and 26D models) is just that theory.    There is 0 empirical evidence derived from so much as a single experiment done here on earth to back it up.  At best you can say that it has internal consistency, and doesn't contradict itself.  Further, the 10D model can compactify into 3 stable forms, 3 expanded dimensions, 7 expanded dimensions, and 9 expanded dimensions.  The 3 dimension result (our apparent universe) is the most stable, and appears to be the most 'interesting' because gravity changes, and 'dilutes' with more dimensions.  But I digress.

 

True.  The most unfortunate circumstance with regards to string theory is the fact that NO experiment can be done to prove or disprove it.  Its more along the lines of philosophical science rather than real science.  But it does make for a super mechanic to be used to explain all kinds of crazyness in a fantasy series.  I intend to do so.  ST pleases me greatly.

 

For me to be a true believer im gonna need to see some silly gestures, hear some crazy words, and then see something get blown to pieces by a huge fireball.  Or to see a giant ethereal fist appear in the sky and crush something. *Bigby's crushing fist*

 

In the words of Dr. Greg House "Magic is cool; real magic is oxymoronic."

 

We have experiments proposed that may be able to verify string theory, and the upgrades for the Heavy Ion Collider may be able to peer into bosonic string theory. One of the newer upgrades (at CERN i think,) may be ablt to examine supersymmetrical string theory, but we're a couple years out if I'm not mistaken.  I'm more familiar with the math and theoretics than with the design and implimentation of the detectors.  Feel free to PM if have questions, I'll look up the specifics or at the least ask around.  I still think they should have gone for the Texas facility, it would have been very much more powerful AND versitile, not to mention closer to home. ;)