Am I the only one who thinks the show looks bad?

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, TheDreadReader said:

A good thing to keep in mind when people mention the Legend of the Seeker adaptation is that we, as fans, don't know all the details in what was purchased when the production company obtained the rights to the book or series.   They may have only obtained the rights to the first book, the first book and some specific characters, etc.  That is the situation that Sony found itself in with Spiderman once Marvel decided to do the MCU.  Sony had the rights to Spiderman and some of Spiderman's associated villains but they did not have the rights to other Marvel characters.   Things got messy for Sony when Marvel decided to do the MCU.

 

Another example to look at might be the Dresden Files adaptation that the author described as "The show is not the books. It is not meant to follow the same story. It is meant as an alternate world, where the overall background and story-world is similar, but not all the same things happen. The show is not attempting to recreate the books on a chapter-by-chapter or even story-by-story basis".   It is possible that Butcher didn't give them the rights to major storylines in the overall series.  There are good reasons for the author to do that and they are good reasons for the production company to not want to follow the books all that closely.

Two things.

1. As far as I'm concerned, "Wizards First Rule", is the epitome of trash fantasy. This is primarily because that Author hated the Fantasy genre and it's fans... I'm also like, 75% sure, that he said some unkind things about RJ, while RJ was going to Mayo. So, you know, Screw that guy and the books he rode in on.

As for the Legend of the Seeker TV show? It sucked. It sucked on it's own merits, not because it didn't follow the books. (Every action scene with Richard, he was CONSTANTLY jumping on top of his enemies, swinging his sword above his head. That's bad... and I pray they don't do that too often in this show either. (looking at you mr.warder guy))

Dresden Files TV show, I enjoyed it when it aired. I'm almost positive I never finished it, but i'm not even certain Sci-Fi aired every episode.
They had some REALLY good TV shows back in the mid-2000s and early 2010s. They also got canned really FAST if they didn't reach the right numbers.. I want to say some shows got canned so fast they didn't even air all the episodes. We also had like... 3 writers strikes back then? It was a messy era to start a good fantasy show...

2. Both of those shows were in an entirely different era of TV show/serialization.
Both of these came out before GoT pretty much showed everyone what "Fantasy" as a TV series could be.

They both came out before big name Movie actors started appearing in TV Shows, bucking the idea that TV show actors were less than Movie Actors and beneath them. ($$$ Talks. Blame Seinfeld and Charlie Scheen for that)
They also came out before Streaming like Netflix really got big, and TV Shows had bigger budgets then movies.

[DojoToad]

29 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

1. As far as I'm concerned, "Wizards First Rule", is the epitome of trash fantasy. This is primarily because that Author hated the Fantasy genre and it's fans... I'm also like, 75% sure, that he said some unkind things about RJ, while RJ was going to Mayo. So, you know, Screw that guy and the books he rode in on.
 

Totally agree.  When I first read it, I really liked it - don't know how long ago it was.  Second book fell off significantly and I didn't even finish the third.  But I hung onto Wizards First Rule and just picked it up about 2 years ago - and trash is a kind way to describe it...

[king of nowhere]

2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Two things.

1. As far as I'm concerned, "Wizards First Rule", is the epitome of trash fantasy. This is primarily because that Author hated the Fantasy genre and it's fans... I'm also like, 75% sure, that he said some unkind things about RJ, while RJ was going to Mayo. So, you know, Screw that guy and the books he rode in on.

 

I disagree on wizard's first rule.

It had a good shot at being the epitome of trash fantasy, but it was surpassed by the rest of the saga. that first book is the only one that's halfway decent. At least the first half is not bad.

Book two is full of wot plagiarism.

subsequent books... i wonder why fantasy is full of vivid rape descriptions. is there some correlation between fantasy and interest for sexual humiliation/violence? because it's not just sex put in as blatant fanservice; no, it's specifically rape and humiliation. in a lot of bad fantasy.

[TheDreadReader]

3 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

2. Both of those shows were in an entirely different era of TV show/serialization.
Both of these came out before GoT pretty much showed everyone what "Fantasy" as a TV series could be.

