tv show spoilers S1E4: The Dragon Reborn

[AshennaSedai]

As a player of Final Fantasy XIV, all I could think of during the ending scene was "Nynaeve just healer LB3'd"......

 

((In Final Fantasy XIV, when you're in a dungeon/trial, there is a meter that builds up as you do damage to enemies/bosses and it has 3 sections. When the 3rd is filled, different roles [DPS, Tank, Healer] have different skills but only one can use it before it empties. You only see Healer LB3 in the most dire of circumstances but it resurrects everyone in range [and can rez the entire party] and save from a wipe.))

[flinn]

1 hour ago, Harad the White said:

The fact that the voices are real means he is not. 

 

Spoiler

Which book was it that Rand had his hand blown off? Semihrage said straight out, that just because the voice is real makes no difference, it usually makes it even worse.

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Arie
Edited for Book Spoiler

[Harad the White]

7 minutes ago, flinn said:

 

Spoiler

Which book was it that Rand had his hand blown off? Semihrage said straight out, that just because the voice is real makes no difference, it usually makes it even worse.

 

Who ya going believe: A Forsaken or your lying eyes--watch Logain in the confrontation with the King. What kind of "madness" resists murderous suggestions. Gimme summa that. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Harad the White

[TheDreadReader]

13 minutes ago, AshennaSedai said:

As a player of Final Fantasy XIV, all I could think of during the ending scene was "Nynaeve just healer LB3'd"......

 

((In Final Fantasy XIV, when you're in a dungeon/trial, there is a meter that builds up as you do damage to enemies/bosses and it has 3 sections. When the 3rd is filled, different roles [DPS, Tank, Healer] have different skills but only one can use it before it empties. You only see Healer LB3 in the most dire of circumstances but it resurrects everyone in range [and can rez the entire party] and save from a wipe.))

 

I've never played that particular game but I've thought that the special effects have a lot of video game influences to them.   

[phoenixtrinity]

15 minutes ago, AshennaSedai said:

As a player of Final Fantasy XIV, all I could think of during the ending scene was "Nynaeve just healer LB3'd"......

 

((In Final Fantasy XIV, when you're in a dungeon/trial, there is a meter that builds up as you do damage to enemies/bosses and it has 3 sections. When the 3rd is filled, different roles [DPS, Tank, Healer] have different skills but only one can use it before it empties. You only see Healer LB3 in the most dire of circumstances but it resurrects everyone in range [and can rez the entire party] and save from a wipe.))

Hello fellow FF14 fan!

 

I agree it was a very cool moment. I've been speculating Nynaeve accidentally created light and what Logain commented as the sun wasn't the weaves (which he can't see) but the "goosebumps" male channelers get in the books plus seeing everyone healed.

 

If nothing else, I imagine it's not common to see a wound as severe as throat laceration Healed successfully.

[Harad the White]

24 minutes ago, phoenixtrinity said:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Harad the White
couldnt hide

[DaddyFinn]

3 hours ago, flinn said:

It appears that hearing voices is going to be the universal madness in the show, instead of each person having their own unique madness trait.

A little bit early to assume so? We have seen only two male channelers so far.

[AshennaSedai]

11 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

A little bit early to assume so? We have seen only two male channelers so far.

And there have already been distinct differences in the visualization of both people's madness. One was visualized as a flesh and blood actor. The other was visualized in the same manner as the Power.

[AshennaSedai]

23 minutes ago, phoenixtrinity said:

I agree it was a very cool moment. I've been speculating Nynaeve accidentally created light and what Logain commented as the sun wasn't the weaves (which he can't see) but the "goosebumps" male channelers get in the books plus seeing everyone healed.

 

I was thinking it could be the light of a ta'veren but I could just as easily be wrong here.

[Agitel]

55 minutes ago, Mnemosyne said:

 

Ooooohhh especially as Moiraine made the earlier comment that the Dark One "is already whispering in our ears." Yes, I think this is a likely theory.

 

Me too!

[AshennaSedai]

Question:

 

Do we know who "Elusha" is? When Logain was shown in Ghealdan, the captions attributed one of the shadows speaking to him as "Elusha".

