The Inglorious - Kitchen Sink Bastard Mafia by Darthe

[Pralaya]

^^^^

EBWOP: This post should have come earlier 

[Pralaya]

So, I am thinking that I might move night deadlines to 12 hours.  This one has been 18 and we are 15 and a half hours through so far.  From what I could gather nearly everyone checks in every ~8 or so and the one or two who don't only don't do so because they don't play on weekends etc.  

 

Would anyone mind that DL or is it too short?  Just to clarify, this would only be for future nights.

 

Nope, doesn't work for me. From the time I sleep from 12:00 AM to when i reach office 12:00 PM I don't check DM. Especially if the deadline is midnight or so for me, 12 hours just comes on the blind-spot. 

[TheRagnarok]

Morning all.

 

Soooo nothing is happening I see.

[Yates]

 

Alright - deal time, AJ....

 

I will vote Mynd if his buddy doesn't reveal in the next hour.

 

If Mynd is "vetted" by his "buddy" would you be willing to lynch Lenlo in the 11th hour?

 

Why is everyone letting this pass? This was a blatant role fishing and trying to get to know who the other mason was

 

Maybe it's just me but I *think* everyone is letting this "pass" because it "was a blatant role fishing and trying to get to know who the other mason was."

 

In other words, "vet yoself before you wreck yoself." Unless you think scum have two killing roles in a single night, that was the right play. Masons have virtually no value to the Town at night. Their value to the Town is in having TWO vetted Townies, which reduces the lynch pool and gives scum two fewer places to hide. So, as we've pointed out, scum would have to make a decision as to spending two nights killing masons - which buys two more nights for potential investigation roles - OR letting the Masons live in an attempt to find those investigation roles but knowing that for every night they fail the less cover they will have.

 

Mynd lied. He got caught in his lie and wasn't able to back out of it in a graceful manner. Mynd was lynched for his lie. For you to pretend that lynching a liar [on Day 1, mind you] that flipped Town AFTER THE FACT was a bad thing is pretty scummy. Do I have to go back and find an example of you supporting a "lynch all liars" policy/compromise lynch? Or are you willing to admit you are full of stinky brown dookey?

 

I feel like we need to have a seminar on how to properly fake claim and when NOT to fake claim. Fake claiming a role that should be vettable as a lover - especially with little to no pressure - was suicidal.

[Pralaya]

Maybe it's just me but I *think* everyone is letting this "pass" because it "was a blatant role fishing and trying to get to know who the other mason was."

 

In other words, "vet yoself before you wreck yoself." Unless you think scum have two killing roles in a single night, that was the right play. Masons have virtually no value to the Town at night. Their value to the Town is in having TWO vetted Townies, which reduces the lynch pool and gives scum two fewer places to hide. So, as we've pointed out, scum would have to make a decision as to spending two nights killing masons - which buys two more nights for potential investigation roles - OR letting the Masons live in an attempt to find those investigation roles but knowing that for every night they fail the less cover they will have.

 

Mynd lied. He got caught in his lie and wasn't able to back out of it in a graceful manner. Mynd was lynched for his lie. For you to pretend that lynching a liar [on Day 1, mind you] that flipped Town AFTER THE FACT was a bad thing is pretty scummy. Do I have to go back and find an example of you supporting a "lynch all liars" policy/compromise lynch? Or are you willing to admit you are full of stinky brown dookey?

 

I feel like we need to have a seminar on how to properly fake claim and when NOT to fake claim. Fake claiming a role that should be vettable as a lover - especially with little to no pressure - was suicidal.

 

 

The bolded one is a very simple assumption and I don't think you would use it to justify a role-fishing. I have been a mason with a PR before (heck it was a mason+lover+PR in that game). We apparently have a miller with a PR in this game. So, assuming the other mason would just claim is taking an easy way out. That is exactly what I am pointing out. 

 

Whether Mynd lied or not is not the question. I am pointing out your action at the time with the information that we had, which I find iffy. 

[Darthe]

Vote Count 1:

 

Len (2/5): Yates, Rand

TG (1/5): AJ

 

Not Voting (6/9):

Len, TG, Wombat, Laya, Rags, Darthe

 

Deadline in 62 hours!

[Yates]

I am pointing out your action at the time with the information that we had, which I find iffy.

