Frozen Mafia Game Thread--GAME OVER--MAFIA WIN

[Sooh]

  On 9/14/2015 at 11:24 PM, Zander said:

*snip*

 

why?

 

You quoted why, if it's the Razen vote you're referring to.

[Zander?]

  On 9/14/2015 at 5:54 PM, Kaylee said:

It won't let me use the posts now so I'll just make the comments I had with them for now. Hope it makes sense.

 

Liking Thane's more recent posts. (In particular where he's responding to Sili)

 

Thane is one Null for me atm but closer to town.

 

 

Dice: I don't see Razen and Sili tied together.

 

Shad: You also have it wrong about me worrying about a trap. Yes I said it was a possibility. I get what you're saying and that also works like a trap. (That was my point.) What I meant was it felt like they were working together, more like the way you suggested since I don't have either as a scum read atm. I didn't say I felt it made her scum. I was just saying that the cryptic/trap style talk is something I don't like and I was noting that they were both doing it at that point. I fully expect her to explain it later.

 

Razen: I didn't like how you gave Sili an explaination after questioning why his reads changed. Seemed like at first you fought it suspicious then backed off. Why? I find scum will do things like that to not make it too obvious that they know the person is town. I don't like the way you handled that at all. More reason I'm not liking you this game. It's the fact that you brought attention to it, double checked for yourself, then gave a reason as why the change could've happened. If you found it suspicious why not let him answer for himself?

 

Shad: You also have it wrong about me worrying about a trap. Yes I said it was a possibility. I get what you're saying and that also works like a trap. (That was my point.) What I meant was it felt like they were working together, more like the way you suggested since I don't have either as a scum read atm. I didn't say I felt it made her scum. I was just saying that the cryptic/trap style talk is something I don't like and I was noting that they were both doing it at that point. I fully expect her to explain it later.

 

 

Verbal I'm liking. He's giving early reads and trying to figure things out.

 

Ok reads so far:

 

Players

1. Razen - Already said but pushing an agenda, misrepping, not liking at all

2. Shad - Some good questions and points. I don't know him as well so light town feel for now.

3. Kronos - Need more

4. Verbal - Active, working to figure things out town feel

5. Kaylee - me

6. Hallia - Null really need more

7. Sooh - Null but leaning town.

8. dice - On his town game

9. Andrej - Town lean. I liked what he's had to say about Razen as it echo's my own thoughts.

10. Zander - Haven't really looked at him to this point.

11. Pral - I read him better as time goes on. Liking that he's active

12. Thane - Not sure yet, but time will tell. Null but closer to the town side

13. Sili - likely town

 

[v]Razen[/v]

 

Kay putting in #TheWork.  Unless this is consistent with her scum game (PLEASE WEIGH IN HERE) I'm thinking town.  I like the read list mostly as well

[Shad_]

  On 9/14/2015 at 7:06 AM, Sili Quirrels said:

I don't feel like Razen tackling AJ over his vote after Dice made a bad argument is terrible though.

 

I mean, I myself concluded either

 

a) AJ scanned Dice's argument and sided with him before leaving

b) AJ is voting me as a reaction test

 

So someone taking a) seriously doesn't shock me, even if there is a little cognitive dissonance in reading both AJ and I scum.

 

Did you?  I concluded that

 

a) AJ dropped an unexplained vote.

 

The variability in motive at this stage is endless, and while I've certainly been guilty of trying to mindread blind votes in the past, I don't do it often or take it far.  The only reasonable reactions are to ask why or let it sit and see how others react to it.  Razen reacted pretty badly.  He didn't even stop at assuming that AJ was siding with Dice; he pulled out the worst aspect of Dice's argument and shoved that into AJ's mouth.

[Zander?]

  On 9/14/2015 at 8:28 PM, dicetosser1 said:

RE Razen and sili tied together

 

first off note that i said IN MY HEAD     thats MY thinking. this is why

 

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 12:41 PM, Razen said:

Sili and Dice are both trying to misrep each other. I don't see where Dice said he was clearing Zander - and I don't see where Sili said he was clearing Sooh. Sili gave a reason after he posted that Sooh was town - he believes she has difficulty faking tone. Dice's only mentions of Zander came when he voted him.

 

 

@ Sili - If you felt people were clearing Zander too early - who are they besides Dice? You posted this before Dice had even posted his first post:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

 

Sooh town.

Why aren't you pushing those people over Dice then?

 

But what I find interesting is that we have two quick unexplained votes on Sili - and two people sitting on the fence about it. I like AJ's vote less than Zander's - Zander at least attempted to justify his, even though I don't agree with the justification. Disagreeing with Dice's assessment of the situation doesn't warrant a vote by itself, IMO. I don't like the wait and see attitude that Sooh and Thane are taking either.

 

[v]AJ[/v]

 

 

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:12 PM, Razen said:

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 1:22 PM, Shad_ said:

Shad_, on 13 Sept 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

  On 9/13/2015 at 12:41 PM, Razen said:

Razen, on 13 Sept 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

 

 

Sili and Dice are both trying to misrep each other. I don't see where Dice said he was clearing Zander - and I don't see where Sili said he was clearing Sooh. Sili gave a reason after he posted that Sooh was town - he believes she has difficulty faking tone. Dice's only mentions of Zander came when he voted him.

 

 

@ Sili - If you felt people were clearing Zander too early - who are they besides Dice? You posted this before Dice had even posted his first post:

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Sili Quirrels, on 12 Sept 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

 

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

 

Sooh town.

Why aren't you pushing those people over Dice then?

 

But what I find interesting is that we have two quick unexplained votes on Sili - and two people sitting on the fence about it. I like AJ's vote less than Zander's - Zander at least attempted to justify his, even though I don't agree with the justification. Disagreeing with Dice's assessment of the situation doesn't warrant a vote by itself, IMO. I don't like the wait and see attitude that Sooh and Thane are taking either.

