Brandon Sanderson S2 Finale Reaction Video

[Jaysen Gore]

9 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

I know about the timer and that you're supposed to sync it and all that. Still wish that they'd have been able to put it on twitch and not have to deal with any of that.

This would have been a copyright strike without doubt, especially with it being such new content. so this is what they could do

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, Jaysen Gore said:

This would have been a copyright strike without doubt, especially with it being such new content. so this is what they could do

Everyday Negroes does it perfectly without getting into copyright issues. Could/should have imitated that format. 

[DaddyFinn]

Brandon is discussing a bit in reddit. His account is mistborn

 

 

 

 

[king of nowhere]

22 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

I tried to watch it, but without a video going in the corner to show what they were seeing, I wasn't going to watch 3 dudes sitting in silence for minutes eating snacks (They were silent when I hopped on), commenting on stuff without reference.

 

I don't mind a little mystery science theater 3000 every now and again. Sometimes it's fun to just ridicule shows I enjoy.

 

15 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Couldn't get through it. It's like watching paint dry.

Is there a chance somebody pious put up a summary somewhere?

 

Anyway, from a few reddit comments i get that there aren't major revelatiobs. 

What brandon praises as good moments and critics as bad moments are more or less the same that are mostly agreed even between supporters and detractors of the show

[Scarloc99]

On 10/13/2023 at 9:02 AM, Gothic Flame said:

I think Sanderson felt he had to clear the air and come firmly to the side of the "bookcloaks."

I think Sanderson thinks he wants to stay "relevant" in regards to WOT, and has decided that being the opposing voice to the show is the best way to sell more of his own books. I also think, before he goes questioning other peoples writing he should really look at his own. I personally do not rate him as a writer, I love that someone finished the final 3 books, I also rate the final 3 books as a disappointment. 

 

Remember this is the man who suddenly popped his head over the parapet as season 1 was happening and dropped the "lanfer and Nakomi" bombs in an attempt to try and prove what a clever writer he was that he tricked us all. 

 

I get his name is on the product, but, he is also being very 2 faced in his approach to this take the following from himself on Reddit. 


 

Quote

Rafe has always told me I can say what I feel I need to, and it's one of the things I most appreciate about this all. I'm surprised people would even have those rumors, after I did multiple podcast episodes talking very bluntly about season one. Nobody involved ever asked me to be quiet.

Let's be very clear, for the record, that I do not hate Season Two. Even if the scripts had been filmed as I read them, I would think it an improvement on Season One. And I know they made some revisions, which have largely been improvements. I liked Season One. This season is better.

There is a lot that is great. Nynaeve's accepted test--and, indeed, a lot of the Wonder Girls up until episode eight. All of the antagonists are wonderful. The stuff with Perrin/Valda/Hopper in episode eight was great. I came around on what was happening with Rand in the early episodes, and really ended up liking it.

At the same time, people need to understand: I have a stake in this they do not. My name is LITERALLY on this product. And so, it being weak in areas that are important to me is something that I find a bigger worry in it than I might in another show.

If you play loose and free with magic systems, then that reflects badly on me--as this is one of my specialties, and people will watch and be annoyed about things that I really, in a perfect world, should have been able to help the writers fix. I consider one of my other big strengths to be character arcs with powerful resolutions, and both seasons have really had troubles with this in the last episodes. That reflects on me, because having me involved should be able to help with this.

If I'm more critical of WoT, it's not because it's bad. Indeed, it's looking stronger than a lot of fantasy television, this season. However, once again, my name is on it. Even if I weren't a producer, my name is on some of the books. I feel more passionate about some of these weaknesses than I might when it comes to another property.

I also hold Rafe, and the writers, in very high regard for the difficult job they are doing quite well.

