[Advanced] The Usual Suspects Mafia - GAME OVER - COPS WIN

[Yates]

Why?

You dropped a lazy vote on lead wagon and parked it there.

Given Kiv was the CW to scum you realize he's probably Town, right?

Then you unvoted only when you realized the Lenlo wagon was going to go through and you didn't have the support for the Kiv wagon.

BUT you didn't vote Lenlo on the off chance the Kiv wagon became viable with some of the CFD activity.

 

Something like that.

 

Also, effort.

 

Fact is; I'm probably the most dangerous guy in the game right now [universal Town read = unlynchable] so I'm not likely to survive the night but I hope some others will look at you in ISO and see what I see. I might even try rebuilding my case on you before day break taking into account the new information from the flip.

[Nynaeve]

I'll try and go through Lenlo's content tomorrow and EOD highlights. But for now, gonna go crawl to my bed. Night guys

[Kivam]

OK, off to watch my girls in their camp performance of Beauty & the Beast.  Will be srsly absent til later

[Clovdyx]

I'm deferring all of my CFD privs to BFG for the rest of the game.

[alannalynn]

 

Why?

You dropped a lazy vote on lead wagon and parked it there.

Given Kiv was the CW to scum you realize he's probably Town, right?

Then you unvoted only when you realized the Lenlo wagon was going to go through and you didn't have the support for the Kiv wagon.

BUT you didn't vote Lenlo on the off chance the Kiv wagon became viable with some of the CFD activity.

 

Something like that.

 

Also, effort.

 

Fact is; I'm probably the most dangerous guy in the game right now [universal Town read = unlynchable] so I'm not likely to survive the night but I hope some others will look at you in ISO and see what I see. I might even try rebuilding my case on you before day break taking into account the new information from the flip.

 

My vote on Kiv was in no way a lazy vote and I might have come off that train sooner if I had that interaction with Kivam, instead of gathering information from reading so many pages at a time. As for Lenlo, I second guessed myself again. I wrote off Hally being mafia in HP because "scum wouldn't do that", but I was right in my suspicion earlier on in my catchups this game.

 

I don't think the Kivam train would have picked up at that point, it had stalled out and was mostly filled with votes that had been sitting there for a while, actually.

[Clovdyx]

 

Why?

You dropped a lazy vote on lead wagon and parked it there.

Given Kiv was the CW to scum you realize he's probably Town, right?

Then you unvoted only when you realized the Lenlo wagon was going to go through and you didn't have the support for the Kiv wagon.

BUT you didn't vote Lenlo on the off chance the Kiv wagon became viable with some of the CFD activity.

 

Something like that.

 

Also, effort.

 

Fact is; I'm probably the most dangerous guy in the game right now [universal Town read = unlynchable] so I'm not likely to survive the night but I hope some others will look at you in ISO and see what I see. I might even try rebuilding my case on you before day break taking into account the new information from the flip.

 

 

I'll be honest - I have no idea how she voted at this point, but I'm not following the reasoning on the bold.  That seems like it would be a point against her if Kivam - not Lenlo - had flipped mafia.  "You didn't have to support the Kivam wagon"...wouldn't Mafia!Laine WANT to support a wagon on Town!Kiv?

[Clovdyx]

Laine, did you ever get around to checking Lenlo out?

[alannalynn]

Laine, did you ever get around to checking Lenlo out?

I got halfway through Nolderf before falling asleep which sucks, I know, but I didn't have time to finish. I wanted to case that slot first as an alternative to Len, who I thought was borderline twtbw while he was getting all those votes

[Clovdyx]

 

Laine, did you ever get around to checking Lenlo out?

I got halfway through Nolderf before falling asleep which sucks, I know, but I didn't have time to finish. I wanted to case that slot first as an alternative to Len, who I thought was borderline twtbw while he was getting all those votes

 

 

Which votes are you talking about here?

[alannalynn]

The ones that built his train. I'm not going back on my mobile and I'm walking into work right now. But I thought he was a bit too stubborn putting himself out there and inconsistent to be so obviously wolf.

[Shad_]

Sweet, D1 scum! 

[keyholder21]

 

 

Why?

You dropped a lazy vote on lead wagon and parked it there.

Given Kiv was the CW to scum you realize he's probably Town, right?

Then you unvoted only when you realized the Lenlo wagon was going to go through and you didn't have the support for the Kiv wagon.

BUT you didn't vote Lenlo on the off chance the Kiv wagon became viable with some of the CFD activity.

 

Something like that.

 

Also, effort.

 

Fact is; I'm probably the most dangerous guy in the game right now [universal Town read = unlynchable] so I'm not likely to survive the night but I hope some others will look at you in ISO and see what I see. I might even try rebuilding my case on you before day break taking into account the new information from the flip.

