Frozen Mafia Game Thread--GAME OVER--MAFIA WIN

[Shad_]

 

 

Fine.

 

 

Dice took me to task for having a double standard.

 

He agreed Sooh was town, didn't comment on Zander, but I realized he ought to be read Zander town for the same reason he read Sooh as town, otherwise he would be suffering from a double standard (the same reason he thought I was scum). I also knew Dice should know Zander can fake tone, so my objective was two fold: get Dice to think more critically about what he was accusing me of, and case Dice for his lazy read.

 

The fact he cleared Zander for tone still baffles me.

That early in the game, can't anyone fake tone?  It was a bunch of gif spamming for crying out loud.  

Did he truly "clear" Zander, or did he do the same thing you did with your "Sooh Town" thing, and it's all one huge misunderstanding?

 

Same as I did with sooh if memory serves.

 

He offered a weak explanation: Zander has a tonal tell therefore I feel he is town.

 

I would need to look back to recite the wording verbatum.

 

I think when Dice town reads someone for reasons like that it generally comes with stronger conviction than the average player. I think of him as someone who relies very heavily on tone/gut things and will commit to strong reads quickly. I don't know that I'd cast his Zander read in the same light as your Sooh read in the context of Hallia's question.

 

"im quite happy to call Princess Town sili   There are distinct differences in his tone when he is mafia. I haven't seen that yet. Ive just seen the energizer bunny Princess" were his exact words.

[Sili Quirrels]

I'm still wary of Razen. I agree that post is well constructed but I know he can do that as scum so I can't town read him for it.

 

Idk if he's trying to pacify me or what, but he never actually did respond to my accusations directly.

it's difficult.

 

i once had a wolf who spent 2+ hours constructing their posts every time and every post was pure and clean and just hte best, but in the end she was scum cause she spent two hours every time she made a post.

 

So it goes to show sometimes the time spent on a post is also relevant.

 

I estimate by the by Razen spent 2 hours on that post cause he refers to the mod replacing Kronos.

 

No idea if this is accurate interpretation, but it fits because his reads are actually outdated a little if I recall correctly.

 

The earliest he as town could have started typing the readlist is when the mod announced kronos' was being replaced, and the latest he could have started writing is the last piece of information used time-wise.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

@Razen - who are you actually suspicious of?

 

I don't want to forget anyone.  I was going to post this earlier, but Zander came in and started his catch up, and then I got distracted by my stomach.

 

Lean town:

Shad - I like his analysis of the Dice/Sili situation.  It seems genuine to me, like he is trying to take in what people say and then factor that in to what he's posted so far.

Zander - His catch-up posts have a good tone to them.  I liked his read list as well - he organized it differently than I do, but the only places that I really disagree with are Kaylee, Sili, and myself.  I like how he's trying to bring in what other people have thought about Sili to help him make a better read.

 

Slight town:

Sooh - This is mostly a tone read, to be honest.  Content-wise, she's mostly adopted a wait-and-see approach, but she has voted, which I think is a point in her favor.

AJ - I didn't like his unexplained vote on Sili coming right as he posted at the beginning of the game.  But since then, I feel like he is trying to make an effort to examine interactions and figure out who is scum and who is town.  I obviously don't agree with his read on me, seeing that I'm town.  But I don't get the feeling he is trying to push an agenda.

Thane - Having never played with him before, I don't know what to expect here.  I'm seeing a few good points from him - I like the way he told Sili to calm down and approach the thread with a clear head.  That's something I would expect from a town-aligned player.  That said, he seems to be taking more of a wait-and-see approach to things in general, which I'm not the biggest fan of.

 

Null (w/content):

Verbal - I haven't really seen enough from him to decide either way.  I liked the point he raised about Dice tying Sili and me together.  But other than that, there hasn't been much to comment on.  He can get a slight null +, but not very much.

Dice - I would have him higher if he didn't seem to be tunneling on Sili.  I feel like he is letting his exchange with Sili before get in the way of being truly objective.  He's said contradictory things regarding

Pralaya - I can never really read him well.  I don't agree with him regarding Shad.  But other than that, I don't really see anything that tips me one way or the other on him.

Sili - This is a genuine I don't know what is going on here.  I liked the point he made initially against Dice.  And I also like the way he's looking outside of what people are focusing on. But he has been getting very hung up about people not interpreting it the way he intended it.  I don't see why he keeps hammering that point home, even if it's something that I think was just a misunderstanding.  He's admitted that he's been caught up in the heat of the moment, which would explain things a bit.  This is a case of I see things I like and see things I don't, which balance out to land him here.   He can also have a slight null +.

