WoT Season 2 Episode 6: Eyes Without Pity

[SinisterDeath]

This is the topic for Season 2, Episode 6: Eyes Without Pity

Director: Maja Vrvilo

Writers:  Rammy Park / Rafe Judkins

 

This topic is for discussing Episode 6 only. You should expect to encounter Full Spoilers Up To Episode 6, and full book spoilers on this topic.

[ForsakenPotato]

Ooooooooff this episode was dark, but I thought well done.

 

The actress playing Egwene continues to impress me, and those torture scenes cannot have been easy. It was disturbing in the books but seeing it onscreen was significantly harder for me to stomach.

 

Rand and Mat reunited was so great for the 30 seconds it lasted! They both continue to get totally played by the Foresaken though...wise up sheepherders! I'm enjoying Mat's character a lot more now that he's out and about, can't wait to see him get some powers of his own. Rand and Logain seemed off to a good start in terms of lessons, but uh, I guess that's already over. Maybe Lan will be more successful and finally teach him to use his freaking sword. Lanfear and Ishamael also continue to be fantastic villains, so I'm not going to complain about the amount of screen-time they are getting...they're the most fun characters at the moment!

 

I don't really know where things are going with the Moiraine/Lan/Alanna/Siuan situation at the moment so I guess that's a wait and see situation. I hope we'll get a Moiraine & Lan reunion with some actual explanations since they are both in Cairhien, but I'm not holding out hope for it. I don't mind Moiraine's family drama either, I think all the actors are very good, I just hope it's going somewhere.

 

Was the Yellow sister's channeling near the end there strictly self-defense...seems like the oaths are bit lenient if you're allowed to fold people's bones like origami. I couldn't help cheering her on anyway though.

[DreadLord31]

Well… my initial reaction//first thoughts:

 

1. We got confirmation in Moiraine’s letter that she is stilled. 
2. Egwene/Maddy did an amazing job acting - truly heart wrenching.

3. Love Elayne//Ceara

4. The CGI was mostly bad, some decent moments - but on the whole - bad. 
5. Some scenes just rub me the wrong way - Moiraine/Lan/Min

6. Do not like what they’re doing with Matt (still…) 

7. Lan is one of my favorite characters in the book & has been just butchered by the show. 
8. Liandrin//Lanfear are the stars … so I guess I’m cheering for the Shadow in this adaptation? 
9. Nynaeve still seems to me to be the most featured protagonist. 
10. I think the fighting choreography is probably pretty good - but their editing is SO bad - really hope they fix that by the finale. 
11. Overall, I’m still intrigued & it was above average/entertaining Tv. And I’d rate it a 6 out of 10. 
12. That being said, the up and down quality of episodes…has me really concerned about maybe getting another “Wa Wa Waaaa” finale. 

 

[Pandemonium]

4 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

Well… my initial reaction//first thoughts:

 

1. We got confirmation in Moiraine’s letter that she is stilled. 
2. Egwene/Maddy did an amazing job acting - truly heart wrenching.

3. Love Elayne//Ceara

4. The CGI was mostly bad, some decent moments - but on the whole - bad. 
5. Some scenes just rub me the wrong way - Moiraine/Lan/Min

6. Do not like what they’re doing with Matt (still…) 

7. Lan is one of my favorite characters in the book & has been just butchered by the show. 
8. Liandrin//Lanfear are the stars … so I guess I’m cheering for the Shadow in this adaptation? 
9. Nynaeve still seems to me to be the most featured protagonist. 
10. I think the fighting choreography is probably pretty good - but their editing is SO bad - really hope they fix that by the finale. 
11. Overall, I’m still intrigued & it was above average/entertaining Tv. And I’d rate it a 6 out of 10. 
12. That being said, the up and down quality of episodes…has me really concerned about maybe getting another “Wa Wa Waaaa” finale. 

 

 

is a 6/10 an above average grade for you?  that kind of seems like a low mark for that?

 

 

 

[Elder_Haman]

4 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

 

1. We got confirmation in Moiraine’s letter that she is stilled.

No. We got confirmation that Moiraine believes she is stilled. 

