How did the show hold up for you?

[DojoToad]

Want to love it, but so far in the dislike category.  Here is why I'm where I'm at on first pass:

• Loved Moiraine bypassing Nynaeve and going straight to Marin - total Aes Sedai.  But then Marin is running the show in the inn for the remainder.  Bran is just window dressing.  Is he even the mayor?  He was cut off at the knees.  Why make this change for minor characters?  To reinforce women run this world - which they do, but men can't have any authority/positions of power even as an innkeeper?
• Egwene passes her test to join the women's circle.  The whole inn erupts when she enters - "You're drinking with us".  But then Rand and Perrin don't have a clue how the ceremony went??  Is this to show how stupid men are or just incredibly bad editing?
• During the attack a bunch of women isolate and kill one of the trollocs.  When this happened in the books during the battle of Two Rivers, it was very emotional for me. Tai'shar Manetheren!  But here just looked silly.  And where were the men, curled up in balls waiting it out?
• Nynaeve getting dragged away by a trolloc just so that she could be Wonder Woman.  Unnecessary and unrealistic.
• I liked what they did with Mat's parents.  Took a bit of the Pollyannish flavor off the Two Rivers.  They also did a great job showing how much he loved the little sisters.  But that said, why the hell would he traipse off after Moiraine when he knows his parents won't take care of them.
• Didn't like Perrin killing his wife at first, but then I thought it gave him very good motivation to put as many leagues as possible between himself and home.
• Moiraine and Lan sharing a bath - ew.  Why?  They aren't in Fal Dara and don't think they even have 'hot tubs' in the backwater Two Rivers.
• I liked the adulting up of Egwene and Rand's relationship - should pay dividends down the road
• Padan Fain way different than I imagined, but loved him!!
• Taren Ferry - yuck.  No town, cobblestones, fog...  And what did the old man think he was going to do crossing the river - beat all the trollocs into submission with his bare hands?  Stupid.
• Shadar Logoth - Mashadar was lame.  Why black?  Keep the effects the same but make them a luminescent silvery-gray like in the books
• Good job with transitioning Mat to the Negative Nellie after acquiring the dagger.
• Thom was rough with his singing.  I understand from the books there is high chant, low chant, and common (I think?)  Does he improve based on the clientele?  I wouldn't be tipping him.
• Moiraine fireballs were cool.  Her use of stones from the inn was EPIC!
• Liked that the Children are a more immediate threat than they were in much of the books.  But the confrontation with them after fleeing the Two Rivers was contrived.  Moiraine and Lan were obviously worried but the Children let them go too easily.
• Reds chasing the male channeler was underwhelming.  They portrayed him as a pathetic wretch sinking into madness - which is fine.  But a sick/wounded animal will fight back often, right?  How about some lightning bolts?
• Tinkers were threatening by surrounding the travelers, and their cloths not nearly bright enough - I didn't bleed from the eyes at all.

I'll watch the episodes again to see if I was missing something.  Be interested to hear feedback on my thoughts.  Stuck on the negative side of neutral right now.

[Els]

Love it and can't wait to watch more. Brings the books to life--sure there are changes but the show is based on the books as an adaptation so I can understand and agree with the changes to push the character arcs along. I picked up the books after watching the trailer so I did enjoy how the show pushed certain things along because one of my biggest gripes reading the book was how verbose it was at times (granted, that is just RJ's style of writing). Hope it does well enough to stick around for the full series. I'm on board.

[Still Trench]

Blood and bloody ashes that was a mess. I didn’t much care for it to be honest, I liked Lan and I liked them changing up Mat’s home life. But I didn’t much care for a lot of this, I’ve only seen the first episode mind you and I have every intention of continuing on but after that first episode, I needed to vent a bit because it left me shaking my head at a lot of this. The editing was down right awful, I usually don’t notice technical aspects but when I do notice it it means it’s really bad. I really don’t trust whoever is making this anymore, I realize that lots of things need to be changed and condensed but my first impression of this show is pretty bad. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Still Trench

[Maximillion]

1 hour ago, DojoToad said:

 

• Didn't like Perrin killing his wife at first, but then I thought it gave him very good motivation to put as many leagues as possible between himself and home.
• Liked that the Children are a more immediate threat than they were in much of the books.  But the confrontation with them after fleeing the Two Rivers was contrived.  Moiraine and Lan were obviously worried but the Children let them go too easily.