 

Null (w/o content):

Kronos - but he's asked to be replaced.

Hallia - only thing I've seen really is her not being able to read Dice very well.

 

Slight scum:

Kaylee - I like the effort she's been putting in so far.  But I don't like some of what she's said.  I feel like she's tunneling on me and not taking other opinions into account.  I feel like she's contradicted herself a couple of times in pushing against me - I pointed it out with her take on the Dice situation.

 

After going through, I'm going to Unvote, vote: Kaylee.  She is the best suspect I have at this point.

 

knows kronos is being replaced. hasn't read any of hallia's content. hasn't read my case on pralaya.

 

Hallia's first game related post was made at 6:13 pm server time.

 

I made my case on pralaya at 5:19 pm.

 

HAve no idea what he means when he says she isn't taking other opinions into account. Like, the entire thread was against him last I checked o.O.

[Sili Quirrels]

Sorry about the lateness of this. Monday happened >.> 

 

Official Vote Count

Zander (1)--Sooh

Sili (2)--dice, Zander,

Aj (1)--Razen, 

Razen (2)--Aj, Kaylee

Pral (1)--Sili

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

There is currently no deadline--may be sitting one in the next couple of days depending on how this goes....

 

Also KRONOS HAS ASKED TO BE REPLACED

Makes this post at 5:49.

 

So... razen simply didn't read my post and i feel hurt (everyone ignores me)

 

so i'd guess he was working on his list at that time, or simply came on after.

[Sili Quirrels]

hm

 

anyway, he didn't stick around to get feedback on his list. ergo he is probably mafia.

[Sili Quirrels]

ya. basic psychology is if you spend 35 minutes on some readlist for a game, you want feedback on your product.

[Sili Quirrels]

[Sili Quirrels]

 

I estimate by the by Razen spent 2 hours on that post cause he refers to the mod replacing Kronos.

 

 

goes without saying i retract this. i'd overestimated how much time had passed.

[Shad_]

Eyes are glazing over, here's where I'm at roughly.

 

Dice

Andrej

Kaylee
Verbal
Zander

Thane

Sooh

Sili

Hallia

Kronos
Pralaya

Razen

[Sooh]

*snip*

*snip*

 

[v]Razen[/v]

 

What are your thoughts here Sooh?  Can I get your reasoning for the vote, or just sheeping?

 

*snip*

 

This is connected to the post below, in which Zander asked about the same thing.

 

 

 

 

*snip*

 

why?

You quoted why, if it's the Razen vote you're referring to.

 

I'm not tracking here.

 

I was trying to explain to Zander that he had already quoted (and liked) my reasoning for suspecting Razen. I'll quote it again for Hallia: 

 

Razen seems to be playing the "all players are scummy until proven otherwise"-game. That is something I have come to expect from a scum player rather than a townie. 

 

Shad, I like your tone so far this game. 

 

Now, I see his reads list, but I'm with Sili in that it seems constructed. Happy to keep my vote where it is. 

 

I'll keep voting pral unless I have to self-pres.

 

My order specifically is kronos>razen>pral

 

mostly in that order because pral is my catch and razen is aj's.

I don't like lynching Kronos/replacement before they get into the game. Even if Heart doesn't find a replacement we don't have to worry about lynching that slot, because then that will be done for us. 

 

 

Also, people have been commenting that I'm hedging on reads. I have a number of nulls that are unresolved for me at the moment. To me the clearest town is Shad at this point, with AJ as a close second. Dice and Sili may very well also be town on town. 

 

On the other side of the scale I have Razen. He's quite alone as a scum read on D1, but fortunately I don't have to vote for more than one scum toDay. 

[dicetosser1]

I will corroborate what Hallia is saying.

 

Some people actually do play this game by assuming everyone is mafia.

 

It's probably an aspect of their game mentality. Some people (i.e. cory) look for a village core. Other people (i.e. Dice, Crispy from tmf, and a few others) look for scum only. More balanced individuals (i.e. me) go about it backwards and forwards intuitively, case to case, eventually forming a village core and a few suspects simultaneously.

 

i do look for town but my job is to find and lynch scum

[Thane Vakarian]

Ok, it took me longer than i wanted to catch up. Work is hell today. But, i did get an impression on people in the game. And i don't do multicolor things. It'll be green for town, and orange for suspects. Ok, and black for Kronos. Town is in no particular order, orange is least to most wolfy. Quite certain the greens are alright, wolves found in orange and, eventually, black. 

