(BASIC): The Perfect Pizza Town wins

[hazelkrs1]

Ninjad again.

 

Rorschach, you GOTTA get out of that mentality that "Mafia would NEVER do something that obvious!" I've seen you say this many times, and its just a logical trap. Its called wifom. Some mafia like to "hide in plain sight", as in try and do something that looks so scummy they can later say "Oh I would NEVER be that obvious as scum!"

[berf]

Also Praya, keep in mind that sometimes mafia will be sure to tell you what to look out for, in the guise of helpful town or helpful neutral even. Because by offering advice it makes them DEFAULT town-mindset, right? Why else would they offer to help?

 

[hazelkrs1]

Starting audit now, bbl

[peacesells]

I love helpful "townees."

[hazelkrs1]

Also Praya, keep in mind that sometimes mafia will be sure to tell you what to look out for, in the guise of helpful town or helpful neutral even. Because by offering advice it makes them DEFAULT town-mindset, right? Why else would they offer to help?

 

 

Tbh it is good advice, even tho that was prob a poke at me

 

[Pralaya]

Ninjad again.

 

Rorschach, you GOTTA get out of that mentality that "Mafia would NEVER do something that obvious!" I've seen you say this many times, and its just a logical trap. Its called wifom. Some mafia like to "hide in plain sight", as in try and do something that looks so scummy they can later say "Oh I would NEVER be that obvious as scum!"

 

Sure, I understand that. But, at the same time, I would also like to look at the risk vs reward. Trying to hide in plain sight when something brings attention to you seems contradictory. Especially in this case when it is still Day 1. The converse holds true too. I believe that we cannot always use the wifom argument. 

[Darthe]

Meh, I don't much care which way it goes at the moment.

 

unvote vote WBK

[Songstress]

I'm gonna trim this because it seems like people are missing my point:
 

This right here:
 

(( snipped Berf's summary of events up to that point, surrounding his case on Despo ))

Mish randoms and votes Tiinker. Hallie backs it up.
 
Both soft.
 
((snipped more about why he believes Despo is scum))
 
Desp scum, Tress scum, eyes on Mish and Hall. 
 
 
By the way, the only two people who DIDN'T post before the Triggers were all met were Krak and Mish. Kronos even left Mish off his initial read-list too. 
 
That is all.

 
I have to point out that this was before his complete 180 deciding that Mish had to be mafia because of her responses to the trigger thing.
 
At this point, he was working off the theory that because Mish and Krak did not check in during N0 before the triggers were met, that they were not assigned a mafia or town power role, and had to be vanilla town.  I was actually contemplating the same possibility for scumhunting, but did not think it was prudent to throw it out in the open.  
 
But yet immediately before he put that out in the thread for everyone to think about, he made a point of FOS'ing Mish and Hallia for their votes on Tink.
 
You're keeping your eyes on someone that you in the very next sentence point out that you believe to be vanilla town?
 
Ping.  Major ping.  Logic fail, Berf.
 
Mish made a very good point about the case on Despo feeling forced, and suddenly Berf backs off of his Despo case, says "my bad, I was off my game yesterday" and is 100% convinced his theory about the triggers is wrong because now Mish MUST be mafia?
 
I don't buy it, big boy.
 
Vote Berf

 

Neither Berf himself, nor Darthe in his attempt to explain exactly how townie Berf was in every single post of his, has yet bothered to address the fact that this was not Berf changing his mind about Mish after she reacted to his suggestion about the trigger theory. This was at the same time as he proposed the trigger theory. One can change one's mind about someone or discard a theory without being scum, but it takes a certain amount of "I don't care about the truth" to both propose a theory that implicitly means someone is vanilla town AND FOS them for what you see as a scummy vote IN THE SAME POST.  That just smacks of... well... making crap up.

Berf is still my number one pick for mafia, "genuine emo" and Darthe's interpretation of his extreme townieness notwithstanding.
 

Re: Kaylee - I partly see what you're saying, but honestly I think Kaylee is pretty easy to spot as scum. Her town and scum meta is pretty drastically different. As scum she lurks and bandwagons a lot and apologizes for inactivity, as town she starts off pretty impartial about everything but slowly builds up steam. She hasn't been that vocal this game, but she never usually is as town in the early going, and has still at least posted more. I think she tries to lay low as either town or scum because she's a fairly good endgame player, that's where she shines normally. At first I didn't like that survivalist mentality, but as I've seen her endgame plays more and more it seems more reasonable to me.

 

I get what you're saying, Des, but here's the thing about Kaylee. I live with her. I've been here for EVERY SINGLE mafia game she's played. What you're saying about her scum meta actually pisses her off that people think that way because she very much tries to play the same way as town and as mafia, and what comes across as lurking and apologizing for inactivity is something that is not related to her alignment whatsoever - it's due to being a single working mother with a one-year-old daughter, trying to plan a wedding. The bandwagoning bit I can see, but it's hard to say whether she's doing that here.

