Will the show be good? Our hopes and concerns

[Gothic Flame]

On 11/16/2021 at 1:45 PM, AdamA said:

Honestly, the only way I can see really doing this story true justice within the confines of physics and banking is to do it as a cartoon.

It certainly would likely be cheaper, assuming this is costing Amazon 10mil per episode for 8 episodes. 

Reactions from some acquaintances of mine viewing the first 3 episodes don't seem very enthusiastic. Give it another season before the idea of throwing that money into the lotr series gets into Amazon's head.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Gothic Flame
Correcting figure

[Water and shade]

Brandon Sanderson said it best paraphrasing but you think you want a shot for shot remake but you dont its not feasible and if they tried it would feel empty. RJ had a vision for the series and he gave it to us through the books. We will always have the books I am currently listening to the new eotw audiobook. This will probably be the 8th or 9th time I have read or listened to it, not the whole series mind you i have only made it through all the way 3 times. I say this to point out you always have the books the show offers a new take on the material while sticking true to the themes and general feel of the series. If you don't like it though you always have the largest and deepest literary world to dive into. Totally get if some don't enjoy it i have friends who really didn't like the books. I will say some of the harsher responses seem to have had a strong feeling of negativity going in and that's fine but It seems to unfair to say it doesn't remain true in spirit to the books at least so far. I will say I didnt love a few changes I felt like the end of the first episode cut a few important scenes but i understand the majority of them as fleshing out motivations for characters that don't have the screen time to portray. 

[Apoc81]

I've enjoyed the show, but im not overjoyed with it. I really didn't like Mat, so I'm actually happy he's being recasted.

 

I don't like that they went with Perrin being married, and the way they resolved it, I just don't know. 

 

Trollocs looked incredible, but moved extremely awkwardly in close ups.

 

I don't love how channeling looks. 

 

Overall though, I liked it. Its not amazing, but it's good. I'mhopeful for the rest of the season, and so far the pacing is good, which was a huge worry for me.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Apoc81

[Apoc81]

On 11/16/2021 at 1:26 PM, Gothic Flame said:

Omg yes. 

Factor in the additional scrutiny the TV show will receive by a new readership.

I myself will wait until a proper TV series is done. Not some some shiny flashy thing. EotW in a different medium...

If this fails, you'll absolutely never get what you want. Nobody is going to spend money to remake a failed fantasy series, and Amazon has the rights for at least a decade. 

 

This is what we're getting. Nothing else.

[Gothic Flame]

47 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

If this fails, you'll absolutely never get what you want. Nobody is going to spend money to remake a failed fantasy series

It took several attempts to get lotr right, or at least good enough.

But you're probably right. The timeframe is different. Most Production companies seem demand a quick success today.

 

Reading through some spoilers and seeing how crude the script is ugh

[king of nowhere]

1 hour ago, Gothic Flame said:

It took several attempts to get lotr right, or at least good enough.

 

not sure what you mean. as far as i'm aware, there was one and only attempt to make lotr into a movie.

ok, i heard of some stuff before, like a cartoon or a comic or something like that. but it's not the same thing.

 

and the kind of commitment it takes to adapt something like wot is incredible. this is not yet another superman movie. you make wot, you declare you want to make a lot of seasons.

i will watch the show myself in a couple hour, i can't judge yet, but if this fails, i don't think we'll get another attempt. not within a generation.

[DojoToad]

2 hours ago, Apoc81 said:

If this fails, you'll absolutely never get what you want. Nobody is going to spend money to remake a failed fantasy series, and Amazon has the rights for at least a decade. 

 

This is what we're getting. Nothing else.

I've watched all 3 episodes once - and right now I don't know if I want anymore.  I'll give it another episode or two for it to turn around for me personally.  If I'm done and there is nothing else for 10 years+, I'm okay with it.  Look how long it took for them to get Dune right.

 

I still want to love the show and hope I can.  But if not, I still have the books and that is good enough.  I'm not settling for something I don't love just because there is nothing else.

[Apoc81]

1 hour ago, Gothic Flame said:

It took several attempts to get lotr right, or at least good enough.

But you're probably right. The timeframe is different. Most Production companies seem demand a quick success today.

 

Reading through some spoilers and seeing how crude the script is ugh

No, it did not take multiple attempts to get LotR right.

[Gothic Flame]

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

not sure what you mean. as far as i'm aware, there was one and only attempt to make lotr into a movie.

ok, i heard of some stuff before, like a cartoon or a comic or something like that. but it's not the same thing.

Ya.. You had to be there for the Rankin-Bass attempt. Part cartoon, part something else. But there were some that insisted it was good enough. (Local university had weekend showings for a year)

[SinisterDeath]

Reminder: Stay on topic.
If you want to discuss what LOTR got wrong, start a new thread, preferably in General Discussion .

[king of nowhere]

well, having seen the three episodes, i am now confident that the rest will be better.

 

wot is a big, big story in a big, big world. you can't convey that in the first episode. but you have to convey enough to keep watchers hooked. the result wasn't great, but i have no idea how it could be improved. Starting wot is always going to be difficult. the book start was difficult too.

but with more episodes coming out, the world and story are being fleshed more and more. I liked each episode more than the previous one.

[DojoToad]

3 minutes ago, NightWolf said:

They did? I'm trying to recall when that was done.

I think so.  About a month ago...

[enigmoxical]

Well Folks, sorry to say, but I won't be able to stomach watching the rest of this mess. I was REALLY looking forward to it! IMO, they've taken "poetic license" way too far. I believe that Jim would be disgusted with how they raped his work in order to make his world (which he created) fit into "their world." There is practically nothing that lines up with the foundations established in EOTW. Even having read the series about ten times, it was hard to follow. The "special effects" are horrible. I may be wrong, but I'm under the impression that one of the directors for the (awful) Shannara series was involved. If so, that would explain a lot. So, I won't be watching the rest of this utter mess of a production. I give it a 1/2 star out of ten. Yes, that bad.

