[Advanced] French Revolution Mafia - Day 3

[Krakalakachkn]

Just because she flipped town doesn't mean her read was right.

 

 

The fact that you're acting as if one had to be true is interesting. Back-end justification?

[Hallia]

^ could've. coullld've.

[peacesells]

Aggggh, you scum suck and I'm drunk. bah..bah...did I say bah?  go town i think. 

[Graendals favourite]

Vote Alanna, just because of a possible excuse. My chicken is in the oven, and I have beers, and albums to listen to!

[Graendals favourite]

If you must know, Mark Knopfler's Privateering, Franz Ferdinand's You could have it so much better, Culture Beat album Serenity, and David Bowie's The Man who Sold the World.

 

edit: serenity is an album not a collection.

[Turin Turambar]

Okay, I was wrong. Thanks for your breakdown Lils, it made everything clear.

 

Vote GF.

How did that make it obvious to you that GF is the clear vote for the day? The hammer in that case is null IMO.

[Turin Turambar]

 

Official Vote Count:

 

 

Mish (7) - Alanna, Lily, Hallia, Peace, Mish, Ishy, GF

Lily (2) -  Pral, Krak

Ishy (1) - Turin

 

Not Voting (2): Thorum, Elf

 

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

 

That's a lynch!  Scene incoming.

 

FINAL VC: 

 

Odds are good that there was some scum on this train, right?

 

Alanna and Hally are thinking along the same lines I was, so I’m leaning town on them at the moment.

Peace = dead cop

Turin gives no reason

Ishy might be either on target or scum who knew

GF, who knows? But I’m glad she hammered and saved us from a random lynch.

 

Looking at these votes alone, for right now, I have to go with Turin

Look at the VC again. someone is not actually on the train. Oh that's me. to be fair I would have voted Mish to secure the lynch. 

 

And like Pral said Where is the big info from this lynch. Or at least the info that points to me as mafia.

 

after reading the votes and their sequence this is what I got:

 

Alanna starts the train. Her vote seems reasonable

 

lily followed rapidly by hallia make it 3-3. Lily would vote for self preservation. Hallia seems to be following along. riding coattails, buddying perhaps

 

This is where it gets interesting, Peace(now known as town cop) chooses to vote Mish over lily. I wonder if he would have had the trains not already been even? In addition he give a slightly more town lean to Lily. This could have sealed his fate last night if Lily is mafia. It gives a town read from a confirmed townie. That he turned out to be the cop is merely a bonus. I disagree with his reasoning about mafia lily not advocating the avoidance of a random. It is an easy way to look town especially if there is a possibility to lynch a townie. 

 

mish then self votes. I think it was a little early for this with the trains still fairly close.(it was 4-3 before Mish switched to herself) but with timezones I guess it is reasonable. 

 

I temporarily vote based partially on my read that the self vote is early. also interested to see if someone would come along and hammer right away. Ishy and GF who both would later vote Mish both come in but don't vote anyone at all. Ishy continues his IMO cantankerous mode of posting. It looks to me like he wants it known that Mish was town(he did have that weird post earlier about it) but refuses to advocate any other lynches.Sitting on the sidelines. I unvote to see what he says. His reply is "solid vote" which can be taken as sarcasm but also as ringing true under neath. He has had some similar posts during the game. 

 

Now back at L-2,Ishy votes for Mish despite all of his statements that she is town. So this is a vote purely for consolidation, or at least it is made to look that way.

 

GF comes back to hammer shortly thereafter. I find that to be null as in this situation it is in everyone's best self interest to avoid a random. That Mish ended up as town matters little.

 

 

 

 

So in summary, what I see out of the actual voters on the train at the time of the lynch is Hallia followed onto Mish at a time that evened up the trains possibly helping her teammate lily. and Ishy from his postings is trying to come across as oh so reluctantly voting mish. I think he protesteth too much.

 

Right now I would be willing to vote any of the three, but I think that Ishy is the key.

 

vote Ishy

[John E. Kelley]

Is it dark in that tunnel?

[LilyElizabeth]

 

Odds are good that there was some scum on this train, right?

 

Alanna and Hally are thinking along the same lines I was, so I’m leaning town on them at the moment.