And this is the other thing about her meta that you may not know, but she and I have talked about extensively. Every game where she is mafia that I've played in, she has avoided taking a position on me even when I've had a decent train on me. This right here:
 

As for not saying anything about you, Tress, I wanted to see if you'd ask the typical "what about me?". You tend to want me to comment on your play when town. I think you stated how you honestly felt about Des. I felt it was genuine. I have the same feelings as meta go. However, knowing that only adds WIFOM because the player knows their meta. I'm leaning town on you atm.

 
The issue is not that when I'm town I like for Kaylee to comment on my play. The issue is that when she's mafia, she avoids it. She knows I know this about her. Saying she was waiting for me to bring it up to test if I was town comes across as trying to spin it to create reasonable doubt.
 
And in all the comments that she's made since, she never did take a position on whether she thinks Berf is mafia.

 

Berf and Kaylee are my top two, and I'd not be a bit surprised if they were teammates.

 

Contrary to a lot of people, I'm getting a town vibe from Mish.  I've seen her as frustrated town before, and it comes across a lot like she did here with the triggers thing.  I have never seen her pull off that kind of righteous indignation as mafia.  If she managed to fool me with it, I'm thoroughly impressed.

 

My early meta-related town vibe from Despo, coupled with the fact that I still strongly believe Berf to be mafia, still has me leaning town on him.  It's an unpopular view, I know.  Mostly gut instinct.  My gut has been spectacularly wrong in the past, but more often than not, it leads me in the right direction eventually and I regret not following up on it when it comes down to the wire.  (Sigh @ Yates...)  It's not down to the wire yet, thankfully.

 

As for Kronos, as I was trying to catch up my notes I was noticing that he'd been very much absent.  I don't know if this is gameplay or IRL, I'm afraid this may be one of those situations where he's thinking about requesting a replacement because of real life "stuff".  This means nothing about his alignment, I've seen it happen with both town and scum. I wish there was more to go from on him, because what little there is does come across as suspect.  

 

I'm willing to vote him if necessary to achieve a lynch.

[Darthe]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the land of "trust me, because I know how these people react to my play".

[Kaylee]

Tress: I haven't commented on Berf because I am not sure tbh. I'm leaning towards scum lately due to more recent posts.

 

Vote Berf

 

I don't like to just throw votes around and was trying to get a better read on people before voting again. I'm also curious as to where Kronos has gone and his lack of posting.

 

Tress: I didn't say much else on you because there wasn't much else to comment on at the time. I said what I felt. Choose to believe it or not.

[Songstress]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the land of "trust me, because I know how these people react to my play".

 

I'm not trying to convince anyone else to vote her because of that, dear.

[berf]

I'd like to know how my recent posts are what pushed Kay over the line to vote me, personally. The earlier ones I can understand and can cop. But ok.

 

 

 

I also just noticed something on my way back to check out my Mish FOS as is being discussed. Check it:

 

Mish says

 

No mafia would never do anything that comes with a risk of being called out *for/of it.

 

Hallie responds directly saying "That's true look at Yates" or something to that effect. Immediately after.

 

And then later on, when I use this same line in my case against her, I get told it's "Sarcastic".

 

And yet no response when Hallie agreed. So why only defend it when I come calling?

 

 

 

Also this is confusing

 

 

The game started 4.30 my time at night, and the triggers ended at around noon, wich is the time I get up (I have sleep troubles).

 

I'm really not sure what you are trying to say here? That you couldn't possibly have hit a trigger? So you were agreeing with me at the time?

 

 

 

 

Anyway, my "mis-timed"  Mish FOS:

 

 

Desp scum, Tress scum, eyes on Mish and Hall. 

 

 

 

By the way, the only two people who DIDN'T post before the Triggers were all met were Krak and Mish. Kronos even left Mish off his initial read-list too. 

 

That is all.

 

I am showing a bit of conflicted opinion here, I understand that.

 

But, I never went into bat screaming that Mish was town. I had a theory that might have put her there, and was willing to consider it. But in the end, her behavior, and a lack of any real concrete findings led me to scrap said theory anyway. I never once said it is 100% accurate and correct. I don't think I ever said I'm leaning toward believing it.

 

In simpler terms; My FoS on Mish came before the Theory, and the Theory was never my shining light to finding Truth regardless.

 

 

 

 

Available for questions in about 3 hours or so after football training

 

 

 

 

 

[hazelkrs1]

 

Ninjad again.

 

Rorschach, you GOTTA get out of that mentality that "Mafia would NEVER do something that obvious!" I've seen you say this many times, and its just a logical trap. Its called wifom. Some mafia like to "hide in plain sight", as in try and do something that looks so scummy they can later say "Oh I would NEVER be that obvious as scum!"

 

Sure, I understand that. But, at the same time, I would also like to look at the risk vs reward. Trying to hide in plain sight when something brings attention to you seems contradictory. Especially in this case when it is still Day 1. The converse holds true too. I believe that we cannot always use the wifom argument.