They both came out before big name Movie actors started appearing in TV Shows, bucking the idea that TV show actors were less than Movie Actors and beneath them. ($$$ Talks. Blame Seinfeld and Charlie Scheen for that)
They also came out before Streaming like Netflix really got big, and TV Shows had bigger budgets then movies.

 

I totally agree.   

 

In some ways the relative successes of some of those 90's shows are what created the opportunity for GOT to happen (along with GRRM's background as a TV writer) which feeds into the Hollywood/Entertainment Industry's tendency to try to recreate the magic by doing something similar.  Examples abound from my youth in the 80's like Willow, Labyrinth, Neverending Story, etc. 

 

My big point was more along the lines that there are considerations outside the 'story' that factor into how that story gets told.   I don't think those come into play so much with WOT since Team Jordan and Sanderson are involved (in some degree) with the production. 

 

I saw elsewhere that someone mentioned the original Battlestar Galactica (which I still love and enjoy far more than the reboot) and that was pretty much ripped as a Star Wars clone by the critics when it came out but it is at least a cult classic to some of us.  But, Star Wars' success definitely had something to do with the decision to greenlight it.

 

 

[CaddySedai]

I mean...

 

I love all the opposing viewpoints but I gotta just say.

 

We're getting a Wheel of Time TV series.

 

How can you not just be a little stoked?

 

Go in hopeful and either be crushed or elated based on what it IS...now what it could be?

 

And I do understand the worry. Names mean alot to us...like how Jurassic Park 2 and 3 COULD have been perfectly passable "dinosaur movies" but were absolute trash in my heart and mind because I wanted Jurassic Park and got Jurassic Lame. lol

 

Still...there is nothing in this medium to compare the series to yet. Except Winter Dragon.

 

So already the series is a smashing success to me. The trailer alone haha.

[Rhettles]

On 9/18/2021 at 7:49 AM, swollymammoth said:

3. The trailer shows a lot of Aes Sedai when they're really not in the first book at all

Sort of.   Aes Sedai works, their role in the world, peoples attitudes towards them,  the fact that they are still just women even though they can channel, good and bad, kind and cruel IS all described the eye of the word.  I suppose Rafe could have had Moiraine sit down and explain it all like in the books, but it's much more exciting to actually show it.    

And I agree with other peoples comments, showing Logain's capture on screen is (potentially)  genius, and also entertaining as hell.   Especially if his character is going to play a larger role in the series later on.

[Beidomon]

2 hours ago, CaddySedai said:

Still...there is nothing in this medium to compare the series to yet. Except Winter Dragon.

 

And another thing, Billy Zane better make an appearance. I don't care if he's an extra. Don't tell me his schedule is too busy. Rafe needs to make this happen.

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Beidomon

[swollymammoth]

On 9/22/2021 at 10:57 AM, Rhettles said:

Sort of.   Aes Sedai works, their role in the world, peoples attitudes towards them,  the fact that they are still just women even though they can channel, good and bad, kind and cruel IS all described the eye of the word.  I suppose Rafe could have had Moiraine sit down and explain it all like in the books, but it's much more exciting to actually show it.    

And I agree with other peoples comments, showing Logain's capture on screen is (potentially)  genius, and also entertaining as hell.   Especially if his character is going to play a larger role in the series later on.

This is kind of my point though. First off, there's nothing wrong with having Moiraine explain it to the main characters. The exposition in EoTW works so well because Rand, Mat, and Perrin are totally clueless about this stuff. It's natural that they would have questions and natural that Moiraine would answer them. But really, an explanation from Moiraine isn't even really necessary. Tam's line, "An Aes Sedai never lies, but the truth she speaks, may not be the truth you think you hear" is basically everything you need to know, and that can just be reinforced by the way people react to Moiraine or talk about aes sedai in casual conversation throughout the series. What's most interesting about aes sedai is how little people trust them, not that they can catch arrows using magic. 

