Ghostbusters Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Wins!

[Zander?]

I am here, still, and able to read. Don't expect any WoT from me, though.

 

Turin is Town regardless of flip, IMO.

 

BFG, RTE, Hallia, Niniel, Rey - Null to scummish (not in any order

Alanna - Scummish

Zander - Town/3d Party

Lenlo - Null to Townish 

Turin, Dice, Eldrick, Shad - Townish

Tsuki - Town Confirmed

 

2 things:

 

Can you give some reasoning for your reads please?

 

And Turin is Town regardless of my flip but only Townish in your reads?  Im not sure I follow,  I would think you'd have him as Town. Can you please explain.

[Zander?]

Zander, what do you think of Alanna and BFG this game?

 

Its like exact opposites.

 

BFG started out weakly but seems to be coming on.  I liked her reads list for the most part.

 

Alanna started off strong and is losing steam.  She went from being engaged and present to not.

 

I see the former as more then likely Townish while the latter being more then likely scummy.

 

That being said, Alanna's mentioned RL stuff and from my own experience last game and this game I understand even more so how that can effect game play.

 

Really want to see more from both.

[Ithillian Turambar]

 

Official Vote Count - Day 1

 

Zander (5/7): Turin, Rey, RTE, Hallia, Niniel

Alanna (1/7): Tsuki

Rey (1/7): Dice

RTE (1/7): Zander

Dice (2/7): Lenlo, Eldrick

 

Not voting: BFG, Shad, Alanna

 

With 13 alive it takes 7 to achieve a majority Lynch.

 

Day 1 deadline is set for Wednesday 14 April @ 9 PM BST

 

Day 1 Deadline Countdown

 

 

49 hours left ...

[Turin Turambar]

Zander, I'm not gonna do a bunch of quoting about Eldrick right now but off the top of my head his idea that shad was mafia because he had fooled him before and dice? Was townie because he had misread him mafia in the past.

 

His change of position wrt you is another. He was all for your lynch then follows dice to Rey with the idea that it is on part to prevent an early hammer. Then using what feels like weak reasons seems to put you, Rey and Dice all about equal likelihood of being mafia. Looks like he is just avoiding voting you. Which could be TMI on his part should you flip town or mafia trying to protect a teammate if you flip mafia( or just LOL Eldrick).

 

I can try to locate Quotes and such tomorrow.

 

As for Tsuki he does have me in his highest group other than himself.

 

Whatever dice is dealing with I hope it gets better. Which confusion are you referring to BTW?

 

As to BFG and Alanna, gun to your head which do you think more likely mafia?

[alannalynn]

I'm here now

 

Sorry that I wasn't around, I only missed 17 pages so I"m going to catch up on those real quick. I spent the weekend NOT playing mafia and it was pretty nice. Someone be proud of me? >_>

*Breaking this up as I go along because apparently I'm typing more words than I expect to.

A few thoughts before I pick up where I left off. I was kind of iffy on the whole Turin/Zander/Dice situation. I was reading Turin and Zander town and Dice as ???. With the information about the QT, I think that Turin is town independently of Zander, because I just don't see scum!Turin bringing to light the neighbors aspect and trying to throw Zander under the bus if he knows Zander will flip town. Additionally, his posts irt Zander have come off as sincere to me.

My PROBLEM comes when I think about Zander. I've been town reading him for a few reasons which I can't articulate and I'm not ready to vote him as of right now because I'm not confident enough that he could be scum.

Dice is still ??? for me. *ISO

#580 and other catch up posts by Hally feel very townie to me; they're not like the posts she had in the last game, which didn't feel genuine and towny. These actually ring true and are believeable from her. I'll happily slot Hally town.

Kind of disagree with Hally's point at the bottom of 580 irt Eldrick assigning alignments to Shad and Dice based on other games. I think it shows a bit of uncertainty for him which is good, even though it isn't a good method. I've actually assigned alignments to people in games that I found null because I could always correct them later with more information.

At the same time, there is nothing wrong with finding someone null and saying they're null, which is a little lazy. BUT sometimes you have an inherent distrust/trust for someone through reasons you can't quite explain.

tl;dr I'm not going to shoot Eldrick down for trying to provide reads he doesn't believe in because he has nothing better right now.

