Cliché Mafia - Game Thread (GAME OVER - MAFIA WIN)

[Shad_]

Thoughts on vig holstering in case of manipulative scum PRs?

[LedZepMan]

Nah. We're all in agreement I feel.

 

Blast Marsh, if miss, string up oscar.

 

If not, good game Turin.

[Shad_]

@ Darthe the reason I jump to a 2-scum assumption in 10p ~always is because a village pretty much always gets either two mislynch opportunities or one mislynch and two bad vig shots.  I'm sure there can be alternative builds that accommodate 3, it's just not common even for kitchen sink.

[Shad_]

I keep meaning to vote him but when I do he says something towny and I decide to hold off

 

Yeah basically I'm not seeing much of a counter to this in ISO.  Marsh contradicted his first reason and then claimed he'd forgotten about it when I asked.  LZM responded to his second reason and Marsh followed through on that with a non-read "So it was tied to your case on Turin. Got it".  He votes LZM, I ask him why, I get "The thing is I don't actually have a good reason to think he's scum. I'm lost in this game and he's the only person I've sussed for anything other than inactivity."

 

Marsh isn't displaying any effort to figure LZM out here.  If he's town his suspicions on LZM played out to a vote 100% in his head, and that's not normal from what I'm seeing in his other town games.  He gives a positive or else non-read response to LZM in their conversations.  No demonstration of the struggle--the inner conflict between the towny statements he highlights from LZM and the unstated suspicions that incline Marsh to vote there anyway.  Ultimately it boils down to well, these other guys are all inactive.

 

Maybe give inactives an extended pass is a thing for him?  But Darthe and Dawn at least existed sporadically in the thread.  Oscar was the only player who was MIA.  He asks neither of them anything--and prodding people might not be his gig by and large, but it feels like an all around natural thing to do when you are getting a lot of town vibes from the guy you intend to vote and the quiet people are your other options.

[Shad_]

Vs the most sussed inactive is his scum mate and between Turin and myself both laying into LZM hard yesterday, sheeping a vote onto him feels cleaner than it looks.

[Shad_]

Nah. We're all in agreement I feel.

 

Blast Marsh, if miss, string up oscar.

 

If not, good game Turin.

 

I mean the concern isn't who do you target, it's do scum possess a means to alter it.

 

Basically I don't want to roll into a mylo with an AFK Oscar not around to secure a hammer so we lose 50% of the time even if we've already solved the game.

 

Holstering just seems like a safer play to avoid mechanical uncertainties.

[Shad_]

I've also been in solved games where playing it safe at night lead to a loss because the surviving players derped at lylo and didn't stay the course so /shrug.

[Ironeyes]

 

I like this post. I dislike the scarcity of posts like it from Darthe. Lurking is one of his favorite early-game tactics as scum in my experience

 

Marsh, if you had a gun and you have to shoot someone right now. Who you shooting?

TBH probably Darthe. I feel uncomfortable about him, and unlike Killa (my other sus atp) he isn't giving us much to judge him by.

 

What was your basis for this meta?

 

I was darthe's teammate a few games ago and I was the "front man" who stayed active in the thread. He hung in the back. But this is a moot point cause Darthe is pretty much cleared in my head

 

 

 

Her and iron eyes. They both spouted off about me and Darthe.

 

Might be coincidence. Might not. That's all I'm getting at. Could be simple observation or scum team tactics. Hell if I know.

Maybe she just thought what I said made sense and wanted to expand it. But seriously, if I were scum I definitely would ask my partner(s?) to avoid mirroring me since it's too obvious

 

 

 

Pure coincidence. I actually didn't even see your post about and LZM/Darthe team. If I did, I would've quoted it and expanded on it.

 

This feels like they're both really uncomfortable being grouped together. I'm slowly digging my way through recent Marsh town games and from what I'm seeing if he's suspicious of LZM he's more likely to call him out for potentially stringing up mislynches here than to just "me and Dawn?  Naaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh."

I dislike being grouped with anyone, which also plays into my role. I don't want to reveal it till morning but I will come clean then. 

[Ironeyes]

 

I keep meaning to vote him but when I do he says something towny and I decide to hold off

 

Yeah basically I'm not seeing much of a counter to this in ISO.  Marsh contradicted his first reason and then claimed he'd forgotten about it when I asked.  LZM responded to his second reason and Marsh followed through on that with a non-read "So it was tied to your case on Turin. Got it".  He votes LZM, I ask him why, I get "The thing is I don't actually have a good reason to think he's scum. I'm lost in this game and he's the only person I've sussed for anything other than inactivity."

 

Marsh isn't displaying any effort to figure LZM out here.  If he's town his suspicions on LZM played out to a vote 100% in his head, and that's not normal from what I'm seeing in his other town games.  He gives a positive or else non-read response to LZM in their conversations.  No demonstration of the struggle--the inner conflict between the towny statements he highlights from LZM and the unstated suspicions that incline Marsh to vote there anyway.  Ultimately it boils down to well, these other guys are all inactive.