Peace = dead cop

Turin gives no reason

Ishy might be either on target or scum who knew

GF, who knows? But I’m glad she hammered and saved us from a random lynch.

 

Looking at these votes alone, for right now, I have to go with Turin

 

Wasn't Mish supposed to be an "info lynch"? And, after all that, you still aren't sure of a lot of things. 

What info were you planning to gather from her alignment?

 

 

After the unholy trinity were modkilled, the action primarily centered on Mish and to a slightly lesser extent, me. So, I thought she would yield more info, than, say, you, as a lynch. This is what I got from her lynch as far as info. It isn't much, I admit, but it's something. 

[LilyElizabeth]

Turin, I had forgotten that you weren't on the train at the end. I like your points on Hallia. I shouldn't just dismiss her because she agreed with me. I should actually have seen that as suspicious. 

 

Unvote

Vote Hallia

[Turin Turambar]

Is it dark in that tunnel?

You obviously disagree about you. What do you think of Lily and Hallia?

[Turin Turambar]

This is near the end of day. ishy says he doesn't like either train. Now we know Mish flipped town but earkier he was voting Lily and I didn't see any posts from him to indicate why he no longer thought she was mafia when she was in fact pushing a vote on someone that Ishy was quite confident (although no solid reason was given) was town.

Both these trains stink.

 

This was before the reset and Ishy is quite clearly voting Lily.

Golden hasn't been on to see what I (we) saw, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. AJ and Lily though, have.

Vote Lily.

 

 

 

Can ishy be scum 6 games in a row?
Ishy...is your vote on Lily serious or your typical day 1 harem vote?

Quite serious.

 

 

So why the change and what do you think of Lily now?

[Alanna]

I'm reading through some older parts of the game right now, but currently I'm feeling Turin and Ishy are my biggest suspects. Will be back with more details in a short while.

[nervositee]

Wow. Abit more work than I thought to re-read this thread. I'm working my way through it now though.

I've kinda read both ends though, the beginning and the end, and if I were to throw my 2 cents out there, my gut says Turin is behaving scummy. This isn't a "case" nor do I have any list to back it up with, but it's a feeling ;) Especially his analysis after the lynch, and especially his evasive reply to the tunneling-accusation. 

 

But again, just a hunch, thought I'd throw it out there. Now, back to re-read >_<

[Alanna]

Skimmed from my last post to here.

 

Mish is Town. That is all. More to follow after I open my bottle.

 

This was after the supposed townslip, and after it was determined that it wasn't necessarily a townslip at all. But he said he was skimming, so he possibly he just missed that. 

 

Golden hasn't been on to see what I (we) saw, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. AJ and Lily though, have.

 

Vote Lily.

 

 

 

Ish- there is absolutely no way for you to be certain she's town, typical Ishy cockiness. Please explain your reasoning, though I'm sure you'll refuse with some "witty" retort. We've now spent 2 pages off on this tangent. Keep applying pressure here, we've hit scum.

Her response indicated that her role pm was identical to mine. There's my cockiness for you big guy. If you're still voting her, that means your pm is different. Wonder why that is. Scum.

 

 

He continues with insisting Mish must be town because of the role PM.

 

 

 

 

Ish- there is absolutely no way for you to be certain she's town, typical Ishy cockiness. Please explain your reasoning, though I'm sure you'll refuse with some "witty" retort. We've now spent 2 pages off on this tangent. Keep applying pressure here, we've hit scum.

Her response indicated that her role pm was identical to mine. There's my cockiness for you big guy. If you're still voting her, that means your pm is different. Wonder why that is. Scum.

I've already proven that to be a null tell ishy. The wiki article says everyone starts with 3.

I saw that too. Call it a decision to trust her then if it makes it better for you.

 

 

This is where it gets weird to me. They point out to him that the "townslip" is a null tell, but he sticks to his guns and is still quite certain Mish is town. 

 

Wtf is this nerd shit?

 

This was in reference to the OC discussion and has nothing to do with my case. But I've read it like 5 times now and giggled everytime. Just wanted to share :D

 

 

Skipping ahead to much later, after the reset. Ishy posted right after the reset to basically express his unhappiness about not getting alignment off the modkills. Then he doesn't posts again until the last minute basically, to say this:

 

Both these trains stink.