I'll watch the episodes again to see if I was missing something.  Be interested to hear feedback on my thoughts.  Stuck on the negative side of neutral right now.

 

Some feedback on a couple of your thoughts above:

- on Perrin, I have a feeling that his wife will turn out to be a darkfriend as was trying to kill him and it was the pattern that protected him by having him kill her.  He will come to realise that... can't tell if she had her weapon raised behind him to finish off the second Trolloc or she was going for Perrin.

 

- on the encounter with the Whitecloaks that was really bad to add that to story, even though I liked the scene.  Given the three oaths the Aes Sedai are unable to break, the job would be REALLY easy for a Questioner and they would have Aes Sedai identification down to a fine art.  Maybe just open up with 'Are you Aes Sedai?' - LOL.  

[DojoToad]

Oh yes, and Tam nodding encouragingly to Rand to run off with the Aes Sedai witch that only arrived the day before.  Really?

 

And Moiraine's conversation with Nynaeve at the sacred pool did nothing for me either.  Looks like the scene was thrown in just so Nynaeve could kill the trolloc there later.  Totally unnecessary conversation - and long.  Could have used that time somewhere else.

 

Overall the whole thing seems rushed.  Again, don't know if this is because I'm used to the pace of the books but it seems like they're leaving out too much just to keep everyone moving.  Maybe that is how it has to be.

 

Game of Thrones did a much better job adapting book to TV at least through the first 3 episodes.  Not apples to apples but similar enough for comparison's sake.

[Black Aeroway]

Extremely disappointed with story/character decisions. Blah characterizations, don’t recognize anyone or anything really. Not the WoT as far as I’m concerned.

[Joe B]

I was neutral. Love, Love, Love seeing the story come to life, even with the "updates". However, as far as a show, I am "meh' and hope it gets better.

[henfen]

As the Brits say... Rubbish. 

I'm pissed.  Calling it an adaptation is a euphemism.  It's been butchered.  I can't imagine non-readers being interested in it at all.  This is going to be a flop.  The story is too vague to hold the interest of those not familiar with the books.

Often, those of us who love the books are let down when it's adapted for the screen.  I get that.  But it can be done well, or at least good enough.  LOTR, Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, they were all at least passable.  The scripts didn't change so drastically as to seem like the writers didn't even bother to read the books first. 

There is just so much wrong.  An Aes Sedai being burned at the stake by Whitecloaks - why wouldn't she channel herself free?  And Rand and Egwene having sex in the first episode?  We don't even see them kiss in the books; plus, they all start out as prudish virgins, which is part of what is endearing about them.

Thom Merrilin is a guitar playing singer?  And singing about fricking Lews Therin.  Just awful.  A gleeman is not the same as some mediocre musician.  Talk about a let down.  They couldn't even do his cloak justice!

I could get on board with the characters looking a bit different than they're written.  I think most of the characters were cast well.  Lan just isn't nearly intimidating enough (and a Borderlander asking for hot water... just no).  It's as if someone skimmed the book - or was told about it by someone who flipped through it - and decided to just make up a new story to fill in the outline. 

There is a reason the series has held up over time - because it's good the way it is.  Don't just change things willy nilly because you're not creative enough to figure out how to make it work for TV.  Like pretending the Dragon could be a woman.  The whole point is that saidin and saidar are different, that saidin is tainted and will lead to the Dragon going insane and breaking the world again.  Seriously... unless somehow it gets better quick, what a waste of money, and a stain on the reputation of the series.  Super sad and majorly let down.

[Ryan al'Thor]

I'll have more to say after tonight when i watch E2 and 3. Without going into detail yet, 8/10 on episode 1. Favorite part, seeing Tam use the sword that will be hanging on my wall. 

[Wassup]

7 minutes ago, henfen said:

...

There is just so much wrong.  An Aes Sedai being burned at the stake by Whitecloaks - why wouldn't she channel herself free?  ...

