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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

How did the show hold up for you?


DojoToad

5 episodes in - full spoilers  

309 members have voted

  1. 1. Where are you at on the TV show?

    • Love it
      52
    • Like it
      56
    • Neutral
      42
    • Dislike it
      67
    • Hate it
      92

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Some good and some bad, I mean where is Thom?  I understand just being 1n hour show they have to speed things up but their going to SL and Mat finding the Dagger was totally messed up for me and disappointing.  Having Moiraine nearly dead seemed pointless.  I know they skipped Rand's father's fever dream to help preserve the who is the Dragon mystery, the leave taking was horrible, with Tam basicly giving Rand a nod of the head as they left, the town seemingly not caring their kids were leaving with an Aes Sedai.  it's good but they made too many changes for me to call it great.

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I did not hate it, but I did not love it either. What a boring take, I know. This will be very long, but if there's one thing the Wheel of Time taught me (from a writing perspective), it's the value of being thorough.

 

Let's start with a positive.

 

 

Casting & Characterization

 

I think the casting and characterization is overall a big win, with a few reservations. Nynaeve is almost certainly my favorite thus far. She's a raging, glorious protector. The only moment when I questioned her portrayal was when she refused to heal Moiraine, which I don't think Nynaeve would ever do. This could have been a bluff though, I'm not sure.

 

Perrin, Tam, Padan Fain, and Eamon Valda are the runners up. Perrin feels like such a strong presence and has quite good chemistry with Rand and Mat. Tam is basically exactly how I pictured him. One sour note is that I do think was that he lost against a single Trolloc. I know he was rusty, but he didn't get that heron mark for no reason. Padan Fain's smile was already enough. Eamon Valda is vile and will be delight to despise.

 

Lan is great. He's not perfect for me (why did he care about the bath temperature), but I think he plays the stoic well without becoming a robot. He's quite a badass as he should be. I also loved his interaction with Nynaeve when she tried to kill him. Mat is also great with a couple big reservations. I think Rand has the potential to be fantastic, but narrative-wise is subdued thus far (rightly so). I love his innocence though. Egwene is solid, but not great. She just isn't given much to do so far, which is basically the same as the book.

 

I think I'm in the minority on this one, but two characters I'm not a big fan of thus far are Moiraine and Thom. Regarding Moiraine, she's certainly not awful, but she feels a too distant. I realize she puts on those kinds of airs as an Aes Sedai, but even in the book, I feel she is a little more warm than how she has been portrayed so far. It is hard to fully evaluate her though, since she's kind of been out of commission for one and half episodes. I hope they open her up more in later episodes.

 

As for Thom, I get the grungy country/rock star style they are going for, but I prefer the more regal, theatrical Thom of the books. This is just a stylistic preference, but I feel it rather strongly. As for how Thom behaves, it seems a running theme that the show turns what appear to be light hearted characters into darker, more troubled versions of themselves. Of course, we find later in the books that Thom is a much more troubled character than his initial introduction, but only once we get to sit with him for a time. That being said, I am higher on him than Moiraine, particularly because of the scene between him and Mat when burying the Aiel.

 

With regard to my reservations with Mat, I don't like the fact they made him a thief, at all. To me, Mat simply is not a person who would do that, especially to someone he clearly liked. I know he technically did it so he could buy lanterns for his sisters, but even so I feel this is a very un-Mat thing to do. If anything, he should have just charmed his way into getting the lanterns from the seller for free. Or perhaps humorously fail at such, but the seller takes pity on his sisters, leaving Mat without one.

 

Then there's the change they made to his family. His mom is a drunk and his dad is a cheater. I guess we should call him Unabell Cauthon now. Very bad jokes aside, it's another change to make the character a bit more broken. I don't feel it was necessary, and it will rob us of the very heartwarming scene where Tam and Abell travel all the way to the White Tower to find their children. So we have two not great changes, but fortunately, they don't ruin Mat himself as a character for me. Therefore outside of those changes, I still feel that his character is done quite well (if a bit less disarmingly goofy than what I'm used too) once they leave the Two Rivers.