 

 

Where were you the rest of the day, then? You sit back and watch us scumhunting and then come in to say they're sucky trains? Maybe you should have come up with your own candidate, then?

 

 

I'm gonna say it, I agree with Mish on the AJ - Hallia thing, I read it as AJ was scum rather than anything on Hallia. I won't belabor it because AJ isn't here, but I think anyone voting Mish for that reason is wrong.

Mish is definitely Town. Anyone voting for her at this point is pushing an agenda.

 

 

Again, so convinced Mish is town. Because you're scum maybe, and know that she is? And wants to be able to say 'I told you so' when she flips town.

 

Okay, I was wrong. Thanks for your breakdown Lils, it made everything clear.

 

Vote GF.

 

I think someone already touched on this, but how does Lily's breakdown make everything clear in a way that points to a vote to GF? The only thing that can be concluded there is that GF hammered.

 

In conclusion: I find Ishy's insistence that Mish is town weird and suspect. What really gets me though, is lying low while others look for scum and debate back and forth, and then coming on at the last minute to complain about both trains before eventually voting Mish. Looks like scum to me.

 

Vote Ishy.

[Alanna]

FYI, I went back to read GE's posts surrounding the early Mish train before the reset and didn't really find it strange or suspicious. Ishy caught my eye more. I do think Turin's behavior right before the end of Day 1 was kind of odd. He came in and voted Mish and then - also at the last minute - unvoted to vote Ishy instead, who had no votes on him. He then makes this post:

 

 

 

I don't like that Ishy and GF both came in at about the 5 hour mark and failed to vote anyone. That is one of the reasons I voted Ishy. I doubt that he is viable at this time tho.

 

Is there anyone else out there with a vote so this doesn't go random? I have about 30 minutes before I need to sleep.

 

So he doesn't like Ishy and GF not voting so close to the deadline, but his vote is still on Ishy, which is about as worthless as no vote at this point. It's like he doesn't want to vote Mish himself for some reason? I don't get it.

 

Edited for about the third time to try and make this stupid quote work right. 

[LilyElizabeth]

Whatever happenned to Thorum? He was active in the beginning and then disappeared. 

[Turin Turambar]

Wow. Abit more work than I thought to re-read this thread. I'm working my way through it now though.

I've kinda read both ends though, the beginning and the end, and if I were to throw my 2 cents out there, my gut says Turin is behaving scummy. This isn't a "case" nor do I have any list to back it up with, but it's a feeling ;) Especially his analysis after the lynch, and especially his evasive reply to the tunneling-accusation. 

 

But again, just a hunch, thought I'd throw it out there. Now, back to re-read >_<

Excellent use of the "player X is scummy" line. What did you find scummy about me in the beginning?

 

What about my analysis leads you to think I am mafia?

 

How was I being evasive about Ishy claiming I am tunneling on him? He said it. I disagreed and asked what he thought about two other players I think could well be mafia based on my thoughts and from looking at how the vote went yesterday. The fact that I had already stated I was willing to vote any of the three but thought Ishy the best choice kinda disproves the entire tunneling argument.

 

He hasn't replied although he has posted in another game since I asked. Maybe the question should be why hasn't he responded to that query? 

 

But he has been mostly on the sidelines this game.  

[Turin Turambar]

 

FYI, I went back to read GE's posts surrounding the early Mish train before the reset and didn't really find it strange or suspicious. Ishy caught my eye more. I do think Turin's behavior right before the end of Day 1 was kind of odd. He came in and voted Mish and then - also at the last minute - unvoted to vote Ishy instead, who had no votes on him. He then makes this post:

 

 

 

 

I don't like that Ishy and GF both came in at about the 5 hour mark and failed to vote anyone. That is one of the reasons I voted Ishy. I doubt that he is viable at this time tho.

 

Is there anyone else out there with a vote so this doesn't go random? I have about 30 minutes before I need to sleep.

 

So he doesn't like Ishy and GF not voting so close to the deadline, but his vote is still on Ishy, which is about as worthless as no vote at this point. It's like he doesn't want to vote Mish himself for some reason? I don't get it.

 

Edited for about the third time to try and make this stupid quote work right. 

