full book spoilers Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers)

[Harad the White]

10 hours ago, Mailman said:

• Perrin married then he kills his blacksmith wife.
• Mat is now a thief.
• Abell Cauthon a drunk and a womanizer, his wife a drunk.

Nits of the day, a selection for your amusement.

 

Perrin has a wife whom he kills? Perrin was a mystical blacksmith in the book. In what way does this nit change his story arc? No identifiable way, taking into account the fact that the story has hardly started.

 

Matt is now a thief. Not even a change unless your version of WoT left that part out.

 

Abell Cauthon a womanizer? The only reason to include this is to shape Matt's character. How does this lead to a non-Matt Matt?

 

Let me know if the rest of the nits should be laid to rest in a continuing series.

[Akragard]

9 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Perrin has a wife whom he kills? Perrin was a mystical blacksmith in the book. In what way does this nit change his story arc? No identifiable way, taking into account the fact that the story has hardly started.

The whole book series takes place in a relatively small window of time. Killing your wife would have a deeply emotional impact on your life that would affect future romances. I can see why this bother people.

 

11 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Let me know if the rest of the nits should be laid to rest in a continuing series.

Did I miss the post that declared you the arbiter of correct opinion? Disqualifying opposing viewpoints is the opposite of collegial, which I believe was in response to you complaining.

[flinn]

22 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Nits of the day, a selection for your amusement.

 

Perrin has a wife whom he kills? Perrin was a mystical blacksmith in the book. In what way does this nit change his story arc? No identifiable way, taking into account the fact that the story has hardly started.

 

Matt is now a thief. Not even a change unless your version of WoT left that part out.

 

Abell Cauthon a womanizer? The only reason to include this is to shape Matt's character. How does this lead to a non-Matt Matt?

 

Let me know if the rest of the nits should be laid to rest in a continuing series.

 I can only hope you never experience becoming a widow to see just how out of touch your comment is.

 

 I love you Layla.. oh damn I killed you Layla... oh I love you Faile in a matter of months... please man.

[SinisterDeath]

8 minutes ago, Akragard said:

The whole book series takes place in a relatively small window of time. Killing your wife would have a deeply emotional impact on your life that would affect future romances. I can see why this bother people.

To paraphrase Charlie Sheen from Two and a Half Men "I'm going to drown my sorrows in a waitress". People express grief differently. Some go through stages faster then others.

Perrin skipped straight to depression 

 

Book Perrin was already pretty detached and didn't want anything to do with Faile, until she forced the issue. 

 

Laila's death, justifies the why, better than an than unmarried Perrin, giving a pretty girl the cold shoulder to when she shows interest in him? That's not going to be very believable.

 

Quote

 I can only hope you never experience becoming a widow to see just how out of touch your comment is.

See above.

Grief is different for everyone.

[Akragard]

3 hours ago, Harad the White said:

Not able to "disqualify" so another false nit. Thanks for the supposed power I have, and as always, thanks for the complaint.

Calling other people's opinions trivial or nits is disqualifying in that you are claiming your opinion as correct and theirs not. Opinions can't be correct or incorrect. That's the last I'll say on it, since other opinions don't matter.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Akragard

[Harad the White]

2 minutes ago, flinn said:

I love you Layla.. oh damn I killed you Layla... oh I love you Faile in a matter of months... please man

I am sure the series will give Perrin the proper mourning period. Perrin is a mystical warrior. I see this tragedy as forging his character. I know it did mine.

[Arthellion]

It’s not how I would’ve done it, but the Perrin wife thing easily explains his character in a way that causes viewers to empathize with him rather than be annoyed.

 

Because unlike the books we don’t have access to his thoughts, viewers would be incredibly irritated or in disbelief over his reticence to violence or interact with Faile

[Akragard]

6 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Laila's death, justifies the why, better than an than unmarried Perrin, giving a pretty girl the cold shoulder to when she shows interest in him? That's not going to be very believable.

I'm not saying that it can't be done, just that I can see why it would bother people to have such a change occur to the story.