 

None of that view comes across in the watch along, none of that is expressed clearly I also disagree that he stuck to the "rules of the magic in the world" he overpowered Rand to a stupid level, seeing the "dark mark" on anyone, appearing as a burning bright light to the followers of the dark. I loved what he did with gateways, the different ways they could be used but that was about all he did with the magic system that I loved. 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Scarloc99

[SinisterDeath]

15 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

This would have been a copyright strike without doubt, especially with it being such new content. so this is what they could do

Apparently they can do it right on Twitch since Twitch is owned by Prime and it's something Prime is allowing content creators to do on their platform. (Or so I've been told?)

  

 

15 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Everyday Negroes does it perfectly without getting into copyright issues. Could/should have imitated that format. 

Typically they have to do a mirror/30% opacity, low volume off to the side, move it around, splash over the video, etc just to get Amazon not to shut it down... And even then those videos typically are edited and not live? (I could be wrong on the live part?)

[ilovezam]

4 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

Is there a chance somebody pious put up a summary somewhere?

I used OpenAI Whisper to get a text transcript of the audio, did some Find and Replace for names, and had GPT-4 summarise part by part. Totally no guarantees that it's a good summary.

 

1. Adaptation Choices: They discuss the difficulty of adapting Min's visions and Perrin's ability to smell emotions from the books to the TV format, generally approving of the changes. 

2. Character Depth: The commentators are impressed by the villains in the TV adaptation, especially the Forsaken, saying that the actors bring a depth to the characters that even exceeds that in the books.

3. Narrative Choices: They discuss changes such as Moiraine losing her powers and Rand leaving his friends, considering whether these adaptational choices served the story well or not. The opinions are divided. They also talk about how the series fast-forwards certain events or brings forward developments from the books to fit the pacing of a TV show.

4. Visual Effects and Set Design: Generally, they praise the set design and visual effects but note some areas where they could be improved. They particularly liked the set design of Falme.

5. Character Arcs: They feel that some characters like Lan and Moiraine had less compelling storylines this season, especially when compared to the books.

6. Egwene and Nynaeve: Both commentators seem to agree that the Egwene-Nynaeve storyline is the strongest of the season and closest to the books.

7. Story Pacing: The episode appears to start strongly, especially after what they feel was a more setup-heavy prior episode. They discuss the pacing in the context of various character arcs and how the changes affect the show's momentum.

8. Late-Series Inclusions: They notice that some elements from later in the book series have been brought forward to appear earlier in the TV series, which they generally appreciate.

9. Comparison to Books: They engage in a lot of comparison between the books and the TV series, discussing the strength and weaknesses of both mediums. For instance, they feel Fain is a weaker character in the books but has more potential in the series.

10. Personal Bias: One of the commentators mentions that they have read all the scripts but have not watched the entire season, indicating that their reactions are influenced by their knowledge of the original story.

11. Expectations and Predictions: Throughout the discussion, there are moments where the commentators predict what might happen next or how certain decisions might affect future episodes.

12. Nuanced Opinions: The commentators don't unanimously agree or disagree on many points, demonstrating the complex feelings fans can have towards adaptations of beloved series.

 

### Disagreements about Rand's Skills
- The commentators are split on Rand’s skills as a swordsman. Some think it’s unbelievable for him to beat a blademaster given his limited training. Others counter that he is taught by the world’s best swordsman, and being ta’veren also contributes to his extraordinary abilities.
 

### Questions about Character Arcs
- A major concern is the unclear character arcs for the season, particularly for Rand and Moraine. The commentators feel that the TV adaptation hasn’t given Rand's character the kind of narrative arc seen in the books, where his journey is intricately tied to learning from others and realizing his limitations.
  
### Comparison to Book Plot Points
- One commentator believes the TV show departs significantly from the book, notably in how Egwene frees herself, undermining the recurring theme of interdependence among the main characters.
  
### Issues with Adaptation Choices
- There are complaints about Matt using the dagger from Shadar Logoth. In the book series, the dagger has malevolent influences, and using it as a weapon contradicts the theme of Matt's character arc, according to the commentators.
  
