Game of Thrones Season 5 - BOOK SPOILERS!

[Nolder]

I knew they'd **** this show up eventually.

 

Edited

[Nolder]

 

 

[Niniel]

*cries*

 

 

I knew she was going to die but it felt like they did a bad job at building up a situation where Stannis "had no choice". Some fire, dead horses - "Well, I think I will sacrify my daughter." I´m so sorry to see Kerry go. She has done an amazing job as Shiren. She was great even in the last scene. I actually thought the scene in itself was good but the buildup was bad. I´m happy to see that Selyse actually had some second thoughts. The show has now made Stannis a villain. I don´t approve. Does this mean that Brienne will kill him in the next episode.

 

It was a good scene when Alliser Thorne stared at Jon and the free folk. Tense moment. I wonder if Olly will stab Jon in the next episode. 

 

The Dorne scenes didn´t add anything to the story. It has been a pointless story overall. Too bad since I really like Doran. At least I´m happy that Bronn is still alive. (Although I would gladely change him for Shiren.)

 

Arya - No, don´t do it! Or at least, kill him fast before he can rape you!

 

The fighting pit: I loved it! Well, most of it. Excellent music. I loved Daario vs. Hizzdar. I was surprised that Hizzdar was killed. Wonderful Jorah got to be a hero! Drogon was amazing. The only thing that looked weird was the flying away part. I came to think about Harry flying on his broomstick. Ha, ha. 

 

Maybe I will add more later. 

 

 

Hard to rate the episode. Lows and highs. 

[WWWwombat]

Yeah, they probably should have had Ramsay burn the supplies an episode or two earlier and then played up all the deaths from starvation and cold more rather than just having Davos give like one Cold Count.

 

I can't help but think of the parallels between Stannis and Agamemnon here.  I wonder if Stannis will meet the same fate

[Zander?]

Dragon FTW!!!!

 

Need more Ramsey!!!!

[WWWwombat]

Dragon FTW!!!!

 

Need more Ramsey!!!!

 

A delightful shot of his entrails strewn among the weirwoods would suit me.

[Zander?]

 

Dragon FTW!!!!

 

Need more Ramsey!!!!

 

A delightful shot of his entrails strewn among the weirwoods would suit me.

 

 

ah come on!!! Ramsey is just the right kind of Crazy....like he totally needs more airtime....and to live unless HE attacks a Dragon and goes out all epic like!!!

[Verbal32]

 

 

Dragon FTW!!!!

 

Need more Ramsey!!!!

 

A delightful shot of his entrails strewn among the weirwoods would suit me.

 

 

ah come on!!! Ramsey is just the right kind of Crazy....like he totally needs more airtime....and to live unless HE attacks a Dragon and goes out all epic like!!!

 

 

After his scene with Sansa, I'm pretty sure you're alone on an island thinking he should live.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

Dragon FTW!!!!

 

Need more Ramsey!!!!

 

A delightful shot of his entrails strewn among the weirwoods would suit me.

 

 

ah come on!!! Ramsey is just the right kind of Crazy....like he totally needs more airtime....and to live unless HE attacks a Dragon and goes out all epic like!!!

 

 

After his scene with Sansa, I'm pretty sure you're alone on an island thinking he should live.

 

 

i liked him before that....im just saying i like the crazy evil character who isnt afraid to get into the thick of things,  and if he has go out I want it to be Epic.  i root for team evil for often then not. though if Sansa gets her revenge I wont be upset,

[Verbal32]

Oh, I root for the bad guys plenty as well.....but there is a line bad guys can cross that makes them no longer able to be rooted for.  Ramsey has crossed that line for me.

[Red2111]

 

 

 

 

Dragon FTW!!!!

 

Need more Ramsey!!!!

 

A delightful shot of his entrails strewn among the weirwoods would suit me.

 

 

ah come on!!! Ramsey is just the right kind of Crazy....like he totally needs more airtime....and to live unless HE attacks a Dragon and goes out all epic like!!!

 

 

After his scene with Sansa, I'm pretty sure you're alone on an island thinking he should live.

 

 

i liked him before that....im just saying i like the crazy evil character who isnt afraid to get into the thick of things,  and if he has go out I want it to be Epic.  i root for team evil for often then not. though if Sansa gets her revenge I wont be upset,

 

 

speaking as a person that generally favors the villains over the good guys, i have to side with Verb and Womby on this one.

 

theres being a bad guy, and then theres being Bin Laden.  Ramsey went from "epic villain" to "bin laden" a few episodes ago dude.

 

the only thing i'm rooting for with him right now, is for someone to euthanize the rabid dog.

