Impressions on a re-read... Is Nynaeve a violent psychopath?

[Wulf]

She breaks brooms over peddlers telling stories about the Dragon. (p301, tGH)

 

In EotW, she would switch men who displeased her.  Men on the village council, I believe.

 

Nearly every 'memory' of Nynaeve is her doing violence to somebody.

 

What do the rest of you think?

[Sabio]

I would say a bully.

[Wulf]

Oh yes, and on the tGH ship journey,Egwene stopped bringing her food after the third bowl was thrown at her.

 

Egwene's trying to feed her, and Nynaeve is literally throwing bowls back at her.  Repeatedly.

[Sabio]

Well after the way Egwene treated Nynaeve in the dream world I don't feel sorry for Egwene.

[DojoToad]

I don’t know that her behavior is pschopathic, but she is definitely a bully. Power gone to her head big time. 

[Wulf]

16 hours ago, Sabio said:

Well after the way Egwene treated Nynaeve in the dream world I don't feel sorry for Egwene.

At this point Egwene is just having flashes from the dreamworld, not doing anything dastardly enough to earn a bowl-throwing.

 

2 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I don’t know that her behavior is pschopathic, but she is definitely a bully. Power gone to her head big time. 

Psychopathic was probably the wrong word, but it seems to go beyond even bullying.  RJ really seems to imply that she'll beat anybody for anything.  Being anywhere near her for an extended period of time would amount to an abusive relationship.  I suppose that's on the same spectrum as bullying though, just to an extreme.

 

I assume RJ wrote each individual incident "for effect", without taking into account what the character would look like when they're taken as a whole.  This isn't just a "fiery temper" adorable character quirk.

[solarz]

18 hours ago, Wulf said:

She breaks brooms over peddlers telling stories about the Dragon. (p301, tGH)

 

In EotW, she would switch men who displeased her.  Men on the village council, I believe.

 

Nearly every 'memory' of Nynaeve is her doing violence to somebody.

 

What do the rest of you think?

 

Where did she switch men on the village council?

 

AFAIK, she's only threatened to switch the main chars, who are little more than boys in EotW.

 

The world of WOT is a violent world. If you transported someone from the 16th century to 2018, they'd seem like a violent psychopath to our modern sensibilities as well.

 

Mat steals pies for fun, and it's depicted as harmless pranks. In our world, he'd be arrested for theft. He also thinks coating dogs in flour and putting badgers in sacks are great fun. In our world, he'd be arrested for animal cruelty.

 

So is Mat a kleptomaniac psychopath? 

[Wulf]

EotW, Ch. 3

"The stick in her hand was thick at one end and a slender switch at the other, and she was liable to give a flail to anybody she thought was acting the fool—head or hands or legs—no matter their age or position."

 

This might be the passage I was thinking of, though I'd remembered it as being more direct.  I'll do some more searching....

[Wulf]

9 minutes ago, solarz said:

The world of WOT is a violent world. If you transported someone from the 16th century to 2018, they'd seem like a violent psychopath to our modern sensibilities as well.

Violent discipline I can understand.

 

Violently throwing bowls, repeatedly, at somebody just trying to feed you is a bit much.

 

Switching a middle aged man of high standing is a really special topic, because violence is just as likely to be met with violence in such a scenario.

[solarz]

20 minutes ago, Wulf said:

Violent discipline I can understand.

 

Violently throwing bowls, repeatedly, at somebody just trying to feed you is a bit much.

 

Switching a middle aged man of high standing is a really special topic, because violence is just as likely to be met with violence in such a scenario.

 

Ever read Dragonlance? I remember one passage where Caramon was telling his sons to keep their mother away from the dishes when they tell her some bad news. So Nynaeve is hardly the only female in fantasy series to like throwing dishes.

 

The passage you quoted is a far cry from switching someone.

[Wulf]

I suppose you're right.

 

But Nynaeve is definitely getting less and less pleasant to be around the more I read, and I don't really remember having a sense of that from my previous readings.

[Sabio]

Nyn was one of the few women in the series I thought actually grew and improved throughout the series.  Eg and Elayne seemed the same from start to finish.

[solarz]

3 hours ago, Wulf said:

I suppose you're right.

 

But Nynaeve is definitely getting less and less pleasant to be around the more I read, and I don't really remember having a sense of that from my previous readings.

 

We all have our own interpretations of what we read, based on our own live experiences. In fact, each re-read is a new experience, as our interpretations change over time. That's one of the great things about WOT.

