who is Mat?

[Joanna63]

who do you think Mat is supposed to be? I thought he was Artur Hawkwing, but that cant be him because AH was present when the horn was blown. He must be someone known in the histories like Rand is Lews Therin etc....he's a great battle leader...the red hand...who was the leader of Manetheren...aemon??? hmmm interested in your thoughts.

[T00thbrush]

I do not think Mat is supposed to be anyone as special as Hawkwing or Aemon. He is not someone, rather he has the memories of many men, who for the most part were all involved in armies, hence his incredible military knowledge.

[moratcorlm]

Many people believe he was Aemon in a former life, because of the memories that surface in the first three books, culminating in the flashback during "Awakening" in TDR. But I think the fact that Hawkwing and the Heroes do not greet him familiarly, like they do Rand, suggests he was not a Hero of the Horn – though who knows; maybe the etiquette is not to greet their fellows during life when the Horn calls them, as they shouldn't remember who they are, and Rand, as the Dragon, is just a special case.

[NetSlider]

Many people believe he was Aemon in a former life, because of the memories that surface in the first three books, culminating in the flashback during "Awakening" in TDR. But I think the fact that Hawkwing and the Heroes do not greet him familiarly, like they do Rand, suggests he was not a Hero of the Horn – though who knows; maybe the etiquette is not to greet their fellows during life when the Horn calls them, as they shouldn't remember who they are, and Rand, as the Dragon, is just a special case.

 

Aemon does sound like a perfect fit and the Awakening's flashback is awesome!!!

[Shob]

Demandred of course. Always second to Rand in everything. And he certainly envies Rand quite a lot. Especially the girls.

 

Lets look at the list of girls Mat tried to flirt with: Elsa, that cook in Caemlyn (who thought that Rand was some kind of prince), Berelain, Isendre. All were ditched by Rand first.

After that he end up with that maiden of the spear. Around the same time Rand was literally addopted by them a Mat noted how "he doesn`t envy him that (most of the time)".

And of course everytime we see Elayne or Aviendha from his POV he is always saying how pretty they are etc.

[blazetheearth]

Many people believe he was Aemon in a former life, because of the memories that surface in the first three books, culminating in the flashback during "Awakening" in TDR. But I think the fact that Hawkwing and the Heroes do not greet him familiarly, like they do Rand, suggests he was not a Hero of the Horn – though who knows; maybe the etiquette is not to greet their fellows during life when the Horn calls them, as they shouldn't remember who they are, and Rand, as the Dragon, is just a special case.

 

Aemon does sound like a perfect fit and the Awakening's flashback is awesome!!!

 

I had a thought about Mat's memories. I have to wonder what the criteria were for the memories that were given to Mat. Obviously they had to come from military leaders, but it seems beyond reasonable randomness or chance that the Finns chose only "good" men/ Light-sider memories. But we know from his reminiscences of the 'other men's' memories in EB that of those men ever forced his attentions on a woman. Gathering memories for over 1500 years from soldiers, and none of them ever "forced his attention" on a woman? It seems that none of those memories are from those that might follow the Shadow, or even Shadow-controlled forces (note in CoT he remembers AH's face twice, once at a social function before Ishy became his adviser, then on a battlefield;d after Ishy controlled Hawkwing). Did the Finn's sort through and only give him Light-side memories? We know that some of the generals for Hawkwing were better than the generals that faced him, but Mat's memories are from the losing side of those fights. Why wouldn't they give him the memories of the "Best Generals" that they had access to, and I can't believe that only Light-siders used the Redstone Doorway in those same 1500 years.

 

As far as who Mat is, well ... Mat is Mat, and that is just about enough for anyone to be going on with.

[NetSlider]

Many people believe he was Aemon in a former life, because of the memories that surface in the first three books, culminating in the flashback during "Awakening" in TDR. But I think the fact that Hawkwing and the Heroes do not greet him familiarly, like they do Rand, suggests he was not a Hero of the Horn – though who knows; maybe the etiquette is not to greet their fellows during life when the Horn calls them, as they shouldn't remember who they are, and Rand, as the Dragon, is just a special case.

 

Aemon does sound like a perfect fit and the Awakening's flashback is awesome!!!

 

I had a thought about Mat's memories. I have to wonder what the criteria were for the memories that were given to Mat. Obviously they had to come from military leaders, but it seems beyond reasonable randomness or chance that the Finns chose only "good" men/ Light-sider memories. But we know from his reminiscences of the 'other men's' memories in EB that of those men ever forced his attentions on a woman. Gathering memories for over 1500 years from soldiers, and none of them ever "forced his attention" on a woman? It seems that none of those memories are from those that might follow the Shadow, or even Shadow-controlled forces (note in CoT he remembers AH's face twice, once at a social function before Ishy became his adviser, then on a battlefield;d after Ishy controlled Hawkwing). Did the Finn's sort through and only give him Light-side memories? We know that some of the generals for Hawkwing were better than the generals that faced him, but Mat's memories are from the losing side of those fights. Why wouldn't they give him the memories of the "Best Generals" that they had access to, and I can't believe that only Light-siders used the Redstone Doorway in those same 1500 years.

