tv show spoilers S1E1: Leavetaking

[Guire]

8 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Episode 1 comment that I haven't seen anywhere:

 

What are the odds that we do in fact know the name of the poor young man who was taken by the Reds at the very beginning?

 

"A young man, who had revealed the talent, and I was not there to help him; by the time I was, it was too late"

 

  Hide contents

Thom's nephew, Owyn

 

Great if true and also explains Thoms later arrival to series.  

[MasterAblar]

2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

  Hide contents

I'm still not entirely convinced they did the dirty. That would be quite daring to do the innkeepers daughter in the common room.

 

Taking off half your clothes and then not banging seems.... rather counter productive. ?

 

[SinisterDeath]

5 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Taking off half your clothes and then not banging seems.... rather counter productive. ?

What was the scene just prior to that?
Moiraine & Lan's bath.

In the books, Rand & Tam were takin' a bath.

For all I know, they both just got out of their respective baths.

[JenniferL]

A reoccurring theme of the Wheel of Time is the importance of good hygiene. 

[TheDreadReader]

12 hours ago, flinn said:

 Interesting. We dont know the trim frame of that happening. I have often wondered how Moirraine knew the names of all the Aes Sedai involved to give Thom the list of names. In the show, she was watching it happen. It also appears she gentled/executed him there on the spot instead of taking him back to Tar Valon.

Spoiler

Book timeline (according to the Wheel of Time Wiki) is Thom's learned of his nephew in like 985 NE with the books starting in 998 NE.   

 

In terms of the guy being gentled/executed on the spot that seems like a reference to what Cadsuane refers to as the "Vileness" which Thom helps expose.  Although, I got Arafel vibes from him more than Andorran vibes.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by TheDreadReader
Added spoiler tags.

[SinisterDeath]

9 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

A reoccurring theme of the Wheel of Time is the importance of good hygiene. 

 

Well.. I mean. Yeah.

Spoiler

the Aiel sure loved their sweat tents, and Elayne loved her bubble bathes...

 

[Agitel]

I finally rewatched Leavetaking. The first time I could not but help to compare every deviation to the books. This time I was able to watch it more on its own merits.

 

I think it does have all of the same issues mentioned before about structure and pacing. It could use more breathing room and setup for its characters. But I do think it is on the whole a good and serviceable episode. 

[Scarloc99]

On 11/19/2021 at 5:36 PM, Elder_Haman said:

My general impressions of E1:

 

Pacing was poor. I think they could have shortened the battle scene and extended the post-battle scene. 

 

Character intros were ... meh. I liked Egwene's ceremony. But there was too much sitting at tables in the rest of it. Didn't love the Rand/Tam dialogue on the quarry road. And they really missed an opportunity by not showing Rand see the Fade.

 

I actually kind of liked the Perrin thing. (I'm going to have to think about this Laila was a darkfriend angle). I feel like it gives us so much insight into what's going on in his head. It was executed perfectly - he fights because he has to, loses himself in the rage of battle, then does something awful in the midst of it. It sets up a pretty powerful backdrop for his character moving forward.

 

I also found myself not minding the changes to the Cauthons. Abell didn't seem like a terrible guy, just kind of ... defeated. I can easily see a redemption arc for him and how it could play well against later book Mat. And they were able to do a pretty good job of depicting Mat's heart of gold and his recklessness.

 

I quite like the Nynaeve scene. The way Moiraine establishes dominance, the little subtlety of continuing to block Nynaeve from getting out of the pool. And the cold, calculated way that Moiraine gets the information she wants. I'm not bothered by Nynaeve's background. First, it mostly matches the cannon. And it gives us a little flavor of why people don't love the Aes Sedai. (My presumption is that they turned her away either for being a wilder or for not being strong enough in the power, but allowed her to come to whatever conclusion she wanted to because Aes Sedai are ivory tower snobs).

