Trailer Drops Tomorrow

[AusLeviathan]

27 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

Actually, faile is one of those things that were ok for her time, but not for more modern sensibilities.

If they're changing characters to appeal to modern sensibilities then this series is going to run into some big issues.

 

A large part of this series is based around the wide range of characters and cultures that have significant different views of what's morally acceptable, some of which are completely alien to modern thinking. Take that away and you lose the spirit of the books.

[CaddySedai]

51 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

If they're changing characters to appeal to modern sensibilities then this series is going to run into some big issues.

 

A large part of this series is based around the wide range of characters and cultures that have significant different views of what's morally acceptable, some of which are completely alien to modern thinking. Take that away and you lose the spirit of the books.

Fair. We will have to see how it plays out. 

 

We barely have dialogue to work from yet. 

 

Trailer 2 will go a long way in learning more. 

[Beidomon]

3 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

Just 30 years later, we find the whole business appalling. Just as we find appalling Faile's behavior.

Hmmmm… I think the word you meant to use was “annoying.” Horrifically annoying. Like book after book after book of just horrific annoyingness from both Perrin and  Mandarb. 

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

Yeah - I reeeally doubt GoT had 100+ memorable actors. If you're counting extras or people have at least one line - then maybe - but for most people, especially if you're unfamiliar with the books, if you have more than like 30 significant characters they're going to be lost. 

 

So let's do some counting on what I think we'll see from WoT for significant S1 characters:

 

EF5 = 5 

Lan and Moiraine = 2

Karene and Steppin = 2

Suian, Leane, Liandrian, Alanna = 4

Tam= 1

Aram= 1

Fain= 1

Logain= 1

Lolial, Min, Thom, Basil= 4

Bornhald & Valda =2

 

Total = 23

 

Yes I know there are others cast - but how significant is Cenn really gonna be - ehhhh - hard to say. He probably is used for some comedic relief...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

45 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

Hmmmm… I think the word you meant to use was “annoying.” Horrifically annoying. Like book after book after book of just horrific annoyingness from both Perrin and  Mandarb. 

 

Honestly I didn't think Faile was that bad - until I was held in captivity for 1000 pages of annoyingness that was also basically pointless. 

 

Go ahead Rafe. Balefire away. 

The Wheel of Time TV weaves as you will. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Wolfbrother31

[DaddyFinn]

6 hours ago, redgiant said:

The first 4 books needed their own seasons. Period. Maybe even 5 and 6 separate, but if the show took off into the stratosphere like I think it would have had they been more faithful then they could decide down the road.

No. That would mean 10+ seasons as a whole and that's too much.

 

PS. We don't know how faithful the series will be. We have not seen one full episode, one full season let alone the complete series. Don't judge yet.

[king of nowhere]

9 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

If they're changing characters to appeal to modern sensibilities then this series is going to run into some big issues.

 

A large part of this series is based around the wide range of characters and cultures that have significant different views of what's morally acceptable, some of which are completely alien to modern thinking. Take that away and you lose the spirit of the books.

that's true, too.

however, it's strange how it works. I can accept aiel culture, even though it's violent in the extreme and it leads to much pointless death. I can accept the seanchan, with all their slavery. perhaps because they are so alien.

coniugal violence, especially when it's one-sided because one party won't react, is much more disturbing than that; probably because that's not so alien.

it must have to do with the uncanny valley effect.

 

in addition to that, faile is supposed to be a positive character. make her unlikable, make perrin unlikable by reflection, and it can alienate audiences.

they don't need to do a complete flip of faile's personality, they just need to smooth a bit her worst parts, make her a bit more likeable. they can make her more likeable while still being essentially faile.

I'm specifically thinking of jennefer from the witcher, in the tv show they made her substantially less of a jerk and a lot more symphatetic than she was in the book, but they did still keep true to her character

[Tim]

It feels like a lot of discussions regarding certain possible changes to the tv show are quick to leap to the conclusion that such changes are being done for extraneous political reasons rather than to assist with telling the story successfully in a TV medium. In particular, the WOT books spent a lot of time dwelling on characters’ attempts to understand the thinking of other characters but never properly talking about these issues with one another, and there are plot points and character dynamics which wouldn’t make sense in an action and dialogue driven recreation. The more out of step those dynamics are from current community norms, the more time and effort would be required to explain them to TV audiences, likely fruitlessly.
 

The Faile / Perrin relationship dynamic as presented in the books probably wouldn’t translate to the screen regardless of whether it is appropriate to faithfully reproduce, given it largely existed in their respective heads - and was productive of some of RJ’s most wasteful writing, with Perrin interminably wondering why Faile smells hurt etc. - and would be difficult to explain without internal narratives (and would probably be boring even if you could). Sanderson dispatched this entire plot in The Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight with an efficiency that had the feel of taking out the trash.