 

I voted Ishy because I found him likely mafia and if there had been sufficient people around would have advocated his lynch. i wanted to get myself "on record" as voting him. I stated already that I was willing to vote Mish to secure the lynch.  by the last time I checked back to see what was going on She was hammered. Ironically by the same two people that were available to hammer her when she was at L-1 previously.

 

Neither of them advocated another lynch candidate which indicates coasting.  To me that meant they were willing to let the Mish lynch go thru but did not seem to want to actually vote her. I found that quite odd myself.  Enough to vote the one that had pinged me the most during the rest of the day.

 

 

You apparently found some of the same things about Ishy to be pingy as you are agreeing with voting him.  

[dapianoplay3r]

Thorum has just PMed me and said he will not me returning

[nervositee]

First of all, Ishy, if you are indeed mafia, I feel for ya. 

 

 

Wow. Abit more work than I thought to re-read this thread. I'm working my way through it now though.

I've kinda read both ends though, the beginning and the end, and if I were to throw my 2 cents out there, my gut says Turin is behaving scummy. This isn't a "case" nor do I have any list to back it up with, but it's a feeling ;) Especially his analysis after the lynch, and especially his evasive reply to the tunneling-accusation. 

 

But again, just a hunch, thought I'd throw it out there. Now, back to re-read >_<

Excellent use of the "player X is scummy" line. What did you find scummy about me in the beginning?

 

What about my analysis leads you to think I am mafia?

 

How was I being evasive about Ishy claiming I am tunneling on him? He said it. I disagreed and asked what he thought about two other players I think could well be mafia based on my thoughts and from looking at how the vote went yesterday. The fact that I had already stated I was willing to vote any of the three but thought Ishy the best choice kinda disproves the entire tunneling argument.

 

He hasn't replied although he has posted in another game since I asked. Maybe the question should be why hasn't he responded to that query? 

 

But he has been mostly on the sidelines this game.  

 

 

I just claimed "that was my gut feeling, I don't have any specific, quotable reasons". So why are you asking for them? 

 

The evasive-comment stemmed from the fact that after your tunneling(?), and Ishys response you were very quick to say "move along, nothing to see here", and act very mellow towards your apparent no. 1 scum-suspicion. 

 

I'm also wondering:

 

"Now back at L-2,Ishy votes for Mish despite all of his statements that she is town. So this is a vote purely for consolidation, or at least it is made to look that way. 

 

GF comes back to hammer shortly thereafter. I find that to be null as in this situation it is in everyone's best self interest to avoid a random. That Mish ended up as town matters little."

 

So... Deadline is approaching, the activity level is dangerously low and its looking like it might go to random (even though you claim 3 hours is way too long before to self-vote?). Ishys vote (after Mish had self-voted and said "lynch me, better than nothing") is suspicious, but GF's hammer isn't, because then it's better than random? Seems like its either really dark in that tunnel, as Ishy said, or you are just trying a bit too hard distancing yourselves. 

 

 

 

 

FYI, I went back to read GE's posts surrounding the early Mish train before the reset and didn't really find it strange or suspicious. Ishy caught my eye more. I do think Turin's behavior right before the end of Day 1 was kind of odd. He came in and voted Mish and then - also at the last minute - unvoted to vote Ishy instead, who had no votes on him. He then makes this post:

 

 

 

 

I don't like that Ishy and GF both came in at about the 5 hour mark and failed to vote anyone. That is one of the reasons I voted Ishy. I doubt that he is viable at this time tho.

 

Is there anyone else out there with a vote so this doesn't go random? I have about 30 minutes before I need to sleep.

 

So he doesn't like Ishy and GF not voting so close to the deadline, but his vote is still on Ishy, which is about as worthless as no vote at this point. It's like he doesn't want to vote Mish himself for some reason? I don't get it.

 

Edited for about the third time to try and make this stupid quote work right. 

 

I voted Ishy because I found him likely mafia and if there had been sufficient people around would have advocated his lynch. i wanted to get myself "on record" as voting him. I stated already that I was willing to vote Mish to secure the lynch.  by the last time I checked back to see what was going on She was hammered. Ironically by the same two people that were available to hammer her when she was at L-1 previously.

 

Neither of them advocated another lynch candidate which indicates coasting.  To me that meant they were willing to let the Mish lynch go thru but did not seem to want to actually vote her. I found that quite odd myself.  Enough to vote the one that had pinged me the most during the rest of the day.