 

Hated most of the editing in the battle sequence. It went on too long, was too difficult to track, and failed to make me really care. I did like Tam and Rand's encounter. [LOL to the people who said they were going to make Tam look incompetent.] And as I mentioned earlier, Perrin's scene was effective. 

 

Didn't mind the bath scene at all. Didn't mind Egwene and Rand hooking up at all. 

 

Love all the actors, they've invaded my head canon. TBH, the fact that they felt so good in their roles is the main thing that kept me from feeling despondent about the show at the end of the episode. It's a shame about Barney.

 

Overall though, I felt the episode was flat. I'm glad I was able to jump right to the next episode, because if I'd had to wait a week for it I would not have left with a good taste in my mouth. (6/10)

Agree pretty much with all of this, I will add, watching it a second time, there is a little bit of the battle for Winterfell about the battle scenes, maybe one day soon, a show runner will realise you can actually fight a battle in daylight, or at least moonlight to let people see what is going on better. It wasn't as bad as the fight against the undead, but it was verging on it 

[JenniferL]

On the subject of baths, I definitely appreciate Moiraine and Lan in the bath tub together as the show announcing loudly “this isn’t GOT!” On GOT any two people sitting in a hot tub together would absolutely lead to sexy times, ESPECIALLY if anyone was saying “ooooh. Let’s heat this up”. On WOT she just heats up the water and they talk business. 

[Meskell]

On a rewatch with my wife, who has never read the books, doesn’t like fantasy (except for LotR trilogy) but did get into GOT.

 

Thoughts:

 

- the part with Mat’s mum calling him a prick etc. was very embarrassing. 
- she thought that it looked like Perrin was in love or something with Egwene and that’s why his wife wouldn’t go to the ceremony (same as what I thought but I hadn’t mention it to her beforehand)

- the whole things comes across as a cheesy teenage show. 
- tiny strawberry scene was very odd. 
- why are they getting a weird milky bath. 
- why is the ring so silly (Aes Sedai)

- why are they sitting half naked in the middle of the inn common room. 
- doesn’t like the choice of accents, with everything sounding a bit ‘breathy’

- the look of the whole thing seems a bit childish and cheap. 
 

Got about half an hour in and she said that she’s done with it already. 
 

Annoying but saves me having to explain the world as it goes on!

Edited November 21, 2021 by Meskell

[JenniferL]

10 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

I guess it's some piece of clothing that offers extra protection from the cold/rain even though she wouldn't need one.

Aes Sedai still experience things like frostbite, heat stroke, etc. They have learned to ignore the effects of extreme temperatures, but the laws of physics still apply. Lan is always checking to make sure Moiraine is appropriately dressed for the weather even if she’s not paying attention. There’s a bit when they go to the Waste with Rand and Lan immediately starts taking steps to ensure Moiraine doesn’t get heat stroke. 

[Pandemonium]

Leigh Butler mentioned the biggest missed opportunity in episode 1 was not showing the fade watching Rand and Rand catching something out of his eye.  That would have fit perfectly with their suspicion on Lan when he walked in the Inn.  Can't believe they missed that in the 1st episode 

[TheDreadReader]

10 minutes ago, Pandemonium said:

Leigh Butler mentioned the biggest missed opportunity in episode 1 was not showing the fade watching Rand and Rand catching something out of his eye.  That would have fit perfectly with their suspicion on Lan when he walked in the Inn.  Can't believe they missed that in the 1st episode 

 

This is the biggest miss in my mind too.   That seems like a far bigger miss than say not having Fain's speech, a worried village council and mayor, or any other early village talk.

 

Next, two misses on the list for me would be no Rand bringing Tam to the village and no badger or ghost hound jokes.   I think that we'll get the Rand/Tam stuff later in flashback though.

 

 

 

[Meskell]

They really couldn’t put the Tam fever dream in at this point on a tv series as it removes the mystery angle that all tv shows need. 

[flinn]

13 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

This is the biggest miss in my mind too.   That seems like a far bigger miss than say not having Fain's speech, a worried village council and mayor, or any other early village talk.

