tv show spoilers S1E5: Blood Calls Blood

[DojoToad]

8 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Of course but I know they know the books and how adaptations work, way better than me. I'm not going to make hasty conclusions and assumptions based on the first season alone. This is a good build-up for future.

LOL. Guess I’m just one of those hasty humans that make the Ogier so uncomfortable. 

[Terry05]

4 hours ago, RhienneAgain said:

After sleeping on this, I think there's a very good chance Elaida and Liandrin are being merged as others have said, and the same for Alanna and Myrelle.

 

Thinking through the implications, who will draw the supergirls from the Tower?  Will it be one of the Forsaken instead..?  Will most of the BA subplot be switched for just Moghedian acting alone?  I presume Liandrin-Elaida will need to stay in the Tower to do the whole tower-schism and become Amyrlin.  It seems odd, if that's the case, that they didn't call the character Elaida as she would be fulfilling Elaida's role more than Liandrin's...

I also think they are merging Liandrin and Elaida. Kate Fleetwood has been fantastic so far so in that sense I am fine with it. However, the implications you raise are causes for concern.

[FanofKnotai]

6 hours ago, FatManAngreal said:

By all means let me hear your theories around how he's managed to kill so many Aes Sedai? They are the most powerful people on the planet and we literally saw him burn one alive. It was made very clear through the direction of the scene that Valda feels completely safe because they've got no hands, but then states they don't need their hands to channel? It just doesn't stand up.

He explained it’s a crutch. So if you think about it he hasn’t come across one who didn’t have this handicap. Which has made  him feel safe up to this point. Or maybe he has already come across some who haven’t needed their hands and they’ve gotten away and he only captures/tortures/burns the ones who need their hands to channel

[Reader]

2 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Nope, just read through the 1st book, there's 0 mention of Logain seeing Rand, and it's all but stated that he's laughing at the crowd who are clearly scared of him but yell at him as soon as he looks elsewhere.

book 6 spoiler

Spoiler

“You know, I saw a man once who will cause more trouble than I ever did. Maybe it was the Dragon Reborn; I don’t know. It was when they took me through Caemlyn after I was captured. He was far away, but I saw a . . . a glow, and I knew he’d shake the world. Caged as I was, I couldn’t help laughing.”

 

[Hudson]

8 hours ago, bryce0110 said:

I thought giving Lan this emotional scene was a really good way of humanizing him and showcasing the bond of an Aes Sedai and her Warder. It adds a bit of character to a man who is otherwise completely stoic, even if it's a lot different from what we got in the books.
 

But yeah, I do agree the shirt rip was a little bit much. Could've gone without that and the scene would've still had the weight without the weird melodramatic ripping of the shirt.

I don't disagree...making him more human is probably good...but they've almost made him a bro.  Touching, quipping, laughing, hanging out, chillin'.  To be clear I like the actor.  I like all the actors.  Probably the only one I'm a little disappointed in is Rosamund Pike...maybe I expected too much of her but sometimes she just seems "stiff".  Even the way she stands sometimes with her hands kind of artificially spread out...not gesturing....kind of stuck...just seems odd sometimes.  Probably being nitpicky but I think it's probably deserved on an actor of her caliber.

[MasterAblar]

55 minutes ago, Reader said:

book 6 spoiler

  Hide contents

“You know, I saw a man once who will cause more trouble than I ever did. Maybe it was the Dragon Reborn; I don’t know. It was when they took me through Caemlyn after I was captured. He was far away, but I saw a . . . a glow, and I knew he’d shake the world. Caged as I was, I couldn’t help laughing.”

 

 

Yes, but my point is that isn't known in book 1, it's only revealed later on. So the scene in the show is loyal to the books in that sense. The readers and viewers are not aware that Logain is reacting to Rand.

[MasterAblar]

1 hour ago, Hudson said:

I don't disagree...making him more human is probably good...but they've almost made him a bro.  Touching, quipping, laughing, hanging out, chillin'.  To be clear I like the actor.  I like all the actors.  Probably the only one I'm a little disappointed in is Rosamund Pike...maybe I expected too much of her but sometimes she just seems "stiff".  Even the way she stands sometimes with her hands kind of artificially spread out...not gesturing....kind of stuck...just seems odd sometimes.  Probably being nitpicky but I think it's probably deserved on an actor of her caliber.

 

I think part of the issue with Lan, is that in the books we literally only see him around the Two River characters, constantly on the run and only having Moiraine to confide in. In the show he ends up being around other Warders and Aes Seda, somethint that basically isn't shown in the books.