### Pacing and Themes
- The commentators feel that the TV show often prioritizes cool scenes over thematic integrity and consistent character arcs. This is especially a concern going into adaptations of future books, where themes like self-sacrifice are pivotal.

 

### Technical Points
- Questions arise about the mechanics of channeling over distances and line-of-sight, as well as the realism of battlefield tactics.

 

### General Observations
- There are commendations for certain elements, like the portrayal of the Aiel, the use of crossbows, and the casting in general.
  
### Concerns for Future Seasons
- The commentators hope that future seasons will focus more on cohesive story arcs and maintaining the core themes of the series.

 

### Meta-Comments
- There's also some discussion about whether the show's choices align with themes and metaphysics set by the original books and whether Brandon Sanderson's own interpretation carries weight.

 

Overall, the commentators have a mixed reaction to the finale. They appreciate some of the adaptation choices but have significant reservations about the clarity of character arcs and thematic fidelity.

 

### Pacing and Episode Count
- The commentators believe the season needed more episodes to cover all the essential elements and arcs.

 

### Character Arcs and Development
- The commentators appreciate the addition of Moiraine's family drama but feel it comes at the cost of time that could have been better spent on other central characters.
- They question the decisions for some characters, such as why Elayne heals Rand when Nynaeve, a known healer, is there.
- They criticize the treatment of Uno's character, as he appears to have been given a special role but not enough context.
- They argue that characters like Perrin and Egwene have arcs that feel underdeveloped or not well justified.

 

### Story and Adaptation
- They bring up the issue that viewers unfamiliar with the books might be confused by the storytelling.
- There is dissatisfaction that certain events from the books were not adapted in a way that pays off in the TV series, like some specific scenes involving Rand and Ishamael.

 

### Philosophical Depth
- The commentators wish the show had presented a more defined philosophical conflict, particularly between Rand and Ishamael.
  
### Special Effects and Mechanics
- There are mixed feelings about the special effects, specifically around channeling.
- The commentators point out inconsistencies with the "rules" of the world, like how the characters' abilities seem to change without explanation.

 

### Overall
- While the commentators feel that Season 2 is a step up from Season 1, they still think the finale falls short in several areas, mainly due to pacing and underdeveloped character arcs.

Throughout the discussion, the commentators struggle with separating their book knowledge from their viewing experience, acknowledging that this might influence their opinions on the show's execution.

 

### Characters and Plot:
1. The reviewers criticize the lack of importance and agency given to several characters like Matt, Elayne, and Nynaeve, suggesting that their roles could have been eliminated without affecting the storyline.
2. They argue that Rand didn't need to be there for the story to proceed, emphasizing that Egwene seemed to be doing all the hard work.
3. They question the logic and emotional payoff of some scenes, like how Elayne climbs the tower with an arrow in her knee and how Perrin's shield and actions seemed inconsequential.

 

### Setup and Payoff:
1. They discuss the lack of build-up and payoff, especially around the horn. They argue that if the horn is so crucial, then its actual use and the events surrounding it needed more weight in the narrative.
2. While they praise the casting and performances, they feel that many of the character arcs did not come full circle or had weak endings, thereby affecting their overall enjoyment of the series.

 

### Directing and Cinematography:
1. They praise the direction in terms of extracting good performances from the actors but criticize the cinematography for lacking engaging shots.
  
### Thematic Concerns:
1. They discuss how the show differs from the books and how it can affect enjoyment based on whether one has read the books or not.
2. They mention that season two was much better than season one but still felt the finale was weaker than they had hoped.

 

### Metaphysical Aspects:
1. They debate the dagger's treatment, saying that it was inconsistent with the show's internal logic and metaphysics. They discuss how Matt’s temptation to touch the dagger didn't make sense in the show's context, especially compared to the books.
2. Questions are raised about the horn of Valere and how it's opened, leading to further questions about the show's internal logic.