I believe it is mentioned in the books that, even though you do not have to gesture in order to channel, most Aes Sedai are trained to gesture with their hands when they channel and come to rely on it.  The yellow sister had her hands cut off by the Whitecloaks.  How this happened will have to be left up to the imagination, but that might explain why she was not escaping.  I would think having her blindfolded too would have been a good addition.

 

I liked the series overall as it is.  There are several things I either do not like or am neutral on.  If they can improve over the course of the season and improve more for season 2, it can be a good series.  It is not GoT season 8 bad.  So, there is that.

[DojoToad]

4 minutes ago, Wassup said:

I liked the series overall as it is.  There are several things I either do not like or am neutral on.  If they can improve over the course of the season and improve more for season 2, it can be a good series.  It is not GoT season 8 bad.  So, there is that.

Not exactly high praise. ?

 

Episode 4 will need to be a big improvement for me or I might be done.  Dang.  Had such high hopes...

[Maximillion]

A couple more headlines from a simple WoT TV Ratings search.  Not cherry picked.. just from the headlines from the top stories.

 

"Amazon fantasy series is bland yet watchable" - Entertainment Weekly

"The Wheel of Time goes nowhere fast" - New York Times

 

"Wheel of Time grinds things like 'plot' and 'character' to a screeching halt" - Rolling Stone Magazine

 

Then a summary from the Hollywood Reporter.

Keep in mind that these guys have seen 6 episodes which were provided to influencers to, I assume, try and garner some positive reviews for marketing:

 

Quote

There’s a line in the first of Jordan’s books that I underlined. Moiraine is explaining the underpinnings of Aes Sedai philosophy to Egwene and says, “The One Power comes from The Source, the driving force of Creation, the force the Creator made to turn The Wheel of Time.” It isn’t a quote that’s reproduced exactly in the Amazon series, but nearly every line of dialogue has a comparable nebulousness. Fans will accept this as a framework atop which nuance will eventually be applied, and skeptics will find it dangerously close to a parody of the genre at its most formulaic. Even having read enough to know better, the Wheel of Time TV adaptation consistently brought out the skeptic in me

 

 

This is not good.

Feels like Rafe has killed this stone dead to me with his tinkering.

He's may well have failed to get the non book readers so it may prove to be the shows demise that he has pissed off too many book readers.

Too be honest, looking at his previous work, it does not surprise me that this may have all just been too much for him.  

 

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Maximillion

[Pandemonium]

Didn't love it, but I will keep watching as a fan of the books.

Hopefully they are reading the fan feedback so that they can fix some of our problems.

 

too many of these scenes are rushed and the tension and suspense isn't being built enough.  also the action scenes are blurry and unfocused, especially with the trollocs.

Since the actors are all decent. I'm really hoping this improves by the end of the season.

Some of these scenes like Shadar Logoth need more time to build up and the technical effects weren't great for the action scenes.  The trollocs were never in focus during the section.  

[Skipp]

39 minutes ago, Wassup said:

I believe it is mentioned in the books that, even though you do not have to gesture in order to channel, most Aes Sedai are trained to gesture with their hands when they channel and come to rely on it.  The yellow sister had her hands cut off by the Whitecloaks.  How this happened will have to be left up to the imagination, but that might explain why she was not escaping.  I would think having her blindfolded too would have been a good addition.

 

I liked the series overall as it is.  There are several things I either do not like or am neutral on.  If they can improve over the course of the season and improve more for season 2, it can be a good series.  It is not GoT season 8 bad.  So, there is that.

 Not to mention intense pain can prevent you from reaching the source, her hands being cut off and all.

[king of nowhere]

The first episode left me very worried. The fighting was good, but everything else was meh. The changes, taken individually they were all reasonable, but taken all together they pushed this into uncanny valley.

My brother, who is less tolerant of changes than I am, was close to tears.

 

But things improved a lot in subsequent episodes. I think the first episode was striving so hard to try and hook up viewers for the second episode - something the books themselves do not excel at, it took me a long time to actually appreciate the eye of the world.

From the second episodes, we get to see some better character interactions. And the characters speak to me. They got them right.

Even my brother was far more appreciative towards the end.

his girlfriend, who wasn't familiar with the books, also liked the show, and she also liked the last episodes better.

