tv show spoilers S1E4: The Dragon Reborn

[Theseus78]

9 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Yes which is what I said. Sanderson doesn't consider the show to be an adaptation of the books, the man drew a line somewhere and that was it.

Your quote doesn't back up your position.  The show fits the definition of a book adaptation.  It may not be the adaptation you would do if you were the showrunner.  Or the adaptation Sanderson would do if he was the showrunner, but it's an adaptation.  Arguing otherwise is just silly. 

[AusLeviathan]

3 minutes ago, Theseus78 said:

Your quote doesn't back up your position.  The show fits the definition of a book adaptation.  It may not be the adaptation you would do if you were the showrunner.  Or the adaptation Sanderson would do if he was the showrunner, but it's an adaptation.  Arguing otherwise is just silly. 

My position is that Sanderson who wrote the last three books of this series does not consider this show to be an adaptation of the books and is willing to say that on reddit where everyone can see.

 

You can take your own interpretation of what that means but the fact that Sanderson has said he doesn't consider the show to be an adaptation of the books is not in question, it is proven by my post.

Edited November 30, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Harad the White]

Some ambitious mod like Caddysedai might plot the waves of negative posts versus time. Is it once a day, correlated with a time zone? Is there a particular hemisphere that hates RJ2 and everything he stands for? Is it a Faceless-19 surge, as each new variant mutates? Inquiring minds may never know.

[Gothic Flame]

29 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I seriously think you are assuming far far too much, if he wasn't happy why hasn't he dropped out of the project, and he didn't.

Money. 

Dude's getting paid. 

[AusLeviathan]

3 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Money. 

Dude's getting paid. 

If Amazon were willing to pay me I'd be supporting everything about this show too, I'd even be willing to justify Egwene being the DR as a positive change.

Edited November 30, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Elder_Haman]

22 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Yes which is what I said. Sanderson doesn't consider the show to be an adaptation of the books, the man drew a line somewhere and that was it.

But it’s not what you said. You said “Sanderson is clear that this is not an adaptation.” You did NOT say “Sanderson does not personally consider this an adaptation, but as a different turning” which is the way to accurately phrase it. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Elder_Haman

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

10 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

Logain's escape is a result of Kerene and Liandrin being distracted and loosening the shield, remember Logain couldn't hear so he had no way to know his army was there, all he knew was that the Aes Sedai weren't fully focused on his shield.

If Logain truly could not hear then his reaction in attempting to break Moiraine and Alannah's shield immediately they mentioned gentling was a massive coincidence - we only have Liandrin's word for him not being able to hear.

[Harad the White]

4 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Money. 

Dude's getting paid. 

C'mon you can do better than that with a conspiracy theory. How about the Illuminati are holding his children as hostages and the Elders of Zion will destroy his mansion with space lasers.

[Gothic Flame]

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

If Amazon were willing to pay me I'd be supporting everything about this show, I'd even be willing to justify Egwene being the DR as a positive change.

It just makes sense really. As the guy that every book fan knows about, they would want him on the team. Although I'm sure there'd be a qualifier something like if the show really starts getting publicly trashed he'd have to distance himself from it for the sake of his own reputation

[Gothic Flame]

Just now, Harad the White said:

C'mon you can do better than that with a conspiracy theory. How about the Illuminati are holding his children as hostages and the Elders of Zion will destroy his mansion with space lasers.

Logic is more reliable.

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Gothic Flame said:

Logic is more reliable.

Flawed logic ain't.

[AusLeviathan]

5 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

But it’s not what you said. You said “Sanderson is clear that this is not an adaptation.” You did NOT say Sanderson does not personally consider this an adaptation, but as a different turning which is the way to accurately phrase it. 

Word it however you want, it's still Sanderson saying the he needs to completely separate the show from the books in order to accept it.

 

2 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Although I'm sure there'd be a qualifier something like if the show really starts getting publicly trashed he'd have to distance himself from it for the sake of his own reputation

He can't risk it, he wants to actually be involved in his own adaptations and knows the only way to do that is to appear like he'll accept any changes the producers insist on.

Edited November 30, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[JaimAybara]

I’ve already given my two cents on a Perrin,
As for Mat, does he even know how to use a bow staff? When will we get this backstory? Is he just all luck moving forward? Has there been any Easter eggs for this yet? I mean he could start to learn, but he hasn’t even held one yet unless I’m mistaken. That is a long development arc to not even have been touched on yet. I was hoping for the bowstaff competition with some clever back and forth between Tam and Abel while the boys watched or participated. I would have enjoyed a 30 second clip of that immensely. My guess is it will just be memory addition or something. Which is a bit of a bummer but it will work fine.

 

At this point this could be explained easily through an offhand comment, “I guess my dad was good for one thing at least.” Flashback to him training him harshly? Something to explain his competence with his weapon of choice. I just don’t want everything to be reduced to luck or not explained at all you know? Because Mat is proficient with weapons. But maybe they wouldn’t know how to effectively differentiate between luck and talent? 

 

Overall, I’ve really gotten into it though and I’m fairly picky, so it’s going in the win column. Even the changes I don’t like might redeem themselves as plot devices in my eyes. I’ve watched E4 at least 4 times now. I wasn’t anticipating to but I have enjoyed all the Easter Eggs, love the acting, and even like some of the larger changes like Logain…I actually like the Whitecloaks on screen more as a narrative faction now too. Really nice set up for later. God I loved Valda (holy smokes, now that is a big bad) I was hanging on every word! And Bornhald (more of a Pedron Niall vibe? Goodish?) They were both incredible. I can’t wait to see more of Fain too. His smile alone after the town was attacked. Pure gold. The actors for all those characters just nailed it. Especially with limited screen time that they had.
 