 

Shad
Verbal
Hallia
dice
Andrej
Thane
Sili

 

Kronos: not taking into account, null.

 

Kaylee

Sooh

Zander
Pral

Razen

[Shad_]

I had a dream that whoever we lynched would become the next president of the United States, and we all voted for the Arizona Cardinals.

[Thane Vakarian]

wow.... just.... wow.....

[Shad_]

 

 

 

*snip*

 

why?

You quoted why, if it's the Razen vote you're referring to.

 

I'm not tracking here.

 

I was trying to explain to Zander that he had already quoted (and liked) my reasoning for suspecting Razen. I'll quote it again for Hallia:

 

Yeah I figured out what was going on after I posted; I was thrown off at first glance because I thought you meant the post Zander had quoted when he asked the question.

[Shad_]

Thane, what got you feeling bad about Kaylee? Only prior comment I saw was.

 

Shad, dice and Kaylee all not in my wtl pile for today *nods*

[Thane Vakarian]

i've been going through her more recent posts, and they don't give me such a good feeling when reading them like the posts earlier D1 did... there's a hint of something there i can't quite explain... Would i be willing to vote her? Probably not. But i'll need some more before i can clear her.

[Sooh]

 

Ok, it took me longer than i wanted to catch up. Work is hell today. But, i did get an impression on people in the game. And i don't do multicolor things. It'll be green for town, and orange for suspects. Ok, and black for Kronos. Town is in no particular order, orange is least to most wolfy. Quite certain the greens are alright, wolves found in orange and, eventually, black. 

 

Shad

Verbal

Hallia

dice

Andrej

Thane

Sili

 

Kronos: not taking into account, null.

 

Kaylee

Sooh

Zander

Pral

Razen

 

I'm not sure how Verbal and Hallia are in your town list. Actually I can see Hallia, but not Verb yet as much. I have to say it also amuses me how you have yourself as second lowest in your townie list. You find yourself scummy?

[Razen]

ya. basic psychology is if you spend 35 minutes on some readlist for a game, you want feedback on your product.

I posted that at 8:47pm, first mention comes from AJ at about 10:30ish pm my time. I mean, yeah, it is nice to see what people think, but I have other things to do, ya know. I can't F5 for two hours just see what people think about a list. It'd be here in the morning, or whenever I got the time to come back and read it.

 

I had a dream that whoever we lynched would become the next president of the United States, and we all voted for the Arizona Cardinals.

If you drop the second part of that, about the Arizona Cardinals, I actually wouldn't mind being lynched today, haha.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyone wanna touch on Razen's reads?

 

The thing that tilts me about him currently is thinking back to TUS game he was very clean. I made an observation there that I thought his ISO heavy filter could've been a smoke screen to avoid meaningful interaction but that was before I realized there was more scum than just my team. Regardless the observation held true. Anyway - the point I'm making is that now I'm unsure if he's one of those super clean wolves and inversely a scummy villager. I still have a hard time getting over the amount of hyperbole in his early cases though

HIs read list is well thought out. Seems he spent a lot of time crafting it.

 

His read of pralaya can easily be scum scum though.

By crafting do you mean you think he made it up, or are you saying you like his reads? Just trying to understand what you're saying.

I think they're 'safe' reads besides a couple outliers.

 

I think we craft long readslist like that for consumption.To persuade people you are town is why you make em'.

All right, so, which ones do you think are the outliers, if you think some of them aren't safe?

[Razen]

I'm also going to bed.

 

Last note: @Kaylee - Razen is actually saying he doesn't feel I am pushing an agenda.

He's right. Maybe Kaylee skimmed it, because she's already scumreading me, I don't know. Maybe it's a result me being wordier than I should have - I can see how it can be simplified. But she blatantly twisted what I said about AJ. I wouldn't have put him up in my slight town list if I felt he was trying to push an agenda. So if I take that part away, the only thing that Kaylee disagrees with is my read on her?

 

I don't like how he said AJ wad pushing an agenda. I also don't agree with what he said about me since it's wrong.

Slight town:

AJ - I didn't like his unexplained vote on Sili coming right as he posted at the beginning of the game. But since then, I feel like he is trying to make an effort to examine interactions and figure out who is scum and who is town. I obviously don't agree with his read on me, seeing that I'm town. But I don't get the feeling he is trying to push an agenda.