 

So far I'm in the like camp, but mostly because the introduction was awkward. If the series keep progressing like that, I'll shift towards love.

[MaxZorin]

Everybody wants to fix everything later but it's too late to fix that abomination of a debut episode. 

 

They had WAY more time to get that right then they are going to have for future seasons.  

 

"It gets better" sounds to most people like damning with faint praise.   

I don't want to hear that a show "gets better", I want to hear "it's good."

[The Purple Ajah]

Absolutely fantastic.

 

The first episode had some hallmarks on a pilot, but I loved it on a rewatch. Like Egwene, I needed to be pushed off the cliff and realize that in spite of it not being a recreation of the books, it is incredibly loyal to the source material in both a thematic and literal sense. There are still some aspects I wasn't sold on, and it could be choppy -- but by the Light, I don't envy Rafe for having to establish seven main characters and also get the plot going in episode 1.

 

The other two episodes were absolutely phenomenal. Exceptional television, and I know that if I didn't love the book series already, I'd be sold, and that's really what counts. 

[Arthellion]

Wife, non book reader, gave the show a 9/10. 

[king of nowhere]

39 minutes ago, MaxZorin said:

Everybody wants to fix everything later but it's too late to fix that abomination of a debut episode. 

 

They had WAY more time to get that right then they are going to have for future seasons.  

 

"It gets better" sounds to most people like damning with faint praise.   

I don't want to hear that a show "gets better", I want to hear "it's good."

It's good.

 

it's all a problem of expectations. as sanderson said through hoid, "give me an audience waiting to be entertained but expecting nothing special, to them i will be a king"

our own expectations were hyperinflated, that's all that's stopping us from really appreciating this show

[king of nowhere]

12 minutes ago, JoJ said:

The Whitecloak telling Moiraine to get healed by an Aes Sedai? I guess they don't believe all use of the OP is evil in this universe...

 

to me, that was meant to highlight the difference between bornhald, who is a whitecloak but basically a good man, and valda, who apparently is the fusion between two highly despicable individuals

[MaxZorin]

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

 

our own expectations were hyperinflated, that's all that's stopping us from really appreciating this show

I do not relate to this statement at all.

 

My lack of appreciation primarily stems from the show giving so little to be appreciative of.

 

But I hear it gets less bad as it goes on, so I'm totally stoked for that, and accept the responsibility that comes with said stokedness. 

 

If I don't appreciate future episodes I'll agree that it's all my own fault.   

 

But this first episode?  No.  I take no responsibility for that trainwreck. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by MaxZorin

[ForsakenPotato]

I liked it overall! Not as good as my wildest dreams but better than I expected from on the previews.

 

I'm a fan of the books but haven't finished them yet (am on number 10 at the moment, reading them all for the first time this year). Hopefully I don't get killed for saying this on here since I know the books are pretty sacred to a lot of people and I respect that, but for me personally watching the show isn't a lot worse than the books at this point in the plot.

 

I feel the show has given the characters a bit more depth then I felt they had at this point in the books (could give examples if it helps but also know the request was to keep explanations short). However, I think the books did better at setting up the suspense for winternight and shadar logath, and setting up the scale of the story with the prologue.

[Saken]

Waited a long time. It was friggin awful and I am horribly disappointed. 

[Pembie]

I haven’t watched them yet I’m just not that excited plus I want to finish the books first really 

[Starganderfish]

Heavily underwhelmed. Expectations where low due to the way Hollywood almost always stuffs up adaptations but expectations were not at all exceeded. 
Acting was bad, editing was shocking, CGI was mediocre. Trollocs we’re embarrassing (orcs from LotR 20 years ago we’re light years better). Scenery was nice but super empty and “wilderness” - felt like an empty dead world rather than a living breathing populated world. Pace was a mix between dull and crazy rushed and most of the story choices were just painful (Perrin havin a wife and killing her? Matt having an abusive family? Rand and Egwene bumping uglies?) 

I’ll be surprised if this gets a fourth season. And it’s sad because this failing will negatively impact similar future projects. We only got this because of GoT and we only got that because of LotR. If WoT fails, it doesn’t bode well for Mistborn or Cosmere projects.