 

 

You apparently found some of the same things about Ishy to be pingy as you are agreeing with voting him.  

 

 

 

Yeah, you do, don't you?

 

Well, since they both had the opportunity to hammer, but previously didn't - doesn't that just tell that they didn't wish for the Mish-lynch, but felt pressured by time and the possibilty of a random, since as far as I've seen there wasn't any other realistic trains within the time-frame and activity level? Maybe, maybe not, but hardly a scum-tell. 

 

My read on Ishy is—again—either, or. Alanna's case is spot on. Classic sucking-up to a townie for good ol' fashion town cred. On the other hand, if he knew Mish was town, and he was mafia, won't the whole befriending-act (as cased by Alanna) be abit transparent and easy to pick up? Poor play from a good player. On the other (third?) hand, if he is scum AGAIN he'll probably be close to suicidal, so might be poor play to get out of his misery. Whisky in front of me?

[nervositee]

(PS: Again is from our last game and also from lurking in other games. Maybe as I build up a solid meta I can tell, but for now his cranky one-liners throw me way off;)

[Turin Turambar]

Vos, have you read the thread yet? Once you do you will understand my first question. The question about what you thought was scummy in the beginning. As to the why later? that was for you to think about while you read. You can get back to me on that.   

First of all, Ishy, if you are indeed mafia, I feel for ya. 

 

 

Wow. Abit more work than I thought to re-read this thread. I'm working my way through it now though.

I've kinda read both ends though, the beginning and the end, and if I were to throw my 2 cents out there, my gut says Turin is behaving scummy. This isn't a "case" nor do I have any list to back it up with, but it's a feeling ;) Especially his analysis after the lynch, and especially his evasive reply to the tunneling-accusation. 

 

But again, just a hunch, thought I'd throw it out there. Now, back to re-read >_<

Excellent use of the "player X is scummy" line. What did you find scummy about me in the beginning?

 

What about my analysis leads you to think I am mafia?

 

How was I being evasive about Ishy claiming I am tunneling on him? He said it. I disagreed and asked what he thought about two other players I think could well be mafia based on my thoughts and from looking at how the vote went yesterday. The fact that I had already stated I was willing to vote any of the three but thought Ishy the best choice kinda disproves the entire tunneling argument.

 

He hasn't replied although he has posted in another game since I asked. Maybe the question should be why hasn't he responded to that query? 

 

But he has been mostly on the sidelines this game.  

 

 

I just claimed "that was my gut feeling, I don't have any specific, quotable reasons". So why are you asking for them? 

 

The evasive-comment stemmed from the fact that after your tunneling(?), and Ishys response you were very quick to say "move along, nothing to see here", and act very mellow towards your apparent no. 1 scum-suspicion. 

 

I'm also wondering:

 

"Now back at L-2,Ishy votes for Mish despite all of his statements that she is town. So this is a vote purely for consolidation, or at least it is made to look that way. 

 

GF comes back to hammer shortly thereafter. I find that to be null as in this situation it is in everyone's best self interest to avoid a random. That Mish ended up as town matters little."

 

So... Deadline is approaching, the activity level is dangerously low and its looking like it might go to random (even though you claim 3 hours is way too long before to self-vote?). Ishys vote (after Mish had self-voted and said "lynch me, better than nothing") is suspicious, but GF's hammer isn't, because then it's better than random? Seems like its either really dark in that tunnel, as Ishy said, or you are just trying a bit too hard distancing yourselves. 

 

 

 

 

FYI, I went back to read GE's posts surrounding the early Mish train before the reset and didn't really find it strange or suspicious. Ishy caught my eye more. I do think Turin's behavior right before the end of Day 1 was kind of odd. He came in and voted Mish and then - also at the last minute - unvoted to vote Ishy instead, who had no votes on him. He then makes this post:

 

 

 

 

I don't like that Ishy and GF both came in at about the 5 hour mark and failed to vote anyone. That is one of the reasons I voted Ishy. I doubt that he is viable at this time tho.

 

Is there anyone else out there with a vote so this doesn't go random? I have about 30 minutes before I need to sleep.

 

So he doesn't like Ishy and GF not voting so close to the deadline, but his vote is still on Ishy, which is about as worthless as no vote at this point. It's like he doesn't want to vote Mish himself for some reason? I don't get it.