[Maximillion]

9 minutes ago, enigmoxical said:

Well Folks, sorry to say, but I won't be able to stomach watching the rest of this mess. I was REALLY looking forward to it! IMO, they've taken "poetic license" way too far. I believe that Jim would be disgusted with how they raped his work in order to make his world (which he created) fit into "their world." There is practically nothing that lines up with the foundations established in EOTW. Even having read the series about ten times, it was hard to follow. The "special effects" are horrible. I may be wrong, but I'm under the impression that one of the directors for the (awful) Shannara series was involved. If so, that would explain a lot. So, I won't be watching the rest of this utter mess of a production. I give it a 1/2 star out of ten. Yes, that bad.

 

 

A bit harsh, but unfortunately chickens are coming home to roost for Rafe. IMO, there are too many who feel like you for the show to be a success and get past what has already been produced or green lit for production.  I think that is three series and out.  The most depressing think about that is they will probably try and rush series 3 even more and try and wrap some kind of story.

As soon as it was clear Rafe was going to make Egwene Ta'veren and a DR candidate the show was so fundamentally changed from the books and it was bound to have many book readers left unimpressed and more sensitive to any further changes.

It was a stupid decision and I really don't know why he thought it would be acceptable.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Maximillion

[Gothic Flame]

What did they do to Abell Cauthon? He was supposed to be a pretty decent guy.

[TheDreadReader]

1 hour ago, Gothic Flame said:

What did they do to Abell Cauthon? He was supposed to be a pretty decent guy.

 

Perhaps, they set up a redemption arc for him to be a guy who has learned some lessons in the future.

 

[divica]

On 11/19/2021 at 3:52 PM, DojoToad said:

I've watched all 3 episodes once - and right now I don't know if I want anymore.  I'll give it another episode or two for it to turn around for me personally.  If I'm done and there is nothing else for 10 years+, I'm okay with it.  Look how long it took for them to get Dune right.

 

I still want to love the show and hope I can.  But if not, I still have the books and that is good enough.  I'm not settling for something I don't love just because there is nothing else.

I think the major problems of the show come from the first episode that should have been much longer in order to better introduce the characters and the sillyness of presenting the dragon as the saviour and the reason why the FOUR are being hunted from the beguining.

 

This was terrible storytelling. If going forward they are more loyal to the books and less creative then the story should be better. Otherwise we will get some dude's interpretation of wot and I doubt it will be a sucess. I have serious doubts it is sucessfull at the moment... 

[AuntMean67]

I liked how Robert Jordan showed us the realities of the world in that every culture had their traits and prejudices but how in the end, all could come together for a greater cause and the prejudices would become a thing of the past.   I'm worried that this will be diminished due to the complete mix of nationalities in every village.   The very differences in cultures  in the books were what helped make the enormity of them gathering to fight the dark so rich and full of emotions. 

[Gothic Flame]

16 hours ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

Perhaps, they set up a redemption arc for him to be a guy who has learned some lessons in the future.

 

I'm guessing he isn't the only one that needs redemption.

As someone said to me (paraphrasing);

"Perrin chilldrinking with his bromies while his new wife toils at the forge? Who is this and what have you done with the almost annoyingly protective Perrin? And then he randomly axes her by mistake, how did someone read Perrin's arc and think that would nail it on the silver screen?"

[TheDreadReader]

27 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

I'm guessing he isn't the only one that needs redemption.

As someone said to me (paraphrasing);

"Perrin chilldrinking with his bromies while his new wife toils at the forge? Who is this and what have you done with the almost annoyingly protective Perrin? And then he randomly axes her by mistake, how did someone read Perrin's arc and think that would nail it on the silver screen?"

 

Character development is fundamentally driven by conflict and that response means that the writers did their job.

 

 

[Gothic Flame]

43 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

Character development is fundamentally driven by conflict and that response means that the writers did their job.

 

 

It sounds to me that the writers never once read the source material. 

[TheDreadReader]

4 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

It sounds to me that the writers never once read the source material. 

 

They don't actually have to.  Rafe has read the source material, he mapped out the overall story.  Sarah fills in a lot of the details. And, the screen writers adapt the material.   That is how tv works.

 

As it is, Perrin has no deep internal character conflict in the first few books so they added some in.

 

Personally, I would have done it differently.  But, it is a pretty standard writing thing.

 

 

[Gothic Flame]

7 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

As it is, Perrin has no deep internal character conflict in the first few books so they added some in.

You're joking right?

Or his eyes turning color, and wolves talking to him, and worried that he might be labeled a "dark friend" wasn't enough to mess him up? Which was in the first book.

[Elder_Haman]

16 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

You're joking right?

Or his eyes turning color, and wolves talking to him, and worried that he might be labeled a "dark friend" wasn't enough to mess him up? Which was in the first book.

How would you communicate these things effectively in a visual medium? How do you communicate his fear of being a bull in a China shop correctly? 

[TheDreadReader]

32 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

You're joking right?

Or his eyes turning color, and wolves talking to him, and worried that he might be labeled a "dark friend" wasn't enough to mess him up? Which was in the first book.

 

Those are elements of his plot/story conflict.  Are they conflicts?  Yes.  But, they don't speak to the deeper internal reasons for why he reacts the way he does.   The changes to Perrin are set up as a foundation for the hammer vs axe questions later on in the story.

 

Personally, I wouldn't have gone down the fridging road and I don't really approve of it but I can understand why they did.