[Advanced] Red Wedding Mafia - Post Game, MakersMark

[Nynaeve]

Yes Nyn, I take it personal. Lurking is a tactic I dislike and I don't want it associated with my playstyle.

 

Well boohoo. Get over it.

 

 

 

 

Nyn

[hazelkrs1]

I won't move my vote, Mish. I still find Red scummy and even if she ends up being town I don't feel like wasting an investigative shot on a Bodyguard which will probably be altered in one way or another.

 

Stop being obstinate bro. It doesn't have to be a wasted investigative view necessarily. There are plenty of ways stuff can be confirmed or supported. Red can also have more time to show how townie she is if she is town.

 

No matter how you slice it, a potential town PR is >>>> a VT in pretty much any game. Even ones with negative utility can sort of serve a purpose, if played correctly. Town can't afford to lynch it's own PR's early in a game without considering as many options as possible. The options today aren't good, it's Red or Mishtress. Both seem >>>rand to be town to me, but unfortunately we never got that Mynd CFD going. Had you helped with that, who knows what position town might be in right now.

[michellem]

Cloud, you are stepping awfully close to the buddying and looking for towncred-line.

[Nolder]

Nolder: I could have hammered Red now if all I was worried about was saving my own skin right now. I'm not. I want what's best for town. Your logic is severly flawed.

I don't understand how you can presume to argue my logic is flawed when you aren't acting on logic at all but on pure emotion.

There is a difference between being worried about "saving your skin" and throwing your life away needlessly to prove some point about your character.

You could have easily just waited until after the game and said "told ya so" to the people calling you a scummy lurker but instead you're screwing the town over to prove it right now. Thanks.

[michellem]

Almost all the players in the game has weighed in with discussion both on us and Red, so info-wise we are pretty much the same. That's logic. But, a vanilla is always a better lynch than a potential PR. That's also logic. There is no doubt either we or Red is going down. So in this scenario, the logical lynch is us. There's nothing emotional about that. It's about what is best for town. A bodyguard might be a weak protective role, but it's still a protective role. And I'm not going to let town sacrifice a potential PR just out of stubbornness.

[_CLOUD]

I would much rather lynch a likely mafioso than a VT.

[Songstress]

 

 

Nolder: I could have hammered Red now if all I was worried about was saving my own skin right now. I'm not. I want what's best for town. Your logic is severly flawed.

I don't understand how you can presume to argue my logic is flawed when you aren't acting on logic at all but on pure emotion.

There is a difference between being worried about "saving your skin" and throwing your life away needlessly to prove some point about your character.

You could have easily just waited until after the game and said "told ya so" to the people calling you a scummy lurker but instead you're screwing the town over to prove it right now. Thanks.

Screwing the town over?

 

 

We're a better lynch today than the claimed PR and town will get a lot of info from it. And remove the WIFOM about our character claim that you seem intent on pointing out could be one of the bad guys.

 

But you want to gripe about Mish self-voting as screwing town over.

[hazelkrs1]

Almost all the players in the game has weighed in with discussion both on us and Red, so info-wise we are pretty much the same. That's logic. But, a vanilla is always a better lynch than a potential PR. That's also logic. There is no doubt either we or Red is going down. So in this scenario, the logical lynch is us. There's nothing emotional about that. It's about what is best for town. A bodyguard might be a weak protective role, but it's still a protective role. And I'm not going to let town sacrifice a potential PR just out of stubbornness.

 

This. Nol trying to make Mish's self-vote look like an emo play is total BS. In this situation, all things being equal (as in I have town reads on both trains) I would choose to lynch the VT over the PR a thousand times out of a thousand, on day 1 at least.

 

It's the logical play.

[hazelkrs1]

Anyone sniffing a Nolder CFD?

 

[michellem]

We're not enough people, Des. And anyway, it would be really stupid to throw away both of the biggest D1 train for a super late new speed lynch.

 

 

Deadline in a little over two hours: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140426T1130&p0=904

[Nolder]

But, a vanilla is always a better lynch than a potential PR. That's also logic.

It's bad logic. You don't know if she's telling the truth.

