tv show spoilers S1E4: The Dragon Reborn

[TheDreadReader]

7 minutes ago, divica said:

You are justifying the show introducing an asspull that had no use with asspulls from the books. How is that a good justification? How is thinking that as the books had the characters doing impossible things then the show can also create situations like these that have no use and everything is fine?

 

Good writting is trying to present the audience a way to explain what happens in the situations you talked about. To create more situations where characters do unexplainable things is just lazy and incompetent.

 

Hell, nyn didn't have a single lesson about using the power to heal! It is ridiculous that she can just to something as amazing as this out of nowhere.

 

Given the way some viewers keep falling for every head and pump fake the show gives them.... I'd say the writers are doing a pretty good job.

 

 

[Gothic Flame]

3 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

From the books:
Rand healed Bela from a distance while running from trollocs, and possibly changed her on a genetic level to actually keep up with the fastest horses in the world.

Rand used wind to knock trollocs off a ship.

 

Rand used lightning to blow up the side of an Inn... all without training or even knowing what he was doing..

 

Nynaeve is documented in the books as being able to heal people even before training, she just had to be especially angry while using her herbs to do it.

Rand is ta'veren...and Lews Therin.

[Agitel]

The scene didn't "do nothing." It showed Nynaeve channeling when angry. It showed that she is an incredibly strong channeler. And, like or not, it kept pushing the question "who is the Dragon Reborn," which is the "big question" for this season they want people speculating on and wanting an answer (which the show will deliver on). Anecdotally it sounds like the non-readers are getting at least a little mileage out of the question, though I'd be interested in some metrics.

[MasterAblar]

Yeah I realize Nyneave had instinctive healing that was this spectacular in the books but there are plenty of moments where character channel instinctively and achieve things despite not having training. Just because this specific exemple didn’t happen in the books doesn’t mean it couldn’t. Like Sinister said Nyneave was already healing before going to the White Tower she just couldn’t control it or do it reliably.

[SinisterDeath]

4 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Rand is ta'veren...and Lews Therin.

Doesn't matter if the argument is that a channeler shouldn't be able to use weaves without training.

 

We have tons of examples of weaves in the books that were used without training, and created on the spot out of need.

[Agitel]

Just now, SinisterDeath said:

Doesn't matter if the argument is that a channeler shouldn't be able to use weaves without training.

 

We have tons of examples of weaves in the books that were used without training, and created on the spot out of need.

 

And plenty of examples are of non-ta'veren.

[Dreamwalker]

9 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Moiraine left with scar on initial healing

I actually thought maybe this wasn't supposed to be a scar but like new pink skin. But I also had another thought-

 

The other healing they have shown, with Logain healing the king of Ghealdan and with Moiraine healing others hasn't shown scars. 

 

But this was a wound from a Trolloc/Fade. Maybe they'll have those be especially nasty and leave a scar - something about thakan'dar blades.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Dreamwalker
Typo

[MasterAblar]

Yes again if you don’t like Rand, you have Aviendha as an exemple creating a gateway without any training. And guess what, it was due to a very powerful emotional response.

[Agitel]

3 minutes ago, Dreamwalker said:

I actually thought maybe this wasn't supposed to be a scar but like new pink skin. But I also had another thought-

 

The other healing they have showed, with Logain healing the king of Ghealdan and with Moiraine healing others hasn't shown scars. 

 

But this was a wound from a Trolloc/Fade. Maybe they'll have those be especially nasty and leave a scar - something about thakan'dar blades.

 

I agree. Plus different levels of skill with the weaves, plus exhaustion, plus power level, plus the episode is basically bookended with two acts of healing which can be contrasted and compared.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Agitel

[divica]

14 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

From the books:
Rand healed Bela from a distance while running from trollocs, and possibly changed her on a genetic level to actually keep up with the fastest horses in the world.

Rand used wind to knock trollocs off a ship.

 

Rand used lightning to blow up the side of an Inn... all without training or even knowing what he was doing..

 

Nynaeve is documented in the books as being able to heal people even before training, she just had to be especially angry while using her herbs to do it.

And all those feats were considered small feats by those present.

 

Here we have logain who is pretty powerfull in awe of her power. 

 

The problem isn't that she healed. The problem is how amazing her healing was.

[Beidomon]

10 hours ago, DojoToad said:

• Why was Aes Sedai camp so far from the cave with Logain?

 

I mean, I wouldn’t put a bomb in the middle of camp, either. 

 

10 hours ago, DojoToad said:

• About 100 people in Logain’s “army”

The remnants of his army. 

[Agitel]

If you want my personal preference, I wish it stuck with hands-on-the-head healing rather than holding hands out at a distance, and no AOE healing, but that's me wanting to stick closer to the book's presentation of how the weaves work. It's not inherently show-world breaking, though.

[CaddySedai]

19 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

Given the way some viewers keep falling for every head and pump fake the show gives them.... I'd say the writers are doing a pretty good job.

 

I mean they even have readers at this point questioning if it is Rand. Granted it comes from a place of fear as opposed to a place of not knowing who it is. 