 

### General Verdict:
1. Overall, they agree that the season was good and would recommend it to others, particularly those who haven't read the books. However, they feel the finale failed to tie together important narrative and thematic elements effectively, leading to a "shaky land."

 

In summary, the reviewers feel that while the season had high points, particularly in terms of performances and character development, it lacked in terms of narrative coherency, payoff, and thematic resonance, especially in the finale.

 

### Story Elements and Adaptation
- The reviewers discuss the efficacy of introducing elements like the heroes and the Ashanderei, noting that while these things may make book readers happy, they don't always serve the show's narrative.
  
- There's a consensus that the show might not be setting up key elements well. For example, the horn's significance didn't come across as essential in the show as it is in the books.

 

### Characters and Themes
- The characters and their thematic arcs are discussed. They mention that Rand, in book three, learns he needs his friends and wish the show had built to that realization more effectively.
  
- Elan is discussed in relation to Lanfear's betrayal, highlighting that the show didn't build enough around these relationships, leading to a somewhat hollow emotional impact.

 

### Ta'veren and Show Mechanics
- There is an extended conversation about the concept of "Ta'veren" — how much of the events are driven by fate versus the characters' own choices. Some believe Ta'veren is like plot armor that helps characters survive, while others argue it only manipulates chance but doesn't negate agency.
 - The reviewers note that the show has not made the concept of Ta'veren clear, which makes it difficult to rely on as an explanation for characters surviving against the odds.

 

### Power Levels
- The reviewers discuss the inconsistent portrayal of the power levels of characters, especially when it comes to facing the Forsaken. They argue that it’s shaky how characters like Egwene stand up against the Forsaken without a clear thematic or logical basis.

 

### Scene Execution
- The blocking and visual storytelling are criticized for not effectively conveying what's happening or the significance of what's happening.
- The reviewers mention that the show needs to better integrate how the mechanics of the Wheel of Time universe impact the story, citing things like Nynaeve's power block and the concept of shared power.

 

### Show Quality and Production
- While they critique the show, they acknowledge that adapting The Wheel of Time is an enormous challenge given the depth and complexity of the source material.
- They all express a desire for more episodes per season to allow for more thorough storytelling.

 

### Meta Criticism
- The discussion is also reflective of their differing philosophies on storytelling, especially on how adaptive works should function.
- They conclude by acknowledging the hard work put into the show and express their hopes for improvements in future seasons.

Edited October 14, 2023 by ilovezam

[king of nowhere]

3 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

I think Sanderson thinks he wants to stay "relevant" in regards to WOT, and has decided that being the opposing voice to the show is the best way to sell more of his own books. I also think, before he goes questioning other peoples writing he should really look at his own. I personally do not rate him as a writer

i see, you don't like sanderson so you don't like anything he does. and you ascribe the worst motivations to him.

seriously, he's sold tens of millions of books. do you really think he would need to hijack a commentary on a tv show to try and win some popularity? the man has a lot of integrity anyway - or if he doesn't, he bluffs extremely, extremely well.
finally, while you are free to dislike brandon sanderson, you certainly cannot say that you do not rate him as a writer. he is perhaps the most popular fantasy writer of the moment, and not just in some specific demographics. his general skill is beyond doubt

[ilovezam]

4 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

I think Sanderson thinks he wants to stay "relevant" in regards to WOT, and has decided that being the opposing voice to the show is the best way to sell more of his own books. I also think, before he goes questioning other peoples writing he should really look at his own.

 

It's totally reasonable to dislike his novels for whatever reasons, but the rest of your comment was completely unhinged IMO.

I don't think Brandon Sanderson is hurting for book sales or money or relevance. Don't be so quick to presume that anyone who doesn't like the show has some kind of insidious malicious agenda without any evidence whatsoever, lol.

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, ilovezam said:

 

It's totally reasonable to dislike his novels for whatever reasons, but the rest of your comment was completely unhinged IMO.