 

[v]AJ[/v]

 

I find the wording of this odd. Do you think they're both doing it intentionally?

Yes. Sili did initially twist Dice's words to reach an untrue conclusion. But it worked. And from that point - it's not a misrep. When I reread it closely - Dice never said anything about clearing Zander until pressed by Sili - he even voted him as a joke. That's not clearing behavior, if you ask me. So why pick Dice to hop on out of all people regarding the clearing of Zander initially? He is the first one to bring the post up. And Sili hops all over him for that. Initially - it's wrong. He makes the assumption that Dice has cleared Zander based on tone when he hadn't actually done that at that point in the game. Because as Dice pointed out - he hadn't mentioned Zander being town or anything when he had initially posted. That doesn't happen until later.

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:20 AM, Sili Quirrels said:

Sili Quirrels, on 12 Sept 2015 - 9:20 PM, said:

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:09 AM, dicetosser1 said:

dicetosser1, on 12 Sept 2015 - 9:09 PM, said:

 

who said my conclusion is wrong? you come in saying Zanders getting cleared too quick   he basically got cleared for exactly the same reason you cleared sooh in the next sentence.

 

you say its bad one sentence and then do it yourself. Thats definitely talking out both sides of your mouth imo and I dont really see that as a good thing.

 

Even if i do agree that sooh is town based on the same thing you explain later. her tone.

 

But you didnt say that here you just threw out a double standard.

So let's be clear here. If you don't have a double standard, you are clearing Zander for faking tone when he spent the last mafia game showcasing how well he could fake tone?

 

And I am not 'clearing' Sooh so don't even.

But in the purple - Dice caves. He admits he's clearing Zander. Where Dice says "he basically got cleared for exactly the same reason you cleared sooh.."

 

The red is the point of Sili's push on Dice - which given the purple, is now a valid point to make. It's the part where Sili says "you are clearing Zander for faking tone..."

 

And yet Dice takes care to go back and say "I didn't clear Zander anywhere - you're misrepping me Sili."

 

I quoted the massive post where he does that below. In spoiler, so it doesn't kill people's eyes.

 

It's not a misrep at all from Sili after the purple point - it reads to me like Dice is going back to try and cover for his inadvertent admission regarding Zander. And call Sili out for making a bogus point when it really isn't.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 4:52 AM, dicetosser1 said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

 

Sooh town.

Right here you declare sooh town. 2 words Sooh Town. That sounds like clearing to me

 

 

Also you wanna tell me where I said Zander is Town? here are ALL my posts this game to make it easy for you

 

 

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 11:42 PM, dicetosser1 said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 2:40 PM, Zander said:

 

Sweet Randed Town again!!!!

 

 

HardClaim: Darth Vader

Vote Princessfor not singing as told too

  On 9/12/2015 at 3:00 PM, Zander said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 2:59 PM, Aiel Heart said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 2:58 PM, Zander said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 2:56 PM, Aiel Heart said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 2:48 PM, Sooh said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 2:45 PM, Zander said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 2:43 PM, Sooh said:

 

[v]Zander[/v]

 

I thought you were done doing that.

I just did.

If I could give points, I would for this post

Pretty sure Hearts a wolf

 

[v] Heart [/v]

10 points from Gryffendor!

Vader prolly Slytherin imo

Vader was a Hufflepuff who was loyal to the wrong person.

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 3:07 PM, Zander said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 3:01 PM, Aiel Heart said:

 

Haha we've started the quote pyramids already--should probably stop to save those who are playing via mobile XD

 

 

 

Darth says.....YOLO imo

 + a million for Vader in Hawaii

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

 

Sooh town.

Ok so game post here not a fan of this post even tho i agree regarding sooh. He immediately talks outside both sides of his mouth  but he does give a reason later

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:43 PM, Aiel Heart said:

Basically what's going on in this thread right now...

 

Heart = Greatest mod EVA!!!!!

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:09 AM, dicetosser1 said:

who said my conclusion is wrong? you come in saying Zanders getting cleared too quick  he basically got cleared for exactly the same reason you cleared sooh in the next sentence.

 

you say its bad one sentence and then do it yourself. Thats definitely talking out both sides of your mouth imo and I dont really see that as a good thing.

 

Even if i do agree that sooh is town based on the same thing you explain later. her tone.

 

But you didnt say that here you just threw out a double standard.

Note the bold  thats not me saying Zander is town. Your post that I had issue with? It came before I had even posted in the gameand you complained that "people are clearing zander too quick" My response there in blue is that he was getting cleared bythose people you complained about for the same reason you declared sooh town.

 

Ididnt declare him town  i only voted Princess and +1d a gif

 

 

So sili wanna declare who the rest of your team is now? Cause i think i just screwed you out of your easy push.

 

 

vote sili

 

 

I can understand if Dice didn't realize that he actually made that statement regarding clearing Zander because of tone. But he made it - and that's what drew my attention. And what's very interesting is that AJ basically saw fit to hop along with that bogus reasoning that Dice put out there. Zander uses Sili's refusal to address the point anymore as the basis for his vote - which looks better from Zander, but again - it's based on the assumption that Dice didn't actually say what he did. Dice's vote is pure OMGUS - the others, not so much. And those are the ones I'm concerned with.

 

 

I came out of these two posts   especially the second feeling like Razen is doing a round about defence of sili. Feels like he wants to defend him but keep some distance.

 

For me Im very sold on sili as mafia and i also think Razen is but im not AS strong on it. in my thinking a sili flip simply solidifies my read on Razen because of what i see as a distanced defence.  IF sili flips town (i dont think he will) then i will still lynch Razen as i do think he is scum. 

