full book spoilers Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers)

[Harad the White]

Just now, Mailman said:

Come on dude. What you are saying makes zero sense.

More details please.

[Harad the White]

2nd try: who was the guy who was running with the first FD, and then poofed.

[Tim]

15 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

I don't actually get where they're going with Mat. With his and Perrin's changed backstories it seems more likely that Mat would want to return to the Two Rivers for his sisters sake whilst Perrin now has a very good reason to move on and not return.

 

So now I'm wondering how they write themselves out of the corner they put themselves in, because it's kind of hard to believe that this Mat wouldn't return for his sisters if the Two Rivers was in danger.

I was wondering about this as well. It occurred to me that maybe it will be framed as Perrin feeling this sense of obligation to "make right" what happened on Wintersnight (not to mention that in the books part of Perrin's desire to return is the belief that the Whitecloaks are hunting for him - which may still make sense given what we know of the next few episodes).

 

If I remember correctly, Mat wanted to return to the Two Rivers with Perrin but - due to the ta'veren effects tying him to Rand - couldn't say the words aloud (Mat's doomed attempts to try to get away from Rand becoming a bit of a theme for a while there) - and then the snakes told him he had to go to Rhuidean. 

I guess it would be straightforward enough to make that conflict a bit more agonising for him.

 

 

[Kudzu]

4 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

2nd try: who was the guy who was running with the first FD, and then poofed.

 

He was a figment of the other guys imagination, due to Saidin channeling madness. He disappeared when Liandrin pointed out no-one else was there. Also, no reason to believe he was a False Dragon rather than just a channeler.

[Mailman]

On 11/23/2021 at 12:15 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

ok people are latching onto all the changes and focussing on things that don't matter. Moraine declaring she is Aes Sedai doesn't really affect things and it is a small thing that hurries the story along. 

Tam needing Rands help to kill the trolloc, he fights well but again that didnt upset me, it makes the scene tense and adds a sense of drama. 

 

Egwene and Rand having sex, this is obviously not the first time for them, and it makes alot of sense. My one major criticism and frustration of the books is how 20 odd year old men can be so useless round women, when I read the books the first time I was 16 and had a girlfriend. This does not break the series, it makes it more realistic and i think if Robert Jordan was writing the series now he would have taken a similar path. 

 

Matt a Thief, he steals from the body after taking the knife, there is a suggestion that before the bracelet was given to him, or possibly won in private. If it was Stolen in a small village he would be caught easily. 

 

Moraine and Lan bathing together, why is this such an issue, they travel together, fight together, a man and women can get in a bath together and have it not be sexual, it was a non issue for me and, on one scene, showed they are close while not showing anything romantic. 

 

Emonds Field looks about how I imagined it, a village on the edge of the world, as someone who does Roleplay this meets how I see a village like this matching the standard layout of this. 

 

Thom has always been a little edgy, and he isn't a thief, he pickpockets the pickpocket and then keeps the coin as a lesson to Matt, if Matt had been less rude than he may have returned it. Later on he gives it back to Matt, or at least goes to before seeing Matt has already lifted it. I find nothing wrong with this exchange. 

 

Now the other points you make, yes I have issues, any one of these would be an ok shift. Perrin killing someone in the forge is a great moment to show his bloodlust, and feed into his desire to never kill again. Especially if, as I suspect, they will not be showing him killing the Whitecloaks. But giving him a wife to do this was unnecessary, he could have killed any other made up character and got the same effect. 

 

Matts father and Mother and their issues. I can see how it works, it gives Matt a clear reason to want to go hime, to not want to be involved in the whole hero process. Throughout the books, of the 3 boys he is the one who is trying to get out of his destiny, giving him a constant storyline of wanting to get home for his sisters gives him that driver that the casual viewer can understand. Now if they decide to send Matts father on a redemption arc, appearing later in the series a changed man and his mother much better for it, then maybe it is a good story but It really doesn't add anything to the original idea, it doesn't make him more compelling and the same drive for Matt could have come about simply by having his family living on the breadline struggling to get by and reliant on him helping them out. 

 

Nynaeve, I was really frustrated and confused by both her capture (no effort was made in the first episode to make her a character the casual fan would care about), and then how she suddenly displayed martial fighting abilities and was able to kill the Trolloc. I can only assume it will be explained later that her anger in that moment allowed her to have some sort of strength or power and that is how she did it. As for Tracking Lan and Morraine, she isn't really tracking them, she is following the traces of a marauding trolloc horde, that is much easier to follow. Then she reaches Shadar Logath and comes across Lan and Morraine who left the city the way they came in, so easier to spot and track. Sneaking up on him, I was less happy with. 