[DreadLord31]

1 minute ago, Pandemonium said:

 

is a 6/10 an above average grade for you?  that kind of seems like a low mark for that?

 

 

 

Yes, most Tv these days I rate below a 5. 5 is “eh” to me. For example, the whole of Rings of Power Id put at a 5/10. 

[DreadLord31]

2 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

No. We got confirmation that Moiraine believes she is stilled. 

Let the debate the rage on… LoL

I think, they’re not “faking us out” that much. They wanted to keep Moiraine central and interesting - and that’s the way to do it (give that whole plot arc to her instead of Siuan). The downside of that choice is that they’ve made Lan a big nothing burger with nothing to do. 

[Elder_Haman]

5 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

Let the debate the rage on… LoL

I think, they’re not “faking us out” that much. They wanted to keep Moiraine central and interesting - and that’s the way to do it (give that whole plot arc to her instead of Siuan). The downside of that choice is that they’ve made Lan a big nothing burger with nothing to do. 

Agreed about Lan. (Although I finally saw flashes of book Lan.)

 

But Mo doesn’t have to be stilled for it to be dramatic. She merely needs to believe she has been. Will be interesting if Mo recovers the OP only to have Siuan really be stilled. 

[A Memory Of Why]

Well that was another fun episode..

 

The Damane training was.. 🤮

 

Was a little worried they were going to pull there punches with this but it didn't dissapoint. The casual cruelty is sickening and horrifying, Maddy had a lot to work with and smashed it, that ending was heartbreaking.

 

Bloody Renna, bloody Seanchan!

Cannot wait for some comeuppance, Eggy Gunnar show them what they taught her 😈

 

Loving Lanfear without her mask and playing her own games, calling Rand Lews Therin (she said the thing!).

 

Ishy dear - lol! Question, was that Ishy or did Lanfear dream him. For some reason I can't imagine she'd call him that to his face.

 

Something about Barthaines seems off this episode, I take it back and now think hes allegiance will match the books.

 

Nyn & Elayne were fun and doing well together on screen, that's nice considering they spend alot of time together moving forward.

 

Weird they had Nyn do the understand the Adam thing, don't know what to think about that and was the only thing I shook my head at this ep.

 

Overall, these last 3 episodes are raising my faith in the show and I'm excited for the next 2.

[Pandemonium]

Really liked this episode. If Amazon cancels this after season 3 that will really suck.  Plus I won't ever trust Amazon to complete a flagship show.  The depth and unique elements are coming to this show.  So many new terms and concepts in each episode now.  Really likes the focus in telaranrhiod

 

Egwene ifinally gets the spotlight and doesn't disappoint.  I said before she is my favorite and this just confirms it more.   Pulled on my heartstrings big time.  Can anyone say this doesn't feel exactly like the books?

 

Treesinging was great.  Loial needs more development.  

 

Lan.... so disappointing.  Has he succeeded in anything on this show yet?  They definitely aren't making him look like the best of the warders. 

 

Matt was good to see, but I think he is still a big mystery to the audience.  The show is probably doing this on purpose, but the non book readers are like what is the point of that guy?

 

Lanfear is feeling spot on to the books.  That is exactly the relationship she had with Rand, even conspiring against Ishamael.  Plus she shows how dark she is with Liandrin.  

 

Looks like we are finally seeing cat crosses the courtyard next episode with Rand and Lan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Pandemonium

[Rhaze]

 eh, I wasnt crazy about this episode but I liked it because it has a lot of build up for what I believe is going to be an excellent episode next week. Dont like Mat hiding from Rand. In the bonus they are talking about Mat feeling guilty for leaving at the waygate and so glad to be back with Rand, then he doesnt show up? I am confident he will be there and he will blow the horn, but come on, stop making my boy Mat look so bad. Another Lan loss. Held by the power and brow beaten and gives up the biggest secret in Randland. Lanfear was the winner of this episode.

[Finnssss22]

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Agreed about Lan. (Although I finally saw flashes of book Lan.)

 

But Mo doesn’t have to be stilled for it to be dramatic. She merely needs to believe she has been. Will be interesting if Mo recovers the OP only to have Siuan really be stilled. 