[Agitel]

3 minutes ago, AshennaSedai said:

Question:

 

Do we know who "Elusha" is? When Logain was shown in Ghealdan, the captions attributed one of the shadows speaking to him as "Elusha".

 

Some people did some checking, and it's not a name used in the book series. So we don't know yet. Seems odd they'd name the voice unless they plan to do more with it.

[AshennaSedai]

9 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

Some people did some checking, and it's not a name used in the book series. So we don't know yet. Seems odd they'd name the voice unless they plan to do more with it.

 

That was my thought. My initial theory is that we may be seeing hints of the other Forsaken. Elusha could be Lanfear or any of the female Forsaken. When Logain escaped from the cage, the weaves were both black and white. It was a mix of both Saidin and Saidar. I think if he were just breaking through the shield, those weaves would break instead of being sweapt up by Saidin. The other idea is that was the True Power from one (or more) Forsaken that were whispering to him and what we saw in Ghealdan wasn't his madness.

[AshennaSedai]

1 hour ago, Harad the White said:

Here's another theory, by Ann Elk. The Forsaken who haven't broken free yet are shadows, like the ones whispering in Logain's ear. They will incarnate when they break free. This puts the "old man" running with "young man in a different category, also not a figment, but a strong male channeler.

 

Also potentially supported by the scene when Logain breaks free. The weaves are a mix of white and black, of Saidin and Saidar.

[TheDreadReader]

35 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

A little bit early to assume so? We have seen only two male channelers so far.

 

And, in two different forms.   It looked like a 'real' person in the first episode.  Here they look like power constructs.

 

I like how they are increasingly incorporating things now that we see much later.  Lots of foreshadowing there and book-consistent lore already being incorporated.

 

[Harad the White]

19 minutes ago, Agitel said:

Seems odd they'd name the voice unless they plan to do more with it.

The voice actress is Rebecca Tanwen. She's a "One Voice Nominee" in 2021. That's no ordinary voice.

[ManetherenTaveren]

54 minutes ago, phoenixtrinity said:

I agree it was a very cool moment. I've been speculating Nynaeve accidentally created light and what Logain commented as the sun wasn't the weaves

I guess it was cool, but it was also a troubling moment for me. Where are they going with Nynaeve's arc now? Does she even have a block, or was this scene meant to demonstrate that she can only access her power while under extreme duress and/or anger? Incredibly, she went from picking herbs and natural elixers to a god of mass mortal wound healing. (I was caught off guard by Lan's mortal wound too!) That was a phenomenal, jarring leap for her.

 

The DR shell game continues and the Forsaken shall soon pounce!

 

Unlike Perrin's dilemma, how does self-doubt take hold now? To say I'm intrigued is an understatement.

Edited November 27, 2021 by ManetherenTaveren

[phoenixtrinity]

23 minutes ago, ManetherenTaveren said:

was this scene meant to demonstrate that she can only access her power while under extreme duress and/or anger?

That's what I interpreted it as. I feel that if she didn't have a block we would have seen that by now in other much more obvious ways. To me the healing burst of rage looked like typical early Nynaeve, like when she created balefire out of nowhere in one of the early books.

[SinisterDeath]

2 hours ago, Mnemosyne said:

 

All these different portrayals are imitating the Roma, not each other. As for the Tinkers specifically, well the Roma are literally called "Travellers" in the UK. One could argue whether it's cultural appropriation or homage.

 

2 hours ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

Some of how they showed the Tinkers seem to be laying the groundwork for stuff we see later in TSR.  I saw a non-reader reaction video on youtube where she got pretty close to that development just from this episode.

 

I thought the rumspringa stuff was an interesting touch.  The kind of addition that makes sense in groups like that (especially if you consider that they don't look like a group with distinctive coloring).  They lose some members but then convert others.   That makes for a more diverse group over time.   And, felt like good worldbuilding to me.   

 

It does break the Amish comparison those because some while Amish communities will accept converts it is a relatively rare thing. 

