What's Up With Thom??

[Great Lord of the Dark]

Okay fine then....

 

What is so important about a old gleeman?

Will he save save and/or marry Moiraine?

What does his past have to do with current events?

Will he help with the extermination of the Red Ajah, or at least crush it beneath his foot?

What happened to his son again?

What is his relationship with Moiraine anyway?

 

That good enough for y'all? And Demendred you can post all you want that I'm an idiot but I don't really care. I can give intellegent answers, I just choose not too. So  :P :P

[Tyrell]

He'll probably save ande marry her, yes.

 

His past? He was Morgase's lover, after Taringail's death (which he was responsible for, after he discivered Taringail had a plot against Morgase) untill he ran off to try to help his nephew Owyn, who could channel; Owyn was gentled by the Red Ajah then left to die. Thom returned to the palace and had a row with Morgase, who ordered his execution? exile atleast anyways, I recall a comment about his head being close to the chopping block, suffice to say that he left Caemlyn at speed.

 

Will he help destroy the Red Ajah? Idunno, they're done for now anyway, Logain and Elaida between them saw to that.

 

His son? You mean his nephew, see above.

 

I dunno exactly what his relationship was with Moiraine, if he had one before the beginning of EotW. I believe Moiraine knows she will marry Thom because of a viewing of Min's, though I don't think this has been substantiated.

 

[hurryupnwait]

Let us also not forget that Thom also started the civil war in Cairhien.  He killed the King there for sending asassins after him to find out what Rand was up to.  Those asassins killed Thom's girlfriend.  After dispatching them he went and finished off the King.  This led to the firing of the granaries, which led to the army atacking the rioters, which started the fighting. 

[Majsju]

We do know he is crucial to Moiraines rescue, from Mins viewing and Moiraines letter.

 

It seems very likely they will, maybe not marry, but at least hook up.

People often interpret Moiraine telling the wondergirls that she knows the face of her future husband better than any of them as her saying she knows who she will marry (ie Thom), but we'll see.

[Moiraine_Damodred]

Okay fine then....

 

What is so important about a old gleeman? - Wisdom

Will he save save and/or marry Moiraine? - Save-Yes, Marry-Maybe

What does his past have to do with current events? - Everything, a person's past defines their character

Will he help with the extermination of the Red Ajah, or at least crush it beneath his foot? - Um, no.  The Red Ajah is doomed to crumble by the fact that they won't have to hunt male channelers anymore to keep them from going mad

What happened to his son again? - Owyn, his nephew, was genteled and died

What is his relationship with Moiraine anyway? - nobody really knows

[trakand_01]

Did Thom and Moiraine know each other previous to tEoTW? She was Taringail's younger sister after all...

 

Could it turn out that they were in league, that Thom happening upon Emonds Field at the same time as them was not a coincidence, that he was there specifically to gain the trust of the boys (Nyn and Egwene weren't part of the initial plan) as Moiraine knew neither she nor Lan would be able to build the same sort of relationship with them...? the plan would be that he then would go on to lead them towards their destinations if she failed to gain their trust, or at those times where she was separated from them?

 

I mean lets face it, Thom is quite a prominent gleeman to be touring back-water villages.

 

Here though, my memory fails me somewhat. I remember him being in Emonds Field, but I dont remember him being with them when they were separated at Shadar Logoth... Perrin and Egwene went over the river, Moiraine, Lan and Nynaeve were together... Mat and Rand were separated... did Thom go with them, on a ship? Then they lost him again in the Myrrdraal incident in... Whitebridge?

[ignavus1223]

Let us also not forget that Thom also started the civil war in Cairhien.  He killed the King there for sending asassins after him to find out what Rand was up to.  Those asassins killed Thom's girlfriend.  After dispatching them he went and finished off the King.  This led to the firing of the granaries, which led to the army atacking the rioters, which started the fighting. 

 

If I remember correctly, Thom was going to kill the King, but found out the King was already dead.  The King was torn to pieces, I believe, which sounds like Slayer.

[Artos]

Let us also not forget that Thom also started the civil war in Cairhien.  He killed the King there for sending asassins after him to find out what Rand was up to.  Those asassins killed Thom's girlfriend.  After dispatching them he went and finished off the King.  This led to the firing of the granaries, which led to the army atacking the rioters, which started the fighting. 

 

If I remember correctly, Thom was going to kill the King, but found out the King was already dead.  The King was torn to pieces, I believe, which sounds like Slayer.