 

However, this brings me to something else, which is that the early WoT books are some of the most exciting in the series despite hardly including any aes sedai or channeling (at least compared to later in the series). In adapting those books, you don't need to add random scenes of aes sedai wielding the One Power to make the story exciting for TV. The fact that they've put the aes sedai front and center makes me feel like the showrunners don't trust the source material and just latched on to the most outwardly obvious aspect which makes it cool/socially topical in 2021. And that worries me. 

 

As for the Logain stuff, he's one of the best characters in the books and I welcome an expanded role for him in the show. It's one of the few changes which has gotten me excited!

[Elder_Haman]

4 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

As for the Logain stuff, he's one of the best characters in the books and I welcome an expanded role for him in the show. It's one of the few changes which has gotten me excited!

But I don't understand how you expand Logain's role without simultaneously giving the Aes Sedai an expanded role. Logain must be captured. He must be gentled. Aes Sedai are required for that.

 

6 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

The fact that they've put the aes sedai front and center makes me feel like the showrunners don't trust the source material and just latched on to the most outwardly obvious aspect which makes it cool/socially topical in 2021. And that worries me. 

I truly, truly, truly do not understand this complaint. The most unique aspect of the Wheel of Time mythology is the nature of the One Power existing in male and female halves. And the most unique thing about the story (at least at the time of its release) was the strength of the female characters. The world is - in many ways - a matriarchy.

 

If you are Amazon, why on Earth would you not highlight those things? It doesn't change the story a single iota to magnify the importance of the Aes Sedai in Randland, because their importance can't be overstated! 

[swollymammoth]

On 9/22/2021 at 10:14 AM, CaddySedai said:

I mean...

 

I love all the opposing viewpoints but I gotta just say.

 

We're getting a Wheel of Time TV series.

 

How can you not just be a little stoked?

 

Go in hopeful and either be crushed or elated based on what it IS...now what it could be?

 

And I do understand the worry. Names mean alot to us...like how Jurassic Park 2 and 3 COULD have been perfectly passable "dinosaur movies" but were absolute trash in my heart and mind because I wanted Jurassic Park and got Jurassic Lame. lol

 

Still...there is nothing in this medium to compare the series to yet. Except Winter Dragon.

 

So already the series is a smashing success to me. The trailer alone haha.

I would say that was my attitude when the show was first announced. All things being equal, yes, I was excited for a WoT TV show! However, all things are not equal anymore because we have information. We have information about the showrunners' priorities and approach and we have other details as well. And much of that information is concerning to me. 

 

Also, I would push back on the claim that there's nothing to compare it to. Why can't we compare it to GoT? Big budget fantasy TV based on a beloved and acclaimed series of novels. I have never seen the TV show, but I've read the books and just 5 minutes ago I went and watched the original trailer for Season 1 ... and it was great! It doesn't misrepresent the books in any way, which I think the WoT trailer does. It is for this reason that I can only hope that I'm wrong and that the show is good. 

 

Am I thinking too much about this before the show is even out? The answer is yes. Am I a crazy person? Yes. Yes I am haha 

Edited September 22, 2021 by swollymammoth
Typo!

[swollymammoth]

On 9/22/2021 at 3:32 PM, Elder_Haman said:

But I don't understand how you expand Logain's role without simultaneously giving the Aes Sedai an expanded role. Logain must be captured. He must be gentled. Aes Sedai are required for that.

 

I truly, truly, truly do not understand this complaint. The most unique aspect of the Wheel of Time mythology is the nature of the One Power existing in male and female halves. And the most unique thing about the story (at least at the time of its release) was the strength of the female characters. The world is - in many ways - a matriarchy.

 

If you are Amazon, why on Earth would you not highlight those things? It doesn't change the story a single iota to magnify the importance of the Aes Sedai in Randland, because their importance can't be overstated! 

To clarify the first point, I think his role in later seasons should be expanded, not his role in the first book. I don't care about seeing him captured, and if they choose to show that before his first appearance in the cage then I'd consider that a major downgrade. 