#586 Shad you asked about my inconsistency irt Turin/Zander v/w or v/v, which I'm having a legit struggle with. At first I was reading v/v separately, then with Turin's talk about the iffy-ness on the QT, that makes Zander look bad, so I was swayed by that talk, hence the post I made that you're referring to. But from what I've super-skimmed up to the current point, I'm struggling to see wolf!Zander. I doubt I'll see anything different reading more in depth. To some extent, I'm hesitant from last game because I was SO SURE he was a wolf and then he flipped town and I got to feel like crap the rest of the game. Hopefully that makes sense?

#587 Interesting point from Eldrick re: Dice and TMI on Turin/Zander's alignments. I think anyone pushing that neighbors have to be of different alignments is trying to set up lynches. Two birds with one stone (two lynches??) or something like that

I think Eldrick is really townie, fwiw.

#597 Zander makes an interesting point here and it's one that's making me wary of his lynch. From what I gather, Zander posted with another name when he went into the QT and Turin gathered who was in the QT by means of who was also currently posting in thread, which is when Zander switched to his name. Either this is a huge slip up and Zander inciminated himself. Or he was just as suspicous of Turin and came in all "stranger-danger" first but Turin beat him to the punch on the "you're the scum" line. To some extent I expect Zander to own up to his townieness as scum, not be hesitant entering a QT.

That's worded awkwardly... what I mean is town!Zander MAY be suspicious getting in there which caused his posting awkardness in the QT. Wolf!Zander would try to be as townie as possible to cover his wolfiness, not make a huge slip up immediately after entering the QT.

Y'all this is where I'm stuck.

Didn't get very far yet, there are a lot of words, stopping top of page 31?
 

[alannalynn]

Uhhhh sooo after I catch up I need to nap, and thennnn finish up a paper, so hopefully I'll leave enough on thread for discussion while I rest lol

[alannalynn]

And it is him. He is now doubly confirmed as mafia to Me.

 

He needs to go.

 

One final thought on this. Z proclaims he didn't want to use the QT to assist in getting a read on Me because he couldn't use it to prove his case. I would say this is a mafia mindset. Townies would be more concerned about getting the read right. Because if we could have taken away the doubt them it is better for town. We would have in effect turned.ourselves into masons(at least to ourselves). This is a powerful thing. That he basically went in the complete opposite direction is very telling to me.

Turin how well is Zander at making cases on other players in the game?

[Ithillian Turambar]

I'm proud of you Alanna :)

 

Yup it's not been too bad on the posting level.

[Lenlo]

I am here, still, and able to read. Don't expect any WoT from me, though.

 

Turin is Town regardless of flip, IMO.

 

BFG, RTE, Hallia, Niniel, Rey - Null to scummish (not in any order

Alanna - Scummish

Zander - Town/3d Party

Lenlo - Null to Townish 

Turin, Dice, Eldrick, Shad - Townish

Tsuki - Town Confirmed

This is such a weird list.

[Niniel]

 

 

 

 

I´ll see if it works this time. Internet hasn´t worked at all where I am. Now I´m on my way to sleep. I´ll post tomorrow before work instead. Will take a look at RTE then. I unvoted because Lenlo asked me to before but I´ll revote.

 

[v] Zander [/v]

Who else do you think is Scum beside me and why?

 

Other then the Neighbors stuff what about mine and Turin's game did you like and dislike?

 

It´s day 1. I can´t start to connect people when I don´t know your alignment. Right now I´m focused on you and I don´t see that I will change my vote today. (Unless something big happens.) It´s not that I´m discouraging people to talk but right now I just want day to end and see how you (or whover get lynched) flipps. I don´t think I will get wiser today the more people write.

I disagree about the connecting part. Its not that someone always can but theres usually stuff that does.

 

So what will my Town flip tell you?

 

Focusing on only one person is something you consider Towny behavior?

I'll not speculate on that yet.

 

It's not that I chose to pick you and leave everyone else. It's just that I feel that the case against you is good so I'm sticking to it.

[Niniel]

Just like I think you should have sticked with Turin if you knew he was lying.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

 

Ok caught up.

 

Two things strike me the most.

 

First Dice changing from we need to resolve Turin and Zander today to moving off both of them entirely. I believe Turin is town. If Zander was to flip town I would take a hard look at Dice next (and that answers your question about that that you've asked everyone).