 

edit - when he married Jeyen i stopped liking him as a villain in the books.  it was a very very nasty line to cross and imo served no purpose other than Martin seeing "oh i can use him to do even nastier shit to my characters because dude is psycho"

 

i think Martin was trying for a "Joker" sorta evil with Ramsey, and just failed at capture it because he pushed too hard at inserting sick and demented things into the story.  Joker imo is the perfect villain   Ramsey .... not so much

[Red2111]

haven't watched all of the episode yet, at the brothel scene where Arya gets shooed out ...  BUT if Arya gets raped i'm quitting the show.  that will be a change i wont be able to stomach tbh

[Davrick]

haven't watched all of the episode yet, at the brothel scene where Arya gets shooed out ...  BUT if Arya gets raped i'm quitting the show.  that will be a change i wont be able to stomach tbh

 

 

I think there is a scene in Winds of Winter that deals with Arya in a brothel or something.  I haven't really read any of the spoiled stuff so far, but from what I understand she was pretending to be someone else.

 

Also....why Stannis Why!!!!!

[SinisterDeath]

You know.. considering all the details we've learned about her illness she was clearly on borrowed time. Which just makes it all the harder, cause you can't help but like her as a character.

I really want to see the onion freak out on Stannis.

Maybe let Lady Stone Heart Deal with both Stannis and Ramsey?

[Davrick]

I'd love to see Lady Stone Heart show up in the show!

[asha'he-man]

That was a straight up Falcor moment!!

[asha'he-man]

As a side note, if you watch the behind the scenes after every episode of HBO. They say that GRRM was the one who told them about shareen (sp) being burnt by stannis

[Nolder]

You know.. considering all the details we've learned about her illness she was clearly on borrowed time. Which just makes it all the harder, cause you can't help but like her as a character.

I really want to see the onion freak out on Stannis.

Maybe let Lady Stone Heart Deal with both Stannis and Ramsey?

Shireen isn't ill nor was she living on borrowed time. 

She's scarred by Greyscale much like someone might be scarred by chickenpox.

Stannis called in healers from across the land when she caught Greyscale as an infant and they cured her.

 

As a side note, if you watch the behind the scenes after every episode of HBO. They say that GRRM was the one who told them about shareen (sp) being burnt by stannis

Unless something extremely weird happens in the novels I don't see how that's going to happen.

 

 

In the books Shireen is at Castle Black miles and miles away from Stannis, the army, and Melisandre. Unless Stannis goes all the way back to The Wall from Winterfell Shireen is out of his reach. Additionally I believe it's been revealed through excerpts from the upcoming novel Winds of Winter that Stannis gave orders to put Shireen on the Iron Throne should he fall in battle.

 

 

What the showrunners did was a massive divergence from the books.

[SinisterDeath]

 

Shireen isn't ill nor was she living on borrowed time. 

She's scarred by Greyscale much like someone might be scarred by chickenpox.

Stannis called in healers from across the land when she caught Greyscale as an infant and they cured her.

I'm almost positive that greyscale in GoT is generally incurable.. It's the same thing Jorah caught from those guys. It's not equatable to chickenpox by any means... 

She was probably cured via some kind of magic, halted it. But I still think she might have been on borrowed time. Which might have been why the red witch wanted to burn her in the first place.  (aside from the immediate everyone starving, make the battle go in there favor)

 

 

 

What the showrunners did was a massive divergence from the books.

We already knew there were going to e massive divergence from the books.. prior interviews have said as much.

The show may very well be G.R.R Martin's Red Herring for his book.

[Nolder]

I'm almost positive that greyscale in GoT is generally incurable.. It's the same thing Jorah caught from those guys. It's not equatable to chickenpox by any means... 

She was probably cured via some kind of magic, halted it. But I still think she might have been on borrowed time. Which might have been why the red witch wanted to burn her in the first place.  (aside from the immediate everyone starving, make the battle go in there favor)

I don't believe it was explained how she was cured. She just was. Could have been magic I guess.

There is nothing to suggest she's living on borrowed time unless you think GRRM is supplying untrustworthy narrators on that subject. Possible? Sure. Likely? Not very.

[Red2111]

iirc, what Nol says is right.   the grey scale was halted via lots of healers and money spent on halting the processes.  She was born with grey scale, meaning by this time it would have progressed over her entire body and killed her if it was still active; not only that, but people she touched would have also shown signs of grey scale by now (which isn't the case).  she is, for all intense purposes, cured (or at least, she's in a remission thats lasted for years).

 

 

that said, i'm still very close to quitting the show.  the major character arc changes they made in the show this season make absolutely no sense towards plot or character development and just come off as "half assed try to get the shock 'red wedding' factor back".   there was no build up to this fire or sacrifice, it just comes out of left field.  the Red Lady should have been harping about needing kings blood for more than a few episodes.  they should have showed more of a down ward spiral in Stannis's camp to explain this.

 

i get why they chose it, and why they chose who they did (given they've cut out all of the other options); i just think it was poorly executed.

 

 

tbh, i dont recall Arya parading around in a brothel in the books.  she went from selling clams and getting information for the faceless god to blind girl (and thats where the story leaves off).  if she does do that, then its in the new book and i haven't read any excerpts from Winter.  nor do i plan to.