And this is where we disagree. Go take a look at how that day developed. Mynd dug his own grave specifically by claiming for no reason. When you claim a role that you can self vet - you NEED to self vet. That's not actually a "role fish," that's how you complete your claim. Mischaracterizing a proper role reveal as a role fish is the only "iffy" thing to come out of this exchange - and that's on you.

 

WRT the bolded part above? Well no duh. I'm pretty sure everyone here knows what the value of a mason is at night. Your proclamation that my assertion that masons are of "limited value" at night is a "very simple assumption" is childish and pedantic. It also has no bearing on why Mynd should have kept his moth shut or self-vetted. And you know it.

 

Here's the information we had at the time:

 

1. Lenlo was pushing a mod lynch

2. I was cheerleading a Lenlo lynch

3. Lenlo was taking heat wrt this policy

4. Out of nowhere Mynd made a suspect vote and statement following Red's replace out post

5. Mynd took some heat from two or three players for the statement

6. Mynd was never the leading wagon but decided to claim mason

7. The timing of the claim was suspect and the claim was vettable

8. Mynd refused to self-vet

9. Mynd's refusal to self-vet along with his suspect post, questionably timed claim, and pending deadline made him the most viable lynch option

10. Mynd got lynched

 

The difference between how Lenlo handled the pressure and how Mynd handled the pressure is, in my estimation, why Mynd was lynched over Lenlo. And, ftr, Lenlo had EASILY twice the pressure Mynd ever had. Sure, in retrospect you can look at it and see that Mynd simply made a mistake and panicked but that's not how you read the game AS IT'S HAPPENING. As it's happening, Mynd simply looks fishy - for good reason as it turns out - and fishy people tend to get lynched.

 

This is the last I'm going to say about it outside of this; bringing up the dead and rewriting the narrative on the events that lead to a mislynch is a high quality scum indicator. You have just bumped yourself from my null-suspicious pile to my scum pile lickety split.

[RandA lThor]

unvote

 

while I wait for Lenlo's response.

[Tyler Glembo]

[v]TG[/v]

 

1) You can't harp on me for pushing Mynd's lynch when you were ON the wagon and doubly not around near DL.

 

2) Using Despot's case against me posthumously really just fingers you as scum. Narrative detected.

 

Dude, are you even reading the thread?  I voted Mynd for his lol!bad vote on Red.  Then, I was offline for the weekend and afterwards Mynd claimed.  If I were here I would have unvoted in a heartbeat because voting a claimed mason is troll bad scum play.

 

You, on the other hand, voted Mynd after the mason claim.  Scumbad.  Then you double down stating that his mason partner could claim later which makes no sense at all.

 

What would have happened if you lynched Mynd and then both Lenlo and Pral claim to be his mason partner?  There is no way of knowing which is or isn't.  So explain that one to me.

 

Finally, too many people on DM don't bother to look at good casing or reads from players who have died.  It's bad play to ignore it after the fact, so I'm not going to.  You trying to call me scum and refusing to answer anything about Despo's casing of you is nothing more than squirming.

 

Let's lynch and move on.

[Tyler Glembo]

@Pral - Looking at AJ's play of voting the claimed mason, what do you think of a) Despo's case on him b) My voting him and c) his refusal to answer anything but instead OMGUS vote me and try to squirm away?

[Tyler Glembo]

@Rand - Same questions for you ^^^^

[RandA lThor]

@Rand - Same questions for you ^^^^

dsnt lk gd, bt wtng fr Lnl nd hs hnt xplntn rght nw

[Andrej]

@TG - check your facts bro. I STARTED the Mynd wagon which allowed you to lazily band wagon onto it later for 'lolcatting' as you put in your post. I suggest YOU read the thread before you try to misrep me further.

[Andrej]

Lynching Mynd might not have been the best option but I stuck to my guns because he could've easily been lying to buy himself more time. He was also given time to vet himself, and seeing as how he was actually a Lover, it makes sense why he didn't claim but that's more on him than us since he tried to gambit for his life.

 

The argument about how his partner could've claimed later and led to a CC battle is irrelevant honestly. If that happened would we obviously look at both players, their play, and then make an informed decision that way. SIMPLE.

[Tyler Glembo]

@TG - check your facts bro. I STARTED the Mynd wagon which allowed you to lazily band wagon onto it later for 'lolcatting' as you put in your post. I suggest YOU read the thread before you try to misrep me further.