 

While we're on the subject of character changes, Perrin has a wife. Then he doesn't, 20 minutes later. As I've seen many point out, it's a shortcut for explaining the way Perrin is later in the story, but for me, that's just it. It's a shortcut. They weren't willing to put in the work, so they took the short and easy path. It felt lazy. It's not the end of the world, but it was a low point for me. Similar to Mat, I still love Perrin himself though. I think the way his character has been portrayed through these events is very much how Perrin would react. This is why, even though I really dislike the change, I can still say I love Perrin's character within the show.

 

 

Story, Dialogue & Pacing

 

Ok, this one is significantly more mixed. I feel like the dialogue is sometimes pretty good, but most of the time it just doesn't hook me at all. Much of the dialogue doesn't feel very much like the books. Moiraine did manage to capture my attention during the description of the fall of Manetheren. I also enjoyed Dana's speech, when she revealed herself as a darkfriend. That felt VERY Wheel of Time.

 

In general the third episode was the strongest for me. The first episode was an absolute mess if I'm being honest. It felt like I was constantly being told, look at this, wait no look at this, no forget that, this is what's really happening! Then suddenly the Trollocs are attacking and the episode is over. The second was a good amount better, but still felt quite rushed. I was hoping to linger in Shadar Logoth a bit longer. I never really felt creeped out by the place. The third was the first episode where I felt they really took their time, which is why I enjoyed it the most.

 

Here are some random tidbits that stuck in my mind. I love the intro sequence. This is the part of the show that feels the most like the Wheel of Time for me. I loved the nightmare sequence Rand had. Though the context of Perrin's nightmare grated for me (since I didn't like the Laila inclusion), I thought it was quite effective terrifying nonetheless. The Ba'alzamon teases were cool in concept, but I won't lie, the CG just totally took me out of it on those. The gentling of a random dude by the red Aja was pretty lame. It seemed like screen time that could have been used for something a lot more critical. Loved Moiraine's epic bring down the house moment at the end of episode 1. I felt like the song on horseback was forced, but lead to a really good scene. The wolves don't feel intimidating at all, they look like they'd be nice as pets. I know fantasy wolves are so, so hard to do in live-action, but it still feels like another loss for me. I have no idea how they are going to make the talking not feel silly (if they have talking). The scene where Nynaeve took out a Trolloc was great, if a bit unlikely, and sadly more suspenseful than the entire Shadar Logoth sequence.

 

 

Art Design, Effects & Locations

 

This is another mixed bag for me. Some of the costumes are excellent. I loved most of the Two Rivers' folks get-ups. I didn't like the White Cloaks when they were first revealed, but they are growing on me. They definitely feel more cult-like, which adds to their maniacal side. Still, I would really like to see some shining armor at some point. The Aes Sedai have fairly good design in their costumes, but I despise the color coding. I get the reason, but I just hate it. I would also like to see more dresses. I know it's not practical, but I just am a sucker for dress fashion, love it to death. I also think Moiraine's shoulder things look goofy and rubbery, but it's a minor complaint.

 

The Trolloc's overall design is pretty cool in concept. I like that there is a variety, and that some even are on all fours. In practice, some of them are hits and some are misses. The CG on them does look dated to me, and the practical acting can be a bit weak in some places, in particular when they're stuck on the river bank, after the ferry departs. I wish there were a couple more beaked ones featured though, those where always my favorite in the book. Overall, they are still quite menacing, so I'll take it.

 

The channeling effects range from kind of poor to decent for me. I think the fireballs were the weakest, while I liked the lightning strike a good amount. The stone heaving looked alright, but the coolness factor of that moment made up for the CG rocks. The whirlpool also looked a little wonky, but water is notoriously hard in CG. I was pretty bummed that they didn't have Tam shudder after being healed, a minor change, but I always thought that was a cool (pun intended) layer to healing magic. I definitely like the idea of the weaves themselves being visible to the audience, but I feel like there is a LOT of potential room to grow in exploring more intricate weaves in the future. I hope they capitalize on this.