 

Edited for about the third time to try and make this stupid quote work right. 

 

I voted Ishy because I found him likely mafia and if there had been sufficient people around would have advocated his lynch. i wanted to get myself "on record" as voting him. I stated already that I was willing to vote Mish to secure the lynch.  by the last time I checked back to see what was going on She was hammered. Ironically by the same two people that were available to hammer her when she was at L-1 previously.

 

Neither of them advocated another lynch candidate which indicates coasting.  To me that meant they were willing to let the Mish lynch go thru but did not seem to want to actually vote her. I found that quite odd myself.  Enough to vote the one that had pinged me the most during the rest of the day.

 

 

You apparently found some of the same things about Ishy to be pingy as you are agreeing with voting him.  

 

 

 

Yeah, you do, don't you?

 

Well, since they both had the opportunity to hammer, but previously didn't - doesn't that just tell that they didn't wish for the Mish-lynch, but felt pressured by time and the possibilty of a random, since as far as I've seen there wasn't any other realistic trains within the time-frame and activity level? Maybe, maybe not, but hardly a scum-tell. 

 

My read on Ishy is—again—either, or. Alanna's case is spot on. Classic sucking-up to a townie for good ol' fashion town cred. On the other hand, if he knew Mish was town, and he was mafia, won't the whole befriending-act (as cased by Alanna) be abit transparent and easy to pick up? Poor play from a good player. On the other (third?) hand, if he is scum AGAIN he'll probably be close to suicidal, so might be poor play to get out of his misery. Whisky in front of me?

First nested Quote:

1.) As stated above. You are apparently reading up now so food for thought. 

2.) He issued the charge of tunneling. I don't see it that way. I provided other lynch options and I think I have made points on them as well. So I find the charge to be ludicrous.  I could have said "Nuh-uh, I'm not tunneling and then the convo would have shifted to tunneling and whatnot instead of why I think Ishy is mafia. I figured it would make more sense to show a little of his inconsistency(his flip on Lily from scum before the reset to a "stinky train" afterward) and that he has been sitting on the sidelines for most of the game IMO. 

3.) Mish's self vote came at >5 hours to deadline according to timestamps that I see. In fact GF stated it was 5 to go when he stated "he would check on things before voting". I found not only the timing but the fact that the trains were so close to be off putting. It read as AtE. I voted her to put her at L-1. the next two people came on and did not vote. Furthermore they did not even give any reads or thoughts or advocate for either train or a new train. 

Ishy could have easily said " both these trains stink. We should lynch ______ instead." 

GF could have said "I will look things over. At this time I would prefer to lynch Lily(or someone else)" then their reads would be on record at the time of the lynch. The more we have to hold each other to the easier it is to find the inconsistencies in our actions. They could have even decided to vote Lily instead tipping the vote to 5-4 with Mish as the extra vote on herself. That would have been interesting. Then there would have been discussion and reasons given instead of just the avoidance of random.  

 

If you were in at that point who would you have advocated at that time? I know it wouldn't have been Mish because you stated in the signup thread that you knew her alignment. Maybe that isn't a fair question. Answer it or not at your discretion. I won't hold it against you if you choose not to.

 

Nested quote 2:

1.) Yes. I like to vote people that I think are mafia. As I stated previously tho I was ready to revote Mish in order to prevent a random. It did not make much sense to move it back without another person willing to vote her tho. I was of the impression that Ishy and GF were not as they had the opportunity and passed. 

2.) Not wanting the Mish lynch is all well and good. But if that is the case they should have advocated someone else even if they didn't think they could get it thru. And I find Ishy the more likely to be mafia because he was the one that has demonstrated inconsistency with regards to Lily. 

3.) WIFOM it could be viewed as yes. I would expect Ishy is a good enough player that he thinks he can spin it as a null. Nice that you are giving him support in achieving that.

 

 

 

Please give all your reads when you have caught up. I am especially interested to hear your takes on Ishy, Hallia and Lily.