 

Obviously the writers have a plan and I can see how and why this change occured. I just don't think that people having an issue with it is completely unjustified.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Akragard

[Akragard]

2 minutes ago, Arthellion said:

It’s not how I would’ve done it, but the Perrin wife thing easily explains his character in a way that causes viewers to empathize with him rather than be annoyed.

 

Because unlike the books we don’t have access to his thoughts, viewers would be incredibly irritated or in disbelief over his reticence to violence or interact with Faile.

I had access to his thoughts in the book and his reticence to violence still irritated me sometimes.

[SinisterDeath]

1 minute ago, Akragard said:

I'm not saying that it can't be done, just that I can see why it would bother people to have such a change occur to the story.

 

Obviously the writers have a plan and I can see how and why this change occured. I just don't think that people having an issue with it is completely unjustified.

I personally would have rather seen her disappeared like Nynaeve instead of killed on screen.

 

It would have given Perrin that shred of hope she's still alive + the doubt that she is dead.

 

Would have hand the same effect, minus the guilt of delivering the killing blow.

[Harad the White]

2 minutes ago, Akragard said:

I just don't think that people having an issue with it is completely unjustified.

One can have an issue with anything. If the issue is "it's not in the book," so be it. In LoTR Arwen replaced Glorfindel at the river crossing. Not in the book. Did this ruin the movie for some? Of course it did. Herein we are supposed to be talking about the series with respect to the books. If the criticism, at its base is, "its not in the book," then there is no end to it, since a film with actors and sets is not in the book.

[Harad the White]

3 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

have given Perrin that shred of hope she's still alive + the doubt that she is dead.

Now that would have changed the story, since Perrin would not be free no matter how long before he met Faile.

[Gothic Flame]

11 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

One can have an issue with anything. If the issue is "it's not in the book," so be it. In LoTR Arwen replaced Glorfindel at the river crossing. Not in the book. Did this ruin the movie for some? Of course it did. Herein we are supposed to be talking about the series with respect to the books. If the criticism, at its base is, "its not in the book," then there is no end to it, since a film with actors and sets is not in the book.

Pfft... I see more comparisons made with GoT. The show kept close to the books and fans of the books loved it. Until D&D ran out of books...then the show went to the dogs and fans hated with what followed.

What's Rafe's excuse beyond an arrogant presumption that he can write better? At least he has all the books...

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Gothic Flame said:

The show kept close to the books and fans of the books loved it.

Completely wrong. Those "dire" wolves weren't. 

[Harad the White]

33 minutes ago, Akragard said:

That's the last I'll say on it, since other opinions don't matter.

Fantastic

[Agitel]

19 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

What's Rafe's excuse beyond an arrogant presumption that he can write better? At least he has all the books...

 

You're assuming some very cynical motivations for Rafe. His actual motivation seems to be he has eight seasons for fourteen books, and only eight-episode-long seasons, limited to under 60 minutes each, granted by Amazon, and wanting to give attention to the ensemble in the first season rather than waiting until the second, and reworking scenes to convey essential details and motivations within the constraints while setting up for future seasons since he has the whole series in view, all into an entirely new medium the books were not written for, probably because he does not think he can do so otherwise.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Agitel

[Harad the White]

5 minutes ago, Agitel said:

and wanting to give attention to the ensemble in the first season rather than waiting until the second.

Yes.  What about BS' presumption to finish the book series?  There is no end to it. It's a Circle.

[Elder_Haman]

3 minutes ago, SonOfBattles82 said:

 

Like not allowing posts criticizing the show being changed all in the name of being PC? Cause that sure seems to be happening 

We are deleting low effort posts that add nothing to the conversation other than to say “this show is awful”. If you want to just brigade one star reviews, go do it on Amazon or Facebook. This is a forum for intelligent discussion not poop throwing. 

[Harad the White]

Review: This ‘Wheel of Time’ Goes Nowhere Fast

Amazon’s ambitious fantasy adaptation is bursting with magic and monsters, but it’s no heir to the “Thrones.”

