Illeyna Revealed

[Nick Trano]

If Egwene is anything, it's that bitch Latra Posae Decume who also worked tirelessly to undermine the Dragon, just in the second age. 

[Mr Ares]

If Egwene is anything, it's that bitch Latra Posae Decume who also worked tirelessly to undermine the Dragon, just in the second age. 

Latra Posae fought the Shadow for decades after LTT's ill-fated misadventure, and her actions helped ensure that only one half of the Source was tainted rather than both, as would otherwise have been the case. So what you're saying is: Egwene is awesome.

[wotfan4472]

That is quite true Ares, but going by their argument at Merrilor, and whenever they were together, she is Latra Posae Decume. Look at her preparing to risk another breaking and retainting of Saidin. It is what would come about had Moraine not shown up. A repeat of the Fateful Concord, but with much more immediate consequences. Both Saidin and Saidar tainted and unable to stop the Dark One from winning.

 

Also very good point mb.

[Tsukibana]

I'm kinda leaning towards the Latra Poase POV, myself. Half the time I wanted to reach out and shake some sense into that girl.

[wotfan4472]

Which is what I wanted to do too Tsukibana

[Barid Bel Medar]

Let's get the topic back onto the actual topic. Not about how awesome or crap Egwene is. Ilyena - who is she? 

 

Personally, I'm in favour of the Narg theory. The last person Lews Therin killed and the first (being) Rand killed. A tragedy indeed. 

[Rachel_VIP.]

As said, i don't think Egwene's importance to the story is proof for her being Ilyena. Neither Robert Jordan, nor Brandon Sanderson have said her present self is a main character in the series. Maybe it is, but there is no reason we should believe it to be so. We all have our opinions but no one, save Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson, can be sure. I feel the love between Lews Therin and Ilyena is one that lasts. Rand and Egwene loved each other like brother and sister. If it was romantic love, them not being able to be together wouldn't change it. Love is love. Despite the circumstances. The most likely possibility is Min, Elayne or Aviendha although I consider one other woman too. Too bad we'll never know.

[Suttree]

If Egwene is anything, it's that bitch Latra Posae Decume who also worked tirelessly to undermine the Dragon, just in the second age. 

 

Totally, what a "bitch" LPD was. Would have been rad for the world if both saidin AND saidar had been tainted.

 

Robert Jordan

Okay, then you know about the political struggles that were going on, and the different plans to try and end the War of the Shadow, and seal up the...and why various groups thought that one plan or the other was the best way to go. And in the end, what resulted was the so-called “Fatal Covenant” [it was actually the “Fateful Concord”], which had the female Aes Sedai swearing not to go along with Lews Therin’s plan, that they would not support it. The result of this was that Lews Therin carried out his plan with only male Aes Sedai, so there were only male Aes Sedai channeling there, which was a lucky thing, because if there’d been women as well, then both saidin and saidar would have been tainted.

[Tsukibana]

Could Illyena channel? IIRC, she could. That rules out Min.

[Rachel_VIP.]

Could Illyena channel? IIRC, she could. That rules out Min.

 

Unless it is possible in one life a person to be able to channel but not in another. 

[Mr Ares]

Could Illyena channel? IIRC, she could. That rules out Min.

Not entirely - channeling has both genetic and soul components. If Min had Ilyena's soul she'd have a channeler's soul, but she still wouldn't be able to channel if she didn't have a channeler's genes as well.

[Svevin]

 

Personally, I'm in favour of the Narg theory. The last person Lews Therin killed and the first (being) Rand killed. A tragedy indeed. 

 Glad I could clear this up for some of you 

[udbabor520]

My bet is on Perrin. To quote Wesley Snipes: Always bet on the blacksmith!

[damandred]

 

 

Could Illyena channel? IIRC, she could. That rules out Min.

Not entirely - channeling has both genetic and soul components. If Min had Ilyena's soul she'd have a channeler's soul, but she still wouldn't be able to channel if she didn't have a channeler's genes as well.

Any proof of that claim?

[Suttree]

Interview: Oct 2nd, 2005

Robert Jordan's Blog: ONE MORE TIME

Robert Jordan

For Papazen, while I have spoken of souls being born with the ability to channel in response to questions, I think of it as being genetic also. In the Age of Legends, between 2 and 3% of people had some ability, following a bell curve distribution in strength. For over 3000 years, though, Aes Sedai have been removing men who actually learned to channel from the gene pool. They have been very efficient at this. As a result, the "present day" sees about 1% of the population who can learn to channel, with a much, much smaller percentage of that being born with the spark.

 

Interview: Oct 27th, 2005

KOD Signing Report - Chris (Paraphrased)

Chris

There were a few questions about his series, one that I asked was: if channeling was genetic, did the Forsaken need bodies that were genetically compatible for them to be able to use the Power?

Robert Jordan

His answer was that channeling is not just a recessive or dominant gene, rather both genetic and in the soul.

[wotfan4472]

But these interviews still do not prove if Ilyena is actually reborn or not. We only know that souls are not split, but in very extreme cases actually combined thanks to Perrin and Slayer both. But the Ilyena question is whether or not Egwene was her. I say she is not.

[Sabio]

I haven't read anything to suggest Ilyena was anything more then a beautiful lady who both Dem and LTT liked and was killed by LTT.  Nothing has suggested she was anyone special as to warrant Egwene being her.

