tv show spoilers S1E1: Leavetaking

[Raezold]

1 minute ago, MCSkembo said:

I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I'm waiting for my wife to watch E1 to see if I'm just pissed because someone messed with my precious, or if it is really that bad. How did your friends like it?

 

One was sort of okayish with it. But she's the kind of person who likes stuff like Shadow & Bone (yuk) so that's no surprise.

The rest wasn't positive. Seeing all the stuff that didn't connect, the cliché nonsense, rushing through it all. That's not something that gets them hooked.

[Borderlander]

58 minutes ago, MCSkembo said:

Especially Moiraine's ring, that thing looks like a toddler made it with play-dough.

 

The Aes Sedai rings are terrible. Cannot for the life of me figure out why they made them so big and bulbous and obvious and ugly.  

[Katherine]

3 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Book-readers alone wouldn't be enough for a few episodes let alone full seasons

I think his point was they are arguing that they made all these changes to bring in other readers…. But the show is exciting VERY few people. So the argument that these changes are for the good of the show are falling apart. Imagine if they had masterfully stuck to the source material and generated genuine excitement from fans reviewers and YouTube channels. That would have attracted more viewers. Instead they are getting “meh” reactions overall. 

[Skipp]

1 hour ago, MCSkembo said:

That's what is frustrating me with the defenders of this show. I get that you want it to be good, it just isn't. I'm trying to look past all the bad decisions, but at some point we have to admit that the script sucks and everything is downstream of that.

 

And that is the problem with the attackers of this show.  We don't have the whole picture yet.  I will be extremely disappointed if the Fever dream talk between Tam and Rand is not in the show.  But it appears it was filmed so we may get it as a flash black.  I will willing to give the show the benefit of the doubt and wait and see.

[Skipp]

12 minutes ago, Katherine said:

I think his point was they are arguing that they made all these changes to bring in other readers…. But the show is exciting VERY few people. So the argument that these changes are for the good of the show are falling apart. Imagine if they had masterfully stuck to the source material and generated genuine excitement from fans reviewers and YouTube channels. That would have attracted more viewers. Instead they are getting “meh” reactions overall. 

How is the show exciting very few people?  the ratings are averaging in the 70's or 80's.  Just because a section of forum goers aren't happy with the show doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

[TheDreadReader]

1 minute ago, Skipp said:

 

And that is the problem with the attackers of this show.  We don't have the whole picture yet.  I will be extremely disappointed if the Fever dream talk between Tam and Rand is not in the show.  But it appears it was filmed so we may get it as a flash black.  I will willing to give the show the benefit of the doubt and wait and see.

 

Very true.

 

One of the things that I've noticed is how many people who started on the negative side remain on the negative side of things  (and to a degree the opposite also seems to be true).

 

Personally, I'm on the life is too short to focus only on the negative. ?

 

 

[Katherine]

14 minutes ago, Skipp said:

How is the show exciting very few people?  the ratings are averaging in the 70's or 80's.  Just because a section of forum goers aren't happy with the show doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

Since when is 7\10 exciting?! That a C-! 
 

it’s not bad…. But not the home run that a big budget project like this should get. 

[Daenelia]

I am enjoying it more than many other shows. I really do wish they could have made something that would please everyone. Pretty sure if I hated it, some other people (who are now complaining probably) would love it.

 

It's not new to me to see people complain when something they love is turned into something they can't identify with. I am a Trekkie after all, and have seen people rail against anything from TNG, then DS9, voyager and Enterprise, and of course recently against Discovery. I see some points, but as with WoT the points that I like are just winning out for me.

 

Personally I dont see the 'low budget look, bad editing and bad writing'. The books had bad writing and editing too, I think, and that did not stop me from enjoying it overall. ? 

 

But I guess I am a glass half full person after all. Who'd have thunk...

[DaddyFinn]

1 hour ago, MCSkembo said:

That's what is frustrating me with the defenders of this show. I get that you want it to be good, it just isn't. I'm trying to look past all the bad decisions, but at some point we have to admit that the script sucks and everything is downstream of that.

It is good for many people. ?  

 

[Skipp]

36 minutes ago, Katherine said:

Since when is 7\10 exciting?! That a C-! 
 

it’s not bad…. But not the home run that a big budget project like this should get. 

It is exciting but there is room for improvement certainly.  Remember this is just the average of the first 3 episodes.  The ratings seem to be increasing with each episode.  I expect things like the CGI and pacing to get ironed our and improved over the course of the season.

 

I wish it could have had a stronger start but I am pleased with the start.  I am not out there calling for Rafe to be fired and replaced after 3 episodes or that it should be canceled immediately.  Not saying you are but there are posters on here that are.

[Katherine]

Just now, Skipp said:

It is exciting but there is room for improvement certainly.  Remember this is just the average of the first 3 episodes.  The ratings seem to be increasing with each episode.  I expect things like the CGI and pacing to get ironed our and improved over the course of the season.