 

As for sets, Shadar Logoth looked great. Like I said earlier, I was fairly disappointed by the sequence, but not because of the city itself. I liked the claustrophobic design of the streets, as well as the grand scale when Rand and Egwene went into the tower. Mashadar was different, perhaps not as menacing as I'd hoped, but I thought it was still pretty cool. I LOVED a lot of the mountain and valley shots. Especially the one foreshadowing the Breaking. The areas they are shooting in were very well chosen. The Two Rivers town (Emond's Field) looked great, if a little too advanced. I missed the thatched roofs (poor Cenn Buie) of the non-inn buildings, but the inn itself felt spot on, and the general homey feeling was good.

 

 

Other Technical Stuff

 

While not always amazing, some of the cinematography is excellent. The wide shots are often glorious. The action shots aren't quite as good. Some of the transitions were a bit bold, not sure how I feel on them (such as the blood into the muddy pool fading to the tree line).

 

I am very glad the show isn't constantly hidden in darkness, which is what many shows/movies do to save budget. However, this is a double edged sword as it does make the show look a bit cheap, which is crazy to me given the show's budget. I suspect much of that may have been put towards the Blight, the Ways, and Tarwin's Gap, so I will reserve judgement. I also realize, that the startup costs of a first season are often more than subsequent ones, and they'll probably be able to dedicate money more effectively in later seasons.

 

The score is good. It is definitely not on the level of Lord of the Rings or Star Wars, but it's immersive. I always say, if you can't have a truly great score that sticks out, then at least don't make it distracting! I like the intro theme quite a lot, and the two songs we've gotten are both lovely.

 

 

What's Missing

 

This is what really hurt the show so far for me. I respect those that feel differently, but for me, the thing that is missing to me is a general Wheel of Time feel. It's intangible and very difficult to get across in words, as the Wheel of Time feel for me is something that encompasses a huge range of aspects from the books. The humor, the subtlety of the dialogue, the cultural expressions and fashion, the meticulous design of scene settings, the occasional jab of horror, and a lot more. Many of these things feel under-represented or absent thus far.

 

Here is an example that I think will get across what I'm on about. You hear Mat saying "shite" and Egwene calling Rand a "stubborn bastard". These phrases take the place of book Mat's preferred "blood and bloody ashes!" and book Egwene's preferred "wool-head". This may seem like a very small change, because it is, but when you aggregate a lot of these minor differences, the sum total starts to feel significantly different from the original.

 

Now, I fully recognize that some people want the TV series to feel significantly different from the books. I am not one of those people. I don't mind a decent number of differences. I am not unreasonable. I do not expect everything to be book accurate. Cut out Baerlon? That's a shame, but I can live with it. However, small changes like the one I just described are one's that feel completely unnecessary, and rob the world of it's own unique flavor that will set it apart from the myriad of other fantasy series.

 

This is by no means the final word on this though. As I stated earlier, the third episode was where things are starting to look up for me. Ironically, almost all of that episode wasn't from the books, but the feel was definitely getting closer to what I was hoping for. There was a bit more humor that felt right. The classic unexpected darkfriend when Dana had her turn as I discussed earlier. Things like this give me hope. Now that the shock of the beginning is over, perhaps the series will grow into what I hope it can be.

 

Still, "Hope is like a piece of string when you're drowning. It just isn't enough to get you out by itself." So I will remain vigilant as well. If the show never truly delivers for me, then I will always have the books. That was enough before there ever was a TV show, and it will always be enough.

 

 

If you read all that I commend you and thank you for your time. Please have a nice day. ?

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I am in the less than liked it camp.  I think I have read this series 10 or more times.  The changes to the main character back stories totally ruined it for me.  To me, that does not let them develop into the men they eventually become.  Bode is way too young in the 1st episode if the Aes Sedai are to come back to recruit girls.  What about Elyas and Bayle Domon?  I can see writing Elyas out and teaching Perrin the way of the wolves another way (the wolves themselves perhaps).  But I think we need Capt. Domon.  What about Min?  They missed going to Baerlon.  I can only hope they find a good way to introduce her.

 

I think if you had never read the books the show would be better.  But I agree with others, the special effects are very lack luster, even compared to LOTR.

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I thought it funny that there is/was all this mystery about who the Dragon is, making major changes to the story, background etc to have this great season long mystery, and my wife who has never read the books, says it's ***** and she knows this during the Moiranes Winespring Inn scene.  So much for really keeping the mystery and hooking non readers.  Everyone knows just like in the books, so why all the stupid convoluted revisions?!?