 

As far as who Mat is, well ... Mat is Mat, and that is just about enough for anyone to be going on with.

 

At one point Mat actually think and/or says that those men (memories) were not nice at all and he needs to drink a lot to forget...i'm sure he just got better at ignoring the bad ones.

[randsc]

Is it a spoiler if we tell the OP that Mat is the Dark One? I'm not sure how far into the books we are supposed to take the 'no spoilers' thing. If it is too much of a spoiler, please delete this post.

[NetSlider]

Is it a spoiler if we tell the OP that Mat is the Dark One? I'm not sure how far into the books we are supposed to take the 'no spoilers' thing. If it is too much of a spoiler, please delete this post.

 

HA-HA!!! Don't listen to him/her, he/she joking (sorry, don't know your gender)

[Joanna63]

haha....I've read the entire series, doing maybe my fourth reread....havent been able to bounce this stuff off others before, and actually have a bit of spare time atm (although I have wondered how far the 'spoilers' go too hhe).

 

I think he could be Aemon (?) too.....he subconsiously shouted 'for the honour of manetheren' (or whatever it was) in the old tongue when he first faced a battle (which was before the foxes and snakes stuff, because I was thinking about whether his 'stuff' was kind of gifted to him there or he had 'it' before/naturally...so he had it before the foxes/doorways stuff).

 

Might be a coming of age thing like channelling is and Perrin's gifts....okay, so does anyone know who Rogosh Eagle Eye was in the history?

 

However, the Seachan connection/Tuon seems to tie him to Artur hawkwing (who was the father the original leader of the seachan invasion sent via Hawkwing previously, thus the 'return'). Anyhow, whoever Mat's supposed to be channelling he is one of my favourite characters :)

[A2597]

Erm.

 

He's Odin. Thought that was pretty obvious.

[blazetheearth]

haha....I've read the entire series, doing maybe my fourth reread....havent been able to bounce this stuff off others before, and actually have a bit of spare time atm (although I have wondered how far the 'spoilers' go too hhe).

 

I think he could be Aemon (?) too.....he subconsiously shouted 'for the honour of manetheren' (or whatever it was) in the old tongue when he first faced a battle (which was before the foxes and snakes stuff, because I was thinking about whether his 'stuff' was kind of gifted to him there or he had 'it' before/naturally...so he had it before the foxes/doorways stuff).

 

Might be a coming of age thing like channelling is and Perrin's gifts....okay, so does anyone know who Rogosh Eagle Eye was in the history?

 

 

I'm not sure about what part Rogosh might have played through out history, but he was at Falme when Mat blew the Horn, so Mat can't be Rogosh-Reborn.

 

Here's what the EWoT says about references to him:

 

 

Other References

• TEotW,Ch17 - Thom tells stories related to the Great Hunt of the Horn including stories about Rogosh of Talmour, Rogosh Eagle-eye, in Artur Hawkwing's court.
• TGH,Ch26 - Thom is incensed because Seaghan, the theater manager, wants to hire actors to portray characters of the Great Hunt of the Horn such as Rogosh Eagle-eye.
• TFoH,Ch24 - In The Flame, the Blade and the Heart, Egwene reads about Rogosh Eagle-eye and Dunsinin.

So basically we know that his fame rose during Hawkwing's time. But not much else.

[white_wolf]

While we don't know for sure who Mat is(Personally I am leaning toward's Aemon.) We do know that he is of the line of Aemon,it is stated in Eye of the World. Which you know does make it a good thing that perrin never raised the banner of Manetheron since by line of succession Mat would be the rightful ruler of that realm and not Perrin.

[Whatsie]

I was under the impression that Aemon had no heir. And I just finished Eye the other day (again), and I don't remember where it says Mat is descended from Aemon... Just that the Two Rivers folk are all descendents of Manetheren. Having said that, there is no reason a non-descendant couldn't be Aemon reincarnated.

 

Another thought (though I haven't read the Toman Head sequence in years) is that he is THE Hornsounder. As in, he is ALWAYS the one who sounds it, and is reborn whenever it needs to happen.

[white_wolf]

I was under the impression that Aemon had no heir. And I just finished Eye the other day (again), and I don't remember where it says Mat is descended from Aemon... Just that the Two Rivers folk are all descendents of Manetheren. Having said that, there is no reason a non-descendant couldn't be Aemon reincarnated.