 

As for Egwene being Latra Pasae Decume, I can see that.  Only this time Egwene saying no wouldn't of mattered since Ny and Moriane were going to help Rand no matter what Egwene said.  Egwene stubbornness could of meant the seals not being broken and the nations not uniting.  But again her saying no to Rand was more of she thought she knew better then RAnd and in reality had no plan of her own.  I think she had the Aes Sedai arrogance of thinking they needed to be in charge and the idea of having to rely on Rand scared them.  Like LPD, Egwene had no plan on what to do but assumed she knew better then LTT/Rand.  Yes in the end LPD made the right choice but her decision was based on fear of LTT's plan and not on anything she had planned, sort of like Egwene.  I remember reading something about LPD like everyone else near the end of the war had the deer in the headlights thing going where they knew something needed to be done but everyone was too paralysed with fear to come up with anything.  LTT knew something bold needed to be done for the light to survive, both LTT and LPD saved the world.  LTT bought the world some time and LPD by refusing ended up ensuring the female half was safe.

[Orderofolde]

Who was or is Illeyna in the Wheel of Time has always been an intriguing mystery to me. The fact that we never found out was one of the frustrating omissions of the series. However, I now believe with a 100% certainty that Illeyna was Egwene. I believe that Rand and Egwene are bound to the Wheel together and that Egwene is always destined to die a tragic death. This time she died saving the world in the prior age she died as a result of the madness that overtook the male channelers. It was the madness that altered Rands age from previous ones. Without the madness Rand follows Egwene to the White Tower and they both become Aes SedaI and then marry, and fight together against the shadow. Because of the fracture in the Tower, the Dragon Reborn doesn't join the Aes Sedai, which is likely the first time in Ages that he doesn't join the Tower. Since the Black Tower and White Tower are two separate entities there is a good chance that in future ages Rand and Egwene never marry one another again, or at least in the short time they will not, and may remain opponents.

 

Aviendha, Min, and Elayne are red herrings in the same way that Perrin and Mat are red herrings.  The real story of the Wheel of Time is about Rand and Egwene  and Lews Therin Telamon and Illeyna.

In the Lord of Chaos or perhaps it was in the end of Fires of Heaven, there is a brief moment where Rand's/LTT's lamentations of Illyena is followed right by sad thoughts of Elayne's mom Morgase.  RJ originally planned to have Rand as an older man in his middle years who already was out in the world fighting and such who had returned home.  He was also supposed to be Morgase's lover according to RJ's notes.  

 

I just don't see Illyena as Min, Elayne, or Avi.  I can see pieces in each as if the soul was split, but that doesn't happen.  Illyena either isn't in play as she will be with the next LTT in the next Age of Legends, or she is someone else.  Morgase seems to be foreshadowed in Rand's POV when reflecting that Ravhin must have killed her.  RJ also had Morgase as Rand's lover in his original story plot.  Given that his whole thing is that everyone is reborn and lives their same lives over again....

[Sabio]

Morgase would make sense, Rand in TFOH at the beginning had an image in his mind of Illeyna suddenly appear and she was described as having hair the color of Elayne's.

[mb]

About Laetra, she actually did have a plan; the Chodan Kal.

 

About hair color; that can change in rebirths.

[udbabor520]

I just don't see Illyena as Min, Elayne, or Avi.  I can see pieces in each as if the soul was split, but that doesn't happen.

 

I totally agree.

[Orderofolde]

Morgase would make sense, Rand in TFOH at the beginning had an image in his mind of Illeyna suddenly appear and she was described as having hair the color of Elayne's.

The Andoran royal line has red-gold (ginger or auburn) hair (stemming from Aiel blood iirc), Illyena was sun-gold, probably super yellow-blonde.

[Ismail Elezi]

At the beginning, I thought that she was Elayne (because of the name, and how she was described). Then, I started thinking that she may be all three of Rand's wifes. Or maybe, she hasn't been reincarnated.

Egwene might be the queen who lead Menatheran during the Trolloc Wars. From the same place, died in exactly the same way.

[Sabio]

I agree with mr Ares there is really nothing to suggest Iiyena is anything special that she gets reborn as someone who does someone special.  Only a few souls like LTT are guaranteed they are going to get reborn one day a do special things. 

[Ismail Elezi]

I haven't read anything to suggest Ilyena was anything more then a beautiful lady who both Dem and LTT liked and was killed by LTT.  Nothing has suggested she was anyone special as to warrant Egwene being her.

 

As for Egwene being Latra Pasae Decume, I can see that.  Only this time Egwene saying no wouldn't of mattered since Ny and Moriane were going to help Rand no matter what Egwene said.  Egwene stubbornness could of meant the seals not being broken and the nations not uniting.  But again her saying no to Rand was more of she thought she knew better then RAnd and in reality had no plan of her own.  I think she had the Aes Sedai arrogance of thinking they needed to be in charge and the idea of having to rely on Rand scared them.  Like LPD, Egwene had no plan on what to do but assumed she knew better then LTT/Rand.  Yes in the end LPD made the right choice but her decision was based on fear of LTT's plan and not on anything she had planned, sort of like Egwene.  I remember reading something about LPD like everyone else near the end of the war had the deer in the headlights thing going where they knew something needed to be done but everyone was too paralysed with fear to come up with anything.  LTT knew something bold needed to be done for the light to survive, both LTT and LPD saved the world.  LTT bought the world some time and LPD by refusing ended up ensuring the female half was safe.

Illyena was definitely someone special. She had the third names, which was given only to extraordinary persons. Even Lanfear who was arguably the strongest female channeler of her time, didn't have a third name. Lews Therin, Demandred and Ishamael on the other side had it.

 

Egwene has some similarities with Latra, but not that much. In the end, Egwene helped Rand and actually motivated him when he was probably going to give up (after her death). Egwene and Rand left on good terms, like brother and sister. On the other hand, she has quite similarities with Queen Eldrene. Both of them were the most important/respected Aes Sedai of their time, both of them fight the Shadow, both of them had their Warder/Lover killed and finally both of them sacrificed themselves by channeling too much of the power, burning herself but also the enemy channelers.