 

Like i said earlier  the only other person i vote today is razen and im only doing that if i cant get sili lynched. Which realisticallyprobably wont happen

 

if you have them linked together then the bolded part is weird.  If you think Razen is scum regardless of Sili's alignment and you have at least a tiny doubt on SIli....why wouldnt you want to lynch Razen first?

[Shad_]

AH is sort of MIA right now and I'm still a ways behind, anyone know the vote count?

[Sooh]

  On 9/14/2015 at 11:43 PM, Shad_ said:

AH is sort of MIA right now and I'm still a ways behind, anyone know the vote count?

No idea. We're also missing Kronos I believe.

[Zander?]

  On 9/14/2015 at 9:40 PM, Sooh said:

Just let him catch up, Sili. Deal with whatever he has of questions after he's done. 

 

 

  On 9/14/2015 at 10:34 PM, Sooh said:

Is it just me, or is Zander looking worse for each post atm? Could be his not being caught up, but I'm really not feeling town Zander. 

 

 

 

  On 9/14/2015 at 10:38 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  On 9/14/2015 at 10:34 PM, Sooh said:

Is it just me, or is Zander looking worse for each post atm? Could be his not being caught up, but I'm really not feeling town Zander. 

I think he looks better.

 

He might be wrong, but I can't hold that against him if other people made the same mistakes.

 

 

 

  On 9/14/2015 at 10:39 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  Quote

and Sili calls Dice out for taunting and whines about it...then he does it himself....

 

 

Except I am right and Dice is wrong.

 

 

 

lololololol

[Shad_]

  On 9/14/2015 at 12:40 PM, Pralaya said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 3:27 PM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

 

Sooh town.

  On 9/12/2015 at 6:10 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

I speculate Sooh has difficulty faking tone. Therefore her vote of you, which is not serious at all, is a good sign. I will reevaluate later though.

So Sili comes in making reads off intro joke content. That's kind of normal for him I think. He's recognizing that Sooh's vote on Zander was a joke, thinks scum!Sooh struggles to joke at the start of a game. Ok. What makes the Zander thing weird is that the only person who "cleared" Zander was Verbal, and I don't get how he ends up taking Verbal seriously when he recognizes everyone else is joking around.

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 11:42 PM, dicetosser1 said:

Ok so game post here not a fan of this post even tho i agree regarding sooh. He immediately talks outside both sides of his mouth but he does give a reason later

Is Dice picking up on the same thing here? Well, no:

 

#87 -- "Do you only agree regarding Sooh. Do you think Zander should be cleared for fluff content?" ~~I think Sili's saying "if the so-called double standard is a bad thing and you're clearing Sooh, you ought to be clearing Zander too"~~ Sili drops a vote on Dice.

 

#92 -- Dice repeats the double standard argument which I do think is kind of silly.

 

#94 -- irt #87: But Sili wasn't very explicit about what he meant so Dice doesn't interpret it that way. He thinks Sili is saying that Dice did clear Zander, and he calls Sili out for making up a bogus reason to vote him.  ~~I can especially see where Dice might think this when only one person "cleared" Zander and Sili is acting like a few people did.

 

#98 -- Sili clarifies what he meant. Nothing wrong with this post.

 

#99 -- Starts to read Dice town, hates how AJ just dropped a vote without explanation.

 

#101 -- "I am just fos'ing you because you are not thinking too critically about Zander right now, or what a double standard is even." ~~I'm ok with this part.~~ "Dice, you said you read my second post where I elaborated on the read. What part of 'will reevaluate later' means 'clearing' to you..." ~~ This part is kind of meh, coupled with the insult. Needlessly antagonistic?  You could have just pointed it out to him without picking a fight.  Anyway if you're town I have no doubt you will continue to evaluate Sooh beyond her intro joke posts. But I mean, you don't like that Verbal "cleared" Zander which was possibly a joke but you don't get why Dice thinks you're fully clearing Sooh when you were serious and explained with actual meta.  It's silly on both ends.

 

#102 -- Dice thinks Zander can be tone read ~~teach me please~~ Dice's main issue now seems to boil down to Sili having not explained why he was town reading Sooh until someone asked him.

 

#103 -- "Your push seems lame. A double standard is by no means bad, especially when you yourself don't clear Zander for what Sooh is doing. It is so easily falsifiable, literally no thought was put into it, and that makes it stand out to me." ~~The double standard argument is lame, I agree. I think Dice's push also involves (initially) thinking you had lied about events (regarding whether Dice cleared Zander town) and the fact that you didn't come out with an explanation about Sooh until after you were asked for one.

 

#104 & 105 -- Some lame emo from Sili here. "Therefore, I quit. I'll just evaluate him on his content as the day progresses. No need to interact." ~~bugs me because he was making progress in a read on Dice through their interaction and stated as much earlier, but now he's acting like trying to figure Dice out directly will not be productive. I dunno. All the hurling insults and ending the discussion seems counter-productive to developing your read on Dice. Frustrated as either alignment, probably,

 

All-in-all I'm null on Sili through the whole thing. Dice went at him with a bad argument at first, there was some miscommunication, Sili starts to look beyond the heat of the argument to try and get a grasp on Dice's alignment but ultimately just spews some insults and calls the whole thing off. It's a low effort way out. Like, I would never have taken that approach with Calder last game even though it would have spared me a lot of drama, because I wanted to solve his slot and thought I might be on to scum. But this is Dice, not Calder. I'm more willing to accept Sili deeming the conversation unproductive with him than with most people. Null.