 

Another thought (though I haven't read the Toman Head sequence in years) is that he is THE Hornsounder. As in, he is ALWAYS the one who sounds it, and is reborn whenever it needs to happen.

Well I can't remember the exact quote, but I do remember something along the lines of at least speculation by Moriane that Mat is of Aemon's line, and I also remembering Mat, Rand, and Perrin all thinking that perhaps the Shadow was after Mat since he could be Aemon's heir. Of course I could be wrong that was speculation on their and Moriane's part.

[moratcorlm]

“Carai an Caldazar,” Moiraine said. They all twisted to stare at her. “Carai an Ellisande. Al Ellisande. For the honor of the Red Eagle. For the honor of the Rose of the Sun. The Rose of the Sun. The ancient warcry of Manetheren, and the warcry of its last king. Eldrene was called the Rose of the Sun.” Moiraine’s smile took in Egwene and Mat both, though her gaze may have rested a moment longer on him than on her. “The blood of Arad’s line is still strong in the Two Rivers. The old blood still sings.”

 

Mat and Egwene looked at each other, while everyone else looked at them both. Egwene’s eyes were wide, and her mouth kept quirking into a smile that she bit back every time it began, as if she was not sure just how to take this talk of the old blood. Mat was sure, from the scowling frown on his face.

 

Rand thought he knew what Mat was thinking. The same thing he was thinking. If Mat was a descendant of the ancient kings of Manetheren, maybe the Trollocs were really after him and not all three of them. The thought made him ashamed. His cheeks colored, and when he caught a guilty grimace on Perrin’s face, he knew Perrin had been having the same thought.

It is unclear who Arad is.

[trench]

I always liked Thom's expliation off the whole thing. It happens in Shaddar Logoth while the boys were tending the horses, before they explored the city. Chapter 19 Shadows Waiting.

 

"The Old Blood she said. The Blood, not a dead man. Ive heard it can happen, somrtimes. Heard, though I never really thought... It was your roots, boy. A line running from your father, right back to Manetheren, and maybe beyond..."

 

IMO it shows that Mat is not a reincartion of any particular person, but a decedant of Manetheren. Maybe it's his own Ta'veren effect giving him his own ancestors memories to use in battle.

[Lupy]

I like the idea that the Hornsounder is a soul spun out when he is needed. Hawkwing did address him afterall, but as the Hornsounder and not by name... Hm...

[Whatsie]

Oh good, I'm glad I remembered that bit right :-)

[Whatsie]

I just finished GH the other day... Hawkwing referred to him as "Trumpeter" not hornsounder. I think maybe Birgitte called him Hornsounder in the OT, later in the series. So, maybe not.

[Mulk]

"Speak we what language, Sounder of the Horn?"

 

I think that's the quote. And yes, it was Birgitte, when Mat remembers her in Ebou Dar.

[Finnssss22]

Matt is Aemon reborn, this shouldn't even be an argument, tDR chpt 19 leaves us no doubt of that.

 

RJ said himself in a Q&A session that not all of Matt's memories are from his past lives and they are mostly of people who either entered one of the two doorway's or the Tower itself. He also hinted that many more entered the Tower itself than the actual doorway's.

 

All that said however, the memories he has prior to "getting his holes filled" are his and of his lineage.

 

He is Aemon reborn, no doubt about it imo.

 

Furthermore, his battle knowledge comes part from having the memories of being a general here and there in the past but far more of it imo comes from simply being a part of so many battles in one form or another.

Even the lowest of soldiers in rank understand how a battle was won or lost and what happened.

Matt also seems to understand every rank and position more personally than most because he has the memories of being each, from a lowly pikeman to an actual general.

[Durinax]

mat is not the eternal Hornsounder just like perrin is not the eternal Flag Bearer

 

its just waht hawkwing addressed him as in lieu of name

 

dont know why there are eternal theories about people being someone important reborn. . . Mat is mat cauthon no one else.

[Finnssss22]

dont know why there are eternal theories about people being someone important reborn. . . Mat is mat cauthon no one else.

 

 

Because the first thing after his "healing" in the White Tower, is vividly remembering the final battle defending Manetheren through Aemon's eyes no less.

 

No offense but I don't think there is any "theory" involved, only fact.

[Goldencrane33]

I also believe that Mat must be Aemon. However he has been blessed w not only his own past life knowledge, but all of the greatest hero's memories. I think this is an important fact to consider because I think that either Padan Fain or a Forsaken will blow the Horn of Valere in the final battle. This will then allow a Bad Ass confrontation between all the heroes of the horn to fight against Mat/Aemon and the Band of The Red Hand. Mat's knowledge of all of them mixed in with his bloodline's will to win and never surrender mentality will make Mat the Bloodiest Hero of all Time.