 

Next, two misses on the list for me would be no Rand bringing Tam to the village and no badger or ghost hound jokes.   I think that we'll get the Rand/Tam stuff later in flashback though.

 

 

 

 Yep, when the trailer came out, I thought... well when we see the Fade following Rand then Lan's entrance will make a lot more sense. Seems Rafe is set on making Lan look like a moron.

[Ralph]

22 hours ago, Ralph said:

Pictures 15 & 16 in the concept art attached to this episode show the pool, with Egwene coming out and the paint. 

 

Looks like it was meant to be part of this episode and was cut??? 

 

And in the behind the scenes bit 

[Starganderfish]

19 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Episode 1 comment that I haven't seen anywhere:

 

What are the odds that we do in fact know the name of the poor young man who was taken by the Reds at the very beginning?

 

"A young man, who had revealed the talent, and I was not there to help him; by the time I was, it was too late"

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Thom's nephew, Owyn

 

I like this idea but it doesnt really work for me. The man in that scene was in his thirties I'd say. Even putting aside the idea of slowing, he just looks too old.

Spoiler

Thom's nephew was supposed to be a young man with a new wife who was in need of his mature uncle's help. This wasn't a flashback from years prior because Moraine states they're heading for the Two Rivers, so it happened weeks or at most months before the show. The tragedy of Owen is a lot less impactful if Owen was that much older than Rand.  The whole point is that Rand and Matt remind Thom of Owen.

 I think this scene was meant as a way for the show to introduce the madness and a foreshadowing of how we'll experience LTT.

 

On a different note, I think I've worked out my biggest issue with episode one. Putting aside the character changes to Matt and Perrin (which I absolutley hate) and the other weird choices, I think for me it comes down to the pacing/editing.

Anecdotal stories are that the show-runners wanted a two-hour pilot and a longer season run and Amazon refused. Watching this episode, I wonder if that was a conversation that they had a little too late in the process?
It genuinely looks like they wanted a two-hour pilot,  they scripted a two-hour pilot, filned the scenes for a two-hour pilot and then Amazon said they only had an hour. At that point, rather than re-writing, or re-shooting, they took what they had and started hacking it up to edit it down to an hour. Whole segments of the story were excised.

I imagine things like Rand and Tam's interactions, Rand dragging his dying father to the village, (along with similar character building scenes for Perrin and Matt) were removed with the idea that they could be re-inserted as flash-backs later on. For whatever reason, the character building scenes for Egwene and Nynaeve stayed in ( the cliff-jumping and rock scrubbing) so it ends up feeling disjointed. We lose all the stuff with Rands sword, Perrins axe (does Perrin even have his axe anymore? I don't remember seeing it after he fridged his made-up wife) and the characters kind of feel shallow. 

I wonder if they'll have time to put much of that backstroy back in?

[Jaysen Gore]

I would have loved a one hour initial episode that ended with the Fade stepping into Two Rivers, and then a second hour that ended after the weep for Manetheren speech in town, and them leaving.  Believe me I do.  but I also get the desire from Amazon to have kick ass Moiraine in the very first hour.

[Jaysen Gore]

13 hours ago, Chwooly said:

 

 

Erosion is the geological process in which earthen materials are worn away and transported by natural forces such as wind or water.  

 

Life is not needed for erosion...

 

 

Just sayin

 

 

Yeah, was thinking about urban decay type erosion not geological stuff. But of course, you're right

[Kais]

I fully accept that it is nearly impossible to present a screen adaptation that captures the depth and breadth of Robert Jordan's epic world, but the deviations from the original story and the homage to current cultural trends are unfortunate and unnecessary. It would have been better to have called this something other than The Wheel of Time, because even though it may be entertaining, Wheel of Time it is not. We shall see the variation in reviews separated by those who loved the story, and those who love stories.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Kais
improve grammatical structure

[ArrylT]

On 11/19/2021 at 9:08 AM, ArrylT said:

 

 

Likewise.   In that I am new here, posted in Introduce Yourself, and concur with the editing.