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2 minutes ago, jeffreycwagner said:

I thought it funny that there is/was all this mystery about who the Dragon is, making major changes to the story, background etc to have this great season long mystery, and my wife who has never read the books, says it's ***** and she knows this during the Moiranes Winespring Inn scene.  So much for really keeping the mystery and hooking non readers.  Everyone knows just like in the books, so why all the stupid convoluted revisions?!?

Checking my friend group...they're all leaning towards it being Egwene or Mat. 

 

My wife things it's Perrin. 
 

?

 

It's working better than you would believe. Check Reddit. 

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Not going to be too nit picky although I have read some lengthy comments that I agree with.  I like most of the actors visually but they come across flat.  Some of the sets look like a sound stage.  Scale is just too small.  Some of the decisions made I just don’t understand.  I think WoT books are better than GoT but I have to say GoT series was better from the jump.  A lot of this feels very generic.  Uninspired.  The music is basic.  first episode was WAY too rushed.  Should have made it into two episodes.  Fight sequences are the kind of sloppy choppy fight sequences I don't care for.  So quick you can’t really see much.  Going to continue watching.  Reminding myself this was probably shot, edited, etc. during Covid.  Couldn’t have helped production quality.  Perhaps limited some things.  Currently give it a 5.5 - 6 out of 10.  Really hope it gets better.  This is not a GoT replacement.  It could be but it’s got to get better quickly.  

 

Also the only thing I’m having a HARD time overlooking is cutting out Tam’s fevered talking that begins to plant the seeds of doubt in Rand.  Also…BATS!!???  What the heck?  

Edited by Hudson
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In regards to the Lan/Moraine bath scene:

yes it was completely out of place and confusing for the audience.

yes the whole Lan whinging about the cold does his character a disservice. 
 

I would assume the entire point of that scene was to show Moraine Channelling to heat the water. That and a gratuitous Lan butt shot.
It’s a reminder “she can do magic”.

They may have also thought they were showing some kind of depth to their relationship but in reality that aspect just came across as weird and a little creepy. 

Edited by Starganderfish
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5 hours ago, Cletus McFly said:

I really think they made the boys to old. Messed up the timing, Perrin’s line is all jacked up. Lan and Rand are without honor. Costumes are all incorrect. 
 

Dumpster fire is the term I think I’d apply. And let’s not start on the wokeness……

 

Honestly, I don't think the 'wokeness' is anywhere near as bad as feared.  In fact, I don't think it's really there.

 

There are things that have been changed to make the idea of female control of the world more ubiquitous than it is in the books, but I think that is ok. In my view, so far, it is not lecturing or in your face.  The kind of wokeness I can't stand is where a character will launch into some weird misplaced dialogue or the story arc will take a timeout to give some moral message that is so obvious it's cringeworthy. I am not seeing that here.

 

We're actually also getting some things that are frowned upon these days. For example, Mat's 'that's what she said' moment when he joked with Rand about taking turns on the dark fried barmaid/owner is the kind of humour that is a very typical of young lads but is something that gets shunned these days.

 

  

 

 

 

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They really did get the feel of the series right, which was a positive surprise (my expectations were fairly low).

The changes make it fresh even for those who read the books.

There are so many little things which reference the books that I absolutely loved.

My only complaint is pacing, they had to pack a LOT into these episodes (especially the first one) - but I recognize this as a necessary evil, and I prefer a fast pace to a watered-down version.

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Lan was definitely not 'whinging' about the bath's temperature. He was clearly teasing Moiraine. That's how I read it. Get off his case. He's already not Geralt. (I love the series Lan; I think he is as close as he could get to the Lan in my mind.)

 

Yes. I loved it. I have been reading the series since it came out, I have read the first three books repeatedly and the others at leasst once (except for the Sanderson ones). I have a clear idea of a lof of things of this world and its characters and I never expected a carbon  copy of my theatre of the mind to TV.

 

And yet it came fracking close.