 

But the conversation really wasn't unproductive. While I don't agree with Dice's initial reason for sussing Sili, this sort of "I'm going to catch scum out the gate" mentality is pretty typical of his town game at least. (I've never seen his scum game. If I ISO one I could get maybe some new/better read on him.) He really sunk his teeth in when he misunderstood SIli to be saying that Dice cleared Zander, and that's the part I like. He thought he caught Sili in a lie and he pounced on it. Like, he pounced hard. It doesn't strike me as something that a Dice who knows there was a misunderstanding would do. I think his town game is showing up early here.

 

@Sili, what made you take Verbal's "clearing" of Zander seriously?

 

@Verbal I generally assume when someone quotes a joke early and declares a player town it is another joke, unless explicitly stated otherwise, but since this has become a topic I should ask: do you have any lean on Zander right now?

 

 

 

Especially this post bothers me.

 

This is way, way elaborate for what is a minor issue. This feels to me more like trying to score some town brownie points by making it a much bigger thing and trying to over-analyze the issue.

 

The only game I played with Shad is when he was scum. So, I don't know if he does this as townie. But, I don't feel this is a townie attempt.

 

We were both in US but I don't remember you there. If you are thinking of Belichick, we were v/v but you died before I got my sexy on.

[Zander?]

  On 9/14/2015 at 11:32 PM, Kaylee said:

Zander: When you're caught up I'd like to know where you stand. It's hard with the catch up.

 

Town Reads:

 

Dice

Thane

Kay

 

Light Town:

 

AJ

Verb

 

 

Sooh

 

Uneasy:

 

Hallia

 

Wolf:

 

 

SIli- Ive actually not minded some of Sili's more recent posts.

Razen-  Ive went into this.

 

 

 

  On 9/14/2015 at 11:35 PM, Sooh said:

 

  On 9/14/2015 at 11:24 PM, Zander said:

*snip*

 

why?

 

You quoted why, if it's the Razen vote you're referring to.

 

 

Too many pages open I had the wrong quote.  sorry.

[Sili Quirrels]

  On 9/14/2015 at 11:38 PM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 9/14/2015 at 7:06 AM, Sili Quirrels said:

I don't feel like Razen tackling AJ over his vote after Dice made a bad argument is terrible though.

 

I mean, I myself concluded either

 

a) AJ scanned Dice's argument and sided with him before leaving

b) AJ is voting me as a reaction test

 

So someone taking a) seriously doesn't shock me, even if there is a little cognitive dissonance in reading both AJ and I scum.

 

Did you?  I concluded that

 

a) AJ dropped an unexplained vote.

 

The variability in motive at this stage is endless, and while I've certainly been guilty of trying to mindread blind votes in the past, I don't do it often or take it far.  The only reasonable reactions are to ask why or let it sit and see how others react to it.  Razen reacted pretty badly.  He didn't even stop at assuming that AJ was siding with Dice; he pulled out the worst aspect of Dice's argument and shoved that into AJ's mouth.

 

I do it often, but similar to you I don't take it far.

[Sili Quirrels]

I think pralaya is a wolf.

[Shad_]

  On 9/14/2015 at 12:52 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

hiya Shad....

 

Pral does make a point about your post. What was your intention with it?

 

Hmm...  well on a quick read neither of them were making a great deal of sense.  There was some obvious miscommunication and Sili was getting kind of snarky.  The whole thing reminded me a bit of me and Calder, and I'm still really irritated by how town treated that event.  I had a lot of time because I finished my work early and didn't have the baby, so I thought hey, I'm go

[Shad_]

speaking of having the baby, he just clicked submit on that half-post -_-

[Shad_]

  On 9/14/2015 at 12:52 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

hiya Shad....

 

Pral does make a point about your post. What was your intention with it?

 

Hmm...  well on a quick read neither of them were making a great deal of sense.  There was some obvious miscommunication and Sili was getting kind of snarky.  The whole thing reminded me a bit of me and Calder, and I'm still really irritated by how town treated that event.  I had a lot of time because I finished my work early and didn't have the baby, so I thought hey, I'm going to thoroughly sort this thing out.  I think the result was productive.

[Sili Quirrels]

  On 9/14/2015 at 12:40 PM, Pralaya said:

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 3:27 PM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

 

Sooh town.

  On 9/12/2015 at 6:10 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

I speculate Sooh has difficulty faking tone. Therefore her vote of you, which is not serious at all, is a good sign. I will reevaluate later though.

So Sili comes in making reads off intro joke content. That's kind of normal for him I think. He's recognizing that Sooh's vote on Zander was a joke, thinks scum!Sooh struggles to joke at the start of a game. Ok. What makes the Zander thing weird is that the only person who "cleared" Zander was Verbal, and I don't get how he ends up taking Verbal seriously when he recognizes everyone else is joking around.

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 11:42 PM, dicetosser1 said:

Ok so game post here not a fan of this post even tho i agree regarding sooh. He immediately talks outside both sides of his mouth but he does give a reason later

Is Dice picking up on the same thing here? Well, no:

 

#87 -- "Do you only agree regarding Sooh. Do you think Zander should be cleared for fluff content?" ~~I think Sili's saying "if the so-called double standard is a bad thing and you're clearing Sooh, you ought to be clearing Zander too"~~ Sili drops a vote on Dice.

 

#92 -- Dice repeats the double standard argument which I do think is kind of silly.

 

#94 -- irt #87: But Sili wasn't very explicit about what he meant so Dice doesn't interpret it that way. He thinks Sili is saying that Dice did clear Zander, and he calls Sili out for making up a bogus reason to vote him.  ~~I can especially see where Dice might think this when only one person "cleared" Zander and Sili is acting like a few people did.

 

#98 -- Sili clarifies what he meant. Nothing wrong with this post.

 

#99 -- Starts to read Dice town, hates how AJ just dropped a vote without explanation.