 

On my first reading of EOTW, the mental image I had of Nynaeve was that of an angry dwarven woman. I played a lot of D&D at the time, lol.

[TheSociopath]

As the series goes on, it does get tiring as she keeps thinking she'd like to box someone or another's ears, a couple of times every time she gets a POV.

[agreddon]

On 2/21/2018 at 2:22 PM, Wulf said:

She breaks brooms over peddlers telling stories about the Dragon. (p301, tGH)

 

In EotW, she would switch men who displeased her.  Men on the village council, I believe.

 

Nearly every 'memory' of Nynaeve is her doing violence to somebody.

 

What do the rest of you think?

i'd really encourage you to read the definition of antisocial personality disorder.  And Nynaeve deals with plenty of others without having to use violence. 

[Guest gal]

Nyn do start as a bit violent and over bearing.

but you need to remember the position she start at.

she is a very young woman who been recently become the village wisdom.

her violent ways and temper is her way to establish her position against all the douth ppl had due to her age.

she felt constantly tested and challenged in her wisdom position.

and as the books continue she grow and become much more likeable.

she started as one of my least favorite char but ended as my favorite

 

[Cheyboygan]

Its VERY clear that switching and other forms of corporal punishment are common and accepted in this world and as the Wisdom of Emmon's Field it was normal for Nyn to do this to the teens she followed from there.  That said there is no question she has a terrible temper and would not be an easy person to be around much of the time.  I didn't like her much for the longest time, but eventually it became clear that she really did care for those she assumed responsibility for.  I'm not sure anyone, excepting maybe Min, proved more loyal to Rand.  I came to respect her enormously and mostly like her by the end.

[Jsbrads2]

While we think of Edmonds Field as a city, it probably functioned more like a family. People knew each other. Mat probably was recounting behavior patterns he exhibited when younger rather something he did last week. Tho stealing cooling pies was not invented by RJ, it is a staple in books and perhaps happened occasionally when people used to cool pies in open windows 100 yrs ago.

It should be noted, women were safe from retribution by men in the Two Rivers, tho Nynaeve could have faced a nasty shock when striking a peddler. I think it more likely that an outsider would complain about being attacked by a local rather than taking things into his own hands, in group preference was much stronger there (eg Nynaeve shouting at Tuon about Rand/Mat?).

I am unclear of Nynaeve’s psychological state, raised alone by a father is okay, but she didn’t seem to have peers either, home schooled until she started her training, her training period was probably very social but even then professional, then when she took on responsibility, she meet everyone but a necessary distance was placed on her... no idea what that would do to a person, she is probably mentally healthy, but badly socialized. Lan didn’t care because he recognized her mental strength and determination, perhaps it reminded him of the best in the borderlands. 

[Elendir]

Nyn has trouble enforcing her authority. No one respects her because of her age, despite being one of the two leaders of the village.
She goes back to violent to enforce her will as a result.  Therefore, she develop this character defect. Across the saga, however, she partially fights with it.

[Sabio]

I think Edmonds field let her get away with too much, hitting Cenn with a stick, threatening people, forcing her way into village council meetings, insulting folks, etc..  The town really should of said enough is enough.  She is basicly a bully ready to strike someone and get her way through intimidation.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Sabio

[Moridin Sedai]

Yeah, she definitely bullies her way around. However, like it was pointed out earlier, she was appointed to a position as Wisdom at a young age and Aes Sedai very young as well. She tries to prove her aptitude by beating anyone who disagrees with her, etc. Probably not the best approach, but definitely entertaining. Nynaeve is a very good character because of her flaws.

[Effete]

Psychopath?

No.

 

But Nyneave is often in the wrong and has trouble admitting it, so her own insecurities manifest as frustration and anger. And because, at their core, they are irrationally held, she cannot justify how she feels through words and resorts to physical violence (or at least the threat of it). I mean, of you look at all the times she shouts, or stomps, or tugs her braid, there is hardly ever a reason for her to truly get upset; most often it's because someone merely disagrees with her, or is doing something she doesn't like (i.e., Elayne sitting with her feet on the bed, or holding Thom's hand, or humming a tune).

 

It's the ultimate irony... the character always calling everyone else a "child" is the one who throws temper tantrums when she doesn't get what she wants.

[Harldin]

Yes, yes,yes. She is the most brutal person alive she treated me terribly, forever pulling me violently.

 

From her Braid