 

In the long run Episode 1 will make no difference to me on whether I am going to watch the series or not - I am.  Basically you can say I loved the episode, liked it & disliked it all at once.  I will go into more detail later but here are some brief thoughts.

 

Love:

 

Loved finally seeing WOT on screen

Loved seeing the characters start their arcs & develop.    The scene between Rand & Egwene where Rand just "knew" she was going to become a Wisdom as an example.

Loved the fight at the farm.

Loved the presence of Moiraine.   

 

Like:

 

Liked the action.    

Liked the parts where they could stay true to the books as close as possible.  

Liked the look of the Trollocs

Liked how well Moiraine & Lan worked togetheri n the battle.

Liked the chemistry between most main characters.

 

Dislike:

 

No mention of the Flame & the Void (that I noticed).  

Emonds Field location bugged me.

Editing felt too rushed. 

Lan wanting warmer water.  

The way they left TR differed from the book

No nice mini arc of townspeople angry at Moiraine only to have the mayor shame them followed by Moiraine epic speech about Manetheren.

 

Still Processing

 

Perrin / Laila

 

I honestly think that the pilot opening episode could have been 75 min.   I totally get & wont be bothered that it was 60min.   Just that a slightly longer episode run time would hopefully have allowed for less of a rushed feel.  

 

I wont give a arbitrary grade to the episode.   I'll simply say it was a pass.  It got us off on the journey.   I have every confidence the episodes will improve.   I have no doubt that I will continue to enjoy WOT.  But I still wish the 1st episode, considering the length of time - could have been better.   A little worried that some (say maybe 20-25% of non book readers) people will start off the series on a negative and might not give it a chance to warm up.   

 

Get to watch it again tonight with my SO.  ??

 

 

Back with some last in-depth thoughts on Episode 1 (and a bit on the show itself).   Then I'll focus more on 2 & 3 and then only a few more days until #4 drops.   ?

 

However first I am pleased to share that 2 of my friends, neither of them having read the book - have seen Episode 1 and are going to be watching the show (the last 10-15 min hooked them both) - so up to 7 people I know that are going to at least give WOT a chance, if not getting hooked on it.   

 

I am not a huge fan of CGI.    If you're aware of the WOT UP channel - then I pretty much fall in the same category - if I know it is obvious cgi that is a negative.   I have never seen Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow for this reason (or 300).

 

However, having watched this episode multiple times now - I really never felt that the cgi was obvious to me.   Further someone made a pretty solid point in a YT comment somewhere - that most movies, at least in the action/fantasy/superhero genres have 100+ (if not 200+) million budgets.   Even at 10m an episode we're looking at 80m for the season - and 400 min of screen time vs. 90-120 for a movie.

 

Despite that, I am really feeling they blended CGI & practical effects really well.    There are very few moments where I felt the CGI pulled me out of the experience.  Obviously we will all have our own perspectives.

 

I think the Trollocs look better than Orcs / Uruk-hai in LOTR.  And that is not a negative on LOTR at all - their orcs/etc are great.   I just feel these trollocs are becoming the epitome of what would be the scariest monster out there.  The Myrddrael are not too far behind.  I am going to be very curious to see how draghkar and gholems are adapted.

 

I didnt like Lan wanting warmer water in the tub - but that is a personal preference of mine from how I thought I remembered Lan.   In the end it really doesnt change things for me other than that brief wtf.  After viewing it a few more times I am fine and able to enjoy how it serves to showcase their familiarity and bond.

 

Obviously we'll never be able to fix the pacing of Episode 1 (save extended editions) but I am appreciative of how future episodes benefit from this in comparison.  Like some have said this episode took the brunt of the so that the future episodes could stand on the foundation and shine brighter.   And since it hasnt had an effect on any of the people I know having watched episode 1 then it hasnt been a killer.

 

I've also heard that Rafe wanted & pitched (maybe this could be confirmed?) a 2 hour premier episode.  I've also heard that they had hoped for 10 episodes.  