 

#101 -- "I am just fos'ing you because you are not thinking too critically about Zander right now, or what a double standard is even." ~~I'm ok with this part.~~ "Dice, you said you read my second post where I elaborated on the read. What part of 'will reevaluate later' means 'clearing' to you..." ~~ This part is kind of meh, coupled with the insult. Needlessly antagonistic?  You could have just pointed it out to him without picking a fight.  Anyway if you're town I have no doubt you will continue to evaluate Sooh beyond her intro joke posts. But I mean, you don't like that Verbal "cleared" Zander which was possibly a joke but you don't get why Dice thinks you're fully clearing Sooh when you were serious and explained with actual meta.  It's silly on both ends.

 

#102 -- Dice thinks Zander can be tone read ~~teach me please~~ Dice's main issue now seems to boil down to Sili having not explained why he was town reading Sooh until someone asked him.

 

#103 -- "Your push seems lame. A double standard is by no means bad, especially when you yourself don't clear Zander for what Sooh is doing. It is so easily falsifiable, literally no thought was put into it, and that makes it stand out to me." ~~The double standard argument is lame, I agree. I think Dice's push also involves (initially) thinking you had lied about events (regarding whether Dice cleared Zander town) and the fact that you didn't come out with an explanation about Sooh until after you were asked for one.

 

#104 & 105 -- Some lame emo from Sili here. "Therefore, I quit. I'll just evaluate him on his content as the day progresses. No need to interact." ~~bugs me because he was making progress in a read on Dice through their interaction and stated as much earlier, but now he's acting like trying to figure Dice out directly will not be productive. I dunno. All the hurling insults and ending the discussion seems counter-productive to developing your read on Dice. Frustrated as either alignment, probably,

 

All-in-all I'm null on Sili through the whole thing. Dice went at him with a bad argument at first, there was some miscommunication, Sili starts to look beyond the heat of the argument to try and get a grasp on Dice's alignment but ultimately just spews some insults and calls the whole thing off. It's a low effort way out. Like, I would never have taken that approach with Calder last game even though it would have spared me a lot of drama, because I wanted to solve his slot and thought I might be on to scum. But this is Dice, not Calder. I'm more willing to accept Sili deeming the conversation unproductive with him than with most people. Null.

 

But the conversation really wasn't unproductive. While I don't agree with Dice's initial reason for sussing Sili, this sort of "I'm going to catch scum out the gate" mentality is pretty typical of his town game at least. (I've never seen his scum game. If I ISO one I could get maybe some new/better read on him.) He really sunk his teeth in when he misunderstood SIli to be saying that Dice cleared Zander, and that's the part I like. He thought he caught Sili in a lie and he pounced on it. Like, he pounced hard. It doesn't strike me as something that a Dice who knows there was a misunderstanding would do. I think his town game is showing up early here.

 

@Sili, what made you take Verbal's "clearing" of Zander seriously?

 

@Verbal I generally assume when someone quotes a joke early and declares a player town it is another joke, unless explicitly stated otherwise, but since this has become a topic I should ask: do you have any lean on Zander right now?

 

Especially this post bothers me.

 

This is way, way elaborate for what is a minor issue. This feels to me more like trying to score some town brownie points by making it a much bigger thing and trying to over-analyze the issue.

 

The only game I played with Shad is when he was scum. So, I don't know if he does this as townie. But, I don't feel this is a townie attempt.

 

 

I don't want to say this makes Shad town because Pralaya busses using the info he gleans from being a wolf, but I really did think the content in Shad's long post was genuine: it's easy to see it coming from a villager who is anxious to get started playing the game by commenting on the one main piece of content.

 

My problem with pralaya's comment is he has no reason to be bothered by the post beyond it's size, so he makes it up. I also want to note that he never says Shad's wolf game looks like this (no direct comparison is made).

 

 

  On 9/14/2015 at 12:36 PM, Pralaya said:

Great. Not a lot to catch up :thumb up:. Always love when that happens.

 

So, the "big" thing that has happened so far is the dice/sili argument. Notice the BIG in quotes. Yeah, it is a minor thing at best. Sili does what sili does on D1 - which is to FoS as many people as he can. I have a town feel of him because of that. As scum he is more methodological - like making lists etc. Dice is also being dice - jumping quickly on a minor thing. I agree that is a v/v argument in the beginning.

 

What I am not liking are those who are making a mountain out of the molehill.

reads as tmi. He downplays the parts most villagers highlight. And to be frank, I was pretty scummy.

[Sili Quirrels]

[unvote]

[v]pralaya[/v]

 

Just want a second real train here for a moment. See what happens.

[Sili Quirrels]

  On 9/15/2015 at 12:15 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 9/14/2015 at 12:52 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

hiya Shad....

 

Pral does make a point about your post. What was your intention with it?

 

Hmm...  well on a quick read neither of them were making a great deal of sense.  There was some obvious miscommunication and Sili was getting kind of snarky.  The whole thing reminded me a bit of me and Calder, and I'm still really irritated by how town treated that event.  I had a lot of time because I finished my work early and didn't have the baby, so I thought hey, I'm going to thoroughly sort this thing out.  I think the result was productive.

 

Hey, I think I explained myself properly. And whereas dice misunderstood me, I did not misunderstand dice.

[Shad_]

That's the first time I've used the word snarky.  Feels good.

[Sili Quirrels]

So uh, Pral, Razen. Next I will do verbal.

[Aiel Heart]

Sorry about the lateness of this. Monday happened >.> 

 

Official Vote Count
Zander (1)--Sooh
Sili (2)--dice, Zander,
Aj (1)--Razen, 
Razen (2)--Aj, Kaylee
Pral (1)--Sili
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
There is currently no deadline--may be sitting one in the next couple of days depending on how this goes....