 

 

I'll be honest - I have no idea how she voted at this point, but I'm not following the reasoning on the bold.  That seems like it would be a point against her if Kivam - not Lenlo - had flipped mafia.  "You didn't have to support the Kivam wagon"...wouldn't Mafia!Laine WANT to support a wagon on Town!Kiv?

 

 

To me, it looks bad on her, because she unvoted only after Kiv (most likely town due to being CW to scum and also DADV) wasn't the lead lynch anymore and then was also reluctant to vote a (now known) mafia member. 

 

 

Laine, did you ever get around to checking Lenlo out?

I got halfway through Nolderf before falling asleep which sucks, I know, but I didn't have time to finish. I wanted to case that slot first as an alternative to Len, who I thought was borderline twtbw while he was getting all those votes

 

 

I'm probably being dense, but what does 'twtbw' mean?  

[seph]

I'm not sure how much of the past 20 pages or so that I really took in, but at the moment I'm feeling worse about Lenlo at this point than Kivam or Zander/Seph

 

There's an internal consistency to Kivam in the Pral vote aftermath. I think the ATE thing with Zander is different 'standards' of the use of ATE. I'm a little concerned still by the inclusion of meta at all in the Pral vote, I don't understand how he thinks. but that argument is going nowhere and I'd rather judge by future actions.

 

I'm not sure how much value this really has, but at the moment I'm currently light town on Zander. The key thing that stood out to me in Belichick (after several ISO's) was how much difficulty he had reading people as mafia and how instead his inclination was to town read pretty much everyone (technically he had me as his bottom 2, but whenever I challenged him he'd move me to possible frustrated townie). This game from what I can recall, he's only really gone 'after' Kivam, but is treating several other people as possible suspects and more importantly isn't town reading the whole thread. I can't be confident in this assessment, given how rapidly he's improving and due to the large nature of the game, town reading everyone would stand out more here than there

 

Lenlo is still in my group of nulls/?

bfg can you explain what the bold is in regards too?

[Darthe]

Do you know the pain of having Nolder trapped in your head?  

 

No.  You don't.

 

Cool that we got a wolf, still lost as to what is going on here.  TBH I have no intent of reading 124 pages, but I am here atm.  Someone chat me up.

[Cory Caboose]

I vigged you Darthe so you mineswell not catch up

 

glgl

[seph]

yates questioning/pushing looks good, I like his prodding of leno, and alanna
bfg ties the votes with kiv, then later callls him null?
aj nudges lenlo but doesnt vote.

 

csarmi

 

He doesn't like your body?

 
Everyone likes my body imo

So do you expect disconnect and confusion to be scum traits in a 100+ page d1? I would think the opposite.

 

if this is towards lenlo, it looks like defending

[Cory Caboose]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT (unchanged)

 

Seph/Zander (4): ClovFG, John Snow, Wombicat, Lenlo

Kivish (5): Hallia, Nyce, Zander/Seph, Shad, Sili

Lenlo (2): CorKey, Razen

Wombicat (1): AJ

John Snow (2): Yates, Pral

 

 

Not Voting (6): Csarmi, Talya, Wish/Celeste, Kivish, Nolderf, Laine

 

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

 

Deadline is Monday Aug 17th @ 9am MST/Noon EST

 

 

Snow and Lenlo trains are crap.  Still waiting fr Clov to give me his read on AJ.  Would like to hear more from Shad and Razen.

 

bleh

 

I still have Wombat as a mild villager but some things I remember are gnawing at my brain

Him pushing against the wagons flipping from Kiv/Zander and decrying it was something I marked in my head and his progression on Lenlo is weird from "Lenlo is contributing on d1, nice surprise" to "Lenlo saying weird things is null" to eventually helping bury him in the CFD after Yates went crazy

[Clovdyx]

The ones that built his train. I'm not going back on my mobile and I'm walking into work right now. But I thought he was a bit too stubborn putting himself out there and inconsistent to be so obviously wolf.

 

That doesn't really answer the question at all, and it doesn't fit with your progress on him at all.  He was at four votes by yesterday evening, and this morning you made it a point to go back and look at him.  You said you were mildly suspicious of him when you unvoted Kiv.  I don't understand how you can think he was so scummy he's entering "TWTBAW" territory, and yet only be "mildly suspicious" of him.

[Cory Caboose]

Like this is page 67:

 

Also, Lenlo getting involved on D1 is a pleasant surprise.