----------New York Times

Here's to the naysayers herein. You're in good company as the "elite" media also pans the series (the article is not as bad as the headline). I, nevertheless, disagree. Notice how "Thrones" is now the benchmark. How many years after WoT wraps before it's the benchmark, for the NYT, and others.

[Harad the White]

Here's a Pittsburgh Union review by Rob Owens:

Wheel of Time is very self-serious, which makes it easy to mock, particularly if you're apt to make comparisons to other fantasy franchises: One screechy villain has Voldemort's nose; an Army of horned beasts are this show's version of Orcs.

-----

I especially like the comment about Voldemort, a series written after WoT.

[MaxZorin]

1 hour ago, Harad the White said:

 

Matt is now a thief. Not even a change unless your version of WoT left that part out.

 

 

I don't remember him robbing a corpse.

 

I think he stole a pie of a windowsill.

 

Pretty much the exact same thing.  

[Elendir]

Lets share my feeling about tv proceeding of our favour novel.

 

I will start with good:

I found music awesome. I listen at this moment to "Aes Sedai" theme because it is place where last (3th) episode left me.
Independently on book, I like how show look so far.
I like also additions to Mat, Perin and Nyn arch.  Their character arcs started development from beginning, so we don't wait for later books and their first POV.
Egwain like 4th Ta'veren is good, because it justify her Mary Sue arc. They also made her lesser brat, or more precisely, I understand her and her behavior now. I didn't like way, she was ready break all bound with home at book so I fond this version better.
I loved end of second episode. Badass Nyn fit her a lot and I look forward for this her characterization.

Bad:
Most of Min scenes are high on my scene list and I liked her teasing Rand at Baerlon. So cutting it, I don't appreciate.
They change nature of a lot of things. The way people think, what the know, how they behave in some situation. I found some change better, but at same time I feel worried about it. However it is too soon make any assessment about it. I will wait for whole series to see bigger picture about it.

[MasterAblar]

10 minutes ago, SonOfBattles82 said:

 

Must be nice getting to police completely legitimate complaints about major changes that are negatively impacting the show. Do you think Robert Jordan would be happy with these changes if he were alive?

 

What is this Twitter where anything not praising far left values gets censored?

 

 

Acting like anyone is being censored is laughable. All kind of opinions, criticism and takes have been posted and discussed. It’s normal for people to get riled up about a series they love.

 

But posts that basically say “This adaptation is complete garbage, it’s a complete betrayal, they ruined everything, hope it dies after 2 seasons” bring literally nothing to the discussion, lack any kind of nuance, and basically qualify as the lowest quality shitposting, and at times straight up trolling. Expecting people to put a minimum amount of effort into their posts is hardly excessive.

[Harad the White]

7 minutes ago, MaxZorin said:

Pretty much the exact same thing.  

I don't remember him starving in the town. Also, don't remember it being a TV series.

[nicki_minajah]

1 hour ago, Harad the White said:

Abell Cauthon a womanizer? The only reason to include this is to shape Matt's character. How does this lead to a non-Matt Matt?

 

For me, the problem with this decision (to give Mat a tragic backstory) is that it (seemingly) anchors Mat to a very simplistic motivation for his actions: to overcome/move beyond/help his tragic family. Mat is a slow-burn character. His complexity is assumed (at least by me) from Book 1--and that assumption is rewarded as his story unfolds. (If anything anchors Mat's character, it's the Two Rivers stubbornness.)

 

And before anyone pops in which 'well you can't expect everything to be exactly like the books.' My complaint is that cheap tropes aren't good storytelling. Period. (Okay, maybe there are some exceptions.) And that they deviate from what makes WOT not just another epic fantasy: rich character development. Deviating from details and plot points is fine with me (to an extent). Deviating from the very thing that makes the series amazing? Less fine.

 

I'll add: I'm still holding off judgment. I haven't seen every episode, after all. But with the information I have, I can say: not a fan of the (apparent) decision to condense character motivations to tropes (Mat)/major life events (Perrin). While these character are, in the books, motivated by a complex Pattern of life experiences/characteristics.