 

Second, nothing Zander has done has given me reason to think he's town. His insistence to discredit QT content is just plain and simply not a town stance. He's been defensive more than reasonable. Finally I just don't understand him moving off Turin, regardless if it's to me or not. I don't buy that he's doing it because he doesn't see a Turin lynch happening when most of the rest of the game is trying to resolve their roles and alignment. How he doesn't see Turin as a viable lynch is beyond me, and especially if he is so adamant that he is scum, with extra information to go on based on a QT as well. That he attempts to start a new train entirely when his reasoning is that the Turin lynch won't happen and he ll do anything to stay alive doesn't make sense either. Then you'd think he'd have placed his vote on the second largest train, assuming he is a townie who would rather risk anyone else dying but himself. So to me he isn't doing what would make the most sense to save himself, when IIRC that was his reasoning for moving off Turin.

 

Lenlo has been posting well and I agree with most of what he's said. He's solid town for me right now. Dice is still null but definite scum lean for his stepping out of the Turin Zander voting. Hallia's posts don't look out of place and I had John as my strongest town read. Townie vibes for eldrick and shad. One thing I'm not following is the case on Rey. I'd like to see some new stuff from him but liked his past posts. I guess I had a really good feel about the tone of his posts but perhaps that in itself isn't enough at this point. That being said I'm not one to comment on contributing at this point.

 

Why do you think scum!Dice would be more likely to protest a lynch on Turin/Zander if they're v/v, under the circumstances?

 

 

 

It would be easily be the best move for scum!anyone IMO

[ReleaseTheEvil]

@Hally You never answered me. Why did you say Rey's lynch isn't happening today?

 

@Turin If you are right about Zander being scum, who do you think his teammates are?

 

@Everyone If Zander flips town, what does this say about Turin? Is he scum for pushing this on Zander?

 

 

No, Turin is town regardless imo.

 

+1

[Turin Turambar]

 

And it is him. He is now doubly confirmed as mafia to Me.

 

He needs to go.

 

One final thought on this. Z proclaims he didn't want to use the QT to assist in getting a read on Me because he couldn't use it to prove his case. I would say this is a mafia mindset. Townies would be more concerned about getting the read right. Because if we could have taken away the doubt them it is better for town. We would have in effect turned.ourselves into masons(at least to ourselves). This is a powerful thing. That he basically went in the complete opposite direction is very telling to me.

Turin how well is Zander at making cases on other players in the game?

Your question is awkwardlt worded to me and I'm not sure what you are asking tbh. If the question is how good is Zander at getting people lynched then I would say very good. His cases tend to revolve around individual meta play which I don't really use and therefore don't really understand.

 

I'm also not sure what his casing ability has to do with my point that the more town play is to try to formulate a correct read on the other neighbor in the QT where it is private not immediately assume they are mafia. I really don't think this requires explaining but if anyone does want to hear my opinions then lmk.

[Reyoru]

His change of position wrt you is another. He was all for your lynch then follows dice to Rey with the idea that it is on part to prevent an early hammer. Then using what feels like weak reasons seems to put you, Rey and Dice all about equal likelihood of being mafia. Looks like he is just avoiding voting you. Which could be TMI on his part should you flip town or mafia trying to protect a teammate if you flip mafia( or just LOL Eldrick).

 

For what its worth, I quite like the way Eldrick seems to be playing the game, and how he frames his thoughts, but yeah I've been wondering why it is he's been gunning after me so hard. Despite his own self-admitted lack of evidence. 

[alannalynn]

 

 

 

And it is him. He is now doubly confirmed as mafia to Me.

 

He needs to go.

 

One final thought on this. Z proclaims he didn't want to use the QT to assist in getting a read on Me because he couldn't use it to prove his case. I would say this is a mafia mindset. Townies would be more concerned about getting the read right. Because if we could have taken away the doubt them it is better for town. We would have in effect turned.ourselves into masons(at least to ourselves). This is a powerful thing. That he basically went in the complete opposite direction is very telling to me.

Turin how well is Zander at making cases on other players in the game?

 

 

Your question is awkwardlt worded to me and I'm not sure what you are asking tbh. If the question is how good is Zander at getting people lynched then I would say very good. His cases tend to revolve around individual meta play which I don't really use and therefore don't really understand.