I don't think Brandon Sanderson is hurting for book sales or money or relevance. Don't be so quick to presume that anyone who doesn't like the show has some kind of insidious malicious agenda without any evidence whatsoever, lol.

Yes. But also, HE NEVER SAID HE DIDN’T LIKE THE SHOW. 
 

Criticism is not condemnation.

[fra85uk]

Yes, he never trashed the show but clearly many things he likes and many are not satisfactory for him (and for a part of the fan-base).

 

[Pandemonium]

2 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

Yes, he never trashed the show but clearly many things he likes and many are not satisfactory for him (and for a part of the fan-base).

 

The arguments Sanderson made are all valid and I don't know why Rafe ignored so much of his feedback.  The internal logic of the tv show is still pretty non existent for channeling and some other things if not contradicting itself in various places.  

[Elder_Haman]

6 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

Yes, he never trashed the show but clearly many things he likes and many are not satisfactory for him (and for a part of the fan-base).

 

He didn’t just “not trash” the show. He actively praised it. Several times. 
 

That being said, I hope Rafe listens and absorbs some of Brandon’s very constructive criticism. 

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

i see, you don't like sanderson so you don't like anything he does. and you ascribe the worst motivations to him.

seriously, he's sold tens of millions of books. do you really think he would need to hijack a commentary on a tv show to try and win some popularity? the man has a lot of integrity anyway - or if he doesn't, he bluffs extremely, extremely well.
finally, while you are free to dislike brandon sanderson, you certainly cannot say that you do not rate him as a writer. he is perhaps the most popular fantasy writer of the moment, and not just in some specific demographics. his general skill is beyond doubt

50 shades sold millions of books, was that good writing? As did the twilight series it was based on, You like his work, I know many many people who like me don’t, someone can be a popular author and not a great writer. I generally don’t take book sales as a general view of skill.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Scarloc99

[king of nowhere]

1 hour ago, fra85uk said:

Yes, he never trashed the show but clearly many things he likes and many are not satisfactory for him (and for a part of the fan-base).

 

why some people can't understand a nuanced analysis and try to categorize everything in terms of hate or love?

1 hour ago, Scarloc99 said:

50 shades sold millions of books, was that good writing? As did the twilight series it was based on, You like his work, I know many many people who like me don’t, someone can be a popular author and not a great writer. I generally don’t take book sales as a general view of skill.

but how do you define a good writer? based solely on your own opinion, if you don't like him he's bad?

brandon is praised by critics. he sells a lot. his plots are strong. any objective measure goes in his favor.

you bring 50 shades as counterpoint, but that wasn't a fantasy book - different sales. it relied heavily on fanservice, and was mostly panned by critics. twilight was mostly aiming at one target demographics - I did specify sanderson is popular across all democraphycs specifically because I was anticipating a twilight comparison -, it also relied heavily on a different kind of fanservice, and it also had many poor reviews. it had plot holes and other things that are general hallmark of bad writing. it's clearly not the same thing.

plus, those authors didn't write dozens of other books. they were authors who had one successful idea, while sanderson has a half dozen successful sagas.

 

so, sanderson is objectively a good writer. that has got nothing to do with any individual reader liking or disliking him.

[Scarloc99]

3 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

why some people can't understand a nuanced analysis and try to categorize everything in terms of hate or love?

but how do you define a good writer? based solely on your own opinion, if you don't like him he's bad?

brandon is praised by critics. he sells a lot. his plots are strong. any objective measure goes in his favor.

you bring 50 shades as counterpoint, but that wasn't a fantasy book - different sales. it relied heavily on fanservice, and was mostly panned by critics. twilight was mostly aiming at one target demographics - I did specify sanderson is popular across all democraphycs specifically because I was anticipating a twilight comparison -, it also relied heavily on a different kind of fanservice, and it also had many poor reviews. it had plot holes and other things that are general hallmark of bad writing. it's clearly not the same thing.

plus, those authors didn't write dozens of other books. they were authors who had one successful idea, while sanderson has a half dozen successful sagas.