 

 

 

Rafe's staff is probably 100% aware that the tinkers are based on the Roma "travelling people", and were trying to incorporate some Amish Traditions into it.

 

Notice how we haven't heard much about the Tinkerer's stealing yet?

 

Hell, RJ made it obvious to the reader that other people believed the Tinkerer's stole valuables and children, and that wasn't something they actually did.

 

People can certainly argue that the books/show is guilty of cultural appropriation or any number of things about the series.. and it's going to be mighty interesting how the show runners roll with the punches with the existence of the Aiel, Seafolk, Seanchan, Domani, etc.

[A Memory Of Why]

Hmmmmm, interesting idea of Logain's voices being a Forsaken.

 

Gentling doesn't cure madness right? So if he continues to hear voices it could be a good indicator if this was some Forsaken shannannigans. If so I'm guessing Ballsy, their "shadows" were clearly made up of Saidin - tainted Saidin with wisps of pure saidin. In saying that, I guess if this was some kind of mind magic that's irrelevant...

 

I also think Logain is unreliable here, how the voices are teaching him so he can do better really doesn't match up with the opening scene of the voices compelling destruction, though I do think it was well done showing Logain fighting the madness and his nobility.

 

Anyone else feel like Logain was listening to something when Moraine shows up to talk - just before he speaks?

[Katherine]

23 hours ago, Agitel said:

 

The immediately following conversation between Lan and Moiraine, though, makes it clear that interaction was platonic. There's no sexual tension in that ending, and I'd be upset and sensitive to it if I thought there was any.

While this didn’t bother me, The fact that all of the AES Sedai Are contemplating gentling Logain without a trial because they are extremely exhausted from shielding him….. but somehow have enough energy for a three-way… That was an inconsistency that bothered me. Perhaps it’s because I have three kids …two under five …and know that sexy time after an exhausting day just doesn’t happen in reality lol

[Harad the White]

6 minutes ago, Katherine said:

but somehow have enough energy for a three-way… T

?

[pretty_blossom]

Watched the ep, it's weird to see things not in the book, but I really do have to take issue with there being only 2 shielders on Logain - there are supposed to be 13 at the camp and 6 shielding all the time - putting just 2 on him is asking for trouble.

Of course - if Liandrine is responsible for that, it will hint at her true allegiance sooner than the books.

The Warders are cool.

I don't see why suddenly everybody sees the female power being wielded - Logain definitely doesn't need to see Nynaeve shining, and the warders don't need to see anything either.

I did like the Linking and the Severing visuals - impressive.

 

I like the Tinkers - taking a year off at age 20 is new, and a welcome change - but considering the world is mostly empty and in chaos, sending a young person alone to see what they can do is suicidal.

 

I liked the scenes with Rand and Mat and Thom - condensing the books on them, but it does mean Rand and Mat don't get a chance to bond with Thom as much as in the books. Still - I liked that Thom is more upfront about why he's helping them. It's weird that the dagger is causing a physical illness, and that Rand is the suspicious one, but if they want to keep Mat a candidate they do need to show something.

 

It looks like they are going to meet up in Tar Valon and not Chaemlyn, but we shall see.

[Ivan Towers]

On 11/26/2021 at 9:41 AM, divica said:

I meant to say look so amazing.

They basically had a character do something super flashy that she had no logical reason to be able to do just to awe the audience.

 

No matter what people think of the show it is AWFULL writing to make a character do something that should be impossible. And it is even worse writing to do it for no good reason.

 

 

But bruh it is never mentioned in the show that it is impossible to heal without touching, in fact it explicitly shows that healing is done without touching in the scene with tam. Nyn has never did something impossible, just because in the books healing works differently you think that even though it was shown in the show that you don't need to touch to heal. I think some people are being blind in their nitpicks 

 

Even though I agree that i'm annoyed with the whole whos the dragon thing, my brother who has never read the books loves that aspect. I agree its still a bit heavy handed

[Ralph]

Ishamael says in the books that he whispered in the ears of Artur Hawking and others, so it makes sense it could be him whispering in Logain's ears. 

 

I assumed it was the madness, though

Edited November 28, 2021 by Ralph