 

I'm also not sure what his casing ability has to do with my point that the more town play is to try to formulate a correct read on the other neighbor in the QT where it is private not immediately assume they are mafia. I really don't think this requires explaining but if anyone does want to hear my opinions then lmk.

 

I actually was trying to make a point, assuming a town!Zander.

 

Zander "cases" based on what people see in the thread. He quotes and tells people to read and see what he sees and his unmatchable WiM pretty much drives people to vote just to quiet him down sometimes. So the point is that, if Zander was so distrustful of you in the QT because he saw "neighbors" and assumed v/w and not the potential for v/v, then he's going to want those interactions ITT, not in a QT. His style of casing does not allow for him to achieve a lynch on who he thinks is scum if his only reference point is a QT and is basically hearsay.

 

I guess this would also work the same if he were scum. He can't lynch you if he "gets his read" from a QT. He can only do that with in-thread interactions which he can reference back to.

[Turin Turambar]

Alanna, I didn't "beat him to the punch" as you are saying. I gave him time to change his tune. I even gave him a tiny bit of insight on Rey. His first posts were taking a stance that I MUST be mafia. Not that I could be because he was town. He used that twisted bit about we can't both be town cause then we would be masons. There is a reason that the neighbor role exists. Game balance. They are an extra level to be solved. A two bladed sword like a vig. People that say one or the other must be mafia just because the alignments aren't confirmed are failing to understand how the game is played.

[alannalynn]

Next section...

 

 

Do I think Zander as either alignment might go "awh s--- he knows who I am" and reveal in QT?
Yes?

Shad I want you to look at my point in my last post irt Zander as scum, and how he would act in QT. Let me know what you think irt his character?

#606 Zander kind of says what I was thinking. Zander cares more about his image as scum (appearing townie) than to make such a large blunder. I would probably bet on it, but I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to make reads based on what I think people WOULDN'T do in a given situation. <_< >_>

#612 Turin and Zander both agreed Dice was scum on QT? hm.

#616 Zander do you think that you and Turin could be v/v and this is all just a result of rampant paranoia? Or are you convinced that Turin is scum based on his interactions with you on and off thread?

#617 RTE's pop in and vote on Zander is dirty.

Dice asking good questions p32, ++

I'm not sure about my Zander read on page 32. I think I would have wanted him to go a little more indepth and explain himself, but he IS explaining himself, in the Zander way, which is repetition. Probably null here, possible + here for some umfph. Turin on the other hand is coming off much more calm here than he was before (-).
 

QT is still gameplay Zander. You are trying to just dismiss what happened there because it is inconvenient.

^one thing I can agree on.

I find it interesting that both are still sus of Dice.
@TURIN/ZANDER: How can you both believe that Dice is mafia and the other is also mafia? Does your read of Dice that not sway your read of your neighbor?

#650 Niniel what point were you making on this post? NVM, apparently this was directed at Tsuki? #655 this isn't always the case, Tsuki. I actively try to brush things off as scum so that I don't look defensive. Tsuki, what do you think of my reaction to your name calling/how did it affect your read of me?

#662 Liking Lenlo's list, even though I'm town reading both Eldrick and Zander. My bottom 3 would probably beeeee Dicey, RTE, BFG. YOLO!Tsuki lol

#665 I like Hally's vote less than I like Lenlo's vote and more than I like RTE's vote. I remember Hally's points on Zander being that he was townie to start and then some recent posts where she didn't his responses to McClane, that they were OOC. Zander mentions as much in his response a few posts down.

#676 Dice voting Rey is an odd switch up. Dice has mentioned Rey's "last post" twice now but I don't remember him quoting it and mentioning waht about it was awful yet. Wondering why he doesn't want to solve Turin/Zander anymore. Not sure if Dice's turnaround is + or - ??

 

/pausing top of 35

[alannalynn]

I think Turin/Zander v/v

[alannalynn]

[v]Dice[/v]

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

 

 

And it is him. He is now doubly confirmed as mafia to Me.

 

He needs to go.

 

One final thought on this. Z proclaims he didn't want to use the QT to assist in getting a read on Me because he couldn't use it to prove his case. I would say this is a mafia mindset. Townies would be more concerned about getting the read right. Because if we could have taken away the doubt them it is better for town. We would have in effect turned.ourselves into masons(at least to ourselves). This is a powerful thing. That he basically went in the complete opposite direction is very telling to me.

Turin how well is Zander at making cases on other players in the game?