 

As to the second point, I would point out that Marion Zimmer Bradley was writing popular fantasy books throughout the 80's which centered on women and women using magic. So were Barbara Hambley and many other writers. WoT gets way too much credit for this imo haha Also, (and this is just an observation) in my nearly 15 years as a fan, probably the biggest complaint I've heard about the series is the presentation of the female characters. My wife is reading the series for the first time, and all she seems to talk about is how she hates the women haha It's kind of revising history a bit to claim that WoT was ever some kind of feminist touchstone when it was so long the target of scorn for not being that haha Note: This is a completely pedantic point that I've made too much out of. 

 

With regards to WoT being a matriarchy, there is an argument to be made here. However, I think that classifying that as a selling point is missing the mark. Especially since the world is only a matriarchy because it's broken. Pre-breaking and Post-Tarmon Gai-don, the world is run by men and women working together. So by elevating the role of the female aes sedai in WoT's marketing (and maybe storytelling) when one of the themes of WoT is that Aes Sedai actually have an overinflated sense of their own importance, Amazon is engaging in some unintentional irony. 

 

The selling point should have been The Dragon Reborn, that the world is approaching the end and it's Chosen One is just as likely to destroy the world as save it. This is the core of the story and I just don't like that Amazon felt they had to obscure that in favor of something else. Like, the Wheel of Time literally spins the pattern around Rand, and he's in the trailer for 1 second haha it's ironic, even if it doesn't actually end up reflecting the content of the show (which I hope it doesn't). 

 

So there you go! Hopefully that helped clarify my perspective a little. Thanks for the discussion! 

[Elder_Haman]

4 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

As to the second point, I would point out that Marion Zimmer Bradley was writing popular fantasy books throughout the 80's which centered on women and women using magic. So were Barbara Hambley and many other writers. WoT gets way too much credit for this imo haha Also, (and this is just an observation) in my nearly 15 years as a fan, probably the biggest complaint I've heard about the series is the presentation of the female characters. My wife is reading the series for the first time, and all she seems to talk about is how she hates the women haha It's kind of revising history a bit to claim that WoT was ever some kind of feminist touchstone when it was so long the target of scorn for not being that haha Note: This is a completely pedantic point that I've made too much out of. 

I grant this point, but it's also a non-sequitur. I'm not arguing that WoT was a 'feminist touchstone' or that it was the only popular fantasy centered on women. I am saying that from the very beginning, the Wheel of Time has been a story that is full of strong female characters.

 

There may have been issues with the way Jordan wrote women, but the fact of the matter is that any adaptation of the Wheel of Time is going to have lots of amazing roles for women. It would make zero sense not to give that aspect some love from a marketing perspective.

 

9 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

So by elevating the role of the female aes sedai in WoT's marketing (and maybe storytelling) when one of the themes of WoT is that Aes Sedai actually have an overinflated sense of their own importance, Amazon is engaging in some unintentional irony. 

Good!! What I'm saying is that the way the Teaser presents the role of the Aes Sedai exactly as they are in Randland when the story begins. They are prominent in the world. They do have an unusual amount of influence over events. The teaser serves to set the expectations for the audience and the fall of the Aes Sedai will subvert those expectations (to a degree).

 

14 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

The selling point should have been The Dragon Reborn, that the world is approaching the end and it's Chosen One is just as likely to destroy the world as save it. This is the core of the story and I just don't like that Amazon felt they had to obscure that in favor of something else.

I couldn't disagree more. We are full to brimming with 'farm boy destined to save the world' stories. One more "Chosen One" trope is not going to move the needle much. Highlighting what is different about WoT is better than leaning hard into fantasy tropes at this point. 

 

And again, the TEASER was not trying to tell us anything about the story at all.

[SinisterDeath]

45 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

Why can't we compare it to GoT? Big budget fantasy TV based on a beloved and acclaimed series of novels.

You can compare it to anything you want really.
I think Caddy's point about comparisons is that, GoT's use of magic is very rare. It's content is generally grimdark, and it's more low fantasy then high fantasy. (I personally rate WoT as Medium Fantasy)

 

In recent Fantasy TV Series, we really haven't had anything with this kind of budget, that also has this much magic usage.