 

I was not impressed by the first onscreen battle, as there was too much camera-swinging. I get it: they want the audience to not see too much so everyone gets scared and confused of the monsters. But if they keep this up I will have to battle my motion sickness. That, or I can hope to get used to it. But I did like the frantic mess and showing how the town was overrun but they somehow still found ways to defend themselves. Showing that it was a fight that was hard won.

 

I really whis Moiraine was shorter, but that is about the onluy complaint I have. I loved how they showed wielding the power as such a physical act, with Lan dancing around.

 

My guy, non-reader (he DID read EotW, but forgot all of it...), also liked it and has not walked away during the episodes. I can't ask him anything about anything in the show, because he keeps thinking it will contain a spoiler. So I am happy to have you all over here. /me hugs you all.

 

I did say I would not binge. So we watched one episode on Friday. And then the next episode just now. And I will probably make a case for watching episode 3 tomorrow. But I really want time between these dense episodes. I see the choices they made and I am happy with the pace, the story telling and picking up the little Dutch accents that Rand has. (Yes. The only Dutch actor that almost got away with hiding his Dutch was Rutger Hauer.)

 

 

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I'm in the 7-8/10 category. It's not wowing me like Game of Thrones did when I first watched it but it's ok. The first impression is a little bit "flat" as a whole (hence the 7/10) but there are small moments that reach into the 8+ category. Granted, a part of why I'm optimistic is that I love the books and know there's a lot of potential in the story, and I want to see how it's brought to screen. Difficult to say of course, but if I was a non book reader I'd probably be a bit more hesitant about continuing with the show. I'd watch but more from a sense of duty and giving it a chance rather than being hooked by the first episodes. 

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On a different forum I frequent there is a thread dedicated to the WOT books, and the reaction there has been pretty positive. 7 or 8 out of 10. When the show was announced they immediately thought it would be terrible. I think the bar for their expectations was on the floor. They didn't follow production news too closely, though they did share some basic news on casting. But so far they're all pleasantly surprised.

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I watched the second episode and I certainly like it much more than the first episode, I’m at about 50/50 on this show. Shadar Logoth looked great, Mashadar not so much. But 1 thing is bugging me, why have they not mentioned the two halves of the One Power? Did I miss this, they’re not gonna change this aspect right?

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6 minutes ago, Still Trench said:

I watched the second episode and I certainly like it much more than the first episode, I’m at about 50/50 on this show. Shadar Logoth looked great, Mashadar not so much. But 1 thing is bugging me, why have they not mentioned the two halves of the One Power? Did I miss this, they’re not gonna change this aspect right?

 

Saidin and Saidar have been mentioned by both Pike and Judkins in very recent interviews. It's mentioned in the trivia for the show under its bonus features. And one of the upcoming lore shorts for the show is titled "Saidin, Saidar, Stone." So it will be in the show. They just seem to be easing people who haven't read the books into the lore slowly.

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It's crazy to see the review swings both on here and IMDB. You'll see one review thats a  9/10 or 10/10 and they say LOVED IT! and the very next review is 1/10 with HATED IT. It just goes to show the passion for the books and the series as a whole.

 

Listen folks, i'm not sure what you all were expecting. At the end of the day this is just a tv series that requires a LOT of cg/special effects so the budget is absolutely appalling for any studio to produce. In my mind they did a very good job overall so far, and although there's some inconsistencies in the story, I feel a lot of people read way way too into this stuff. Just sit back and enjoy the series.

 

The biggest concern I have is if there's enough bashing, let me tell you something. Amazon gives zero shits, they will just cancel the series and it will be done. I think as a community we need to recognize this is most certainly good enough to enjoy, and we should be supportive of what they are making. My wife who's a non-book reader loves it so far, so I think overall we're in good shape as a whole.

 

Anyway, I get all your passion, and its easy to nit pick certain things in the series (like the dragon can be a man or woman....WHAT?!?!?!?), but pfft, just enjoy the fact that you get to watch your childhood series come to life in your lifetime. I know I am!

 

Personally, i'm about a 8/10 so far. It's far from perfect, but SO COOL to see this come to life! ?

