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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Will we see the GREEN MAN?


templar7
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38 minutes ago, TheMountain said:

For me, WoT isn't WoT without all the cool bits of worldbuilding. Every time you take out something expensive because it only shows up one time or "isn't important overall," the uniqueness of the story suffers and we take one step closer to a generic fantasy.

Sure. But there’s just so damn much of it in WoT that it’s hard to keep it all in. 
 

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19 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Sure. But there’s just so damn much of it in WoT that it’s hard to keep it all in. 
 

 

Exactly the same problem happened in Tolkien’s works and cuts had to be made. Bombadil, old man willow, the siege of the shire, The Barrow wights, etc. 

 

Some times you can cut a ton of content and still end up with something true and wonderful. 

 

Then you go back, make a MMO about it and have all the freedom to include the cut content and even take uncut stuff but pull it back to a more literal interpretation. 

 

All that missing stuff and more was in LOTRO - one of my top four favorite MMO ever (The others being Galaxies and Aion and SWTOR.)

 

And thats what I would like to will into existence. The Wheel Of Time MMO. With a server for roleplaying 🙂 plzkthx. 

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1 hour ago, CaddySedai said:

 

Exactly the same problem happened in Tolkien’s works and cuts had to be made. Bombadil, old man willow, the siege of the shire, The Barrow wights, etc. 

 

Some times you can cut a ton of content and still end up with something true and wonderful. 

 

Then you go back, make a MMO about it and have all the freedom to include the cut content and even take uncut stuff but pull it back to a more literal interpretation. 

 

All that missing stuff and more was in LOTRO - one of my top four favorite MMO ever (The others being Galaxies and Aion and SWTOR.)

 

And thats what I would like to will into existence. The Wheel Of Time MMO. With a server for roleplaying 🙂 plzkthx. 

 

The difference being that Jackson made a movie instead of a series.

If he had made a series I daresay he wouldn't have cut all of that.

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3 minutes ago, Raezold said:

 

The difference being that Jackson made a movie instead of a series.

If he had made a series I daresay he wouldn't have cut all of that.

 

I somewhat disagree. He had 11.2 hours to tell his story. 

 

19.39 if you include the Hobbit. 

 

He could have found the time. He chose not to in order to stretch other scenes out. 

 

Im not dogging him for it, I actually agree with the choices. 

 

Still the fact remains that choices have to be made to cut scenes. Movies do it. Series’ do it. GoT did it, the last craptastic DUNE attempt did it. 

 

But trying to compare the worldbuilding of Dune to Tolkien and Jordan seemed a might unfair so thats why I went with Jackson’s adaptation. 

 

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On 9/10/2021 at 6:41 PM, redgiant said:

 

Um, one of Jordan's strengths is tying all sorts of seemingly innocuous plot points and people/places/things together later ... often MUCH later like across books.

 

Rhuidean...forward and back...AoL...the sequence showing a young Someshta, the banner, the horn, alluding to the remaining younger less tainted male channelers going off to do something (create the untainted pool of Saidin).

 

So now, is all of that reference trashed? God I get mad just thinking about the snowball effect on some of the coolest harkings in the story when things are needlessly omitted or changed like the GM sequence. Because later things will likewise have to be dropped or made utterly moot since their back references are no longer in the story. WoT is full of cases such as this. This is precisely why I loved the books so much, all the webs of relationships not readily apparent until later or you put the pieces together.

 

Btw, what was the budget of this show again? I am tired of hearing about "too expensive" with the money this show has to spend.

 

The way this is going, they'll just have Wile E. Coyote step out of the closet with a sign printed with the name of Asmodean's killer. Why make us poor put-upon audience of 2-year olds have to think, right?

I am very well aware of Jordan's strengths, thank you - there is no need for a passive-aggressive tone. TV and literature are different mediums. You simply cannot expect the TV show to include all of the tiny worldbuilding details, minor characters, etc that flesh out the world of the books. It doesn't work with the constraints of the format. The Green Man is an extremely minor character whose race is completely irrelevant to the rest of the series with the exception of a few Age of Legends flashbacks. Casting him and creating all that CGI is an awful lot of work for a one-off job, and is liable to confuse casual show viewers when this being is never really brought back or expounded upon in any way.