Witcher has magic, but they don't use it that much.
We don't want to compare WoT to Shannara chronicles, unless this show is 5000x better. 
And unless we start talking Marvel & Anime, I really can't think of anything that uses magic like this, let alone has it's budget.
 

20 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

As to the second point, I would point out that Marion Zimmer Bradley was writing popular fantasy books throughout the 80's which centered on women and women using magic. So were Barbara Hambley and many other writers. WoT gets way too much credit for this imo haha Also, (and this is just an observation) in my nearly 15 years as a fan, probably the biggest complaint I've heard about the series is the presentation of the female characters. My wife is reading the series for the first time, and all she seems to talk about is how she hates the women haha It's kind of revising history a bit to claim that WoT was ever some kind of feminist touchstone when it was so long the target of scorn for not being that haha Note: This is a completely pedantic point that I've made too much out of. 

WoT probably does get too much credit, but it's not wrong that when Jordan first wrote the series up to his death, he was often praised for writing the best female characters (For a man), and it was definitely part of the series marketing through out the 90s and 2000s.

There's actually been several scathing reviews over the years, regarding Jordan's portrayal of women, but yet it doesn't hurt to frame it in the era in which it was written. For a male author of his time? He was ahead of the curve.

 

20 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

With regards to WoT being a matriarchy, there is an argument to be made here. However, I think that classifying that as a selling point is missing the mark. Especially since the world is only a matriarchy because it's broken. Pre-breaking and Post-Tarmon Gai-don, the world is run by men and women working together.

Yet the novel takes place post-breaking. 
Look at any alternate history novel, what's their selling point? Isn't it usually "Instead of X, Y happened."

 

Quote

So by elevating the role of the female aes sedai in WoT's marketing (and maybe storytelling) when one of the themes of WoT is that Aes Sedai actually have an overinflated sense of their own importance, Amazon is engaging in some unintentional irony. 

Who says they aren't going to incorporate that? 
The entire series has the underlying theme that what people know to be true is often wrong. That governments are willfully ignorant of the reality of what's happening around them, and getting people to fight a common enemy is like pulling teeth from a honey badger.
That even those in the shadows that know more than anyone else, are just as ignorant as the masses.

There's other underlying themes. Like PTSD. Good v Evil, Honor, Gender Roles/Dynamics, the works.

 

 

24 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

The selling point should have been The Dragon Reborn, that the world is approaching the end and it's Chosen One is just as likely to destroy the world as save it

Well, in the teaser they did say the "Final Battle is coming", the Trailer should include something about Moiraine's mission to find the DR, but you know... how about we have the Dragon Reborn's take on this?

 

Spoiler

Here is your flaw, Shaitan, Lord of the Dark, Lord of Envy, Lord of Nothing, here is why you fail. It was not about me. It’s never been about me.”
It was about a woman, torn and beaten down, cast from her throne and made a puppet. A woman who had crawled when she had to. That woman still fought.
It was about a man that love repeatedly forsook. A man who found relevance in a world that others would have let pass them by. A man who remembered stories and who took fool boys under his wing when the smarter move would have been to keep on walking. That man still fought.
It was about a woman with a secret, a hope for the future. A woman who had hunted the truth before others could. A woman who had given her live, then had it returned. That woman still fought.
It was about a man whose family was taken from him, but who stood tall in his sorrow and protected those he could.
It was about a woman who refused to believe that she could not help, could not heal those who had been harmed.
It was about a hero who insisted with every breath that he was anything but a hero.
It was about a woman who would not bend her back while she was beaten, and who shown with a light for all who watched, including Rand.
It was about them all.
~Rand al Thor”

 

[CaddySedai]

@swollymammoth

 

Yeah, though the way I see it we know more but the same time we have not seen the end result. 

 

Could be trash. 

 

Could be ok. 

 

Could actually be amazing. 

 

It’s hard for me to get too worked up because I am working hard to push my own bias of “what it should be” down before I see a lick of it haha. 

