tv show spoilers S1E8: The Eye of the World

[Gary Reborn]

I think Moiraine gave a pretty good warning because basically the course of her life was changed by standing in the room with those two so she wasn’t killed but it wasn’t because Ishamael couldn’t kill her and I thought this was the interesting part is he thought what he did was worse and I kind of agree with him he took the one power from her but if she was stilled she wouldn’t feel it anymore now she feels it always just outside her reach but can’t touch it. Like always being thirsty but never being able to drink water. So I think that was the comment about almost being able to touch it, he could have killed her, stilled her or shielded her and he felt this was worse and went with it and told her why he chose it.

 

The reason I agree with him is Ishamael is commonly looked at as the second most powerful channeler in all of history to the dragon except he also has the full understanding of the AOL and thousands of years of experience so it may actually be easier to heal a stilled person that trying to undo a tied off weave of the second most powerful channeler of all time at the peak of their powers. Basically it may take an end game Rand to get rid of this if she is lucky because of who did it. So I think that was a pretty good warning because everyone that went there except from Rand had their life changed in pretty horrible ways and IMO the only reason Ishy didn’t kill her was that he considered this was worse because she could always feel what she lost.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Gary Reborn

[Sunkiss]

1 hour ago, Gary Reborn said:

I think Moiraine gave a pretty good warning because basically the course of her life was changed by standing in the room with those two so she wasn’t killed but it wasn’t because Ishamael couldn’t kill her and I thought this was the interesting part is he thought what he did was worse and I kind of agree with him he took the one power from her but if she was stilled she wouldn’t feel it anymore now she feels it always just outside her reach but can’t touch it. Like always being thirsty but never being able to drink water. So I think that was the comment about almost being able to touch it, he could have killed her, stilled her or shielded her and he felt this was worse and went with it and told her why he chose it.

 

The reason I agree with him is we know Nyneave can eventually heal stilling but Ishamael is commonly looked at as the second most powerful channeler in all of history to the dragon except he also has the full understanding of the AOL and thousands of years of experience so it may actually be easier to heal a stilled person that trying to undo a tied off weave of the second most powerful channeler of all time at the peak of their powers. Basically it may take an end game Rand to get rid of this if she is lucky or more likely we may see other people that were stilled get healed but this being harder or impossible to get rid of because of who did it. So I think that was a pretty good warning because everyone that went there except from Rand had their life changed in pretty horrible ways and IMO the only reason Ishy didn’t kill her was that he considered this was worse because she could always feel what she lost.

Yes and with this happening so soon what will be her use from here on out. I guess I will have to wait and see. I hate that it happened to her. She was prepared to die, but not to be powerless.

[Sabio]

Another hmm moment was Fain called Rand the Dragon Reborn.  Why is Fain so sure Rand is the Dragon?  

 

Perin also didn't seem overly concerned about Loail laying there bleeding, after Fain leaves he decides to go wander to the balcony and watch the scenery.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Sabio

[Yojimbo]

20 minutes ago, Sabio said:

Another hmm moment was Fain called Rand the Dragon Reborn.  Why is Fain so sure Rand is the Dragon?  

 

Perin also didn't seem overly concerned about Loail laying there bleeding, after Fain leaves he decides to go wander to the balcony and watch the scenery.

Well, he's only known him for like five minutes anyway.  And it's not like he's important or anything.

[Blackbyrd]

4 hours ago, Skipp said:

 

This is a theory of what happened in the book.  The "DO" planted several stories of a threat to the Eye meaning to lure the DR there.  After Rand does what he does in the book they find a shattered seal.  So even in the books this plot line has always been a theory as to why the DO pushed our heroes there.

 

I think it's definitely a legit theory that the Eye was one possible way to cleanse saidin -one of the very few acts the DO really didn't want- and Rand was lured there to get rid of it before he had the experience and possibly do something even more sinister but then Aginor started feeling himself and running his mouth and woke the Dragon who then went and did Dragon things like immolating Aginor, ripping through an army of shadowspawn then smacking down Ba'alzamon 1 vs 1 for good measure

[Skipp]

16 minutes ago, Blackbyrd said:

 

I think it's definitely a legit theory that the Eye was one possible way to cleanse saidin -one of the very few acts the DO really didn't want- and Rand was lured there to get rid of it before he had the experience and possibly do something even more sinister but then Aginor started feeling himself and running his mouth and woke the Dragon who then went and did Dragon things like immolating Aginor, ripping through an army of shadowspawn then smacking down Ba'alzamon 1 vs 1 for good measure

huh, I hadn't thought of that.  That is a fairly solid theory, thanks.