 

 

that said, my fav scene from book 5 was Danny & Drogon, and i'm glad to say that scene at least didn't disappoint.

 

edit - speaking of Danny and greyscale.  Jorah touched her ...  does that mean she now has grey scale?   or does a person need to be touched with a visibly effect part of the body.

 

 

my main concern right now is Sam.  he's not supposed to be on the wall, yet he is.  the ceasar style assassination is going to go down next episode, if Sam is still at the wall he'll be killed along with Jon.  and unlike Jon, Sam's not a warg so if he dies its perma-death .....  <_<

[Songstress]

1) The wildlings believe that greyscale can't be cured - in ADwD, Val refuses to have Shireen anywhere near Monster, because she's "unclean" - she says the Grey Death sleeps, only to wake again.  So indeed, it was set up that Shireen was on borrowed time due to her affliction.

 

2) In the books, Selyse, Shireen and Melisandre are all at the wall, while Stannis is marching to Winterfell.  My guess is the show runners were told by GRRM that Shireen does get sacrificed by Melisandre, but it's not Stannis' decision, and it may be part of the aftermath of the Pink Letter.  Mel and Selyse may make the decision to burn Shireen in order to resurrect Stannis, figuring that the Boltons killed him - and Mel probably specified "Azor Ahai" in her prayer to R'hllor and Jon gets resurrected instead.  

 

3) Regardless, that was some absolutely amazing acting by Stephen Dillane, Kerry Ingram, and everyone else.  And nobody is ever freaking going to like Stannis again.

[WWWwombat]

Melisandre definitely stayed at Castle Black for a significant plot reason.  I was sort of hoping Ghost would find her and lead her to Jon (so she could Beric him), but that's a good theory, Tress, especially given what we've heard of Melisandre's visions.

[Red2111]

1) The wildlings believe that greyscale can't be cured - in ADwD, Val refuses to have Shireen anywhere near Monster, because she's "unclean" - she says the Grey Death sleeps, only to wake again.  So indeed, it was set up that Shireen was on borrowed time due to her affliction.

 

2) In the books, Selyse, Shireen and Melisandre are all at the wall, while Stannis is marching to Winterfell.  My guess is the show runners were told by GRRM that Shireen does get sacrificed by Melisandre, but it's not Stannis' decision, and it may be part of the aftermath of the Pink Letter.  Mel and Selyse may make the decision to burn Shireen in order to resurrect Stannis, figuring that the Boltons killed him - and Mel probably specified "Azor Ahai" in her prayer to R'hllor and Jon gets resurrected instead.  

 

3) Regardless, that was some absolutely amazing acting by Stephen Dillane, Kerry Ingram, and everyone else.  And nobody is ever freaking going to like Stannis again.

 

1 - i can get what your saying here ...  but its sorta like the argument of a hedge doctor versus brain surgeon when talking about cancer.   a hedge doctor says "you aint cured, it'll come back" and the brain surgeon says "we cut out all of the cancer, your in remission and theres a 99.9% chance it wont come back" i'm gonna believe the brain surgeon *nods*  it sets up doubt on Shireen being cured, sure ...  but its not a credible doubt ... its more like superstition because they've never seen it cured.  (granted not seeing it cured is the majority, isn't Shireen the only one to have been cured??)

 

2 - very true.  iirc the Millie (Melisandre) starts to doubt Stannis being R'hllor and starts to take a bigger interest in Jon.  which is why she stayed on the Wall.  i had forgotten Stannis brought his daughter and wife with him to the Wall.  i thought they had stayed put. o.o  if there has to be a sacrifice to resurect someone, then i can see Shireen being the throw away character.  but i dont think there has to be a sacrifice to do that.  they didn't sacrifice to geth old dude back after the Hound killed him (Sir Barlec i think his name was, dude with the flaming sword), and as far as i can recall, there wasn't mention of a sacrifice needed to bring back Cat ....  but then again her coming back changed her character away from Cat Stark to Stoneheart ....   if Jon comes back ...  nay when Jon comes back, it better not be like Stoneheart <_<

 

3 - i agree.  my stomach actually turned during the scene with her yelling and screaming like that and i teared up *nods*  i'm with Tina on this.  great scene, but the play up to it was handled poorly

[Songstress]

@ Red #2 - True, Thoros of Myr didn't sacrifice anyone to bring Ser Beric back multiple times, although Ser Beric did die himself when resurrecting Catelyn.  But as Mirri Maz Duur said to Dany, "Only death can pay for life". Ser Beric lost part of his humanity every time when he was brought back by Thoros.   The best way to resurrect someone per Mel's shadow magic is probably going to require a sacrifice... and also, if Mel is at the wall and Stannis is presumed dead somewhere outside of Winterfell, it may be that the only way open to her to try to resurrect Azor Ahai is to sacrifice with king's blood.

 

 

It just occurred to me that - if my theory is right - when Melisandre burns Shireen, she'll be waking a dragon (a Targaryen) from stone (death/being frozen in the ice cells), in a way.

 

Hah.