[swollymammoth]

On 9/22/2021 at 4:15 PM, Elder_Haman said:

I grant this point, but it's also a non-sequitur. I'm not arguing that WoT was a 'feminist touchstone' or that it was the only popular fantasy centered on women. I am saying that from the very beginning, the Wheel of Time has been a story that is full of strong female characters.

 

There may have been issues with the way Jordan wrote women, but the fact of the matter is that any adaptation of the Wheel of Time is going to have lots of amazing roles for women. It would make zero sense not to give that aspect some love from a marketing perspective.

 

Good!! What I'm saying is that the way the Teaser presents the role of the Aes Sedai exactly as they are in Randland when the story begins. They are prominent in the world. They do have an unusual amount of influence over events. The teaser serves to set the expectations for the audience and the fall of the Aes Sedai will subvert those expectations (to a degree).

 

I couldn't disagree more. We are full to brimming with 'farm boy destined to save the world' stories. One more "Chosen One" trope is not going to move the needle much. Highlighting what is different about WoT is better than leaning hard into fantasy tropes at this point. 

 

And again, the TEASER was not trying to tell us anything about the story at all.

I apologize if I was unclear, but I was specifically responding to your point that it was the most unique thing about the WoT story at the time of its release was the strength of its main characters. I contest that it wasn't super unique then in that regard and especially isn't now, almost 30 years later. As such, I think there's little reason to use it as marketing material outside of pandering to a limited subset of consumers who actually make viewing decisions based on the gender of the lead characters. That being said, there are definitely awesome roles for women in WoT. But there were also awesome roles for women in GoT, but HBO at least knew that that wasn't enough a sticking point to market their show on. 

 

It's fair to think that the Chosen One thing is tired, but I do want to make a few counter points: 

1. I think there's a case to be made that it's time for the Chosen One story to make a comeback. Since GoT, everyone in prestige TV has been going for dark, gritty, stories with complex morality. I think there's actually a market for a return to the older modes now that they've been out of the rotation for a while. And whether they decide to market it as this or not, WoT is that kind of story haha People tired of the "farmboy destined to save the world" are going to figure it out eventually and the jig will be up. Some may stick around because they've gotten invested, but how many others will just be disappointed? 

2. Also, even if my armchair market analysis is wrong (it most likely is), I still think that WoT's twist that the farmboy is destined to destroy the world is still fresh and different, at least in the world of Big-budget TV fantasy. I would wager that most casual audiences actually haven't seen anything like it before. 

 

Lastly, I think too much is being made of this Teaser trailer vs real trailer distinction. A teaser trailer is supposed to have laser focus. It is supposed to quickly and immediately communicate what the studio believes is the main appeal of the show. I think plenty can be learned about how they've approached the show from a teaser, and I what I saw in this teaser has just reinforced everything which has concerned me about Rafe's interviews and the other information which preceded it. 

[swollymammoth]

On 9/22/2021 at 4:31 PM, SinisterDeath said:

You can compare it to anything you want really.
I think Caddy's point about comparisons is that, GoT's use of magic is very rare. It's content is generally grimdark, and it's more low fantasy then high fantasy. (I personally rate WoT as Medium Fantasy)

 

In recent Fantasy TV Series, we really haven't had anything with this kind of budget, that also has this much magic usage.

Witcher has magic, but they don't use it that much.
We don't want to compare WoT to Shannara chronicles, unless this show is 5000x better. 
And unless we start talking Marvel & Anime, I really can't think of anything that uses magic like this, let alone has it's budget.
 

WoT probably does get too much credit, but it's not wrong that when Jordan first wrote the series up to his death, he was often praised for writing the best female characters (For a man), and it was definitely part of the series marketing through out the 90s and 2000s.

There's actually been several scathing reviews over the years, regarding Jordan's portrayal of women, but yet it doesn't hurt to frame it in the era in which it was written. For a male author of his time? He was ahead of the curve.

 

Yet the novel takes place post-breaking. 
Look at any alternate history novel, what's their selling point? Isn't it usually "Instead of X, Y happened."