 

Mordeth, I have had people claim there is a shadow figure in scene for a second that leads Matt to the Dagger, but I agree not at all obvious enough. 

 

I also think Padin Fain should have been shown I know he isnt really involved until the 2nd book but the joy of TV you could show him with the Trollocs and then entering the city. 

 

The Whitecloaks suggesting Aes Sedai Healing, I think this is foreshadowing civil war in the Whitecloaks, i do not anticipate the Whitecloak part of the story following the books much at all, I think of all the things that need pairing back to tell the story they are an aspect that don't really directly tell the main story of Rand getting to the last battle. 

 

 

 

 

In the books Moiraine is more shrewd and capable than in the show so far, she concealed her identity as well as the fact that she was looking for the dragon reborn as both facts make it more likely she will be unwelcome or not trusted, she is clever and resourceful after leaving Emonds Field whereas here she is far more of a injured passenger in the series, hell she could have easily secured the ferryman with a flow of air to stop him drowning.

 

The issue about Tam needing Rands help to kill one trolloc is that you are setting a extremely high bar when Tam a blademaster can not deal with a solo trolloc in comparison to the sword skills in the book. Yet you also have Nynaeve kill one solo.

 

Matt stole the bracelet as Fain reduces the price by asking Matt could he sell it in the village and Matt being unable to say he could.

 

Fain was sprinkled throughout the first book meeting them in Emond Field, Baerlon, he was the beggar in Caemelyn Following them through the ways being captured outside Fal Dara before being questioned by Moiraine in Fal Dara. They may be able to catch up on some of the character but with the speed they are travelling im not hopeful as well as the fact that it would appear he was not consumed/melded with Mordeth as the trollocs never entered the city and Mordeth was not introduced at all.

 

Matt was always the one more keen to ride off and see the world while Perrin and Rand where more keen to return home.

 

Hard to see Valda who was seen with all the rings and burning an Aes Sedai thinking it was ok for even a Captain Commander of the the children to advocate for Aes Sedai healing.

 

I hardly think the boys where ignorant of the birds and the bees in the books especially as they worked on farms. Its more that Emonds Field in the books is a more conservative community on the whole with a strong belief that you did not sleep with others before marriage.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Mailman

[Mailman]

28 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

It was the big mofo Trolloc, twice the size of Lan's mincemeat. General Trolloc thought it was handled. He wasn't counting on Rand being a dirty backstabber.

 

23 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Come on dude. What you are saying makes zero sense.

Okay 

1 It would have been the fade that sent the trollocs not General trolloc.

2 I did not see any massive size difference between the trolloc at the farm and the ones at the village.

3 It still makes zero sense to assume 1 trolloc is enough to deal with 2 humans, and the statement Rand being a dirty backstabber makes no sense as anyone would assume 2 humans would work together against a trolloc.

[Beidomon]

20 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

2nd try: who was the guy who was running with the first FD, and then poofed.

Second guy was Owen. He got away. 

[Kudzu]

10 minutes ago, Mailman said:

In the books Moiraine is more shrewd and capable than in the show so far, she concealed her identity as well as the fact that she was looking for the dragon reborn as both facts make it more likely she will be unwelcome or not trusted, she is clever and resourceful after leaving Emonds Field whereas here she is far more of a injured passenger in the series, hell she could have easily secured the ferryman with a flow of air to stop him drowning.

She didn't conceal that she was an Aes Sedai in Emonds field in the books. She wore here ring openly and used her real name. Lan was also wearing his Warder cloak around.

 

Just because Rand and the other kids didn't realise she was Aes Sedai doesn't mean no-one else did.

 

10 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Fain was sprinkled throughout the first book meeting them in Emond Field, Baerlon, he was the beggar in Caemelyn Following them through the ways being captured outside Fal Dara before being questioned by Moiraine in Fal Dara. They may be able to catch up on some of the character but with the speed they are travelling im not hopeful as well as the fact that it would appear he was not consumed/melded with Mordeth as the trollocs never entered the city and Mordeth was not introduced at all.