 

Your question is awkwardlt worded to me and I'm not sure what you are asking tbh. If the question is how good is Zander at getting people lynched then I would say very good. His cases tend to revolve around individual meta play which I don't really use and therefore don't really understand.

 

I'm also not sure what his casing ability has to do with my point that the more town play is to try to formulate a correct read on the other neighbor in the QT where it is private not immediately assume they are mafia. I really don't think this requires explaining but if anyone does want to hear my opinions then lmk.

I actually was trying to make a point, assuming a town!Zander.

 

Zander "cases" based on what people see in the thread. He quotes and tells people to read and see what he sees and his unmatchable WiM pretty much drives people to vote just to quiet him down sometimes. So the point is that, if Zander was so distrustful of you in the QT because he saw "neighbors" and assumed v/w and not the potential for v/v, then he's going to want those interactions ITT, not in a QT. His style of casing does not allow for him to achieve a lynch on who he thinks is scum if his only reference point is a QT and is basically hearsay.

 

I guess this would also work the same if he were scum. He can't lynch you if he "gets his read" from a QT. He can only do that with in-thread interactions which he can reference back to.

My point is that the purpose of having the QT isn't to lynch the other neighbor. It is to get the right read of the other neighbor. You do not do that by coming in and stating the other person MUST be mafia. Then abandoning the QT. That isn't how I see town operating.

 

Questions: in a private conversation between a townie and a Mafioso who has more to Lose? the townie that has no external information or the mafioso that knows alignments? Who would be more likely to make up a reason to avoid that conversation?

 

My thought is it is the Mafioso in all cases. They need to avoid giving anything away. They also need to make sure they don't contradict themselves from itt. Having somewhere else to post just makes their life more difficult. wolfing is hard enough without me asking a bunch of questions in QT (tbh I didn't get much of a chance to ask any).

[Turin Turambar]

I have Dice mafia independent of Zander. I have shown I think I was suspicious of him from the beginning. I even mentioned it to Z in QT. He replied I don't trust you but I am getting that vibe too.

[alannalynn]

#682 Dice being unable to explain his reasoning on Rey's post is out of nowhere and frustrating

#683 Rey admitting to wanting to set up lynches is lol

#687 Lenlo makes a good point irt Zander being anon in QT: town has nothing to hide. But this idea wars with my thought that wolf!Zander would come in blazing like the sun with his towniness. lol
 

 

His case is on nothing but the QT crap.

Turin has QT access and either uses it to further develop a read on you or fakes the same. You have QT access and avoid it/call it crap/get upset that he's bringing it into the main thread discussion. Do you see why this looks better for Turin than for you?

 

^

#689 Re: Eldrick's post. Not sure Dice's switch is a "defense" of Zander. As a teammate Dice could hop on Zander and gain town cred, he's already set up that situation and previously committed to a Zander lynch. As wolf!Dice, town!Zander, Dice would be keeping his hands clean of this lynch. As town!Dice, he would be having second thoughts about this lynch. Disregarding Zander though, Dice's switchup is still scummy and strange, and his inability to explain his troubles with Rey is odd as well.

@DICE: what made you switch away from Zander? Did your questioning of Zander tell you anything?
 

[unvote]

Slow down abit. Im content to have him at L-2. We have 6 days, as much time as that is, to much imo, we might as well use some of it.

Townie unvote

#717 @Zander why the switch up from Turin to RTE? This doesn't look good, besides self preservation and knowing a Turin lynch isn't going to pick up. Why not Dice though?

This is all starting to blur, I need to see some posts beside Zander-Eldrick-Dice-Lenlo-Shad-Turin, ughhh

/pause top of 38, going to start to skim a bit more after this, looking for less repetitive stuff >_>

[Ithillian Turambar]

 

Official Vote Count - Day 1

 

Zander (5/7): Turin, Rey, RTE, Hallia, Niniel

Alanna (1/7): Tsuki

Rey (1/7): Dice

RTE (1/7): Zander

Dice (3/7): Lenlo, Eldrick, Alanna

 

Not voting (2): BFG, Shad,

 

With 13 alive it takes 7 to achieve a majority Lynch.

 

Day 1 deadline is set for Wednesday 14 April @ 9 PM BST

 

Day 1 Deadline Countdown

 

 

47 hours left

[BFG]

Evening