 

Who says they aren't going to incorporate that? 
The entire series has the underlying theme that what people know to be true is often wrong. That governments are willfully ignorant of the reality of what's happening around them, and getting people to fight a common enemy is like pulling teeth from a honey badger.
That even those in the shadows that know more than anyone else, are just as ignorant as the masses.

There's other underlying themes. Like PTSD. Good v Evil, Honor, Gender Roles/Dynamics, the works.

 

 

Well, in the teaser they did say the "Final Battle is coming", the Trailer should include something about Moiraine's mission to find the DR, but you know... how about we have the Dragon Reborn's take on this?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Here is your flaw, Shaitan, Lord of the Dark, Lord of Envy, Lord of Nothing, here is why you fail. It was not about me. It’s never been about me.”
It was about a woman, torn and beaten down, cast from her throne and made a puppet. A woman who had crawled when she had to. That woman still fought.
It was about a man that love repeatedly forsook. A man who found relevance in a world that others would have let pass them by. A man who remembered stories and who took fool boys under his wing when the smarter move would have been to keep on walking. That man still fought.
It was about a woman with a secret, a hope for the future. A woman who had hunted the truth before others could. A woman who had given her live, then had it returned. That woman still fought.
It was about a man whose family was taken from him, but who stood tall in his sorrow and protected those he could.
It was about a woman who refused to believe that she could not help, could not heal those who had been harmed.
It was about a hero who insisted with every breath that he was anything but a hero.
It was about a woman who would not bend her back while she was beaten, and who shown with a light for all who watched, including Rand.
It was about them all.
~Rand al Thor”

 

An excellent reply! Thank you. My only comment would be the pushback to my comment about the Aes Sedai's self importance (forgive me, but I can't figure out how to do the quote box thing haha). I want to clarify that I'm just talking about the teaser. I just think it's a bit of poetic irony that Amazon seems to have an overinflated idea of the Aes Sedai's importance to the show, just like the Aes Sedai have of their own importance in the books haha 

[Beidomon]

3 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I truly, truly, truly do not understand this complaint. The most unique aspect of the Wheel of Time mythology is the nature of the One Power existing in male and female halves. And the most unique thing about the story (at least at the time of its release) was the strength of the female characters. The world is - in many ways - a matriarchy.

 

If you are Amazon, why on Earth would you not highlight those things? It doesn't change the story a single iota to magnify the importance of the Aes Sedai in Randland, because their importance can't be overstated! 

I think the complaint is that we appear to be getting hit with a much bigger world much earlier on the series. One of the things that’s great about WOT is that we see the world expand early in the series through the eyes of the EF5. Based on the WOTTV trailer, season 1 is going to be a lot bigger through a lot more eyes. And I’m not sure that’s a great approach. 

[Elder_Haman]

24 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

One of the things that’s great about WOT is that we see the world expand early in the series through the eyes of the EF5. Based on the WOTTV trailer, season 1 is going to be a lot bigger through a lot more eyes. And I’m not sure that’s a great approach. 

I get where you're coming from here. In fact, I sort of started out with the same thought process. But the more I think about it, it's really the only approach. There's too much exposition necessary to explain too many things. Easier and better to show it.

[DojoToad]

6 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I get where you're coming from here. In fact, I sort of started out with the same thought process. But the more I think about it, it's really the only approach. There's too much exposition necessary to explain too many things. Easier and better to show it.

But can't it be shown more slowly?  If they expand the world quickly, they have nowhere to go in later seasons.  Adding different countries, cultures, peoples, etc. each season keeps the interest level fresh.  Folks new to WoT will get hints of the expansiveness of the world through the diversity of Aes Sedai and their Warders.  These hints can be fleshed out as the characters visit Tear, Andor, Arad Doman, Cairhein...

 

The story will keep advancing each season but the backdrop will be the same if the world expands too quickly.  At least that's where I think @Beidomon was going...?

[Elder_Haman]

8 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Adding different countries, cultures, peoples, etc. each season keeps the interest level fresh. 