 

You sure? I remember Thom saying he did it...

[elmis]

Barthanes Damodred was torn limb from limb in his bedroom, probably for his failure with Rand and Fain. Thom killed King Galldrian after his thugs killed Dena.

 

With both of the most powerful men in Cairhien dead, civil war ensued. :)

[Duneflayer]

Barthanes Damodred was torn limb from limb in his bedroom, probably for his failure with Rand and Fain. Thom killed King Galldrian after his thugs killed Dena.

 

With both of the most powerful men in Cairhien dead, civil war ensued. :)

 

can u give a quote were it says Thom did it because that doesn't ring any bells and i know my WOT pretty well.

[professorskar]

Did Thom and Moiraine know each other previous to tEoTW? She was Taringail's younger sister after all...

 

Could it turn out that they were in league, that Thom happening upon Emonds Field at the same time as them was not a coincidence, that he was there specifically to gain the trust of the boys (Nyn and Egwene weren't part of the initial plan) as Moiraine knew neither she nor Lan would be able to build the same sort of relationship with them...? the plan would be that he then would go on to lead them towards their destinations if she failed to gain their trust, or at those times where she was separated from them?

 

I mean lets face it, Thom is quite a prominent gleeman to be touring back-water villages.

 

Here though, my memory fails me somewhat. I remember him being in Emonds Field, but I dont remember him being with them when they were separated at Shadar Logoth... Perrin and Egwene went over the river, Moiraine, Lan and Nynaeve were together... Mat and Rand were separated... did Thom go with them, on a ship? Then they lost him again in the Myrrdraal incident in... Whitebridge?

 

I don't think they were in league.  He sure didn't seem happy to see an Aes Sedai in Emond's Field, and although he could be acting, there's plenty of other times that show they weren't working together.  In fact, I think part of the reason each one is intrigued with the other is because of their own mystique.

 

Thom wasn't touring backwater villages so much, he was hired by Bran al'Vere because the mayor wanted to make Bel Tine especially memorable that year, due to the terrible winter, the people would need something to really lift their spirits (same reason he bought the fireworks).  I believe Thom was in Baerlon at the time, which isn't a huge city or anything, but remember, Thom is a gleeman after all.  He travels around and performs, so a place like Baerlon isn't too "small potatoes" for him.

[RobertAlexWillis]

can u give a quote were it says Thom did it because that doesn't ring any bells and i know my WOT pretty well.

 

It is never stated directly in the books, but given Thom's reminiscence on what trouble it causes killing a king, even if he deserved killing, the timing of Galldrian's death (immediately following the death of Dena at his men's hands) and Thom's history of high profile assassination (Thom killed Taringail Damodred too), it is all but absolutely certain.  (see his meeting with Mat in TDR ch 31, and his conversation with Moiraine in TSR ch 17)

 

I mean lets face it, Thom is quite a prominent gleeman to be touring back-water villages.

 

Thom was probably drawn to Emond's Field by the three boys being ta'veren, but whatever the reason, he wasn't in league with Moiraine.  Their conversation in TSR ch 17 (the only time we ever see them alone together) pretty much confirms that.

[Magicana]

Let us also not forget that Thom also started the civil war in Cairhien.  He killed the King there for sending asassins after him to find out what Rand was up to.  Those asassins killed Thom's girlfriend.  After dispatching them he went and finished off the King.  This led to the firing of the granaries, which led to the army atacking the rioters, which started the fighting. 

 

Actually, the timeline is more:

 

Rand gets message from Barthane

Barthane dies

Dena dies

Thom kills the two men

Granaries Fired

Thom kills Galladrian

Civil War

 

:)

 

[World_of_Wheel_of_Time]

First: congratulations and making an actual intelligent entry!!!  ;D ;D ;D

 

Thom is one of the most complex characters in tWoT no doubt

 

NICE POST MOIRAINE!!! YOUR SOOOOO COOOOOL!!!

 

Trakand 01 you have a nice theory, if it was true it would be sweet, but I don't think it's likely (IT'S STILL POSSIBLE THOUGH, GO GO GO GO!!!)

 

professorskar is correct, it's very possible that the three Tav'eren drew what they needed to them, which was protection from Moiraine, which materialized in the form of Thom Merrilin...

 

I am convinced that Thom did kill Galldrian, there are so many clues that you can safely assume that, and then (if wrong) be shocked and yell in outrage!!!  ;D ;D ;D

[Great Lord of the Dark]

NICE POST WORLD OF WHEEL OF TIME!