 

Lan in episodes 1-3 was fine. Not great, some small issues, but overall good. Episode 4 and 5 though have taken him out of the setting in which we normally see him and into a different context, and it just seems weird. I could go with that if Lan was just coming across as hypercompetent as he was in the books, or at least further in that direction. As it is he just kinda comes across as a run of the mill Warder.

 

As for Moiraine, I would say there's just a little lack of mystery with her. In the books you're never certain what she's up to. But again now she's around Warders and Aes Sedai. So I feel like bringing the Logain story to the forfront, as much as I loved seeing Logain, has warped the perception of Moiraine and Lan's characters.

Edited December 4, 2021 by MasterAblar

[Gothic Flame]

3 hours ago, RextheDog said:

i understand the opposition to the changes in Lan, im hoping he gets a bit of 'form' back, but making him more Human can theoretically only help the WOT universe

 

ask yourself do you really want the guy to be robotically undefeatable? is that the character you want to see?

But he isn't a robot in the books.

He's more akin to a true leader; difficult to get know because he doesn't let his guard down, emotionally and literally. It takes time to get to know him...time for him to relax around those he first sees as strangers, strangers that need to earn his trust.

[Reader]

9 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Yes, but my point is that isn't known in book 1, it's only revealed later on. So the scene in the show is loyal to the books in that sense. The readers and viewers are not aware that Logain is reacting to Rand.

Yes, you're right. I replied to your post, but it was more a general reply to the Logain laughing topic. I should have made that clear.

[WheelofJuke]

15 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

alas, yes. I'm not fond of how they're making him fail so often.

granted, none of those failures are big.

he fails to protect moiraine, but it was a big fight with many opponents.

He brought the party inside shadar logoth, and apparently he didn't have a plan to survive the night, but he didn't have any better choice

He gets sneaked upon by nynaeve, who goes as close as putting a knife to his throat.

the party of warders make fun of his poor horse training skill

he is almost killed at the battle with logain, though nobody is expecing him to do much in a battle of channelers

he fails to prevent stepin to commit suicide, though he got drugged by his friend.

 

none of those is a problem by itself. but all together, they take lan down too much for comfort.

not enough to ruin my enjoyment, but it's sore spot.

 

By the way, speaking of minor nuisances, while I like the scenery it chafes that we never see any farm or plantation. I mean, the buildings yes, farms with barns and everything. But not actual fields. they aren't growing anything. even tar valon, a huge city, what do they eat? it's all woods around as far as the eye can see. it spoils a bit the atmosphere

 

 

This post just made me realize, NO MANDARB!

[WheelofJuke]

*dramatically rips shirt open at breast*

 

MAN-DAAAAAAARB!!!!!

 

 

[Gothic Flame]

19 minutes ago, WheelofJuke said:

This post just made me realize, NO MANDARB!

I'm sure it's so a certain "Zarine" can use the name. (Don't be surprised)

[themann1086]

Ok I've digested the episode a bit more and I feel like it's hard to really rate it properly. It's a transitional episode that's doing a lot of groundwork laying, so how "good" it is is pretty contingent on how things pay off going forward. I think the episode was competent from a technical standpoint and the acting was, as usual with this group, top notch. We'll see how the various plot choices work out going forward. If they succeed, then this episode becomes better in hindsight. If they don't it makes the episode worse. Literally every review has praised episode 6 (and Sanderson was extremely positive about episode 7) so I'm cautiously optimistic it'll work out. Time will tell!

[thievingsackofpotatoes]

16 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I also hope they flashback all the times Padin Fain has been seen, it is almost too subtle which means non books readers are less likely to see it (my wife didn't pick up on it, partly because it has been 5 episodes since we last saw the character, and that was only briefly). 

I’m holding out hope that we get a Padan Fain “Prologue” that will catch us up on all the places he’s been “whistling” along with some of his back story.

Here’s where I think a Fain prologue could appear. 

Spoiler

I’m convinced he’s gonna to steal the dagger at the end of the next episode which will lead everyone to Fal Dara. Would be a perfect intro to episode 6/7 (although, based on the synopsis I’d bet we actually see the blood snow for Ep 7)

 

[TheMountain]

Spending wayyyy too much time on all this made-up warder stuff when we only have 8 episodes to adapt EotW.

[Maximillion]

especially when you consider the other scenes added and the entire episode to build out Logain. I’d say 40 percent of the time over the 5 episodes has been wasted.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Maximillion

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

2 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

Lan in episodes 1-3 was fine. Not great, some small issues, but overall good. Episode 4 and 5 though have taken him out of the setting in which we normally see him and into a different context, and it just seems weird. I could go with that if Lan was just coming across as hypercompetent as he was in the books, or at least further in that direction. As it is he just kinda comes across as a run of the mill Warder.