But that's exactly what they're going to do. They're establishing the magic first. Getting the audience comfortable with it by spending time on it. (And let's face it, the magic tends to be one of the tougher things to swallow for non-fantasy people.) 

 

And then, once the Aes Sedai have been established, they will start adding different countries and cultures. And the Aes Sedai influence will wane. And they (in general terms) will no longer be the center of attention while the characters we care about will ascend.

[DojoToad]

Okay. I can see that

[Ahzerie2]

Swallymammoth you hit the nail on the head. Every point you made my husband and I have discussed repeatedly.  Especially your last two points. If they have Rand and Egwene have sex I'm out as well. 

[CaddySedai]

I think we all tend to forget the size of our novels. 

 

EotW is 782 pages long. A TV series needs to compress that because while they plan multiple seasons its too tall of an ask to hit every point. The newly dropped Moiriane introduction to the Two Rivers essentially compresses an entire chapter of intrigue. Sacrifices will be made, things will be altered. 

 

Furthermore all our books together comprise 11308 pages. 

 

For reference…

 

The Lord of the Rings is 1178 pages and it took them 11.43 (extended cut) hours to tell that story. 

Edited October 9, 2021 by CaddySedai

[Ahzerie2]

On 9/17/2021 at 5:49 PM, swollymammoth said:

I'm not someone who needs everything to happen in an adaptation like it does in the book. This is why I prefer the Kiera Knightly Pride and Prejudice to the Colin Firth miniseries (Heresy, I know). However, I do ask my adaptations to understand the vision of the original and transmit that into the new medium. A few things about the WoT TV Series have me worried. 

 

1. The fact that Rand is barely even in the trailer. He's the main character! He's the Dragon Reborn and he's got like 2 seconds of screen time in the trailer. I know they're really trying to bank on the "feminist fantasy" angle, but still. 

2. The fact that Rafe Judkin's wiki entry on his Survivor career is three times longer than the one for his writing career. 

3. The trailer shows a lot of Aes Sedai when they're really not in the first book at all. It's like the showrunners thought that the Eye of the World would be boring to adapt because it doesn't have all the magic like books later in the series. As if The Eye of the World isn't one of the greatest fantasy books ever even without that stuff. To me, it shows a lack of faith in the source material which I find disconcerting. 

4. This is gonna sound stupid, and it may not even turn out to be true, but at one point the trailer seems to imply that Rand and Egwene are an item and that they have sex. If this is true, I'm out. Such a huge part of Rand's character is his transformation from naive, innocent farm boy to a rugged, damaged, world weary man, and that early naivety is largely represented by his awkwardness around women. Also, Rand's tendency to put women on a pedestal is something that he's punished for later on in the series when he starts keeping the list of dead women. Rand's immature understanding of women is a huge part of his character, and for him to even be so comfortable around a barely clothed Egwene reeks of what MTV did to The Elfstones of Shannara. Again, not trusting the source material and throwing in stuff to make it more marketable. 

5. The fact that Rafe was so adamant that Rand be polyamorous rather than polygamous. This just shows that Rafe will adapt WoT faithfully... up to the point that he disagrees with it, at which point he will change it into something he's more comfortable with. His ideology first, story and fans second. Say what you want about the GoT showrunners, but they never did anything like this. 

 

Anyway, those are just my thoughts. I've been following this show's development for years, and everything I've ever heard has lead me to believe that it's being made by people who don't care about the books. I still want it to be good, and I'm hoping that these problems are all the result of decisions regarding how to present the show in marketing materials, but I doubt. 

 

Anyway, since the reception of the trailer seems to be overwhelmingly positive, I'm interested to hear why people like it, and what they see in it that I don't. 

I'm trying to figure out how this site works but I commented a little while about agreeing with this but wanted to clarify what this was. Forgive me if I am doing this wrong. 

[CaddySedai]

1 minute ago, Ahzerie2 said:

I'm trying to figure out how this site works but I commented a little while about agreeing with this but wanted to clarify what this was. Forgive me if I am doing this wrong. 

 

Its fine, was pretty clear but thank you for the additional clarification. You are good ?