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

7 hours ago, Windigo said:

The death fakeouts are a real problem, it is as if no one is keeping track over the season and each episode is like how do we add drama and show channeling?   Ok kill someone and heal them. 

The mistakes are growing, it is one thing when I see issues with cannon that have been changed,  but when the show is changing the rules and canon of the show it is a big problem.  They really need a show continuity editor. 

Very useful when negotiating contracts for a new season though - the producers open with "ok so we can just go with your character died in the season finale if you get too fresh over your pay and conditions".  Helps prevent the budget spent on actors from running out of control so you can afford a massive and completely unnecessary CGI tidal wave at the end.  ??.

[Wassup]

1 hour ago, Sabio said:

Another hmm moment was Fain called Rand the Dragon Reborn.  Why is Fain so sure Rand is the Dragon?  

 

Perin also didn't seem overly concerned about Loail laying there bleeding, after Fain leaves he decides to go wander to the balcony and watch the scenery.

For Fain and Rand ( in spoilers, just in case)

Spoiler

Fain made several trips to Shayol Ghul where his “essence” was filtered until he could sense the three boys, but Rand he could sense most of all because he was the DR  

As for Perrin and Loial, Perrin just figured Loial was going to take as long to die as it took him to do anything else. ?

[SingleMort]

Something I just wanted to check to see if I'm misremembering the books. But wasn't LTT the leader of the Area Sedai at the time of the breaking. The cold open seemed to show him speaking with the leader but I thought that was him. Kinda confused by that if they changed it I mean what's the point? It doesn't change the outcome.

[Jaysen Gore]

3 minutes ago, SingleMort said:

Something I just wanted to check to see if I'm misremembering the books. But wasn't LTT the leader of the Area Sedai at the time of the breaking. The cold open seemed to show him speaking with the leader but I thought that was him. Kinda confused by that if they changed it I mean what's the point? It doesn't change the outcome.

Because it puts a woman in charge, and shows a man not willing to listen who Breaks the World as a Result.

[Vambram]

1 minute ago, SingleMort said:

Something I just wanted to check to see if I'm misremembering the books. But wasn't LTT the leader of the Area Sedai at the time of the breaking. The cold open seemed to show him speaking with the leader but I thought that was him. Kinda confused by that if they changed it I mean what's the point? It doesn't change the outcome.

 

Yes, LTT was the leader of the Aes Sedai at the time of the breaking in the books. However, the cold open in episode 8 implied that LTT was a co-leader of the Aes Sedai along with TPD. 

[ArrylT]

7 hours ago, NinjaPowers975 said:

 

Yeah, I agree. Nothing is going to piss off book fans more than playing it fast and loose with the magic rules. I get changing the rules---the magic system from the books is probably impossible to translate accurately---but they need tight standards for whatever they go with.

 

From what I've read it seems like Sanderson was helping some with this aspect, but he was cut out of the process on these episodes.

 

He discussed this on the Dusty Wheel - I cannot remember the exact reason but it seemed as though he understood the rationale behind it & between that, his own schedule and covid protocols it was not feasible for him to be able to advise until post production -  I can say that he has received and been advising the show for all the S2 scripts so far.

 

I can also say that from different articles posted recently, Amazon seems very pleased, not just with the success of Season I, but also with the progress of S2 production.     And that the budget for S2 has been increased.   Most of those articles have been posted on the Articles thread but I will share this snippet

 

"In fact, that's where we are with season 2, as Vernon Sanders, Amazon Studios' Head of Global TV, told TVLine: "[Showrunner Rafe Judkins] and his team just sent us their first cuts of the first episodes of season 2, and I cannot wait for the audience to see what we have in store."

 

Anyways Brandon Sanderson looks as, if not more, involved with the show.  We just need to remember he does have his own priorities and schedule - not to mention his own head canon so he cannot be considered the "gatekeeper" for keeping the show perfectly in line with whatever lore & rules each of us may think is vital to be showcase.  Also my sense from the Dusty Wheel show was that he enjoyed the finale - I do not think he thought it was perfect - but that he enjoyed it (and even seems amenable to doing more live reaction videos with TDW for S2).  