 

so, sanderson is objectively a good writer. that has got nothing to do with any individual reader liking or disliking him.

I mean Sanderson himself has said in interviews he isn't a very good writer, he is just very prolific, he has admitted his prose can be cringeworthy and just not very good. He churns out books at a rate of knots and seems to not really self edit, many others state that he is a bad sentence writer, a friend of mine explained to me that he writes cheap fantasy fiction that reads like a clancy or jack reacher novel and that is why he likes him, he doesn't ever have to think to deeply about it to enjoy it. However I compare him the Stephen King who went through a period of being so prolific he had to use a pseudonym for half his books and I can't think of a bad one, so it is possible to be prolific and write good work. 

 

So yes, I go from the words of the author, there are plenty of authors out there who make a living writing ok books, and I take my hat off to them, they are better writers then I am, but as a reader I cant stomach it, I have tried 5 different Brandon Sanderson books (ignoring WOT), he is the only author I have failed to finish a single book of because I just couldn't stomach his prose anymore. I won't knock anyone who likes him, I do however question why his ability to make a TV show would be better then anyone else. Authors historically make very very bad adaptations of there own work, it is why most hand the book over to a proper Script writer and get them to do it. 

[Yamezt]

33 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

 a friend of mine explained to me that he writes cheap fantasy fiction that reads like a clancy or jack reacher novel and that is why he likes him, he doesn't ever have to think to deeply about it to enjoy it.

 

I agree with the Tom Clancy/Jack Reacher analogy and that BS is generally an easy read without needing to think hard. I do enjoy reading BS books, though I must admit that I find the last 3 of the WoT my least favourite of his books.

 

The thing that amuses me is that 10+ years ago, there were similar vitriolic posts towards BS that are pretty similar to the ones now directed towards Rafe (such as. they are/were destroying WoT, they are/were disrespecting RJ, they are/were terrible at WoT lore, forgetting key stuff, and other personal attacks towards them etc). 

 

Yet present day, BS is carted out as the WoT expert.  What a difference 10 years make. 

 

I am actually interested to hear what Maria Simons think about s2 (I think Dragonmount did interview her about S1) since often BS mark certain interview questions as MAFO (Maria and find out) and she must have been a very important part of RJ's team and WoT would have been such a large part of her career..

[king of nowhere]

1 hour ago, Scarloc99 said:

I mean Sanderson himself has said in interviews he isn't a very good writer, he is just very prolific, he has admitted his prose can be cringeworthy and just not very good.

sanderson is very humble. which is how he became a good writer, by always striving for more.

and I'm quite doubtful he actually said that. I think it must be a case of horribly misquoting out of context, just like people claiming he trashed the wot tv show when he did no such thing.

that said, prose is generally acknowledged as one of his weak spots. I actually like its utilitarianism and much prefer it to the flowery descriptions of robert jordan, but that's a tangent. you can't get into his books because of the prose, I respect that. but all the stuff about his books being cheap and dumb and not really thought out, that's patently false.

Quote

He churns out books at a rate of knots and seems to not really self edit

that is very wrong. every book he writes goes through half a dozen different reviews. a dozen, for the really big books. he still manages to keep a good pace.

 

Quote

a friend of mine explained to me that he writes cheap fantasy fiction that reads like a clancy or jack reacher novel and that is why he likes him, he doesn't ever have to think to deeply about it to enjoy it.

that is even more wrong. ok, i guess you can read it without thinking too much, but really. first of all, even his smaller books come with extensive worldbuilding. and part of the charm is immersing into the world itself. the stormlight archive is roughly as extensive as wot in terms of having detailed different cultures. smaller books are less detailed, but still, they each present unique cultures.