 

Thanks! Dont take this the wrong way, not bashing your views if you are negative on it. I just recommend you keep your negativity to the boards, and publicly keep supporting the series. It's the only shot we have because noone is going to re-do this in our lifetime, that I can promise.

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First time poster/long time lurker her giving my two cents. Read the EotW for the first time almost 20 years ago (heck, Im feeling old lol). Over the years I have become fairly cynical when it comes to tv/movie adaptations of books I love and feel invested in. So, with that in mind, I did not have great expectations for the WoT series. I can’t honestly say that I was disappointed with the 3 episodes I have seen so far. However I can’t say liked them either.

 

I liked the visuals, the settings and costumes. I liked the practical effects of the trollocs.

 

The  changes to Mat I found myself liking, surprisingly enough. It gave him some nice depth. Him caring for his siblings was sweet. The Perrin changes on the other hand felt very weird and unmotivated in my opinion.

 

The pacing I am ok with. Adapting the massive WoT story is understandably an equally massive challenge when it comes to fitting the plot into a limited number of episodes.

 

The music I relly liked.

 

The world in the series feels really small. I can not put the finger on why exactly though. 

 

I do think that the acting overall was poor with a few exceptions. To be fair, the lines they had to work with were not the strongest. Out of the young ones I liked Mat and Rand the best. Nynaeve at first felt very forced and thin as a character. But she grew on me. Perrin and Egwene I was actually excited for beforehand, but their performances were mostly awful. It was the other way with Lan for me. I did not expect the actor to be as good as he was. Eamon Valda and Fain: loved them!

 

The combination of bad acting and a weak script in a fantasy setting can in my opinion result in scenes that comes across as parody sketches. One great example of this is the first scene, with the entrance of Moiraine and Lan at the inn. In theory a pretty cool scene, in practice: not so much. Another example were I found myself laughing out loud is the whole ordeal with Mat and Rand being chased by Dana (a character and actress I liked). They ran with such an unmotivated urgency and terror, that one might have thought they were running from the Dark One himself.

 

With that said, I will certainly give it a full season before I give up on the series. It is still early and things might improve.  And I do want to add that I am genuinely happy and excited for the people who enjoy the series so far! For your sake I hope you get to enjoy many more seasons. Each to their own.

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6 minutes ago, Apsalar said:

The world in the series feels really small. I can not put the finger on why exactly though. 

I think it's at least partly due to the fact the group travels from Two Rivers to Shadar Logoth and Breen's Spring in just a couple of episodes. I'm not sure on the scale of the map but shouldn't that take weeks of traveling even on horseback? We also don't see any other major towns/cities so feels a bit empty. I'm sure it will get better in the next few episodes.

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13 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

I think it's at least partly due to the fact the group travels from Two Rivers to Shadar Logoth and Breen's Spring in just a couple of episodes. I'm not sure on the scale of the map but shouldn't that take weeks of traveling even on horseback? We also don't see any other major towns/cities so feels a bit empty. I'm sure it will get better in the next few episodes.

 

The Explore timeline in Prime Video shows it's been 11 days between Taren Ferry and Shadar Logoth. Four days after arriving in SL until Egwene and Perrin meet the Tinkers. Seven days after arriving in SL that Rand and Mat meet Thom. 14 days after arriving in SL that Moiraine, Lan, and Nynaeve arrive at the Aes Sedai camp.

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2 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

The Explore timeline in Prime Video shows it's been 11 days between Taren Ferry and Shadar Logoth. Four days after arriving in SL until Egwene and Perrin meet the Tinkers. Seven days after arriving in SL that Rand and Mat meet Thom. 14 days after arriving in SL that Moiraine, Lan, and Nynaeve arrive at the Aes Sedai camp.

Thanks, I didn't realise the timeline is so precise. So about a month of traveling? Not so bad after all

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42 minutes ago, Xanth said:

It's crazy to see the review swings both on here and IMDB. You'll see one review thats a  9/10 or 10/10 and they say LOVED IT! and the very next review is 1/10 with HATED IT. It just goes to show the passion for the books and the series as a whole.

I noticed this on the Rotten Tomatoes audience score, which ironically balances out at around 80% overall, which is where I think the show after episode 3 is at right now.

 

Is it Friday yet?

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