 

You're right, you voted Mynd earlier, then pushed him HARD after the mason claim.

 

Lynching Mynd might not have been the best option but I stuck to my guns because he could've easily been lying to buy himself more time. He was also given time to vet himself, and seeing as how he was actually a Lover, it makes sense why he didn't claim but that's more on him than us since he tried to gambit for his life.

 

The argument about how his partner could've claimed later and led to a CC battle is irrelevant honestly. If that happened would we obviously look at both players, their play, and then make an informed decision that way. SIMPLE.

 

Buy himself more time?  Like a day or two at most?  And we could have pushed for a partner claim at night, so we wouldn't run into WIFOM.

 

As for your "SIMPLE" comment, it is anything but.  In fact, it would put town into a major WIFOM situation that might very well lose the game later on. 

[Lenlo]

unvote

 

while I wait for Lenlo's response.

 

 

 

 

 

Lenlo, I need to confirm something so tell everything you know that links Hennessy with me that you did or you know of?

I gave you a cup of Hennessy last night knowing you wouldnt know what it did. You have the option to drink it at any time if at all. I know what the Hennessy does but atm refuse to tell you.

 

Interesting.  One more question, when did Darthe (specific time) let you know I didn't use the potion?

 

He never told me, you didnt drink it. Must I give more info on the role at this point to satisfy your curiosity or is this acceptable? Id prefer not to reveal what it actually does except that suffice to say everyone whos town should drink it when I give it to them or else be branded scum at this point. Thats right, drink the koolaid and go to sleep you little bastards.

 

I would drink anything Lenlo gives me.

<3

 

Already responded Rand. Darthe never told me you didnt drink the thing, but seeing as nothing happened I suspected you hadnt. Unless I am required to reveal what it actually does im not revealing it. I will say this though, anyone who is town should drink the cup.

[Yates]

I will say this though, anyone who is town should drink the cup.

[Lenlo]

Yates will you drink my koolaid?

[Yates]

Yates will you drink my koolaid?

No. I don't want to see your van either.

[Tyler Glembo]

 

Yates will you drink my koolaid?

No. I don't want to see your van either.

 

 

The one down by the river.

 

@Yates - You went along with the crap about lynching Mynd.  How do you think of it now looking back at AJ's push on a claimed mason?

[Lenlo]

Well you should drink it if your town Yates. Scum? Scum shouldnt drink it. Stay away, no Hennessy for you. If I give you some its only to taunt you with it.

[Tyler Glembo]

Well you should drink it if your town Yates. Scum? Scum shouldnt drink it. Stay away, no Hennessy for you. If I give you some its only to taunt you with it.

 

My weekend plans include a bottle of Courvoisier and a butt.

 

[Yates]

@Yates - You went along with the crap about lynching Mynd.  How do you think of it now looking back at AJ's push on a claimed mason?

I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. That said, I can at least follow the logic. Mynd botched that thing up pretty good so it's hard to figure out who is scum pushing that wagon and who is Town. Ostensibly I can imagine a scenario in which there's only 1 scum on the wagon because Mynd was THAT EASY to get mislynched. He basically did all the work for scum.

 

You, on the other hand, I can't wrap my mind around. You were also the counter wagon to Town so that doesn't help your case.

[Tyler Glembo]

 

@Yates - You went along with the crap about lynching Mynd.  How do you think of it now looking back at AJ's push on a claimed mason?

I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. That said, I can at least follow the logic. Mynd botched that thing up pretty good so it's hard to figure out who is scum pushing that wagon and who is Town. Ostensibly I can imagine a scenario in which there's only 1 scum on the wagon because Mynd was THAT EASY to get mislynched. He basically did all the work for scum.

 

You, on the other hand, I can't wrap my mind around. You were also the counter wagon to Town so that doesn't help your case.

 

 

I don't see how Mynd botched it so badly.  His play was terribad before the claim, but once he claimed he should have been given the time to not out his partner until at least the end of N1.  I think scum jumped all over the Mynd wagon.

[Lenlo]

Yates Q: If I was a poisoner why would my drink be optional? Cause Rand can choose whether or not to drink the Hennessy at any time he wants if at all. If he doesnt it will just sit in his PM box the entire game.