[keyholder21]

Official Vote Count:

 

GF (1) - Ishy

Hallia (2) - Pral, Lily

Alanna (1) - GF

Ishy (2) - Turin, Alanna

 

Not Voting (4) -Thorum, Vos, Hallia, Krak

 

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

 

Deadline: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?p0=70&iso=20140114T21

[nervositee]

Vos, have you read the thread yet? Once you do you will understand my first question. The question about what you thought was scummy in the beginning. As to the why later? that was for you to think about while you read. You can get back to me on that.   

 

I never claimed you were scummy in the beginning. I'm still at the place where you are Golden... so in my open window where I read from the start, you/your character is null. Again, never claimed you were scummy from the start. Either you misunderstood me or your trying to obsfuscate. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt

 

 

 

First of all, Ishy, if you are indeed mafia, I feel for ya. 

 

 

Wow. Abit more work than I thought to re-read this thread. I'm working my way through it now though.

I've kinda read both ends though, the beginning and the end, and if I were to throw my 2 cents out there, my gut says Turin is behaving scummy. This isn't a "case" nor do I have any list to back it up with, but it's a feeling ;) Especially his analysis after the lynch, and especially his evasive reply to the tunneling-accusation. 

 

But again, just a hunch, thought I'd throw it out there. Now, back to re-read >_<

Excellent use of the "player X is scummy" line. What did you find scummy about me in the beginning?

 

What about my analysis leads you to think I am mafia?

 

How was I being evasive about Ishy claiming I am tunneling on him? He said it. I disagreed and asked what he thought about two other players I think could well be mafia based on my thoughts and from looking at how the vote went yesterday. The fact that I had already stated I was willing to vote any of the three but thought Ishy the best choice kinda disproves the entire tunneling argument.

 

He hasn't replied although he has posted in another game since I asked. Maybe the question should be why hasn't he responded to that query? 

 

But he has been mostly on the sidelines this game.

 

 

I just claimed "that was my gut feeling, I don't have any specific, quotable reasons". So why are you asking for them? 

 

The evasive-comment stemmed from the fact that after your tunneling(?), and Ishys response you were very quick to say "move along, nothing to see here", and act very mellow towards your apparent no. 1 scum-suspicion. 

 

I'm also wondering:

 

"Now back at L-2,Ishy votes for Mish despite all of his statements that she is town. So this is a vote purely for consolidation, or at least it is made to look that way. 

 

GF comes back to hammer shortly thereafter. I find that to be null as in this situation it is in everyone's best self interest to avoid a random. That Mish ended up as town matters little."

 

So... Deadline is approaching, the activity level is dangerously low and its looking like it might go to random (even though you claim 3 hours is way too long before to self-vote?). Ishys vote (after Mish had self-voted and said "lynch me, better than nothing") is suspicious, but GF's hammer isn't, because then it's better than random? Seems like its either really dark in that tunnel, as Ishy said, or you are just trying a bit too hard distancing yourselves. 

 

 

 

FYI, I went back to read GE's posts surrounding the early Mish train before the reset and didn't really find it strange or suspicious. Ishy caught my eye more. I do think Turin's behavior right before the end of Day 1 was kind of odd. He came in and voted Mish and then - also at the last minute - unvoted to vote Ishy instead, who had no votes on him. He then makes this post:[/size]

 

 [/size]

 

 

I don't like that Ishy and GF both came in at about the 5 hour mark and failed to vote anyone. That is one of the reasons I voted Ishy. I doubt that he is viable at this time tho.[/size]

 

Is there anyone else out there with a vote so this doesn't go random? I have about 30 minutes before I need to sleep.

 

So he doesn't like Ishy and GF not voting so close to the deadline, but his vote is still on Ishy, which is about as worthless as no vote at this point. It's like he doesn't want to vote Mish himself for some reason? I don't get it.

 

Edited for about the third time to try and make this stupid quote work right. 

 

I voted Ishy because I found him likely mafia and if there had been sufficient people around would have advocated his lynch. i wanted to get myself "on record" as voting him. I stated already that I was willing to vote Mish to secure the lynch.  by the last time I checked back to see what was going on She was hammered. Ironically by the same two people that were available to hammer her when she was at L-1 previously.

 

Neither of them advocated another lynch candidate which indicates coasting.  To me that meant they were willing to let the Mish lynch go thru but did not seem to want to actually vote her. I found that quite odd myself.  Enough to vote the one that had pinged me the most during the rest of the day.