 

I wish it could have had a stronger start but I am pleased with the start.  I am not out there calling for Rafe to be fired and replaced after 3 episodes or that it should be canceled immediately.  Not saying you are but there are posters on here that are.

I am not calling for him to be fired… yet. Some writers need to be though. That writing room needs to get stronger and quickly. Not ready to get rid of the head coach yet, support staff needs more talent though.

[Katherine]

31 minutes ago, Daenelia said:

I am enjoying it more than many other shows. I really do wish they could have made something that would please everyone. Pretty sure if I hated it, some other people (who are now complaining probably) would love it.

 

It's not new to me to see people complain when something they love is turned into something they can't identify with. I am a Trekkie after all, and have seen people rail against anything from TNG, then DS9, voyager and Enterprise, and of course recently against Discovery. I see some points, but as with WoT the points that I like are just winning out for me.

 

Personally I dont see the 'low budget look, bad editing and bad writing'. The books had bad writing and editing too, I think, and that did not stop me from enjoying it overall. ? 

 

But I guess I am a glass half full person after all. Who'd have thunk...

I never thought RJ was a bad writer. Totally long winded…. Took a long time to get characters through their arc. But look at how intimately we all know these characters? The long winded-ness did develop intimacy. Though 4-5 months with pregnant Elayne felt like 4-5 miserable years ??

[DaddyFinn]

2 hours ago, MCSkembo said:

Or shave the massive mole off of Egwene's nose?

Hard to take seriously anything you say when there's stuff like that. Shame.

 

 

[MCSkembo]

10 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Hard to take seriously anything you say when there's stuff like that. Shame.

 

 

Egwene is supposed to be a world class beauty who Gawyn and Galad both fall for at first sight. I get that it's shallow, but can't you see how this is an issue for the character?

[MCSkembo]

My wife finished E1 a few minutes ago. Here are some quotes from her.

 

On the opening scene.

"They are killing a guy because he touched one of them?"

"It made it look like it was going to be another girl power show"

 

Perrin

"Kind of a turd, he's in the bar drinking while his pregnant wife is working and has to be reminded to go and help her."

"Does he even work?"

 

Mat

"Weasley scumbag"

"Oh, since he takes care of his little sisters when his mom is depressed and his dad is fucking other girls that makes him OK? I don't buy it."

"Was he selling that bracelet to pay his gambling debts?"

"Why did they make it look like he was his sister's protector and then he just leaves the village leaving them behind?"

 

Moiraine

"The sorceress? She's ok I guess."

"The scene with her and her lover taking a bath was stupid"

 

Lan

"I didn't know his name"

"Seems kinda girly"

 

Nynaeve

"Seems like a pain in the ass with a constant chip on her shoulder"

"Seems like the only person she likes is the girl she's trying to seduce"

 

Egwene

"The one with the mole on her nose?"

"Did she just screw that guy in the lobby?"

"Do they even really like each other?"

 

In general

"If these are the four chosen ones, then they are pathetic, the couldn't do anything."

"They accuse the sorceress of bringing the monsters and ten second later are leaving with her? That doesn't make any sense."

"Did she have to tear down that building to beat the monsters? Were any people inside it?"

"Why was Voldemort on a horse"

 

It seems like it's even worse if you aren't invested in it.

[DaddyFinn]

12 minutes ago, MCSkembo said:

Egwene is supposed to be a world class beauty who Gawyn and Galad both fall for at first sight. I get that it's shallow, but can't you see how this is an issue for the character?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[Scarloc99]

1 hour ago, Skipp said:

How is the show exciting very few people?  the ratings are averaging in the 70's or 80's.  Just because a section of forum goers aren't happy with the show doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

Anecdotally 10 of my friends are non WOT book readers, all 10 have told me they won’t be carrying on watching it and don’t want to borrow the books. They are all fantasy people, some of them I play DND with but all of them thought the opening 2 episodes where, in the word of one, just bad. This was heralded by Amazon as there GOT, it lacks either the quality of script, acting or feel of that series. 

[MCSkembo]

1 minute ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Anecdotally 10 of my friends are non WOT book readers, all 10 have told me they won’t be carrying on watching it and don’t want to borrow the books. They are all fantasy people, some of them I play DND with but all of them thought the opening 2 episodes where, in the word of one, just bad. This was heralded by Amazon as there GOT, it lacks either the quality of script, acting or feel of that series. 

I would imagine most of the people who are giving it reviews online (good and bad) have a history with the books. Honestly after talking to my wife I'm realizing that I was probably too kind. The only reason I was as positive with it as I was is because I knew the story and where it was going. To her it seemed weird and rushed. She doesn't feel anything towards any of the characters except maybe Rand, but if any of them died it wouldn't hurt her at this point. She also said it didn't feel like there was actually a story being told.