 

 

[EmreY]

4 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

How would two more episodes, or ten more episodes, have avoided the massive deviations from the book? By massive deviations, I’m talking things like….

1. DR can be a man or woman.

2. Super Nynaeve saves the day. Again, and again, and again….

3. No Saidar/Saidin.

4. This Lan is super in touch with his feelings and stuff.

5. Rand and Eg having sex. Suian and Mo having sex. Everybody’s getting some! Even Lan and Nyn have sex, out of wedlock (that’s super in-character for Nyn) and we even get a walk of shame with an Egwene “oooh girl” moment. 

6. Let’s make the Eye “the Dark One’s prison” and concoct The Dumbest Plan In History to take a totally untrained DR to face him.

7. Rand figures out he’s the DR through a montage of Min and flashbacks, then tells Mo, and she’s like Ok.

8. Tarwin’s Gap “battle” LOL.

9. Rand struts off into the Blight.

 

I guess I’m just confused by the reasoning that “things would have been closer to the book if they’d had more time.”

 

1. Misdrection. 100% in line with RJ's spirit, if not letter.

2. So that UltimateSuperBeing Rand doesn't become boring, I guess.

3. More time could have explained this.

4. So is Book Lan.  He's quite the romantic.

5. I really don't understand why people are so hung up about the sex.  This is hardly an important storyline in the book, nor is it in the TV series, where people are aged up.

6. Totally agree.

7. I'm sure she asked him a few questions.  I am given to understand that a fair amount goes on unseen to viewers in TV series.  And more time could have explained this.

8. Even more agree.

9. Instead of spending a month moping in Fal Dara and training with the sword?  A loss of great storytelling indeed.

 

[Raezold]

8 hours ago, 7th age said:

 

So what dwn said is only true later on?

 

LOL@myself I just realized how much I missed this theorizing, thx for helping me to come to that conclusion Skipp.

Also, as much as anyone can be disappointed about the show, certainly we can all agree that this bringing loads of people to the books and being able to discuss it with our nonbookie friends is a massive upside. If  I hate every minute of every episode that is to come, that alone makes the production of it worthwhile.

 

Non of my friends are still watching. And they certainly aren't going to read the books now, no matter how much I jump up and down screaming the books aren't so shite as the show.

 

*shrug* Read the series too many times, nothing left to discuss anyway.

[RhienneAgain]

I can't imagine masking and breaking can be confused - in the books at least, the Warder would know when the bond was broken as they would feel their Aes Sedai's death and experience the resultant 'death wish'. If masking the bond protected against this, surely Aes Sedai would just mask the bond in any dangerous scenario and spare their Warders the risk of death?

 

From the scene between Lan and Moiraine at the end of this episode irs clear Lan doesn't experience any emotional anguish as a result of their bond (breaking or not) as he doesn't know Moiraine can't unmask the bond if she's been stilled and their bond has been broken, then where is the emotional impact for Lan they spent a whole episode on Steppin to set up..?

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by RhienneAgain

[RhienneAgain]

14 hours ago, flinn said:

 You cant use book rules for the tv show. The tv show has no rules, it is all plot driven. If it is required to pull the moon into the sun, one of the aes sedai will do it without breaking a sweat.

I totally agree but I think the show has clearly spent a lot of time building up the impact on a Warder of losing their Aes Sedai's bond (hence the Steppin episode) so it would be quite weird for them to have Lan and Moiraine's bond break and there be no emotional pay off, so to speak. 

 

Even if they are planning to have Moiraine have an extended absence later in the series as in the books, I think having the bond masked for ages will lessen the impact of the bond breaking on Lan so it all feels a bit confusing to me, to be honest. I'm not sure what they're going for here.

[RhienneAgain]

13 hours ago, Ralph said:

 

Unless masking and breaking can be confused

 

Do we have any clear mention in the books of how a Warder reacts when his AS is stilled? 

I think when a brown sister gets stilled accidentally experimenting with a ter'angreal her warder dies of shock..?

 

And when Siuan is healed after being stilled her sense of Alric's loss comes back. So maybe if Moiraine is stilled there is no emotional impact on the bond going?

 

I think when the bond is masked during the books the warder is still aware of their Aes Sedai to some extent - just heavily blunted emotions and no sense of direction.