 

The AoL flashback you reference works pretty much just as well without the Green Man. The core of the AoL flashbacks are Lews Therin and the Forsaken, plus the Aiel. The presence of the Nym is some interesting extra flavor, but it's by no means required to convey the core messages needed.

Edited by TheTuna450
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On 9/10/2021 at 7:35 PM, CaddySedai said:

 

Particular Individual? Why so coy? Are you trying not to spoil a plot point or something? Lol. 

LOL...I didn't know if some individuals would come to the forum who haven't read the books yet and would end up getting spoiled.  I mean, it's pretty obvious early on in the book...but the trailer itself seems to be very coy about it...'he' just seems like a background character in the trailer.

 

I was probably also sensitizes as I think I wrote that right after watching Daniel Greene's youtube video ripping on IGN's Trailer review for spoiling major plot points with their explanations about the WOT trailer (e.g. "...and this is foreshadowing her rise to become the Amyrlin Seat."  "Why would you say that?!?!?")

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7 minutes ago, Zyxthior said:

LOL...I didn't know if some individuals would come to the forum who haven't read the books yet and would end up getting spoiled.  I mean, it's pretty obvious early on in the book...but the trailer itself seems to be very coy about it...'he' just seems like a background character in the trailer.

 

I was probably also sensitizes as I think I wrote that right after watching Daniel Greene's youtube video ripping on IGN's Trailer review for spoiling major plot points with their explanations about the WOT trailer (e.g. "...and this is foreshadowing her rise to become the Amyrlin Seat."  "Why would you say that?!?!?")

 

Fair enough. I mean the good news is that if they haven't read the books they'd still have no Idea about any character arcs hehe.

 

You could say that Rand turns into a horribly CGI'd dragon and fights Shao Kahn for the safety of earth in Mortal Kombat and they would have to be....really? huh. lol

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10 hours ago, Zyxthior said:

 

I was probably also sensitizes as I think I wrote that right after watching Daniel Greene's youtube video ripping on IGN's Trailer review for spoiling major plot points with their explanations about the WOT trailer (e.g. "...and this is foreshadowing her rise to become the Amyrlin Seat."  "Why would you say that?!?!?")

That IGN "breakdown" is just terrible. Luckily, Daniel's video is the first result when searching "ign wheel of time" and IGN has got barely any new views since Daniel uploaded his response. Daniel 65k views, IGN 73k and 1k/1,9klike/dislike ratio. Pathetic.

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8 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

To me, the occasional connections back to the AOL is one the very best things about WOT. The Green Man’s brief reappearance in TSR is probably my favorite chapter of the entire series. So talk of cutting things like this hurts my heart. 

There will be many moments that we will all regret not being in the show.  Hopefully we can key on the stuff that we love that is in the show.

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On 9/9/2021 at 2:49 AM, Agitel said:

I have to wonder if the EotW will.be present at all. I know that's heresy, but Jordan never really explains its implications in any way, a first time reader might come away thinking it's just a macguffin.

 

Then again, they could offer more exposition in the show than they did in the books.

  Reveal hidden contents

It being a place of pure saidin specifically to train and prepare the Dragon Reborn so he doesn't go mad. The fact that it was lost hurting the Light's chance of having a sane DR make it to the LB (and part of the DO's plot to turn the Dragon). The fact that it is possible to purify saidin, even in a finite supply sense.

 

Edit: Hmmm... When Rand made saidin pure he had to put the taint somewhere. Where did the Aes Sedai who made the Eye put the taint they filtered it off? Did that expand/create the beginning of the Blight? Sorry, random speculation there.

 

If I think about what purpose did the Eye of the World actually serve in the story?  It provided destination, a reason for adventuring, a vehicle for exposition and a way to identify Rand as "the one" if not yet as "the Dragon". And it allowed Rand to start Channelling without having to explain about the experience of fighting through the taint so early on.     That's about it.   

Another mysterious destination could also provide these things so yep,  the Eye could be cut.    I'd hate it if they do, but I could see it happening.  

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48 minutes ago, Rhettles said:

Channelling without having to ... [fight] through the taint so early on.

Plot wise, this is a very important thing about the Eye. Rand experiencing "pure" saidin is the seed of his idea for the Cleansing.

 

But don't forget the discovery of the Horn and the Banner. Those are important too. But there is no reason they have to be found at/near the Eye or whatever the source of pure saidin is.