 

Also KRONOS HAS ASKED TO BE REPLACED

[Hallia]

H'ok, so catching up through page 5

 

Spoilering the back and forth of Dice/Sili

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

Sooh town.

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 6:10 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

I speculate Sooh has difficulty faking tone. Therefore her vote of you, which is not serious at all, is a good sign. I will reevaluate later though.

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 11:42 PM, dicetosser1 said:

 

Vote Princess for not singing as told too

 

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

Sooh town.

 

Ok so game post here    not a fan of this post even tho i agree regarding sooh.  He immediately talks outside both sides of his mouth   but he does give a reason later

 

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:09 AM, dicetosser1 said:

who said my conclusion is wrong? you come in saying Zanders getting cleared too quick   he basically got cleared for exactly the same reason you cleared sooh in the next sentence.

 

you say its bad one sentence and then do it yourself. Thats definitely talking out both sides of your mouth imo and I dont really see that as a good thing.

 

Even if i do agree that sooh is town based on the same thing you explain later. her tone.

 

But you didnt say that here you just threw out a double standard.

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:20 AM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:09 AM, dicetosser1 said:

who said my conclusion is wrong? you come in saying Zanders getting cleared too quick   he basically got cleared for exactly the same reason you cleared sooh in the next sentence.

 

you say its bad one sentence and then do it yourself. Thats definitely talking out both sides of your mouth imo and I dont really see that as a good thing.

 

Even if i do agree that sooh is town based on the same thing you explain later. her tone.

 

But you didnt say that here you just threw out a double standard.

So let's be clear here. If you don't have a double standard, you are clearing Zander for faking tone when he spent the last mafia game showcasing how well he could fake tone?

 

And I am not 'clearing' Sooh so don't even.

 

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 4:52 AM, dicetosser1 said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

Sooh town.

 

Right here you declare sooh town. 2 words  Sooh Town. That sounds like clearing to me

 

Also you wanna tell me where I said Zander is Town?  here are ALL my posts this game to make it easy for you

 

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 11:42 PM, dicetosser1 said:

k

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

Sooh town.

 

Ok so game post here    not a fan of this post even tho i agree regarding sooh.  He immediately talks outside both sides of his mouth   but he does give a reason later

 

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:09 AM, dicetosser1 said:

who said my conclusion is wrong? you come in saying Zanders getting cleared too quick   he basically got cleared for exactly the same reason you cleared sooh in the next sentence.

 

you say its bad one sentence and then do it yourself. Thats definitely talking out both sides of your mouth imo and I dont really see that as a good thing.

 

Even if i do agree that sooh is town based on the same thing you explain later. her tone.

 

But you didnt say that here you just threw out a double standard.

 

 

Note the bold   thats not me saying Zander is town. Your post that I had issue with? It came before I had even posted in the game   and you complained that "people are clearing zander too quick"  My response there in blue is that he was getting cleared bythose people you complained about for the same reason you declared sooh town.

 

I  didnt declare him town  i only voted Princess and +1d a gif

 

So sili  wanna declare who the rest of your team is now? Cause i think i just screwed you out of your easy push.

 

vote sili

 

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 5:11 AM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  Quote

Note the bold   thats not me saying Zander is town. Your post that I had issue with? It came before I had even posted in the game   and you complained that "people are clearing zander too quick"  My response there in blue is that he was getting cleared bythose people you complained about for the same reason you declared sooh town.

I  didnt declare him town  i only voted Princess and +1d a gif

 

I need to wrap my head around this, because I just answered your question. A double standard is common, even, in mafia and you've been around for ages so you should definitely not even raise an eyebrow at it.

Or you're just dice.

Anyway, Dice, I take it you won't clear Zander even though you're clearing Sooh? Well that's a double standard.

 

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 5:13 AM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  Quote

So sili  wanna declare who the rest of your team is now? Cause i think i just screwed you out of your easy push.

vote sili

 

This, anyway, is a very dice comment.

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 4:54 AM, Andrej said:

[v]Sili[/v]

This is a bad vote.

 

 

 

 

Coming back in and having reread as far as I have, I think Dice defended himself very well, and may indeed have caught a scummy Sili.  I dislike that rather than really debate back with Dice, Sili chalks up the argument to "That's just dice"

 

If things haven't changed for me, I will probably vote Sili.

[Sooh]

Ok, guess I didn't do it right.

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Razen[/v]

[Shad_]

  On 9/14/2015 at 1:48 PM, Razen said:

 

  On 9/14/2015 at 7:06 AM, Sili Quirrels said:

I don't feel like Razen tackling AJ over his vote after Dice made a bad argument is terrible though.

 

I mean, I myself concluded either

 

a) AJ scanned Dice's argument and sided with him before leaving

b) AJ is voting me as a reaction test

 

So someone taking a) seriously doesn't shock me, even if there is a little cognitive dissonance in reading both AJ and I scum.

If this is about me - where did I read you scum?  I don't think I've listed what I thought about anyone yet.  I didn't like AJ's unexplained vote yesterday, and I said as much.

 

Basically "Sili and Dice are both trying to misrep each other" makes it sound like you're scum reading both of them, which is a strange conclusion and why I asked if you thought they were doing it intentionally.  You said "Yes."  I suppose you could think Sili is intentionally misrepping someone without thinking he's scum, but it's going to come off like you're scum reading him.

 

What you said irt Sili misrepping was:

"Sili did initially twist Dice's words to reach an untrue conclusion. But it worked. And from that point - it's not a misrep. When I reread it closely - Dice never said anything about clearing Zander until pressed by Sili - he even voted him as a joke. That's not clearing behavior, if you ask me. So why pick Dice to hop on out of all people regarding the clearing of Zander initially? He is the first one to bring the post up. And Sili hops all over him for that. Initially - it's wrong. He makes the assumption that Dice has cleared Zander based on tone when he hadn't actually done that at that point in the game. Because as Dice pointed out - he hadn't mentioned Zander being town or anything when he had initially posted. That doesn't happen until later."