 

Eh, this is more confusing the more I think about it. Who knows what the show writers are going for with Lan's and Moiraine's bond here!? I just hope it makes some semblance of sense!

[Mailman]

3 hours ago, EmreY said:

 

1. Misdrection. 100% in line with RJ's spirit, if not letter.

2. So that UltimateSuperBeing Rand doesn't become boring, I guess.

3. More time could have explained this.

4. So is Book Lan.  He's quite the romantic.

5. I really don't understand why people are so hung up about the sex.  This is hardly an important storyline in the book, nor is it in the TV series, where people are aged up.

6. Totally agree.

7. I'm sure she asked him a few questions.  I am given to understand that a fair amount goes on unseen to viewers in TV series.  And more time could have explained this.

8. Even more agree.

9. Instead of spending a month moping in Fal Dara and training with the sword?  A loss of great storytelling indeed.

 

• 1 Except it completely negates the danger of the taint if the DR is a women.
• 2 Is Nynaeve the reincarnation of the Dragon and fated to save or destroy the world. I'm ok with her having a strong channeling moment but she outshines Moiraine as a channeler across the series she also gets the drop on the greatest fighter in the world.
• 3 But it doesn't
• 4 Underneath a very formal rigid exterior he is. For it be broken down by Nynaeve in minimal screen time is not believable.
• 7 Thats your guess they might have played a game of stones for all we know.
• 9 Rand has no connection to Moiraine and Lan as he has spent almost zero time with them and now  he left them again.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Mailman

[Scarloc99]

8 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

How would two more episodes, or ten more episodes, have avoided the massive deviations from the book? By massive deviations, I’m talking things like….

1. DR can be a man or woman.

this has been shown to be an in world thing, not an actual changing to the lore. I have no issues with the Aes Sedai and Morraine being fallible, with the idea that prophecy and “vision” are not clear enough to explain and that maybe enemies like the black ajah have been working against the future return of the dragon. I can see the reveal of the black ajah being more then just their existence, I can see them revealing they also corrupted everything the Aes Sedai think they know. But none of this means the rules of RJs world have changed. 

8 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

2. Super Nynaeve saves the day. Again, and again, and again….

Nyn saved the day once, then she was part of a circle at tarpons gap. 

8 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

3. No Saidar/Saidin.

There is saidar and saidin both words have been used now and it has been made clear both are different. 

8 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

4. This Lan is super in touch with his feelings and stuff.

This is a good character development, as he that matches the Lan of later in the books, book Lan in EOTW is dull, one dimensional and really would not track well on TV. This Lan can now have a duty vs desire internal

struggle. If he hadn’t spent the night with Nyn then Morraine would not have escaped and would not now be shielded. 

8 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

5. Rand and Eg having sex. Suian and Mo having sex. Everybody’s getting some! Even Lan and Nyn have sex, out of wedlock (that’s super in-character for Nyn) and we even get a walk of shame with an Egwene “oooh girl” moment. 
 

Lol RJ’s books where full of sex, have you read them? Not just normal sex, but kinky BDSM sex, orgies, casual sex, paid for sex, yes you faded to black and didn’t get the details generally but enough was there to let you know everyone was at it. 

8 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

6. Let’s make the Eye “the Dark One’s prison” and concoct The Dumbest Plan In History to take a totally untrained DR to face him.

The eye is not the dark ones prison, again, just because a character thinks a thing does not make it fact in world. Morraine thought this was the last battle, she has built up

to this, allowed Rand to leave thinking it was done. Now realistation hits, she really had no idea and why should she. 

8 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

7. Rand figures out he’s the DR through a montage of Min and flashbacks, then tells Mo, and she’s like Ok.

No Rand always knew he just tried to avoid it, or ignore it. Which is how it is in the books for a long time before he embraces his destiny and yes we saw him knock on her door, I imagine there was a conversation but, really does the viewer need to see that not really. 

8 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

8. Tarwin’s Gap “battle” LOL.

Was impacted by Covid restrictions hence you see the soldiers all handily stood 2 m apart, and cgi Trollocs so don’t see a proper fight. As for the Chanelling, ok yes as book readers we can pick all sorts of holes in that scene but really, for the non book reader, the scene works, my wife loved it. When I told her how the book ends, and Rands saves everyone, she told me she would have liked that less because it makes the other characters bit part players. Rand has plenty of time to have his big public reveal. 