 

 

 

Nolder: I could have hammered Red now if all I was worried about was saving my own skin right now. I'm not. I want what's best for town. Your logic is severly flawed.

I don't understand how you can presume to argue my logic is flawed when you aren't acting on logic at all but on pure emotion.

There is a difference between being worried about "saving your skin" and throwing your life away needlessly to prove some point about your character.

You could have easily just waited until after the game and said "told ya so" to the people calling you a scummy lurker but instead you're screwing the town over to prove it right now. Thanks.

Screwing the town over?

 

 

We're a better lynch today than the claimed PR and town will get a lot of info from it. And remove the WIFOM about our character claim that you seem intent on pointing out could be one of the bad guys.

 

But you want to gripe about Mish self-voting as screwing town over.

 

I was just thinking out loud about the character.

Don't be mad at me because your partner is trying to get you killed.

 

 

Almost all the players in the game has weighed in with discussion both on us and Red, so info-wise we are pretty much the same. That's logic. But, a vanilla is always a better lynch than a potential PR. That's also logic. There is no doubt either we or Red is going down. So in this scenario, the logical lynch is us. There's nothing emotional about that. It's about what is best for town. A bodyguard might be a weak protective role, but it's still a protective role. And I'm not going to let town sacrifice a potential PR just out of stubbornness.

 

This. Nol trying to make Mish's self-vote look like an emo play is total BS. In this situation, all things being equal (as in I have town reads on both trains) I would choose to lynch the VT over the PR a thousand times out of a thousand, on day 1 at least.

 

It's the logical play.

1. Also bad logic.

2. She's clearly not doing it for the faulty logic she's shoveling out now anyway. She's doing it because she's mad someone called her a lurker and she just has to clear her name right now rather than after the game.

[michellem]

Nol, I said POTENTIAL PR.

[Songstress]

Nol, Mish and I agree that we are a better lynch today than Red. You aren't inside either of our heads, so you can stop acting like you know what we're mad about.

[Nolder]

It's not like it's hard to figure out but ok.

[Nynaeve]

ANYWAYS...... why did you claim at L-5? 

 

 

 

Nyn

[Nynaeve]

@Tress

[Krakalakachkn]

CFD?

[Niniel]

I would rather lynch Red since I have a scum read on her. I´m not sure where I stand on Mistress but I´m leaning town. The most scummy about them was the first post by Mish, who then kind of handed it over to Tress. But since then I think they have looked town. Not that it has anything to do with alignment but I know that Mish is like me, when we are sick we can´t play very well and she (like I) would never lie about rl. 

 

A few thoughts other thoughts:

 

Without saying too much why (because I´m in a hurry) I´m suspicious of Nolder and Mynd. I don´t like Nolder´s play. I get what he is saying about games with many players. I tend to sign up for smaller games nowdays myself. But I don´t see how that has anything to do with his play. As Des/AJ said, first he follows their vote and then he argues with them. It´s also something about his game that is weird. I really can´t put a finger on it but it seems like he is playing another game than the rest of us. Ehm... I really can´t explain it better right now. 

 

I don´t like Mynd´s fencesitting on Red. I find it odd that Red would claim a town character while being another town character. If that was the case I think she would have waited with her reveal. I also don´t like the hydra hunt. 

[Niniel]

That should of course be AJ/Cory. 

[Songstress]

ANYWAYS...... why did you claim at L-5?

 

 

 

Nyn

Did you notice where right before I claimed I said I was still at work for several more hours and asked for an update on the VC and deadline? And some smartass lied to me, but that's beside the point....

 

I was busy with work and I couldn't remember how close we were to deadline, my phone was being a bitch and I was having a hard time getting to the last vote count. I thought I remembered us being at L-3 at some point, wasn't sure if deadline was before I left work, and the other major train had already claimed a PR.

 

Us claiming was inevitable, and since we're vanilla I wanted to make sure there was time to make an informed decision before deadline. It wasn't until later that I found out we had until today.

[WWWwombat]

One thing I'm really surprised about in the opposition to Red's lynch is everyone opposite seems to think she's town.

There's 5 teams of mafia that we know of, are the odds really in favor of her being town this game?

Think about it.

