Danelle is Mesaana

[hurryupnwait]

I can go over everything thst point to why at length, but I will try to be brief.  I am sure most if not all of those points have been hashed over and rehashed anyway. So let me just touch on a few.

 

-Danelle was part of the original group that pulled down Suian.  Not only that she brought in the "masons" to pull off the coup, along with being int he group that took Suian  into custody.

 

-Interestingly enough other than Alviarin, Danelle is the only woman from that group to escape Elaida making an example of them early on.  We know that Danelle is not thought to be Black Ajah as we've seen from Alviarin's pov.  Every time she sees a black sister she thinks of them as black. 

 

-Of all that early group of sisters involved in the coup Danelle is the only one to simply lose interest in trying to shape the Towers direction of events.  Even if Danelle is a dreamy Brown what Aes Sedai can resist meddling in anything?  With Alviarin in place she has someone to shape events, and not to mention she escapes the possibility of embarrassing penances that she could not refuse without raising a few eyebrows.

 

-Every time Alviarin leaves Elaida's quarters she almost immediately sees Danelle.  This coincides with Mesaana always knowing what happens in Elaida's rooms.  To make this interesting with the tense atmosphere in the Tower RJ made a point of stating no sister leaves her Ajah areas alone.  It is also stated Elaida's rooms are clear at the top of the Tower isolated from the rest of the sisters.  This would preclude Elaida's room from being near the Browns quarters.  Why is Danelle near there so much?

 

-Danelle is Brown, Alviarin sees that Mesaana frequently wears Bronze embroidered skirts.  As I understand it bronze is a shade of brown.

 

-Finally in RJ's bug white book he describes Mesaana as looking dreamy almost constantly.  Danelle as we know has a similiar disposition. 

 

 

I think that sums it up.  Let me know what you all think.

[professorskar]

Not only that she brought in the "masons" to pull off the coup,

 

Those damn Masons, they're behind every conspiracy, even in The Wheel of Time!

[hurryupnwait]

I also forgot to mention that she was probably chosen because she was a young Aes Sedai with few friends, and introverted enough to be even more solitary a figure than most Browns.  It could not have hurt that she (Danelle) like Mesaana was an introvert to the point of dreaminess.  Similiar personalities little to no friends to potentially mess up with.

 

There I'm really finished now

[krelianzg]

Agreed.

 

She definitely makes the most sense by a long shot out of the possible candidates in the WT.

 

I must say, despite the fact that she screwed herself over (look, a double-entendre!) by skipping out on the Cleansing, she's been doing quite well for herself, especially given how some of the other Forsaken have been messing up left and right.

 

[avacraft]

Not to mention, Mesaana was a teacher and enjoyed teaching, what better ajah than the ajah that is all about knowledge and history and learning.  I mean if she wanted to learn anything in the library then it wouldn't seem weird cuz browns practically live in the library and Danelle might even be one of the librarian sisters.  IDK.  It would be nice to have a POV from Mesaana with her giving some hint to her disguise because that might clear off any possibility of her being Tarna but hey, I think she is definitely Danelle.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Given what we do have from Tarna's POV (KoD ch 25), its pretty clear that Tarna is not Mesaana.  Danelle is indeed by far the most likely candidate.

[avacraft]

Yeah, I forgot that Tarna had a POV and didn't mention any hint of her being Mesaana.  Thx RAW.

[raydurz]

Not to mention, Mesaana was a teacher and enjoyed teaching, what better ajah than the ajah that is all about knowledge and history and learning.  I mean if she wanted to learn anything in the library then it wouldn't seem weird cuz browns practically live in the library and Danelle might even be one of the librarian sisters.  IDK.  It would be nice to have a POV from Mesaana with her giving some hint to her disguise because that might clear off any possibility of her being Tarna but hey, I think she is definitely Danelle.

 

While I agree that Danelle is definitely a good canidate for Mesaana-I dont think Mesaana liked to teach,she wanted to do research instead, but was found "unsuitable"

[MsDanya]

but if Danelle is Mesaana, how come Alviarin didnt recognize her when her mask was broken? Alviarin have seen Danelle many times before. I doubt she would be onle "vagualy familiar". Alviarin is good with faces. she would recognize her immedeatly..

[Nelal Hurcran]

Mesaana cannot go parading arownd as herself. Danelle was already an AS before the forsaken were freed. All Mesaana did take her spot. Otherwise, she would have to compell every last AS, otherwise one might start to wonder where this new AS came from.

[lou]

alvi did recognise messaana, but couldnt quite place her. i thought this would be more likely a staff member than a known AS, specifically one that alvi would see on a regular basis. mog posed as a maid on occasion, noone ever notices the working dogs.

[Gentled Ben]

I think it can be attributed to the loss of the ageless look, along with whatever other minor alterations she's made to her appearance. Mesaana clearly has to use Mask of Mirrors, not only for the reasons that Nelal stated, but to appear as if she'd sworn on the oath rod, too. Removing the ageless look has a surprising effect on one's features--witness the many Aes Sedai who at first don't believe it's Leane who was captured with Egwene, as they don't recognize her without the ageless look.

[RobertAlexWillis]

What he said.

[hurryupnwait]

Also Mesaana would have had to pick Danelle because they look very similiar.  The closer your true look is to what you are disguising yourself with the better it works.  As discovered by Elayne while weaving disguises in Ebou Dar.  It was easier for Nyneave because her features and coloring were closer to Altarans than Elayne's and Aviendha.

[Littel me]

I have another suspeckt.

 

Laras the cook.