 

Have we all forgotten about Suian's cold open being extremely adapt at unravelling knots.

Is Moiraine stilled or just tied off? Hmmmmm.... 

 

Anyway, I enjoyed this episode, solid 8.5 for me, second only to the 9 I give episode 5.

The only weak episode for me this season was ep 2.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Finnssss22

[Mailman]

Liked some parts of the training scenes thought the acting was solid from Egwene. Did not like the hands on beating of Egwene would rather the training have been done with just collar also unsure of Renna lifting Egwene high enough to hang her on the wall did she use the power herself to do it?

 

The travel issues are really starting to get to me every character seems to just have fast travel engaged all the time. From the tower to camelyn to cairhein to the farm and back and forth with no hint of time in between. It makes the world feel incredibly small.

 

The Amrylin seems to travel with a very small party. Seems ripe for an ambush.

 

Loial CGI continues to be disappointing.

 

Lan again disappointing just gives up the secret with little effort to resist.

[fra85uk]

Lan character is almost beyond redemption 

 

[fra85uk]

6 hours ago, Pandemonium said:

Really liked this episode. If Amazon cancels this after season 3 that will really suck.  Plus I won't ever trust Amazon to complete a flagship show. 

 

Unfortunately these streaming companies are not trustworthy on this subject.

Amazon already cancelled a few series in the last months as execs are starting to question the way in which Video division is spending the money.

D+ just axed two completed shows before even broadcasting them.

Warner Bros also did something similar with Batgirl, even destroying the physical copies of the movie.

Honestly, only super-successful and popular shows are safe at the moment (better if they are not super-expansive), which is sad because it will become difficult to draw people to new series going this route.

[king of nowhere]

5 hours ago, Finnssss22 said:

 

Have we all forgotten about Suian's cold open being extremely adapt at unravelling knots.

Is Moiraine stilled or just tied off? Hmmmmm.... 

 

 

could be a satisfying way to tie up that plot.

no pun intended

[Windigo]

8 hours ago, DreadLord31 said:

1. We got confirmation in Moiraine’s letter that she is stilled.

Or Confirmation that Moiraine believes she has been stilled.  Either way it follows plots from the book. 

 

Spoiler

In the books after the tower Moraine is less powerful, After being healed Leane and Siuan are less powerful, we are getting the same plot points and story, just contracted and less spread out. 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Windigo

[DreadLord31]

3 minutes ago, Windigo said:

Or Confirmation that Moiraine believes she has been stilled. 

I think y’all give the writers too much credit. Moiraine is stilled. 
 

4 hours ago, fra85uk said:

Lan character is almost beyond redemption 

 

Yup. Butchered. But I think it’s because they chose to try to keep Moiraine central. So I expect more butchery unless they do follow the books … 

 

4 hours ago, Mailman said:

The travel issues are really starting to get to me every character seems to just have fast travel engaged all the time. From the tower to camelyn to cairhein to the farm and back and forth with no hint of time in between. It makes the world feel incredibly small.

That bothered me too, in this episode. 
Particularly having Verin, Liandrin, and the Amylrin just show up in Cairhein because you want them there. 
 

 

Also, this season as a whole has been much better than the previous season. But it bothers me that we might get through two complete seasons & Perrin, Mat, and Rand (and Lan) feel like crappy side characters compared to Egwene/Nynaeve/Moiraine. 
 

And seriously - most of y’all are probably major book fans if you’re posting on a forum like this - would you have EVER guessed (10 years ago) that the Tv adaptation would make Liandrin one of the most interesting characters? 
I mean, Kate Fleet is killing it - but that writing choice only makes sense to me if A) she replaces Messana & Alviarian 

B) you Know you’re going to get 8 seasons

 

[king of nowhere]

i knew what happens in the book, so i was ready to see egwene tortured, but the end was heart-wrenching anyway.

in the books we don't see ryma captured, and we don't get to see her and her warder before her capture. that made it extra heart-wrenching.