8 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

9. Rand struts off into the Blight.

Again yes different to the book but the changes make sense, you have 3 things going on, you tell the stories in the same time and you give your main characters there drive moving forward. 
 

My guess is that in the original script Matt was with Loial and had the knife stolen from him, or faces off with Fain. But now Perrin needs to chase down Fain so that’s his story thread, Rand is heading off into who knows where and will no doubt have interactions with lanfer and find out more about himself. 
 

There are a lot of things I didn’t like about the series, none of your arguments make a lot of sense though. 

8 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

 

I guess I’m just confused by the reasoning that “things would have been closer to the book if they’d had more time.”

Now this I agree with, Rafe has sat down and planned out an entire 8 season story arc, this is very different to how books are created, yes RJ had plans in his head but, with each book, many things changed, stories got added, threads and journeys changed. I imagine there where many many alternatives to the way the story could have gone. So Rafe has decided to move whole chunks of natriative around, decided to create scenes to ensure the non book reader understands things in later seasons. He has taken the view that Amazon will see this thing through rather then having to wrap each season in a bow. As a result non of us can really say if the whole is better or worse then the books until it has been completed. But more time would not have changed this, it would have allowed a bit more time to breathe however. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Sir_Charrid

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, RhienneAgain said:

I can't imagine masking and breaking can be confused - in the books at least, the Warder would know when the bond was broken as they would feel their Aes Sedai's death and experience the resultant 'death wish'. If masking the bond protected against this, surely Aes Sedai would just mask the bond in any dangerous scenario and spare their Warders the risk of death?

 

From the scene between Lan and Moiraine at the end of this episode irs clear Lan doesn't experience any emotional anguish as a result of their bond (breaking or not) as he doesn't know Moiraine can't unmask the bond if she's been stilled and their bond has been broken, then where is the emotional impact for Lan they spent a whole episode on Steppin to set up..?

 

 

Steppin was not about Lan, or it was to show this is different to death. Rafe has said they purposely set things up in season one that will not come to fruition until later, some as late as season 8. Steppin was all about the final battle and Moridins final gambit. The moment that Rand could have destroyed it all. 

[EmreY]

33 minutes ago, Mailman said:

• 1 Except it completely negates the danger of the taint if the DR is a women.
• 2 Is Nynaeve the reincarnation of the Dragon and fated to save or destroy the world. I'm ok with her having a strong channeling moment but she outshines Moiraine as a channeler across the series she also gets the drop on the greatest fighter in the world.
• 3 But it doesn't
• 4 Underneath a very formal rigid exterior he is. For it be broken down by Nynaeve in minimal screen time is not believable.
• 7 Thats your guess they might have played a game of stones for all we know.
• 9 Rand has no connection to Moiraine and Lan as he has spent almost zero time with them and now  he left them again.

 

I see your points, but feel that we have no choice but to have to disagree on this. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by EmreY

[ilovezam]

31 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

This is a good character development, as he that matches the Lan of later in the books, book Lan in EOTW is dull, one dimensional and really would not track well on TV. This Lan can now have a duty vs desire internal

I think to have character growth you do need to start off with a Lan that's a bit more closed off. Even if you wanted to accelerate it, at least give us a few episodes of badass warrior Lan, and then have him soften in more private moments with Nynaeve or Moiraine. His stoicism made his romance with Nynaeve that much more poignant, in that their love softened both characters and they made each other better.

[grayavatar]

Did anyone notice at 11:37 Rand walks a tight circle right behind Ishmael's back (stabbing distance) and Ishmael doesn't turn around immediately. This felt really awkward to watch. It felt like a scene in a soap opera but the area they are standing in is so cramped they have no space to move.

[TheSmurf]

I'm wondering what character development show Lan went through... Skills-wise, he seemed to go backwards, and he fell in love. 

 

Amazing.

[Brytac]

Its crossed my mind they were so focused on diversity they forgot some of the other factors such as continuity or the book character traits etc.

 

Seen so many articles by the actors and the show runner where Diversity has been THE topic they focus on.

 

Diversity isnt a bad thing, dont level that daft thing at me...but I genuinely feel it was something they have latched on to as the most important selling point.   When its gets to that point, its just silly.

 

All imo of course.