 

As for Moiraine, I would say there's just a little lack of mystery with her. In the books you're never certain what she's up to. But again now she's around Warders and Aes Sedai. So I feel like bringing the Logain story to the forfront, as much as I loved seeing Logain, has warped the perception of Moiraine and Lan's characters.

In relation to Lan and Moiraine we know from the books that they have reasons to be reserved around other sisters - not least the one stated in the show that they cannot trust other sisters around a ? reborn as they may gentle him.  More than 1 sister mentions their secrecy (Kerene in E4 and Alannah in E5) - and AS in general are secretive.  

 

Also for Lan's competence there may be some Sean Bean / Ned Stark in it "when I fight a man for real I don't want him to know what I can do".  Certainly when held at knifepoint by Nyneave in E3 he had no difficulty disarming and subduing her, even though he did not expect her to really attack.

 

He would probably know what to do even if attacked by someone with a piece of fresh fruit ?.  

[Harad the White]

9 hours ago, JaimAybara said:

The Tinkers always felt like sanctimonious cowards

Cowards do not stand up for their beliefs in the face of injury and death. Gandhi?

[king of nowhere]

2 hours ago, WheelofJuke said:

This post just made me realize, NO MANDARB!

NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

and btw, who do we ship bela with now?

[Joe B]

7 hours ago, Gothic Flame said:

Maybe he's Asmodean.

Sounds like his style.

That would be an interesting twist! Since I am resigned to the "adaptive" changes, this would be a change I could see them making.

[Bruan]

I noticed another speech that seems to indicate they are abandoning the Saidin/Saidar aspects of the one power and it is men themselves that are cursed rather than the power itself tainted. If I am observing correctly, I wonder how that will play out with the fountain of untainted saidin found at the Eye of the World...

[RextheDog]

4 hours ago, Gothic Flame said:

But he isn't a robot in the books.

He's more akin to a true leader; difficult to get know because he doesn't let his guard down, emotionally and literally. It takes time to get to know him...time for him to relax around those he first sees as strangers, strangers that need to earn his trust.

 

 

book Lan> Show Lan, that i concede.

 

im trying to justify the differences in the character, he's more accessable, and because its an 8 show series his character arc is pushed on a little, if we accept that (i have, not saying others have to) then we can still see the same Lan that we see in the books, we do need to make offscreen assumptions, but thats fine with me 

 

apart from Nyn, who has he let his guard down to of his new found friends though?

[RextheDog]

6 hours ago, dwn said:

Books are not TV shows; TV shows are not books. What works for one medium doesn't necessarily translate well to the other.

 

The Lan of the books is less a character than he is an extension of Moiraine, particularly in TEotW; that simply would not work on screen. You can't just have an actor be stoic and taciturn and expect a viewer to sympathise with or even comprehend him. Even Geralt and Din Djarin showed emotion, depth, and nuance.

 

Were I writing the adaptation I might make different choices, but I would definitely have fleshed out Lan's character in one way or another.

 

 

this is spot on to me.

 

they could also achieved it by fleshing out his character in subsequent series and leave him to be that silent stoic character, that would work, that would build him, but as you say, that would shelve a main character for this season, and they've already half done that with Rand for the purpose of....well, we all know why.....

 

They didnt, so thats that....like a book EF, im just saying nothing can be done about it now so we have to keep going.

 

 

theres so many things they could have done differently, i guess after the fiasco of GOT, im trying my best to see why they did what they did in this show, not wonder why they didnt do what they didnt do....

 

 

 

[Wassup]

Too many pages to this thread, so sorry if I repeat anything. 
 

The chair Egweyne was strapped into by the WC - did anyone notice the blood on the ropes and the grooves in the arms?  It looks like Child Valda was chopping hands off in the chair. 
 

The tinkers linking arms and forming a line makes me think of a story in the books from the breaking of the world where a specific, non-violent group linked arms and sang to a male Aes Sedai taken with madness hoping to turn him with their song and buy time for others to flee. 

[dwn]

3 minutes ago, RextheDog said:

they could also achieved it by fleshing out his character in subsequent series and leave him to be that silent stoic character, that would work, that would build him, but as you say, that would shelve a main character for this season, and they've already half done that with Rand for the purpose of....well, we all know why.....

 

Yeah, there are lots of ways they could have approached it, but it's all a matter of taste and opinion. In a slower-paced series with more drama and less action I might have made both Moiraine and Lan more enigmatic and only revealed their real personalities in scenes when they're alone. What's great for political drama, however, is awful for action-adventure.