 

So it iiissss definitely working. lmao

[CaddySedai]

5 minutes ago, Agitel said:

If you want my personal preference, I wish it stuck with hands-on-the-head healing rather than holding hands out at a distance, and no AOE healing, but that's me wanting to stick closer to the book's presentation of how the weaves work. It's not inherently show-world breaking, though.

 

Yeah I get it but I think its one of those things like. Will audiences track that some weaves require contact and some don’t? Or logically couldn’t every weave be done at distance?

 

In the end I think the One Power just got a usability upgrade. Also it permits direct shots of affected areas being healed as opposed to a shot of head and hands then jump cutting or panning to the injury. 

[SinisterDeath]

12 minutes ago, divica said:

And all those feats were considered small feats by those present.

End of the Eye of the World, Rand used a gateway.
Teleported hundreds of miles away, made the ground liquify, exploded an entire army of Trollocs that would have destroyed Shienar.

 

The point is, what she did on screen was visually fantastic representation of her superior in-book healing. It's probably going to be a one time thing. If they dialed up Nynaeve's to 11, I can't wait to see them dial up Rand's scene to 12.

 

1 minute ago, CaddySedai said:

Yeah I get it but I think its one of those things like. Will audiences track that some weaves require contact and some don’t? Or logically couldn’t every weave be done at distance?

Rand "did" heal Bela from a distance.. right? 

 

Or can we finally admit Bela is one of the few cases of creator intervention in the series?

[CaddySedai]

Just now, SinisterDeath said:

End of the Eye of the World, Rand used a gateway.
Teleported hundreds of miles away, made the ground liquify, exploded an entire army of Trollocs that would have destroyed Shienar.

 

The point is, what she did on screen was visually fantastic representation of her superior in-book healing. It's probably going to be a one time thing. If they dialed up Nynaeve's to 11, I can't wait to see them dial up Rand's scene to 12.

 

I think the running argument here that is being made is - for some reason Rand is the only one allowed to do bat shit crazy stuff at any given moment. Pre or Post meeting his head buddy. 

 

Seems kinda unfair ?

[SinisterDeath]

Just now, CaddySedai said:

I think the running argument here that is being made is - for some reason Rand is the only one allowed to do bat shit crazy stuff at any given moment. Pre or Post meeting his head buddy. 

 

Seems kinda unfair ?

If only Rand was the only one that did bat shit crazy stuff with no explanation or understanding of what they did. ? 

[Dreamwalker]

3 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Rand "did" heal Bela from a distance.. right? 

 

Or can we finally admit Bela is one of the few cases of creator intervention in the series?

Ahem, don't you mean the Creator healed *themself* ?

[Harad the White]

Anybody onboard that Elusha Salid was a figment of Logain's madness?

[SinisterDeath]

1 minute ago, Dreamwalker said:

Ahem, don't you mean the Creator healed *themself* ?

Yes and No. 

 

The meme is Bela is the creator.

Bela is clearly the Creators right hoof.

[CaddySedai]

Also - to touch on pulling stuff out of ones posterior. You all know we just… allow it to be canon and un-blinked at that a human being can shout a battlecry in a long dead tongue. One they never have heard. And only snippits have ever heard passed down through the age. 

 

Quite literally an eradicated language. 

 

And its cool cuz they knew it “in their blood”

 

Look I took a dna test to see where my blood traces back to. Turns out i have some NA blood and even some Cuban. To this day my Spanish remains garbage. So if my blood could get right on it that would be swell. 

[Maximillion]

20 minutes ago, Dreamwalker said:

I actually thought maybe this wasn't supposed to be a scar but like new pink skin. But I also had another thought-

 

The other healing they have shown, with Logain healing the king of Ghealdan and with Moiraine healing others hasn't shown scars. 

 

But this was a wound from a Trolloc/Fade. Maybe they'll have those be especially nasty and leave a scar - something about thakan'dar blades.

 

Except it didn't when Moiraine healed Tam.

 

[divica]

13 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

End of the Eye of the World, Rand used a gateway.
Teleported hundreds of miles away, made the ground liquify, exploded an entire army of Trollocs that would have destroyed Shienar.

 

The point is, what she did on screen was visually fantastic representation of her superior in-book healing. It's probably going to be a one time thing. If they dialed up Nynaeve's to 11, I can't wait to see them dial up Rand's scene to 12.

 

Rand "did" heal Bela from a distance.. right? 

 

Or can we finally admit Bela is one of the few cases of creator intervention in the series?

I agree that rand does pretty unbelivable things at the end of the books. 

The problem is should an adaptation try to make that final battle in the eye of the world more belivable or create even more unbelieving shit along the series?

 

Because if you want to create a good series you have to make it belivable. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by divica

[CaddySedai]

4 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

Except it didn't when Moiraine healed Tam.

 

Could also be time related. She suffered hers for far longer. Just trying to sleuth a reason tho haha. 

[SinisterDeath]

Just now, divica said:

Because if you want to create a good series you have to make it belivable. 

Have you watched Doom Patrol?