 

Maybe give inactives an extended pass is a thing for him?  But Darthe and Dawn at least existed sporadically in the thread.  Oscar was the only player who was MIA.  He asks neither of them anything--and prodding people might not be his gig by and large, but it feels like an all around natural thing to do when you are getting a lot of town vibes from the guy you intend to vote and the quiet people are your other options.

 

There's a reason I've been wishy washy this game, aside from limited time. Again, I'll explain next day phase. 

 

Also ignoring inactives is kind of a thing of mine. Probably a bad habit, but it comes down to how little I like lynching essentially blind

[thehumantrashcan]

Hey, sorry for no posting, had my wife's birthday today so I'm catching up now from page 35 on up.  Hopefully I didn't miss anything too important. Posting before even really checking anything.

[thehumantrashcan]

Wow, I had a whole thing written up on my thoughts and I clicked the previous page without thinking and lost it all.  In short, I'm still learning, this is only my second game.  Sorry this weekend has been crazy with my wife and her twin sister's birthday.  I organized a surprise one for my wife last night and then the family thing today.  Whew.  I'm tired.  I'm caught up on all the posts since I subbed in and man I wish I hadn't subbed and just joined the game from the beginning.  You guys are fun to play with.  Ok, so I'll have to agree with the town being Killa (indisputable of course) and LZM.  His read on Killa and then realization and then back and forth with Shad makes it pretty clear to me.  I apologize for my absence and completely understand the suss on me and hope to dispel that today/tomorrow.  With that said, I'm glad to see that the suss on at least one of the inactive players was correct.  I'm trying to understand all this stuff about 3rd party characters.  I don't have any experience with that as all my experience stems from playing in RL and we never used 3rd party people, just roles for town/mafia.  I don't fully follow the idea of 3 wolf vs 2 wolf and how a 3rd party would effect that.  Sorry, noob question.

 

As for the break down of Marsh, I think I do need to do some more digging because what is being shared by Shad does make him see suss.  I'm trying to understand people's thoughts about Darthe.  Turin seems solid but why do people keep pointing out that he could be having his best game ever and if he is, he deserves to win.  I'm sorry but that makes me want to be completely suss of him and kill him because I don't care if someone plays awesome and deserves to win, I want to win, not the deserving guy!  Don't want to vote until I get my head around all of this a little better.  This is why I didn't just hop online for a little bit yesterday or earlier today to hop on a band wagon or make a gut vote.  Never like doing that.  Anyways, I'm off to bed and hope to check in periodically tomorrow while I'm at work.  The joys of a desk job and a very relaxed work environment.  Good night ya'll

[Turin Turambar]

I think we might just be best off lynching Marsh and hope that solves it. I am worried that since we have had 6 pretty solid town roles either hinted or claimed or confirmed and only a GF to show from the mafia team there is either a twist or a pretty big mafia power still out there.

 

Marsh, I can't think what role you could possibly have that would make you a bigger target than the IC or tracker. If you have something to share I suggest earlier than later.

[Ironeyes]

If I share now I'll get shot, I'm pretty sure. Of course if I share in the morning it'll probably get me lynched. Unfortunately I don't see a path that leads to me surviving the game

[Ironeyes]

I'll get shot by the vig, not mafia.

[Turin Turambar]

Well, if you are town then you don't have to personally survive, you just need town to find mafia.

 

 

If you don't come up with something better than that you might get shot anyway.

[Ironeyes]

I need town to find mafia and I need to survive the game or I lose

[LedZepMan]

I already don't like this. I'm pretty set on my decision.

 

If marsh survives the night that is.

[Ironeyes]

And that is why I can no longer win this game. Even if you guys kill me and then find the last scum, I lose. It sucks.

[Turin Turambar]

Then you should be working you tail off to survive the night by finding and making a good case on the last mafia. 

 

Cause claiming survivor in the morning isn't likely to keep you from dying. 

 

Start helping town or your death is pretty much assured. 

[Ironeyes]

I've been trying. I started the game with the strategy of pretending I was town since I thought it would be a lot more likely to win that way. I'm just a terrible player.

 

Town as I see it is Killa, Turin, Led, and Darthe, in that order. I'm harmless. And that leaves Oscar. If I'm alive tomorrow I'm putting my vote on him and leaving it there

[Ironeyes]

*thought I would be a lot more likely to win

 

Subtle difference but that typo changes the meaning of the sentence quite a bit

[Shad_]

I need town to find mafia and I need to survive the game or I lose

Are you claiming that you have to win with town or that you prefered to win with town?

[Ironeyes]

 

I need town to find mafia and I need to survive the game or I lose

Are you claiming that you have to win with town or that you prefered to win with town?

I prefer to win with town, especially since there's now no other way to win. I made my choice early and I'm not going back on it.

 

My existence all but confirms that there's only one scum left, and my only feasible path to victory is for us to lynch him.

[Shad_]

I mean theoretically if we believe you and lynch Oscar tomorrow and it turns out scum was actually a deep wolf in Turin/Darthe/Zep, you still win, no?

[Ironeyes]

No, because I become an automatic lynch at mylo or lylo to gain extra time. If I tried to win with scum I'd die first.