 

We know that Mesaana and her to 'compaions' has a sceam where the greates posible fraction of the AS is a integrete part. Laras helpt free siuan and leane(sp?), any inteligent person would know that siuan free would increase the confusion in the AS rank. In Egwene POW i KOD she thinks about Laras looking after her and preventing the rest of the kitcher creew heresing(sp?) her. We know that Mesaana is afriad of the rebelion ending whit Egwene in the Tower.

 

Ofcause Laras could just be a desend humanbeing.  :)

[Otarin]

I thought Laras for a while but have ruled her out.  The way she was cowed by Suian in TDR when Suian is visiting the girls in the kitchens along with her response to Suian setting it right (making Mistress of Kitchen a true title) seems to eliminate her.

 

Also the way she worries about the girls and goes to Suian to say she will not be a part of breaking them doesn't seem like something a forsaken would do. 

 

I think she is exactly what she appears to be.

 

It is curious she shows up so much.  That was what made me suspect her in the first place. I don't have an answer as to why she does.  Maybe she will do something heroic in the last book.  Other servants show up as much or more, so maybe RJ is trying to make a point about the "little people"

[Briwan Dragain]

I probably shouldn't say anything because it's likely wrong, but I thought that Alivarin caught a glimpse of the banded Accepted dress one of the times that she was visited by Mesanna. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

Danelle seems like a smart candidate, though, I'd believe it. =b

[aevogt]

Also, Tarna is Altaran.  The only physical thing that fits is the blue eyes.  Most Altarans are darker skinned.

 

Both Danelle and Mesaana are described as "young looking"

 

Danelle  - She is young and has big, blue eyes

Mesaana  - She appears just short of her middle years and has blue eyes.  She has big blue eyes

 

Most of the glimpses of clothing we had seen through the Mask seem to indicate someone disguised as a Brown.  The clothing colors I remember Alvi seeing are russet (reddish brown) and Bronze (Golden brown).  Also, Mesaana's prefession before she turned to the dark, research, is a finger pointing at the brown.

 

My money's on Danelle.

[lou]

lanfear posed as keile, for goodness sakes. short fat keile. semi posed as anath who, as it turns out is a great deal shorter than semi, and graendal has been posing as an old, ill, domani Lady. i think physical similarities are not very relevant to idenity.

the colors that she chooses to wear may be a far better hint to who she was posing as.

[hurryupnwait]

Semi did not use a disguise except for as the Daughter of the Nine Moons, a person no Seanchan will touch on pain of death.  As Anath she used no disguise.  Graendel only dons the disguise when people who are not under her heavy hand of compulsion.  Even then she probably uses a light form of that on the people she disguises herself for.  Lanfear in disguise was among a bunch of darkfriends posing as darkfriends.  They knew she stood high I'm sure they knew better to approach her let alone touch her. 

 

Mesaana is in the White Tower surrounded by hundreds of Aes Sedai who consider themselves her equal they would have no such compunction.  Read Crown of Swords the closer a diguise is to someone's actual appearance the easier it is to maintain.  In the world of Randland according to RJ (via Elayne,Nyneave,Birgitte, and Aviendha) it is simple fact.

 

Therefore since Mesaana would have to constantly maintain this facade it would only make sense for her to pose as someone physically similiar to herself.

[Lemagrag]

lanfear posed as keile, for goodness sakes. short fat keile. semi posed as anath who, as it turns out is a great deal shorter than semi, and graendal has been posing as an old, ill, domani Lady. i think physical similarities are not very relevant to idenity.

the colors that she chooses to wear may be a far better hint to who she was posing as.

 

Yes, Lanfear poses as Keille. However, she's posing as an unknown merchant in the Aiel Waste for a relatively brief period of time. Mesaana, however, is posing as an Aes Sedai in the White Tower--someone at least vaguely known to others. Moghedien reveals that the Mask of Mirrors is more easily done the less you change about one's physical features. Tjat combined with Alviaran almost recognizing Mesaana when her Mask is shattered by Shaidar Haran, it makes physical similarities quite relevant.

 

While I was already in the Danelle camp before this thread, the original post in this thread convinces me that it's very likely that Danelle is Mesaana.

[hurryupnwait]

Thanks Lemagrag, at the risk of sounding smug it is very gratifying to know that my logic is appreciated.

[lou]

yes, semi posed as tuon, i had just read the passage when cadsuane broke the mask of mirrors on her and she flickered between semi/anath and tuon.but if you are basing your theory on whether or not physical similarities are there, i say that is a weak argument. messaana could literally pose as anybody she chose to, and the "touch" factor is weak also, not even AS touch each other without an invitation. we only see an unsolicited touch when elaida bitch slaps alvi. otherwise i would say that there isnt that much risk at all.

this is not to say that danelle is not messaana, but give something more to base this on than blue eyes.

[hurryupnwait]

I am not expressing an opinion about the being physically similiar to your disguise makes it easier.  It is fact.  Multiple times in the series that notion has been touched on.  By the super girls in Ebou Dar, and By Moggy as she taught the weave.  It is not a point of debate it is what it is. FACT!

[Tigara]

Mesaana was a teacher. During the War of the Shadow, she started schools to teach children and make them turn to the Shadow, later known as Mesaana's children. Thus, Brown fits well.I also recall tht Alvi noticed that Mesaana would always tap her finger against her lips while she thought, and thought she had seen another Sister do that. I believe is was Danelle.

 

When Alvi saw a trace of dress, it was bronze and green. Not an Accepted's dress.

 

Does it say whether Danelle does needlepoint, or is Cairheinin? Mesaana's voice is described to be like chimes, like Cairheinin, and is seen doing needlepoint during one of the Forsaken's meetings.