 

we don't see what happens to the damane after she kills the suldam. did the damane die of adam-transfered pain? did she live? could be relevant for escaping an adam

[Vartija]

Really liked the Egwene submission training. Even when you kind of knew what was going to happen they managed to make it emotional and meaningful. I thought Madeleine Madden was great in those scenes. Probably the best acting I've seen at least from the TR5.  

 

Minor quibble about it: I thought the final scene with Maigan could have been done better. We didn't need to be told "I was a Sitter of the Blue Ajah". They already established that in the episode and in that scene it came off like needlessly reminding the viewers. I think it would have been more striking if Maigan had acted more like she's already forgotten that part of her past. We would still have been able to connect the dots by recognizing her face. 

 

I thought the Wonder Girls at Falme was pretty good as well. I liked the sacrifice the Yellow did to save the girls. I liked when she called Nynaeve "sister", that felt surprisingly emotional. They're doing a consistent job with Nynaeve being the impulsive one and Elayne the sensible one. Felt like a solid starting point for their friendship. 

 

Overall the episode was entertaining but there we definitely some things I struggled with. Didn't like Lan blabbering to Alannah about the Dragon Reborn. Moiraine's strategy feels a bit all over the place: could she really be surprised Lanfear was able to manipulate Rand to a path she doesn't like? Should have been obvious to her before she told him to get close to her in the dream that it might go bad. 

 

Still don't like Min's arc. Am I missing something here or are they really making her wanting to get rid of her visions the driving force for her character? Doing a deal with the "devil" so casually just irks me. 

 

Liked Rand & Mat's reunion, as long as it lasted. I understand Mat's motivations not to go with Rand after hearing about Min's viewing. Seems like the noble thing to do at that point though we know he'll still end up in Falme somehow.          

[mogi68]

Absolutely loved the Mat and Rand scene. I was crushed that they got split up again.

 

Did Ishamael plant the vision Min had of Mat killing Rand? How would he know about it?

Edited September 22, 2023 by mogi68

[Pandemonium]

44 minutes ago, Windigo said:

Or Confirmation that Moiraine believes she has been stilled.  Either way it follows plots from the book. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In the books after the tower Moraine is less powerful, After being healed Leane and Siuan are less powerful, we are getting the same plot points and story, just contracted and less spread out. 

 

It seems Moiraine is playing the stilled Siuan role in this show?  Makes me wonder if Siuane and Leane will simply be killed after the civil war.  Probably better to kill them off than keep them around in tv medium 

[king of nowhere]

28 minutes ago, Vartija said:

Minor quibble about it: I thought the final scene with Maigan could have been done better. We didn't need to be told "I was a Sitter of the Blue Ajah". They already established that in the episode and in that scene it came off like needlessly reminding the viewers. I think it would have been more striking if Maigan had acted more like she's already forgotten that part of her past. We would still have been able to connect the dots by recognizing her face.

 

some of us are pretty bad at recognizing faces. i didn't recognize her until she said it, so for me it was necessary.

[SinisterDeath]

9 hours ago, DreadLord31 said:

1. We got confirmation in Moiraine’s letter that she is stilled. 

I'd argue that it's still not confirmation. It's only confirmation she believes it. 😉 

  

10 hours ago, ForsakenPotato said:

Was the Yellow sister's channeling near the end there strictly self-defense...seems like the oaths are bit lenient if you're allowed to fold people's bones like origami. I couldn't help cheering her on anyway though.

She took an arrow to the chest.
 

Quote

Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder, or another Aes Sedai

If you go by back the blue logic, then yes.

[DaddyFinn]

45 minutes ago, Vartija said:

Minor quibble about it: I thought the final scene with Maigan could have been done better. We didn't need to be told "I was a Sitter of the Blue Ajah". They already established that in the episode and in that scene it came off like needlessly reminding the viewers. I think it would have been more striking if Maigan had acted more like she's already forgotten that part of her past. We would still have been able to connect the dots by recognizing her face. 

I found it important that both Egwene and the audience now know that a Blue Sitter broke before her. Did you notice how Egwene lifted her chin up after hearing that? She still has that inner strength and just needed something to recompose herself

 

Also I thought it foreshadowed nicely 

Spoiler

Her becoming the Amyrlin later

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by DaddyFinn