 

LOL WUT

 

 

One of the most important parts of "scumhunting" is having a solid town basing compiling of likely-townies and mechanically cleared townies guiding the direction and POEing potential Mafia. Towns that are scattered, have no focus and no solid foundation will always be taken advantage of.

 

If you do not control the game and the narrative, the Mafia will.

 

Live together or die alone.

 

QFT

 

 

One thing I'm really surprised about in the opposition to Red's lynch is everyone opposite seems to think she's town.

There's 5 teams of mafia that we know of, are the odds really in favor of her being town this game?

Think about it.

 

 

no, that is not whatt he OP says.  the OP says "This game is mafia versus town.  There are five mafia.  They have safe claims.  They win by outnumbering the town.  Town wins by eliminating all mafia.  There is no tomfoolery in this game."

 

it doesn't say 5 mafia teams, it says 5 Mafia.  ie: theres 5 peopel who are aligned with the mafia.  he also says theres no toomfoolery and that this is an advanced game not an experimental.  

 

FoS for this.

 

Yep.

 

 

 

 

 

#LOD

Or were you referring to this other game called QONQR? One of the factions is named Legion.

I'm pointing this out to Nol for his recent posts. Just wanted to remind him my original casing/vote of Red is the one he got behind.

 

Heh, I just got to that.

 

Who says hydras have to get all nitpicky?

lol mindmeld. I had a little moment myself as I was reading your WoT above.

You two already have a room, so use it.

 

 

I lol'd

 

 

I have been made aware that the intro is somewhat ambiguous as to whether this game has six factions, five of which are mafia and one which is town, or if it has two factions, one of which is a mafia with five members.

 

This game has a single five member mafia team.

 

Wasn't that ambiguous imo but thanks for the clarification.

[WWWwombat]

 

Nol trying to feign obliviousness is just one more thing to add to the pile on him. Blech.

Not sure whether you're being a dumbass or a jackass tonight.

I guess we'll split the difference and just settle on ass.

 

 

I lol'd

 

 

 

i'd also like to note that since people are 2nd guessing my train and Cory decided to actually start player, AJ has pulled a Mish and he's gone into lurkdom as well.  perhaps they saw what happened with Mishtress and decided to take a feather from their book and imitate the play as a way to give themselves an out off my lynch without getting suspicion?

 

Are you actually serious?

 

The reason you are being lynched is that you have 12 people in your Mafia circle and nobody but WombDes AFAIK in your town circle.

If you are a townie, you are a terrible townie and you deserve your lynch twenty-fold. Do better.

 

 

Red doesn't like town reads.

 

 

##Unvote

 

##Vote Mish/Tress

 

I don't agree that it's the logical way to go but you've definitely earned it by self voting.

 

Gross.

 

 

Lol Nol. Lamest excuse ever. Earned it by self voting? Please do elaborate.

 

He's scum.

 

 

 

##unvote

##vote Mistress

 

 

Listen, no matter how you look at it, we are the best lynch today. A vanilla is better to loose than a potential PR. If Red is mafia, you'll find out. There are guanrateed to be some investigative roles, wich none has brought up as an option for finding her out. Sooner or later someone will check her. Mostly everyone in the game has commented on Tress and me. Cloud, Des, Nol has all posted recently, you guys move over to Mistress and we'll be the leading train and even if it isn't majority, with Darthe's rules we'll be the lynch. It's the logical way to go.

I'm not going to move my vote to the most obvious townie in the entire game.

 

 

Gross.

 

 

There is no way that Mistress is mafia because they claimed VT while Red was being run up and now they are once more enforcing their claim by trying to ensure that they are the ones who get lynched today.

 

Double gross.

 

 

 

 

There is no way that Mistress is mafia because they claimed VT while Red was being run up and now they are once more enforcing their claim by trying to ensure that they are the ones who get lynched today.

 

Just 'cause they claimed VT during that time, in no way clears them at all. 

 

Enforcing their claim has good effects for them-it makes people hesitant to lynch since they might think that they should left alive for their magnanimity. Also refer my post above to why the claim could sow confusion.