 

Pretty sure Fain was the shadow we saw in Shadar Logoth. He was seen whistling as he drove into the Two Rivers and we heard whistling in Shadar Logoth just before we saw the shadow.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Kudzu

[flinn]

27 minutes ago, Kudzu said:

 

He was a figment of the other guys imagination, due to Saidin channeling madness. He disappeared when Liandrin pointed out no-one else was there. Also, no reason to believe he was a False Dragon rather than just a channeler.

 Yep, and we get a glimpse in how they are going to handle Rand's madness and seeing Lews Therin.

[Harad the White]

7 minutes ago, NightWolf said:

did not see any massive size difference between the trolloc at the farm and the ones at the village.

Watch episode 1. The trolloc in the farm towered over Rand, whereas the Trollocs Lan sliced were about the size of Peter Dinklage. And, to be clear, Fades ARE trolloc generals.

[flinn]

3 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Watch episode 1. The trolloc in the farm towered over Rand, whereas the Trollocs Lan sliced were about the size of Peter Dinklage. And, to be clear, Fades ARE trolloc generals.

 Camera angles... Look at Nynaeves trolloc. She was just over waist high.

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, flinn said:

Yep, and we get a glimpse in how they are going to handle Rand's madness and seeing Lews Therin.

Two different answers so far, but "Owein" was right is the guess. The figment side hasn't really bought into this "magic" idea. According to the wiki he is now called Maksim, a strong channeler.he 

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, flinn said:

Camera angles... Look at Nynaeves trolloc. She was just over waist high.

Never knew Nynaeve was the same size as Rand. She IS Wonder Woman!

[Harad the White]

3 minutes ago, NightWolf said:

Wow. That was the quote machine. First, demoted from QB, then misquoted. Sorry, Wolf-meister.

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, NightWolf said:

No worries, I completely understand --- I just wanted it for public record in case I have to stand in front of a jury or plead my case before the guillotine. 

Puts long handle on axe. ?

[Agitel]

Nynaeve got her trolloc by surprise. The one Tam was fighting was fully aware of his (primary) opponent, and Tam might not have held a sword in twenty years. Book Tam might have done differently, but within the confines of the show what happened doesn't show Nynaeve as a greater warrior than Tam.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Agitel

[Harad the White]

4 minutes ago, Agitel said:

Nynaeve got her trolloc by surprise. The

It's not the size of the Trolloc. It's what you do with it.

[Kudzu]

25 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Two different answers so far, but "Owein" was right is the guess. The figment side hasn't really bought into this "magic" idea. According to the wiki he is now called Maksim, a strong channeler.he 

Huh?

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Kudzu said:

Huh?

Q: who was the man?

A1: a figment

A2: Owein

The figment side is trying to explain magic as a mental issue.

[Kudzu]

5 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Q: who was the man?

A1: a figment

A2: Owein

The figment side is trying to explain magic as a mental issue.

Not sure if serious, but...

 

On one side we have a guy who's suffering taint induced madness and is seeing things.

 

On the other side you have a character that dies 10+ years before the show takes place, that is now alive again and is Saidin bros with some other channeler. Based on his dialogue he doesn't actually think he can channel himself but has also figured out invisibility.

 

I'm going with Occam's Razor on this one.

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Kudzu said:

I'm going with Occam's Razor on this one.

Occam's Razor is you don't introduce a character including segments that are not the point of view of the "hallucinator" and then trash-can the character. Bet you 25 electrons that "figment" will be back.

[Kudzu]

4 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Occam's Razor is you don't introduce a character including segments that are not the point of view of the "hallucinator" and then trash-can the character. Bet you 25 electrons that "figment" will be back.

 

Sure, I'll take your electrons.

[AusLeviathan]

5 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Occam's Razor is you don't introduce a character including segments that are not the point of view of the "hallucinator" and then trash-can the character. Bet you 25 electrons that "figment" will be back.

It was a scene added late in production, it wasn't part of the original scripts sent to Sanderson and was likely only added in order to start the show with an action sequence.

 

I'm fairly certain we won't see that character again.

[Harad the White]

2 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

I'm fairly certain we won't see that character again.

I got plenty of electrons.

[Agitel]

3 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

It was a scene added late in production, it wasn't part of the original scripts sent to Sanderson and was likely only added in order to start the show with an action sequence.

 

I'm fairly certain we won't see that character again.

 

I know the "rumors of four ta'veren" line wasn't in the script Sanderson saw. I don't think I saw him say the whole scene was new to him.