[DaddyFinn]

7 minutes ago, MCSkembo said:

My wife finished E1 a few minutes ago. Here are some quotes from her.

 

On the opening scene.

"They are killing a guy because he touched one of them?"

"It made it look like it was going to be another girl power show"

 

Perrin

"Kind of a turd, he's in the bar drinking while his pregnant wife is working and has to be reminded to go and help her."

"Does he even work?"

 

Mat

"Weasley scumbag"

"Oh, since he takes care of his little sisters when his mom is depressed and his dad is fucking other girls that makes him OK? I don't buy it."

"Was he selling that bracelet to pay his gambling debts?"

"Why did they make it look like he was his sister's protector and then he just leaves the village leaving them behind?"

 

Moiraine

"The sorceress? She's ok I guess."

"The scene with her and her lover taking a bath was stupid"

 

Lan

"I didn't know his name"

"Seems kinda girly"

 

Nynaeve

"Seems like a pain in the ass with a constant chip on her shoulder"

"Seems like the only person she likes is the girl she's trying to seduce"

 

Egwene

"The one with the mole on her nose?"

"Did she just screw that guy in the lobby?"

"Do they even really like each other?"

 

In general

"If these are the four chosen ones, then they are pathetic, the couldn't do anything."

"They accuse the sorceress of bringing the monsters and ten second later are leaving with her? That doesn't make any sense."

"Did she have to tear down that building to beat the monsters? Were any people inside it?"

"Why was Voldemort on a horse"

 

It seems like it's even worse if you aren't invested in it.

Seems like you and your wife are a match made in heaven. ?

[Arie]

This is a soft warning, please let's not make personal attacks.

[MCSkembo]

24 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Seems like you and your wife are a match made in heaven. ?

It's true. I actually hoped she'd like it more than she did. I've been trying to get her to read the books for years.

[Vartija]

I really liked the lantern lighting ceremony, especially Tam and Rand's little shared moment and Tam's words about the nature of the Wheel. A very nice made for tv scene.

[Ralph]

Sorry very late to the party. Have just finished episode 1

 

I understand the why of most of the changes, which does not necessarily mean I think they did then well. 

 

I found Moiraine the only poor acting, which astonished me. 

 

Bran al'Vere has been made a non-character, Marin more the main one. 

 

I need to watch again to pick out the Mat stealing (I assumed he found it and didn't return), and the pregnant Laila possible Darkfriend points, which I didn't pick up on at all. 

 

I thought the Reds scene was fine. I assume Moiraine meant if he was the Dragon, the Pattern would not have allowed him to be gentle, since she thinks it can't be Healed. 

 

I can't see how a non-reader would understand anything going on, without reading all the notes in the x-ray sidebar, which I am sure many people prefer not to do. Tainted Saidin should have been explained at some point at least, to understand the Liandrin thing. 

 

Agree the ending was far far far too rushed. At least the Rand/Tam conversation could have fitted in, with the warning about Aes Sedai. 

 

Agree the Tam fight was better than the trailer made me think. Shame it is clear the colours in Egwene's dress were not from the paint in the pool. 

 

Lan/Moiraine in the hot tub I am sure is meant to bring out how close they are without being an item, but missed it a bit. 

 

Some poor lines - "as if I had any say in the matter"! 

 

They showed the kids running to meet PF without any explanation. Again only in the xray sidebar. 

 

Queries:

 

Women's Circle is now all the women in the village?? Not sure why this was needed. The whole initiation was weird, I hope it will be explained later what it was all about. Is it supposed to be teaching women to surrender? And what was Egwene expecting to happen? 

 

Do we ever see Dragon's Fang used by Shadowspawn or Darkfriends in the books? It is really the symbol of Saidin, and illustrates how people misunderstand the role of the Dragon, I always thought. 

 

What is the sacred pool Nynaeve is cleaning? 

 

It seems Aludra doesn't invent matches

 

 

Conclusion:

 

Overall it was definitely good enough for now. More different from the books than I expected, but I think mostly for pacing. Shame they stretched out Egwene's initiation instead of the ending. 

 

I feel most of the people criticising the departure from the books do not remember the first time they read EotW. Would be curious to hear from someone who has only read the first book (eg in preparation for the show) and loved it, to see how they feel it compares. 

 

We are all used to the later books where the layers of depth and character development are a hundred times better than in the first book. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Ralph

[jeffreycwagner]

I liked the scene where Egwene struggled in the river but once she stopped fighting everything was better.

[Agitel]

2 hours ago, Ralph said:

What is the sacred pool Nynaeve is cleaning? 

 

I just had a terrible thought. I don't expect it to actually be this way.

 

Spoiler

Imagine if they made it the Eye somehow, and they never realized it be because no man who could channel had ever been.

 

Or it could just be for wisdom initiation. Or to add character to the culture. 

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by Agitel