 

I feel that Rafe as show runner, has done a really good job considering all the obstacles - obviously the weight falls on him, but in the end he does not have perfect control over length, budget, covid, and the 1001 suggestions from execs to make it more relatable to the lowest common denominator.   When your hands are partially tied like that you cannot win every argument or do everything people expect of us.  In baseball if the Manager puts a guy who cannot hit fastballs regularly against a split fastball specialist - well that isnt the hitters fault if they do their best and still strike out.

 

So sure, while I  can be disappointed at how some things were adapted, or not brought into the adaptation - but when ones hands are tied - it just feels unfair for me to put the blame solely on one person.   I was pleased that Brandon Sanderson felt he is doing a great job.   It certainly helps that he has a great crew, many of who are as big fans of the books as many of us.   

 

I still plan to be critical and comment where I do not like something or miss something that does not get adapted.   But I will strive my best to not be negative just to be negative or assume the worst.   One thing about episode 1 is that the show not tell aspect of tv really means a leap of faith is going to be useful. 

 

And so far with the next episodes (and from what I have heard they continue to improve all the way thru 6) that faith has been more than justified (for me).  Since it is unlikely we are going to have GOT like sexpositions, we'll be relying on other means to get the worldbuilding & exposition across.   All the bonus content for the nerds (like me) to geek on certainly is a good start.

 

In the end I would have loved a smoother start.   But I do think a rough start can have its uses - you do not learn as much from failure.  These early struggles could serve, and I strongly believe the show is loaded with tons of people who want to do their utmost to make the WOT shine on screen, to help drive the show forward in a positive direction. 

 

If everything had been perfect (which was likely an impossibility) from the get-go then well there is only one direction to go.   Finally I feel I recall (and have seen others feel this way too) that the first episodes of GOT were clunky at times too.   I definitely feel the first sets they had did not look that great.    It isnt really fair to judge the start of WOT versus the best of GOT.   Especially as much as I love EOTW - it still was not the best of WOT.  

 

Last but not least, I am grateful that the 1st episode has given me a desire to re-read the books soon - I have way too many books but these books deserve another read through (and like many I have read them multiple times).  And it seems to have done the same for a few of the people I know who are new to WOT. 

 

Thanks for reading. 

 

“Stories have power. Gleemen’s tales, and bards’ epics, and rumors in the street alike. They stir passions, and change the way people see the world.”
 

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by ArrylT
spelling edit

[MasterAblar]

I haven't seen this pointed out yet.

 

Did they really have Lan pull that trolloc throwing sword straight out of Moiraine like that? I know there's rule of cool and all but isn't the general of thumb that you don't pull a blade right out of body like that willy nilly? He didn't even do it gently either, just yanked the damn thing out.

 

I know it's a really small thing, but I'm not gonna lie it did make me want to facepalm somewhat. ?

[DaddyFinn]

5 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

I haven't seen this pointed out yet.

 

Did they really have Lan pull that trolloc throwing sword straight out of Moiraine like that? I know there's rule of cool and all but isn't the general of thumb that you don't pull a blade right out of body like that willy nilly? He didn't even do it gently either, just yanked the damn thing out.

 

I know it's a really small thing, but I'm not gonna lie it did make me want to facepalm somewhat. ?

I saw Moiraine pull it out herself. But yes, that's usually the last thing to do with wounds like that.

[MasterAblar]

3 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

I saw Moiraine pull it out herself. But yes, that's usually the last thing to do with wounds like that.

 

Just checked, you're right it actually is Moiraine. She gets a time out for being typical action scene dumb.?

Edited November 22, 2021 by MasterAblar

[DaddyFinn]

1 minute ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Just checked, you're right it actually is Moiraine. She gets a time out for being typical action scene dumb.?

Thinking further: the blade is a trolloc blade. They poison the wound. Maybe it would do more harm if not removed quickly? Maybe Moiraine and Lan knew it didn't hit the large artery?