 

Red parts sound like you're sussing him.

[Hallia]

Only got to page 7, lots to comment on.

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 5:18 AM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 4:52 AM, dicetosser1 said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.
Sooh town.

 

Right here you declare sooh town. 2 words  Sooh Town. That sounds like clearing to me

 

Also you wanna tell me where I said Zander is Town?  here are ALL my posts this game to make it easy for you

You are such a clutz.  Dice, you said you read my second post where I elaborated on the read. What part of 'will reevaluate later' means 'clearing' to you...

 

I never said you said Zander was town. I am just fos'ing you because you are not thinking too critically about Zander right now, or what a double standard is even.

 

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 5:21 AM, dicetosser1 said:

im quite happy to call Princess Town sili   There are distinct differences in his tone when he is mafia. I haven't seen that yet. Ive just seen the energizer bunny Princess

 

 

keep bailing sili you said reevaluate AFTER your solid declaration. What? realised that you werent leaving yourself an out?

 

 

but you see that vote?? get used to seeing it. Cause its not going anywhere

Normally Dice's aggressive tone throws me off, and I find myself rather quick to scum read him, but taking a day and really going back and reading, I feel comfy with a town read on him, and Sili coming out as the scum in this pair.

  On 9/13/2015 at 7:45 AM, Sooh said:

Not sure why you are voting Sili. Seems to me like he had some foot in mouth disease, and that is what you're nailing him for. Let's see how the rest of toDay progresses. 

 

Dice seems ok for now, but we shall see. 

Now this seems like hedging to me.

 

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:12 PM, Razen said:

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 1:22 PM, Shad_ said:

Shad_, on 13 Sept 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

  On 9/13/2015 at 12:41 PM, Razen said:

Razen, on 13 Sept 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:


Sili and Dice are both trying to misrep each other. I don't see where Dice said he was clearing Zander - and I don't see where Sili said he was clearing Sooh. Sili gave a reason after he posted that Sooh was town - he believes she has difficulty faking tone. Dice's only mentions of Zander came when he voted him.


@ Sili - If you felt people were clearing Zander too early - who are they besides Dice? You posted this before Dice had even posted his first post:

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Sili Quirrels, on 12 Sept 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

Sooh town.

Why aren't you pushing those people over Dice then?

But what I find interesting is that we have two quick unexplained votes on Sili - and two people sitting on the fence about it. I like AJ's vote less than Zander's - Zander at least attempted to justify his, even though I don't agree with the justification. Disagreeing with Dice's assessment of the situation doesn't warrant a vote by itself, IMO. I don't like the wait and see attitude that Sooh and Thane are taking either.

[v]AJ[/v]
 

I find the wording of this odd. Do you think they're both doing it intentionally?

Yes. Sili did initially twist Dice's words to reach an untrue conclusion. But it worked. And from that point - it's not a misrep. When I reread it closely - Dice never said anything about clearing Zander until pressed by Sili - he even voted him as a joke. That's not clearing behavior, if you ask me. So why pick Dice to hop on out of all people regarding the clearing of Zander initially? He is the first one to bring the post up. And Sili hops all over him for that. Initially - it's wrong. He makes the assumption that Dice has cleared Zander based on tone when he hadn't actually done that at that point in the game. Because as Dice pointed out - he hadn't mentioned Zander being town or anything when he had initially posted. That doesn't happen until later.

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:20 AM, Sili Quirrels said:

Sili Quirrels, on 12 Sept 2015 - 9:20 PM, said:
 

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:09 AM, dicetosser1 said:

dicetosser1, on 12 Sept 2015 - 9:09 PM, said:

who said my conclusion is wrong? you come in saying Zanders getting cleared too quick   he basically got cleared for exactly the same reason you cleared sooh in the next sentence.

you say its bad one sentence and then do it yourself. Thats definitely talking out both sides of your mouth imo and I dont really see that as a good thing.

Even if i do agree that sooh is town based on the same thing you explain later. her tone.

But you didnt say that here you just threw out a double standard.

So let's be clear here. If you don't have a double standard, you are clearing Zander for faking tone when he spent the last mafia game showcasing how well he could fake tone?

And I am not 'clearing' Sooh so don't even.

But in the purple - Dice caves. He admits he's clearing Zander. Where Dice says "he basically got cleared for exactly the same reason you cleared sooh.."

The red is the point of Sili's push on Dice - which given the purple, is now a valid point to make. It's the part where Sili says "you are clearing Zander for faking tone..."

And yet Dice takes care to go back and say "I didn't clear Zander anywhere - you're misrepping me Sili."

I quoted the massive post where he does that below. In spoiler, so it doesn't kill people's eyes.

It's not a misrep at all from Sili after the purple point - it reads to me like Dice is going back to try and cover for his inadvertent admission regarding Zander. And call Sili out for making a bogus point when it really isn't.

  Reveal hidden contents

  On 9/13/2015 at 4:52 AM, dicetosser1 said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

Sooh town.

Right here you declare sooh town. 2 words Sooh Town. That sounds like clearing to me


Also you wanna tell me where I said Zander is Town? here are ALL my posts this game to make it easy for you

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:09 AM, dicetosser1 said:

who said my conclusion is wrong? you come in saying Zanders getting cleared too quick  he basically got cleared for exactly the same reason you cleared sooh in the next sentence.

you say its bad one sentence and then do it yourself. Thats definitely talking out both sides of your mouth imo and I dont really see that as a good thing.

Even if i do agree that sooh is town based on the same thing you explain later. her tone.