 

[Shad_]

Ok, it took me longer than i wanted to catch up. Work is hell today. But, i did get an impression on people in the game. And i don't do multicolor things. It'll be green for town, and orange for suspects. Ok, and black for Kronos. Town is in no particular order, orange is least to most wolfy. Quite certain the greens are alright, wolves found in orange and, eventually, black.

I'm not sure how Verbal and Hallia are in your town list. Actually I can see Hallia, but not Verb yet as much. I have to say it also amuses me how you have yourself as second lowest in your townie list. You find yourself scummy?

 

Erm, kind of an odd thing to point out.

[Shad_]

 

I had a dream that whoever we lynched would become the next president of the United States, and we all voted for the Arizona Cardinals.

If you drop the second part of that, about the Arizona Cardinals, I actually wouldn't mind being lynched today, haha.

 

I figured out I was dreaming because the Cardinals was totally :???:. Had it been the Ravens, I would have woken in a cold sweat.

[Shad_]

sili and dice both kinda aggresive in the thread.... dunno what to make of that. Seen something from Sili that i will keep my eye on, not revealing that bit yet.

 

Is it too soon to ask what this was?

[Shad_]

 

Ok, it took me longer than i wanted to catch up. Work is hell today. But, i did get an impression on people in the game. And i don't do multicolor things. It'll be green for town, and orange for suspects. Ok, and black for Kronos. Town is in no particular order, orange is least to most wolfy. Quite certain the greens are alright, wolves found in orange and, eventually, black. 

 

Shad

Verbal

Hallia

dice

Andrej

Thane

Sili

 

Kronos: not taking into account, null.

 

Kaylee

Sooh

Zander

Pral

Razen

 

 

I checked the ordering here with the roster when I first read Sooh's comment, and it was what I figured: he copied the roster and separated players towny or scummy in the order they appear there.  That's fine.  And then I got to thinking, well he did say the scum were in order.  I'm uh.... not sure they are.  They follow the roster order, just like the town list does, with the one exception that he put Razen at the bottom.

 

Could be a coincidence but

[Thane Vakarian]

 

 

Ok, it took me longer than i wanted to catch up. Work is hell today. But, i did get an impression on people in the game. And i don't do multicolor things. It'll be green for town, and orange for suspects. Ok, and black for Kronos. Town is in no particular order, orange is least to most wolfy. Quite certain the greens are alright, wolves found in orange and, eventually, black. 

 

Shad

Verbal

Hallia

dice

Andrej

Thane

Sili

 

Kronos: not taking into account, null.

 

Kaylee

Sooh

Zander

Pral

Razen

 

I'm not sure how Verbal and Hallia are in your town list. Actually I can see Hallia, but not Verb yet as much. I have to say it also amuses me how you have yourself as second lowest in your townie list. You find yourself scummy?

 

 

Ok, it took me longer than i wanted to catch up. Work is hell today. But, i did get an impression on people in the game. And i don't do multicolor things. It'll be green for town, and orange for suspects. Ok, and black for Kronos. Town is in no particular order, orange is least to most wolfy. Quite certain the greens are alright, wolves found in orange and, eventually, black.

I'm not sure how Verbal and Hallia are in your town list. Actually I can see Hallia, but not Verb yet as much. I have to say it also amuses me how you have yourself as second lowest in your townie list. You find yourself scummy?

 

Erm, kind of an odd thing to point out.

 

Shad pointed it out.... careful reading required to what i post. *nods*

 

 

sili and dice both kinda aggresive in the thread.... dunno what to make of that. Seen something from Sili that i will keep my eye on, not revealing that bit yet.

 

Is it too soon to ask what this was?

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, it took me longer than i wanted to catch up. Work is hell today. But, i did get an impression on people in the game. And i don't do multicolor things. It'll be green for town, and orange for suspects. Ok, and black for Kronos. Town is in no particular order, orange is least to most wolfy. Quite certain the greens are alright, wolves found in orange and, eventually, black. 

 

Shad

Verbal

Hallia

dice

Andrej

Thane

Sili

 

Kronos: not taking into account, null.

 

Kaylee

Sooh

Zander

Pral

Razen

 

 

I checked the ordering here with the roster when I first read Sooh's comment, and it was what I figured: he copied the roster and separated players towny or scummy in the order they appear there.  That's fine.  And then I got to thinking, well he did say the scum were in order.  I'm uh.... not sure they are.  They follow the roster order, just like the town list does, with the one exception that he put Razen at the bottom.

 

Could be a coincidence but

 

it is a coincedence. They just happen to fall in that order. They are in the order i want them to be. Sometimes i really try to pay attention to how and what i post we know...