Out of the mains I’m really invested with Nynaeve and Lan. Loved the prayer scene. Felt very organic. Their curiosity with one another doesn’t feel forced to me, but as it should be.

Edited November 30, 2021 by JaimAybara

[Gothic Flame]

1 minute ago, Harad the White said:

Flawed logic ain't.

You can honestly claim that Amazon wouldn't want the author who wrote the last books on the team? 

Reality check; he is.

Or do you imagine that he's donating his time for free?

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

10 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

We see a light and he covered his eyes at the same time it appeared. If he didn't see that light then what did he see exactly and why did he compare her to a light source like the sun?

I would say he is manifesting his talent to see ta'veren - in a much later book he refers to seeing the DR from a substantial distance in much the same terms.  Another character with the talent describes seeing a ta'veran as a glow again in a later book.

[Elder_Haman]

2 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

it's still Sanderson saying the he needs to completely separate the show from the books in order to accept it.

Which is not at all the same as saying the show is bad or that he hates it or that Rafe doesn’t care about the source material. 
 

He has spoken favorably of the show and if Rafe in multiple different fora. But of course you ignore those statements or rationalize them. Practically the dictionary definition of confirmation bias. 

[Kudzu]

6 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

As for Mat, does he even know how to use a bow staff? When will we get this backstory? Is he just all luck moving forward? Has there been any Easter eggs for this yet? I mean he could start to learn, but he hasn’t even held one yet unless I’m mistaken. That is a long development arc to not even have been touched on yet. I was hoping for the bowstaff competition with some clever back and forth between Tam and Abel while the boys watched or participated. I would have enjoyed a 30 second clip of that immensely. My guess is it will just be memory addition or something. Which is a bit of a bummer but it will work fine.

 

At this point this could be explained easily through an offhand comment, “I guess my dad was good for one thing at least.” Flashback to him training him harshly? Something to explain his competence with his weapon of choice. I just don’t want everything to be reduced to luck or not explained at all you know? Because Mat is proficient with weapons. But maybe they wouldn’t know how to effectively differentiate between luck and talent? 

 

Err, pretty sure in the books we never see Mat touch a quarter staff or get any indication he knows how to to use one until he whoops some princes.

[Harad the White]

Just now, Gothic Flame said:

You can honestly claim that Amazon wouldn't want the author who wrote the last books on the team? 

Reality check; he is.

Or do you imagine that he's donating his time for free?

Ok. Logic is "the study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning." Your proposition is that since BS doesn't say he dislikes Amazon, it's because he is being paid. That is flawed "logic." Another possibility is that he both likes it, and he is getting paid. Another branch of that "logic" is that he is being forced to like it because being paid by Amazon is essential to his well-being. Knowing that he was living well, before Amazon came along, invalidates that possibility. Finally, you are implying that he is a scoundrel who would "like" something which he actually doesn't, just to get paid. What fact is that conclusion based upon? Therefore, I recommend the Illuminati/Elder's of Zion theory as superior in "logic" to yours.

[JaimAybara]

10 minutes ago, Kudzu said:

 

Err, pretty sure in the books we never see Mat touch a quarter staff or get any indication he knows how to to use one until he whoops some princes.

I’m trying to think and dang he is sickly and useless for a very long time huh? Does he not have his staff even when they are walking to Caemlyn? Huh. I feel like I just got “Mandela Effect-ed.” 
 

*I just did my re-read too. Ugh. Here we go again.*

 

I guess he uses the dagger for a long time. Does he even use one as a walking stick prior to book three?

Edited November 30, 2021 by JaimAybara

[Gothic Flame]

12 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

He can't risk it, he wants to actually be involved in his own adaptations and knows the only way to do that is to appear like he'll accept any changes the producers insist on.

He's listed as a "producer" in all likelihood to justify his receiving regular remuneration.

[Gothic Flame]

Just now, Harad the White said:

Ok. Logic is "the study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning." Your proposition is that since BS doesn't say he dislikes Amazon, it's because he is being paid. That is flawed "logic." Another possibility is that he both likes it, and he is getting paid. Another branch of that "logic" is that he is being forced to like it because being paid by Amazon is essential to his well-being. Knowing that he was living well, before Amazon came along, invalidates that possibility. Finally, you are implying that he is a scoundrel who would "like" something which he actually doesn't, just to get paid. What fact is that conclusion based upon? Therefore, I recommend the Illuminati/Elder's of Zion theory as superior in "logic" to yours.

Already answered.

[Jackdaw_Fool]

Sometimes the discussions here are very confusing...

 

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

Prove it. Screenshot the post of Sanderson saying this isn't an adaptation of the WoT books. You will be graded on your reading comprehension.

 

To which AusLeviathan posts a screenshot of Sanderson's post showing he says "It's not an adaption of the books to me; it's an adaptation of the NEXT time these people are living this story."

 

And then lots of posts along the lines of the following in response:

 

44 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

He does not say that. F for reading comprehension. 

What am I missing? Seems like he posted what was asked?

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Gothic Flame said:

Already answered.

And refuted.

[Gothic Flame]

Just now, Harad the White said:

And refuted.

I believe you think so. Just as I believe you actually think he's donating his time for free, completely dismissing his "producer" credit that gets him paid just so you can believe differently.

Your claim of logic notwithstanding...

[Harad the White]

To put a bowtie on the discussion of what BS said, or didn't say: Why would anybody base their personal opinion of a show (or anything) upon what a another person said? I don't care if that other person is the Lord High Foobar of All Things Subjective, not being a slavish follower of fashion or anything else, I would judge it on my own. The N&Ns have stated their negativity. Whether it's based upon their own flawed logic or their slavishly following what BS said or didn't say is of indifference. Good luck to them. They are not trying to cornvince anyone because if they were, they would at least use cornvincing arguments.