 

 

It does because it wouldn't make sense for them to do that if they were scum and Red town, or if they were both scum. It's a suicidal claim that would at best get them through one more Day.

 

 

Actually, it makes plenty of sense if Red still gets lynched and then someone decides to clear them for it.

 

 

 

As I've already said, I'm not "rustled" about being today's lynch. In my experience when I've been run up D1 you spend too much time thereafter unproductively trying to recover. I think it's a bit rude to lynch the bride on her own wedding day, but as we're vanilla town it's no great loss, and all kinds of good info for tomorrow.

 

Which reminds me.... Tress revealed when they were on L-5 while Red was on L-2. Why? Where's the person that FOS'd Red for revealing at L-5?  LOL

 

 

 

 

Nyn

 

 

Yup.

 

 

And Nolderp is hiding behind meta again for his vote. What a total scumbag he is ITG.

 

 

Yep.

[WWWwombat]

 

Yes Nyn, I take it personal. Lurking is a tactic I dislike and I don't want it associated with my playstyle.

 

Well boohoo. Get over it.

 

 

 

 

Nyn

 

 

This, except not as mean.  Someone accusing you of lurking isn't an attack on your character, so stop treating it like one.

[Zanube]

I am really sorry that I only posted two times and I didn't post anything else as I was sick. I didn't catch up on all pages but this I would like to post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Having some annoying computer issues this morning - monitor on my desktop is old and dying, and wouldn't turn on at all this morning (at least hasn't in almost 3 hours of waiting for it)... Laptop hasn't been turned on in a couple of months and needed updates and now wants me to reboot like now if not sooner. Made some notes in our Hydra QT so I can reference them from whichever computer (or my phone) later on.

Copy/pasting quick hits on the happenings that have stood out to me ... <rest of quote snipped for brevity>

That crazy font....looks a lot like it came from a QT......

I wonder why.

 

Hydra....QTs....two girls/one cup player.  Got it. 

 

Now, please 'splain your other half's floundering. 

 

 

Lemme start here.

 

I'mma be Captain Obvoius and tell you I'm not inside Mish's head and we don't discuss everything we post in the QT before we say it.  However, I understand her as a player pretty well, and know a good amount about what her life is like and how it affects her playing. Here's the timeline and how I interpret it.

 

First post: She says she was about to complain about having to catch up on 12 pages but sees that everyone is still joking so she posts a joke pic herself.

 

Second post: About half an hour later - responds to Red's meme about complaining about catching up by noting that it's easier to catch up on 12 pages of jokes than serious play right before bedtime

 

Obviously she's had time to scan through the thread and see if there's any serious gameplay that stands out to her - next post is just a few minutes later.

 

Third post: Picks out something that stands out to her - X's intro post - and votes X.  This reads to me like an attempt to find something to start serious gameplay - I'mma go on a little sidetrack here about gamestarter actions, because I've done a lot of thinking about the subject.

 

My thought is that there are basically two methods people use to try to kickstart a game into serious mode.  First is doing something obvious - maybe slightly scummy or even overtly scummy - to draw attention to yourself (i.e. vote someone with no reasoning, claim vanilla town with no provocation, or even claim mafia out of the blue).  You get reactions, you probably get voted, you take note of reactions and probably find something worthwhile to build a train on in the process, and the game moves on.   I see a lot of this kind of action from Darthe, occasionally Wombat, and in this game's example, Yates.

 

Second gamestarter type is the Mountain -> Molehill type, where you nitpick all the fluff posts to find something, usually incredibly minor, as a reason to FOS, vote, or full-on case someone.  You watch for people bandwagoning or building on that case, you watch for people defending that person, and you probably end up abandoning that original case because it was truly nonsense in the first place, but by that point it's generated decent discussion.  Mynd and Red are pretty much masters of this... Mish's vote on X is a smaller example of such an attempt IMO, and didn't get a lot of traction because it was followed up pretty much right away by Mynd and Red using Mish's vote as a much more effective gamestarter.

 

Being on the receiving end of one of those mountain/molehill cases is frustrating as hell, if ya didn't know.  As I said, I've spent a lot of time contemplating kickstart behavior and it's pretty much gotten me to the point where I don't sweat it because I see where they're going with it, but Mynd and Red haven't played much in a good long time (and nobody else does it quite to their extent) and Mish tends to let her frustration bleed into the game more easily.