But you didnt say that here you just threw out a double standard.

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

Sooh town.

Ok so game post here not a fan of this post even tho i agree regarding sooh. He immediately talks outside both sides of his mouth  but he does give a reason later

Note the bold  thats not me saying Zander is town. Your post that I had issue with? It came before I had even posted in the gameand you complained that "people are clearing zander too quick" My response there in blue is that he was getting cleared bythose people you complained about for the same reason you declared sooh town.

Ididnt declare him town  i only voted Princess and +1d a gif


So sili wanna declare who the rest of your team is now? Cause i think i just screwed you out of your easy push.


vote sili

I can understand if Dice didn't realize that he actually made that statement regarding clearing Zander because of tone. But he made it - and that's what drew my attention. And what's very interesting is that AJ basically saw fit to hop along with that bogus reasoning that Dice put out there. Zander uses Sili's refusal to address the point anymore as the basis for his vote - which looks better from Zander, but again - it's based on the assumption that Dice didn't actually say what he did. Dice's vote is pure OMGUS - the others, not so much. And those are the ones I'm concerned with.

 

I really like this early involvement from Razen and Shad.  I have a townish lean on them both atm.

[Sili Quirrels]

  On 9/15/2015 at 1:13 AM, Hallia said:

H'ok, so catching up through page 5

 

Spoilering the back and forth of Dice/Sili

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

 

Sooh town.

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 6:10 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

I speculate Sooh has difficulty faking tone. Therefore her vote of you, which is not serious at all, is a good sign. I will reevaluate later though.

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 11:42 PM, dicetosser1 said:

 

Vote Princess for not singing as told too

 

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

 

Sooh town.

 

Ok so game post here    not a fan of this post even tho i agree regarding sooh.  He immediately talks outside both sides of his mouth   but he does give a reason later

 

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:09 AM, dicetosser1 said:

who said my conclusion is wrong? you come in saying Zanders getting cleared too quick   he basically got cleared for exactly the same reason you cleared sooh in the next sentence.

 

you say its bad one sentence and then do it yourself. Thats definitely talking out both sides of your mouth imo and I dont really see that as a good thing.

 

Even if i do agree that sooh is town based on the same thing you explain later. her tone.

 

But you didnt say that here you just threw out a double standard.

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:20 AM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:09 AM, dicetosser1 said:

who said my conclusion is wrong? you come in saying Zanders getting cleared too quick   he basically got cleared for exactly the same reason you cleared sooh in the next sentence.

 

you say its bad one sentence and then do it yourself. Thats definitely talking out both sides of your mouth imo and I dont really see that as a good thing.

 

Even if i do agree that sooh is town based on the same thing you explain later. her tone.

 

But you didnt say that here you just threw out a double standard.

So let's be clear here. If you don't have a double standard, you are clearing Zander for faking tone when he spent the last mafia game showcasing how well he could fake tone?

 

And I am not 'clearing' Sooh so don't even.

 

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 4:52 AM, dicetosser1 said:

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

 

Sooh town.

 

Right here you declare sooh town. 2 words  Sooh Town. That sounds like clearing to me

 

Also you wanna tell me where I said Zander is Town?  here are ALL my posts this game to make it easy for you

 

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 11:42 PM, dicetosser1 said:

k

 

  On 9/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Uh. Ppl clearing zander too fast.

 

Sooh town.

 

Ok so game post here    not a fan of this post even tho i agree regarding sooh.  He immediately talks outside both sides of his mouth   but he does give a reason later

 

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 2:09 AM, dicetosser1 said:

who said my conclusion is wrong? you come in saying Zanders getting cleared too quick   he basically got cleared for exactly the same reason you cleared sooh in the next sentence.

 

you say its bad one sentence and then do it yourself. Thats definitely talking out both sides of your mouth imo and I dont really see that as a good thing.

 

Even if i do agree that sooh is town based on the same thing you explain later. her tone.

 

But you didnt say that here you just threw out a double standard.

 

 

Note the bold   thats not me saying Zander is town. Your post that I had issue with? It came before I had even posted in the game   and you complained that "people are clearing zander too quick"  My response there in blue is that he was getting cleared bythose people you complained about for the same reason you declared sooh town.

 

I  didnt declare him town  i only voted Princess and +1d a gif

 

So sili  wanna declare who the rest of your team is now? Cause i think i just screwed you out of your easy push.

 

vote sili

 

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 5:11 AM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  Quote

Note the bold   thats not me saying Zander is town. Your post that I had issue with? It came before I had even posted in the game   and you complained that "people are clearing zander too quick"  My response there in blue is that he was getting cleared bythose people you complained about for the same reason you declared sooh town.

I  didnt declare him town  i only voted Princess and +1d a gif

 

I need to wrap my head around this, because I just answered your question. A double standard is common, even, in mafia and you've been around for ages so you should definitely not even raise an eyebrow at it.

Or you're just dice.

Anyway, Dice, I take it you won't clear Zander even though you're clearing Sooh? Well that's a double standard.

 

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 5:13 AM, Sili Quirrels said:

 

  Quote

So sili  wanna declare who the rest of your team is now? Cause i think i just screwed you out of your easy push.

vote sili

 

This, anyway, is a very dice comment.

 

  On 9/13/2015 at 4:54 AM, Andrej said:

[v]Sili[/v]

This is a bad vote.

 

 

 

 

Coming back in and having reread as far as I have, I think Dice defended himself very well, and may indeed have caught a scummy Sili.  I dislike that rather than really debate back with Dice, Sili chalks up the argument to "That's just dice"

 

If things haven't changed for me, I will probably vote Sili.

Dice didn't defend himself at all against the points I made.

 

As for me, I have been continually misrepped by him and others and I resent it.