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5 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Rand experiencing "pure" saidin is the seed of his idea for the Cleansing.

I think it was the alternating throbbing of the two evil wounds in his side that gave him the idea of how to cleanse Saidin.  I also think the "have to clear rubble before you can build" line might have nudged him in the right direction as well.  And before you say it, yes, I know this is attributed to the breaking of the seals before the last battle, but Herid Fel was a genius so he could have meant both.  I like to think so any way. 

(As a side note, if Fain hadn't kept trying to kill him, would Rand have still figured out how to cleanse Saidin?  🤔

(As another side note, I hope the series gives Padan Fain a more meaningful death than what's in the books).

(As a final side note...  is Fain even in the TV series? 🤣🤣🤣)  

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On 9/12/2021 at 10:23 AM, Guire said:

That is always exactly how I pictured Someshta.  Must be dance he does while singing plants to bloom.

Wouldn't it be BOSS if "the song" to make plants grow etc etc was actually Hip Hop or something  like DJ Easy Rock? 🤣.

All the Aiel singing

"It takes two to make the plants grow Riight! It makes bugs fly out o'sight"  

And The Ogier back up vocals

"keep it deep, keep it low"  

😆

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The beating heart of WOT is that this story and several of its characters span Ages. It's what makes Rand/LT interesting. It's what makes the Forsaken interesting. Take that away, and WOT gets a lot more mundane. The Green Man is the only living being, besides the Forsaken, that is still alive from the AOL. Cutting that would, frankly, suck.

 

All this talk of "you know, they could probably just cut the Eye altogether" is pretty unsettling. There are basically four things that made EOTW a great read: Winternight, Shadar Logoth, The Ways, and the journey into the Blight, past the broken towers of Malkier, to find the Eye. I don't see how you can cut any of that from Season 1. The little Caemlyn interlude is fun, but that can wait. But don't mess with the journey into the Blight.

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1 hour ago, Beidomon said:

All this talk of "you know, they could probably just cut the Eye altogether" is pretty unsettling. There are basically four things that made EOTW a great read: Winternight, Shadar Logoth, The Ways, and the journey into the Blight, past the broken towers of Malkier, to find the Eye. 

 

I don't think that they are going to cut the Eye of The World from the show.  It is maps too nicely onto that Hero of a Thousand Faces structure.  It is a destination.  It opens up the story in some important ways.  I think it stays (with some changes).

 

The Green Man comes down to budget, I think.  It shouldn't be all that expensive to do him but showing him may take away from the budget in other areas. 

 

 On a related thought, does anyone else think that the dead (possible) aiel in the cage is the aiel that tells the tale that sends the party to the Eye of the World?  

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheDreadReader said:

On a related thought, does anyone else think that the dead (possible) aiel in the cage is the aiel that tells the tale that sends the party to the Eye of the World?

I don't think so, but I think it's foreshadowing that we are going to get that scene.

 

In the trailer shot where Mat and Rand are running, it looks to me like they're running from Whitecloaks and that they're somewhere other than the Two Rivers. I think the caged Aiel is found in this same location.

 

If they follow the general plot, Perrin and Egwene will be captured. And we know Whitecloaks Valda and Bornhald have been cast. Perhaps they flipped the Tinker/Whitecloak order and have Perrin and Egwene captured by Whitecloaks who are based in the location where the caged Aiel is seen.

 

Maybe Perrin and Egwene rescue themselves and then run into the Tinkers as they flee. And then Gaul stumbles into camp and tells the tale, only modified such that they ran into Whitecloaks who captured one of them. Could be a chance to do some quick worldbuilding on the Tinker/Aiel hatred. And then big hearted Perrin decides that if the Tinkers won't have him (because he's Aiel), he'll leave with Gaul rather than let him wander off alone. 

 

Idk, just spitballing here.

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9 hours ago, Beidomon said:

To me, the occasional connections back to the AOL is one the very best things about WOT. The Green Man’s brief reappearance in TSR is probably my favorite chapter of the entire series. So talk of cutting things like this hurts my heart. 

I would love to see this adapted to the screen, but I guess I’m apprehensive as to what show-runners consider “important.” I always saw his death as one of the last true deaths of what remained from The Age of Legends. 

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