 

YOU ARE SUCH AN @$$!!

 

 

sorry i just had to do that

[Darth_Andrea]

can u give a quote were it says Thom did it because that doesn't ring any bells and i know my WOT pretty well.

 

It is never stated directly in the books, but given Thom's reminiscence on what trouble it causes killing a king, even if he deserved killing, the timing of Galldrian's death (immediately following the death of Dena at his men's hands) and Thom's history of high profile assassination (Thom killed Taringail Damodred too), it is all but absolutely certain.  (see his meeting with Mat in TDR ch 31, and his conversation with Moiraine in TSR ch 17)

 

I mean lets face it, Thom is quite a prominent gleeman to be touring back-water villages.

 

Thom was probably drawn to Emond's Field by the three boys being ta'veren, but whatever the reason, he wasn't in league with Moiraine.  Their conversation in TSR ch 17 (the only time we ever see them alone together) pretty much confirms that.

 

 

Well this is one topic that I think we could debate forever, RJ had planned a second prequil novel that took place just before EotW following Moraine and Lan up to the point they entered Emonds Field before winter night. And it would be assumed that something of Thom's journey would have been covered as well.

 

Though I also think that he was drawn by the collective pull of the boys. Winter night was the starting point of their destiny's, as such I would assume their being Tav`eren would have begun shortly before and drawn those threads to them that would be needed.

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]

[Majsju]

It might be worth keeping in mind that Thom did not randomly stroll into Emonds Field, he was invited by the village council.

[World_of_Wheel_of_Time]

Was he invited? Show me the quote...

 

I believe it said something like: Thom had came to the village in search of a new audience. He was hired just in time by the village council for the Festival...

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

Was he invited? Show me the quote...

 

In Chapter four (The Gleeman) of The Eye of the World, Thom appears for the first time and grumbles about his treatment "When I finally do arrive, chilled to the bone and ready for a warm bed, your inn-keeper gruimbles about the hour as if I were a wondering swineherd and your Village Council hadn't begged me to display my art at this festivel of yours. And he never even told me he was the Mayor."

 

Thus not only is it clear that Thom was invited to come but that the invitation was communicated to him either by an intermediary or wriirn message (as he did not know the Mayor).

[BrainFireBob]

RAW- you forget. Thom also stated his intent to slay Galldrian over Dena's body- with the innkeeper as witness.

 

"There's a man I have to kill, first."

 

Then Galldrian dies. And Thom takes to drinking- perhaps over Dena, perhaps guilt over all the dead in the riots. Perhaps because he can't decide if the price of revenge was too high.

 

Thom was solicited from Emond's Field- in addition to the quote provided, the Village "sent for a gleeman."

 

Thom also was famous in Cairhien for his skill in Daes Dae'mar, and was one of the resources that led Morgase to the throne. It's interesting that Morgase decided that there'd be no "Great Game" in Andor, but it took route immediately during the latest troubles. One suspects Merrilin was the original force behind Morgase's decision- the master eliminated the novices, or spanked them so badly they never tried again.

[Duneflayer]

can u give a quote were it says Thom did it because that doesn't ring any bells and i know my WOT pretty well.

 

It is never stated directly in the books, but given Thom's reminiscence on what trouble it causes killing a king, even if he deserved killing, the timing of Galldrian's death (immediately following the death of Dena at his men's hands) and Thom's history of high profile assassination (Thom killed Taringail Damodred too), it is all but absolutely certain.  (see his meeting with Mat in TDR ch 31, and his conversation with Moiraine in TSR ch 17)

 

 

where does it say that thom killed Taringail

 

 

 

[Tyrell]

A quick lookup on Encyclopaedia-Wot says it was in TSR chapter 17. I'll check later.

[Duneflayer]

thanks i'll check it

[Man of MAdnEss]

I was wondering what Thom was doing in Edu Bar, when Mat kidnapped Tuon, that makes the DeathWatch gaurds consider him such a dangerous and skilled general.  :-\

 

MM

[World_of_Wheel_of_Time]

I don't think he did much, but he did excite the new riots and the prince guy (forgot his name). He was conspiring with the prince guy and Juilin for a rebellion...

 

But I don't think that was it, I think it was more because Seachan had many spies and could study certain peoples histories... And they would not be surprised if Thom suddenly showed a massive talent in generaling.