And each of that comes with extensive research. he wrote a book with a paraplegic character, he interviewed people with that condition. he wrote a book with a depressed character suffering from ptsd as a result of war, he researched those conditions extensively. and he did such a good job that he got plenty of praise by actual war veterans. he wrote an atheist, he went browsing atheist forums, and once more he got plenty of praise from actual atheists.

the science matches too. in one book a character gets ahold of a magic metal; he runs mundane chemical tests on it, as a chemist I can confirm he did an excellent job. he has all kinds of weird planets and the physics always checks, and where it does not check it is explicitly mentioned to be fueled by magic.

His books are also littered with hints and easter eggs that most people never find out unless they go ask in the forums.

and of course, the magic systems match. he starts with some principles, and he keeps to those. forget all that crap about character power levels being inconsistent.

 

So no, the idea that sanderson churns out cheap, light, thoughtless escapism without any depth, meant to be read and forgotten can't be furthest from the truth. Your friend must have the wrong guy.

[Mirefox]

Over on Reddit as part of the conversation, BS called out the show for playing fast and loose with its magic systems.  I have a few problems with the writing but I think this in particular is so damaging to a fantasy show; the more fantastical you are the more you need rules lest every bit of magic just be a deus ex machina for the current problem.  The lore and the magic in the show is sometimes changed on a whim to suit the plot and this is weak writing that damages the show.  
 

I’m obviously a big critic of the show but I think part of the problem is that the issues are compounded on each other.  I could handle a “different turning of the wheel” a lot easier if the lore and world building were more consistent.  Amazon did not out its best and brightest to work on the writing here and every issue I’ve had with the show is magnified by that.

[Scarloc99]

7 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

sanderson is very humble. which is how he became a good writer, by always striving for more.

and I'm quite doubtful he actually said that. I think it must be a case of horribly misquoting out of context, just like people claiming he trashed the wot tv show when he did no such thing.

that said, prose is generally acknowledged as one of his weak spots. I actually like its utilitarianism and much prefer it to the flowery descriptions of robert jordan, but that's a tangent. you can't get into his books because of the prose, I respect that. but all the stuff about his books being cheap and dumb and not really thought out, that's patently false.

that is very wrong. every book he writes goes through half a dozen different reviews. a dozen, for the really big books. he still manages to keep a good pace.

 

that is even more wrong. ok, i guess you can read it without thinking too much, but really. first of all, even his smaller books come with extensive worldbuilding. and part of the charm is immersing into the world itself. the stormlight archive is roughly as extensive as wot in terms of having detailed different cultures. smaller books are less detailed, but still, they each present unique cultures.

And each of that comes with extensive research. he wrote a book with a paraplegic character, he interviewed people with that condition. he wrote a book with a depressed character suffering from ptsd as a result of war, he researched those conditions extensively. and he did such a good job that he got plenty of praise by actual war veterans. he wrote an atheist, he went browsing atheist forums, and once more he got plenty of praise from actual atheists.

the science matches too. in one book a character gets ahold of a magic metal; he runs mundane chemical tests on it, as a chemist I can confirm he did an excellent job. he has all kinds of weird planets and the physics always checks, and where it does not check it is explicitly mentioned to be fueled by magic.

His books are also littered with hints and easter eggs that most people never find out unless they go ask in the forums.

and of course, the magic systems match. he starts with some principles, and he keeps to those. forget all that crap about character power levels being inconsistent.

 

So no, the idea that sanderson churns out cheap, light, thoughtless escapism without any depth, meant to be read and forgotten can't be furthest from the truth. Your friend must have the wrong guy.

No not an mis quote, a quote he said in an interview to an interviewer who spent 4 days with him. He also has stated he hates re writes and edits, he wants to write the next new thing and not go back over and over his own work, and that leads to sloppy prose. From what people have told me his ideas are great, for me he does a bad job of making me want to read them. 

 

Look your opinion is that you love his work, that’s great, accept that there are many who don’t, his writing style is def in the YA genre and it suits that. That doesn’t mean only youngsters should read it, Harry Potter was loved by adults as well as children (and no I don’t think that is great writing either, but it is written as a children’s book and as a children’s book it is amazing), and yes he does churn out lots of books, he again admits that himself. 
 