 

Like the gap until this vote count (~2 hours before EOD) he never really talks about Lenlo at all besides "new wagons are crap" and encouraging him to fight his lynch while remaining "impartial" as he is null on Lenlo

 

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

Sephander (3): John Snow, Wombicat, Lenlo
Kivam (4): Hallia, Nyce, Sephander, Sili
Lenlo (6): CorKey, Razen, AJ, Yates, ClovFG, Kivam
John Snow (2): Pral, Wish/Celeste
Hallia (1): Talya


Not Voting (4): Csarmi, Nolderf, Shad, Laine

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday Aug 17th @ 9am MST/Noon EST

DEADLINE IS IN 2 HOURS AND 15 MINUTES

 

But when it looks like Lenlo is very likely going down, he starts to move toward "well actually I have Lenlo has wolfy":

 

FTR, I am ok with Lenlo being lazy and enigmatic, but his confused AJ with someone else thing is pretty bad, especially coming right after pressure had been mounting on him regarding his AJ comments.  It looks like he fabricated an opinion on AJ and instead of admitting to it is trying to say it was really an opinion on someone else (who shall remain unnamed).

 

 

[Cory Caboose]

 

Lenlo (3): CorKey, Razen, AJ

 

 

 

 

[Cory Caboose]

 

From the hip

 

Nyn/Dice

Razen

Yates

 

Hallia

Sili

wish-tree/Celeste

Wombat/Ocicat

Clov/BFG

AJ

Seph/Zander

Shad

Pralaya

 

Kivam/Mish

Talya

Laine

John Snow

Csarmi

Lenlo

Nolder/Darthe

 

UPDATE! Pre-reread gut feels yolo soulreads etc. etc. etc.

 

Nyn/Dice

Razen

Yates

AJ

 

Clov/BFG

Seph/Zander

wish-tree/Celeste

 

Hallia

Sili

Wombat/Ocicat

Kivam

Csarmi

Shad

 

Pralaya

Talya

Laine

John Snow

Nolder/Darthe

 

Hopefully rereading can clear up and sort out the pile of greys/oranges because I know that ~11 players in there probably isn't incredibly helpful and I feel worse about most of my light townreads from d1 as they sort of leveled off after awhile

[WWWwombat]

Not going to apologize for updating my reads based on new content, Cory.  Lenlo is a wolfy villager and you know that.  Remember that time on VS when I was mason lovers with him and I was one of the only people who didn't want to lynch him?  IIRC, your wolf team ended up killing me for that.  That's the kind of town play I expect on a routine basis from Lenlo, so it's really hard to scumread him, especially on D1.  The backtrack on AJ was what put me over the edge into WTL territory on him.  I wasn't confident at all that he was scum, but saw him as a better lynch than Kivam.

[Yates]

I'll be honest - I have no idea how she voted at this point, but I'm not following the reasoning on the bold.  That seems like it would be a point against her if Kivam - not Lenlo - had flipped mafia.  "You didn't have to support the Kivam wagon"...wouldn't Mafia!Laine WANT to support a wagon on Town!Kiv?

Not if she didn't want to be on a Town wagon at EOD. Anyway, I'm just sort of winging it because: night time.

[Cory Caboose]

Not going to apologize for updating my reads based on new content, Cory.  Lenlo is a wolfy villager and you know that.  Remember that time on VS when I was mason lovers with him and I was one of the only people who didn't want to lynch him?  IIRC, your wolf team ended up killing me for that.  That's the kind of town play I expect on a routine basis from Lenlo, so it's really hard to scumread him, especially on D1.  The backtrack on AJ was what put me over the edge into WTL territory on him.  I wasn't confident at all that he was scum, but saw him as a better lynch than Kivam.

 

I'm not asking you for an apology :confused:

 

I get it's easy to say "Lenlo being wolfy isn't alignment indicative so that's a crap wagon"

 

It's also a really easy reason to defend him if you're a wolf with him

 

I think the overall lesson is people who are "wolfy villagers" still aren't always villagers when they are wolfy and they are probably better lynches than people who can resolve their own role to at least some extent

 

Who did you want to lynch? I saw a request on Salami a few times

 

The only gripe I have with Salami is the "Lenlo isn't a day 1 read" post he made because it's total bull, Lenlo's whole philosophy as a wolf "I think I'm good at not looking like the scummiest player so I'm good as a wolf" and his villager game is so similar range-wise that he's not a day-any read afaict

[Yates]

I still have Wombat as a mild villager but some things I remember are gnawing at my brain

Him pushing against the wagons flipping from Kiv/Zander and decrying it was something I marked in my head and his progression on Lenlo is weird from "Lenlo is contributing on d1, nice surprise" to "Lenlo saying weird things is null" to eventually helping bury him in the CFD after Yates went crazy

It doesn't concern me all that much. I was going to agree that it was good to see Lenlo contributing. Ironically, it's that contribution that lead to his downfall. But anyway, Wombat seeing Lenlo posting during his catch up is fine. Wombat reevaluating after the case is also fine. If you want to feel uneasy about the attempted CFD onto Csarmi? Your circus, your monkeys. I've got other fish to fry.