 

It would of course make sense to maintain Faile as feisty, argumentative, and a natural organiser who pushes Perrin to lead and has limited patience for his introspection (while also being attracted to it).
 

The relationship doesn’t need the overlay of uncomfortable sexual power dynamics in order to feel both broadly faithful to the books and relatively distinct within the world created.

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

4 hours ago, Tim said:

It would of course make sense to maintain Faile as feisty, argumentative, and a natural organiser who pushes Perrin to lead and has limited patience for his introspection (while also being attracted to it).
 

The relationship doesn’t need the overlay of uncomfortable sexual power dynamics in order to feel both broadly faithful to the books and relatively distinct within the world created.

 

Yes. The relationship could be rewritten for TV and the best parts of it kept. Or ... It could be Balefired! ?

 

[Agitel]

On 9/17/2021 at 12:41 AM, DaddyFinn said:

No. That would mean 10+ seasons as a whole and that's too much.

 

PS. We don't know how faithful the series will be. We have not seen one full episode, one full season let alone the complete series. Don't judge yet.

 

I'd watch twenty seasons of a scene for scene adaptation, but I'm a book fanatic. No network would accept that pitch, and it would almost certainly not broaden the appeal beyond those who've read the books multiple times.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Agitel

[DaddyFinn]

4 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

I'd watch twenty seasons of a scene for scene adaptation, but I'm a book fanatic. No network would accept that pitch, and it would almost certainly not broaden the appeal beyond those who've read the books multiple times.

That would be a dream come true ?

[CaddySedai]

33 minutes ago, Agitel said:

it would probably not broaden the appeal beyond those who've read the books multiple times.

And there is the rub. If you honestly want a series that only caters to current readers then you already HAVE it. Its the books, existing art, and the audiobooks. 

 

My sincerest hope is that this adaptation both entertains and amuses existing fans of the work - but brings in new fans.

 

And then they can read the books too end engage in the age old practice of bitching how much better their preferred medium is than the other ?

Edited September 19, 2021 by CaddySedai

[CaddySedai]

My other argument for the series (again… have not seen could still be trash) is that its NEW. I will get to relive the awe and joy of the Wheel as if it were the first read - because I don’t know whats coming next!

 

As much as I am sure we all would love a shot for shot retelling of the books I honestly believe the BEST medium for that would actually be a new Wheel of Time video game series. Faithful to the books either by playing as the characters we know. Or (my preferred method) being a character inserted along side them and LIVING the story. 

 

For the show however I like the idea of being big tent. Recognizable to existing fans but intriguing to new ones. Honor and respect the source but tweak it to fit into a series format better. And if done right could be amazing. Done wrong could be horrible. 

 

But to be honest if they ARE gonna screw up the Wheel… Id rather them screw up a modified version than a perfect series that proves the books don’t translate out of the medium. 

 

Leave my beloved series out of it if thats the result lol. 

Edited September 19, 2021 by CaddySedai

[Agitel]

I also want to say that if I watch the show and feel it's genuinely bad, I'll say so. I think in principle the defenses of some changes I've given make sense and are good, but it'll come down to execution. As an anecdote referring to GOT, when it was first shown that Jamie was going to Dorne in Season 5, I defended the decision as an adaptation. One that could keep a familiar character around as they introduce new characters and plot threads, one that could still play into Jaime's character arc. When I saw how they actually handled it... honestly it was the first moment when the show really jumped the shark with me, and overall felt lazy and like bad writing, and I only feel the show went mostly downhill from there. It's not that they adapted and condensed, I still think the general idea of Jaime going to Dorne is fine, they just botched it. And not just did poorly, it just felt... really bad.

 

But ahead of the season, I'm all for giving the benefit of the doubt. In principle I understand the logic for differences we're seeing. We'll see if they pull it off or not. I think it's certainly possible they pull it off.

[king of nowhere]

16 hours ago, Tim said:

It feels like a lot of discussions regarding certain possible changes to the tv show are quick to leap to the conclusion that such changes are being done for extraneous political reasons rather than to assist with telling the story successfully in a TV medium.

good point. that's the biggest difference between most of us optimists and the naysayers. we all can see that they made pretty relevant changes, thank you so much; but those of us who are optimists think "oh, let's try to make hypothesis on why they changed it; but we start by assuming they had a good reason for it, and it can work" while the others think "they changed this and they could have not changed it. and if they changed this, then they probably changed a lot of other things too, for no reason. it will suck"

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

8 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

while the others think "they changed this and they could have not changed it. and if they changed this, then they probably changed a lot of other things too, for no reason. it will suck"

 

Lol.

 

That's pretty accurate. I think it's easy to have high anxiety when you really enjoyed the books & want the Tv series to be good - and because change is difficult. 

 

But. We'll see soon.