As for research, Clancy would spend months doing detailed research on his novels, the Jack reacher novels are researched to hilt as well, authors do research for books, the writing can still be disposable. 
 

I actually think the thread below really explains it better, and it isn’t an attack thread, but makes some great points about how Brandon chooses to ignore subtext, depth and writes very flat relying on his world building and action. 
 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Scarloc99

[king of nowhere]

3 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

No not an mis quote, a quote he said in an interview to an interviewer who spent 4 days with him.

 

was that the infamous interview where the interviewer was trying really hard to make sanderson look bad?

putting aside that that interview already was taking quotes out of context to make them look the worst possible, it was already misquooted in the first place; there is a huge difference between "does not really self edit" and "does not like to self edit". i mean, i really do not like to wake up early in the morning, but you'd need better than that to build a case that i'm skipping work.
 

Quote

 

He also has stated he hates re writes and edits, he wants to write the next new thing and not go back over and over his own work, and that leads to sloppy prose. From what people have told me his ideas are great, for me he does a bad job of making me want to read them. 

 

Look your opinion is that you love his work, that’s great, accept that there are many who don’t, his writing style is def in the YA genre and it suits that. That doesn’t mean only youngsters should read it, Harry Potter was loved by adults as well as children (and no I don’t think that is great writing either, but it is written as a children’s book and as a children’s book it is amazing), and yes he does churn out lots of books, he again admits that himself. 
 

As for research, Clancy would spend months doing detailed research on his novels, the Jack reacher novels are researched to hilt as well, authors do research for books, the writing can still be disposable. 
 

I actually think the thread below really explains it better, and it isn’t an attack thread, but makes some great points about how Brandon chooses to ignore subtext, depth and writes very flat relying on his world building and action.

 

all of that is an attack on prose.

sure, nobody is disputing that prose is the weak spot of sanderson. is weak prose enough to conclude one is a "bad writer" when he excels at many other things?

 

 

[trw1972]

I watched it, i was surprised he was so negative but that's ok i guess. I watch a lot of reactor videos - the only ones i don't watch are knights watch and disparu- because they bring culture war nonsense and politics into it and i have no interest in politics or culture war stuff.

 

I actually prefer non reader reactions like the everyday negroes because i think some readers are so busy analysing the episode for changes etc that they forget to sit back and enjoy. I think maybe sanderson is influenced by being so close to the books having written 3 of them.

 

As for Sandersons books, not getting into the discussion of whether he is YA or not- (i do think Eotw is YA btw) . Personally i like his books and i LOVED the way of kings, that is my favourite of the stormlight archive but i am completely invested in the series. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by trw1972

[Mirefox]

18 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

He didn’t just “not trash” the show. He actively praised it. Several times. 
 

That being said, I hope Rafe listens and absorbs some of Brandon’s very constructive criticism. 

He praised production and marvels that a story of this d or can be made.

 

He is critical of story arcs, characterization, lore, world building, etc.

 

Too many are satisfied with mediocre storytelling under a pretty veneer and it would be nice if the writers listened more to the criticism.  But how many times did we hear BS say things like “I really tried, everyone…?”

[Elder_Haman]

47 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

He is critical of story arcs, characterization, lore, world building, etc.

Being critical of something is not the same as disliking or trashing it. 
 

BS, like many of us, see the writing as the weakest part of the show. There’s miles of difference between that and “the writing is horrible and an affront to RJ’s memory and Rafe just thinks he’s better than everyone.”

[king of nowhere]

1 hour ago, Mirefox said:

He is critical of story arcs, characterization, lore, world building, etc.

he is critical of some of the story arcs, characterization, etc.

there is a huge difference between saying "some parts of thise 8-hours-long saga are bad" and "all of the 8 hours are bad".