 

Which is obvious in her fourth post:  She comes in, makes 3 posts, and is suddenly being grilled about her choice of wording.  She tries to lay out the sequence of events.  She's tired and starting to get annoyed. 

 

Fifth post is nearly an hour and a half after she popped in saying she was getting ready to go to bed, and the frustration is obvious.  Sometimes all you can do is roll your eyes.  

 

Sixth post is now two hours after the first statement of her intention to catch up on the thread before she goes to bed, and she's ready to let it go and call it a night, but not before Mynd appears to suggest that she was somehow dishonest in her representation of her intentions to go to bed.   At this point in the QT, I mention how I'm amused that I've been posting and joking around the whole time without anyone saying a word, but she makes one post and suddenly she has Mynd and Red grilling her. She starts thinking that maybe people have forgotten that we share a slot, so she decides if people are still giving her a hard time when she gets up in the morning, she'll try to remind them.  I give her a little pep talk about the Red/Mynd game starter meta.

 

Next post after wake-up time: she's a bit disappointed at the amount of off-topic fluff that was continuing after a few solid game kickstarters.  Notes she's suspicious at Despo being off meta.  Explains to Wombat what she meant by her reason for the Xthrax vote.  Asks Cloud to outline exactly how she changed her story because it's a very vague accusation.  Decides that since people are still pressuring her for little to no reason and nobody seems to find me suspicious, it's time to remind them that we're both part of the same hydra.

 

After people clarify that they haven't said anything about me because I've been a slacker and haven't said anything game related yet, she reiterates her point and tries to let it drop.

 

Comes back with a serious response to several points Tommy made attempting to address his questions, including why she hadn't followed up on her original vote of Xthrax, why she expected people to take my play into account in judging our slot, her reads on Dawn, Mynd, Red, and expanding on her comment about Despo being off meta.

 

Last post in response to another Tommy question confirming her reads on Red and Mynd.

 

After this she advised me in the QT she was going to step away from the game because of an outside issue that put her in a bad mood and she didn't want to let it affect the game. There's this kind of spiral that happens when an emotional person lets emotion bleed into a game where people pounce on it and call it scummy, which just makes you more emotional.  Nobody needs that kind of thing to sidetrack the game. I'm guessing she's sleeping now and we'll probably hear from her again in a few hours.

 

My jumping in this morning with my list of reads wasn't timed and calculated as damage control.  As I said before, I'm not all that wound up about the possibility of being lynched today.  We win with town whether or not we live through day 1, and if our death helps in any way to solve the game, that's worth it.  My intent is to get my thoughts out there to help with the game solving bit, regardless.  If Mynd hadn't specifically asked for it, I wouldn't have spent any time at all defending the other half of my slot. 

 

I'd actually planned to post my thoughts with quotes and whatnot last night, well before people started calling me out as not contributing anything game related, but just got too exhausted to form coherent thoughts so I figured I'd get up early and do it today.  My computer monitor dying a slow painful death, plus my laptop requiring updates for my antivirus, Java, and Windows slowed me down to where I couldn't put in the time I intended so I threw a partial list of mostly gut impressions into the QT so I could reference it and update it later, then copy/pasted it here.

 

Now, it's going on midnight and if I was smart I'd be going to bed, but I promised I'd expand on my quick and dirty reads, so I'll do that a bit before I collapse.

I agree with this post. In Mish's second post Mynd was trying to jump start the game. Mafia tend to overexplain things from the slightest bit of pressure.In her next post,Mish started overexplaining things and from this Mynd put a little bit of more pressure. And then Mish started getting twitchy. I felt that then she was redirecting the pressure form her.This makes me suspicious again.

 

I will check on Red later. For now

 

##Vote Mishtress

[Leelou]

I'm still catching up from last night (almost done), so I'm kind of torn right now. I'd love for a CFD on Nol or Mynd. I still find Red's play sketch, so I'm happy staying here too. I don't really want to move over to Mish/Tress because they play has been coming off more town as they've been more involved.