 

 

You apparently found some of the same things about Ishy to be pingy as you are agreeing with voting him.

 

 

 

Yeah, you do, don't you?

 

Well, since they both had the opportunity to hammer, but previously didn't - doesn't that just tell that they didn't wish for the Mish-lynch, but felt pressured by time and the possibilty of a random, since as far as I've seen there wasn't any other realistic trains within the time-frame and activity level? Maybe, maybe not, but hardly a scum-tell. 

 

My read on Ishy is—again—either, or. Alanna's case is spot on. Classic sucking-up to a townie for good ol' fashion town cred. On the other hand, if he knew Mish was town, and he was mafia, won't the whole befriending-act (as cased by Alanna) be abit transparent and easy to pick up? Poor play from a good player. On the other (third?) hand, if he is scum AGAIN he'll probably be close to suicidal, so might be poor play to get out of his misery. Whisky in front of me?

 

First nested Quote:

1.) As stated above. You are apparently reading up now so food for thought. 

 

See first answer

 

2.) He issued the charge of tunneling. I don't see it that way. I provided other lynch options and I think I have made points on them as well. So I find the charge to be ludicrous.  I could have said "Nuh-uh, I'm not tunneling and then the convo would have shifted to tunneling and whatnot instead of why I think Ishy is mafia. I figured it would make more sense to show a little of his inconsistency(his flip on Lily from scum before the reset to a "stinky train" afterward) and that he has been sitting on the sidelines for most of the game IMO. 

 

Still suspicious of how fast you let it go and moved forward, unwilling to start any form of conflict with your scum-suspect.

 

3.) Mish's self vote came at >5 hours to deadline according to timestamps that I see. In fact GF stated it was 5 to go when he stated "he would check on things before voting". I found not only the timing but the fact that the trains were so close to be off putting. It read as AtE. I voted her to put her at L-1. the next two people came on and did not vote. Furthermore they did not even give any reads or thoughts or advocate for either train or a new train. 

Ishy could have easily said " both these trains stink. We should lynch ______ instead." 

GF could have said "I will look things over. At this time I would prefer to lynch Lily(or someone else)" then their reads would be on record at the time of the lynch. The more we have to hold each other to the easier it is to find the inconsistencies in our actions. They could have even decided to vote Lily instead tipping the vote to 5-4 with Mish as the extra vote on herself. That would have been interesting. Then there would have been discussion and reasons given instead of just the avoidance of random.  

 

If you were in at that point who would you have advocated at that time? I know it wouldn't have been Mish because you stated in the signup thread that you knew her alignment. Maybe that isn't a fair question. Answer it or not at your discretion. I won't hold it against you if you choose not to.

 

At THAT point? If I were in the game I wouldn't have known her alignment, and would probably have joined the Mish-train in fear of a random lynch. At least we got some info out of it. But I'd joined the AJ-train long before, and still shocked so few did. 

 

Nested quote 2:

1.) Yes. I like to vote people that I think are mafia. As I stated previously tho I was ready to revote Mish in order to prevent a random. It did not make much sense to move it back without another person willing to vote her tho. I was of the impression that Ishy and GF were not as they had the opportunity and passed. 

 

That comment was just cheek based on my comment on you and Ishy distancing. Then you would def. want it "on record". But again, it was just cheek. Don't read too much into it. 

 

2.) Not wanting the Mish lynch is all well and good. But if that is the case they should have advocated someone else even if they didn't think they could get it thru. And I find Ishy the more likely to be mafia because he was the one that has demonstrated inconsistency with regards to Lily. 

 

But he demonstrated consistency with regards to Mish, and a general annoyance of the whole train (and game), which as I'm reading, I'm sympathetic of! 

 

3.) WIFOM it could be viewed as yes. I would expect Ishy is a good enough player that he thinks he can spin it as a null. Nice that you are giving him support in achieving that.

 

Nor are you helping clearing anything up, just adding smoke and mirrors, and framing Ishy in the process. Can't say if its scum-hunting, bussing or distancing though. 

 

Please give all your reads when you have caught up. I am especially interested to hear your takes on Ishy, Hallia and Lily.

 

Will do. Getting there. And tomorrow is sunday, so I'll have plenty of time to catch up. 

 

 

Answers in green