 

 

Dude, that's the whole point of the strategy. The phrase "hiding in plain sight" is contradictory itself, it's an oxymoron. It relies on trying to draw attention, and hoping people think "man, that play wouldn't make sense as scum." And that kind of strategy would be better employed earlier in a game rather than later btw, for obvious reasons.

 

As for wifom, dude, it's mafia. You can't avoid it. It lurks around every corner, hides behind every argument.

 

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the land of "trust me, because I know how these people react to my play".

 

 

Dude, your arrogance is showing again. Also, lol @ saying "Trust me" in mafia. And btw, I've said this before, and I'll say it again: I think you and Dap rely too much on meta. When you're right you're right, but oh man, when you're wrong you are WRONG.

 

[hazelkrs1]

I'd like to know how my recent posts are what pushed Kay over the line to vote me, personally. The earlier ones I can understand and can cop. But ok.

 

 

 

I also just noticed something on my way back to check out my Mish FOS as is being discussed. Check it:

 

Mish says

 

No mafia would never do anything that comes with a risk of being called out *for/of it.

 

Hallie responds directly saying "That's true look at Yates" or something to that effect. Immediately after.

 

And then later on, when I use this same line in my case against her, I get told it's "Sarcastic".

 

And yet no response when Hallie agreed. So why only defend it when I come calling?

 

 

Hallia was agreeing with the sarcastic sentiment, because of what Yates had just pulled in a previous game. Hallia wasn't agreeing with you, she was seeing Mish's point about how "Mafia would NEVER" statements are silly.

 

Speaking of Hallia she needs to get her rear in gear too. I'd be up for policy lynching her as well, for pretty much never contributing to gameplay.

[Basel Gill]

Posted Yesterday, 09:35 PM

Vote count:

Berf (4): Kronos, Mish, Tress, Kaylee
Mish (2): Berf, Krak
Kronos (5): Tiink, Peace, Pralaya, Des, Darthe
Tiink (1): Hally
Des (1): Cindy

Not voting (0)

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is Tues. Jul. 23rd at 9 PM EST.

 

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130723T21&p0=422

[berf]

Am here. Good Morning Europe. 

 

...Good evening Vietnam?

 

 

And well I obviously didn't know that about the other game You could see how one would be paranoid however.

[berf]

14 hours.

[michellem]

I'd like to know how my recent posts are what pushed Kay over the line to vote me, personally. The earlier ones I can understand and can cop. But ok.

 

 

 

I also just noticed something on my way back to check out my Mish FOS as is being discussed. Check it:

 

Mish says

 

No mafia would never do anything that comes with a risk of being called out *for/of it.

 

Hallie responds directly saying "That's true look at Yates" or something to that effect. Immediately after.

 

And then later on, when I use this same line in my case against her, I get told it's "Sarcastic".

 

And yet no response when Hallie agreed. So why only defend it when I come calling?

 

 

Well Des already covered this, but yeah. Hallia was agreeing with my sarcasm; Yates isn't one to stayout of the limelight when he's mafia.

 

 

Also this is confusing

 

 

The game started 4.30 my time at night, and the triggers ended at around noon, wich is the time I get up (I have sleep troubles).

 

I'm really not sure what you are trying to say here? That you couldn't possibly have hit a trigger? So you were agreeing with me at the time?

 

 

WIFOM, my dear. Like I said, I reacted to you bringing it up in the first place, and decided to wifom the whole sitation as much as possible, while at the same time giving you some heat to see if you responded as mafia or townie. Still don't feel like your responses is very townie.

 

 

Anyway, my "mis-timed"  Mish FOS:

 

 

Desp scum, Tress scum, eyes on Mish and Hall. 

 

 

 

By the way, the only two people who DIDN'T post before the Triggers were all met were Krak and Mish. Kronos even left Mish off his initial read-list too. 

 

That is all.

 

I am showing a bit of conflicted opinion here, I understand that.

 

But, I never went into bat screaming that Mish was town. I had a theory that might have put her there, and was willing to consider it. But in the end, her behavior, and a lack of any real concrete findings led me to scrap said theory anyway. I never once said it is 100% accurate and correct. I don't think I ever said I'm leaning toward believing it.

 

In simpler terms; My FoS on Mish came before the Theory, and the Theory was never my shining light to finding Truth regardless.

 

 

 

 

Available for questions in about 3 hours or so after football training

[Hallia]

You're right about that, Dess.  Also, I'm surprised wolfie hasn't popped in to defend himself.  It's unlike him to not even chime in when he's getting run up.  Come out wuffeh!

 

Unvote

[Kaylee]

Couldn't find the quote I was looking for and am running out of time before I have to leave.

 

Berf: it was where you had basically tried to discredit everyone on your train. That coupled with the thing with Mish. The case against you, reiterated by Tress above, made me feel a bit more confident in voting for you so I did.

 

I should be around a bit later to change my vote if needed.  

[Darthe]

So when do we kill WBK?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

yeah, ok.

 

it's not worth a random

 

unvote vote kronos

[Krakalakachkn]

unvote, vote WBK

[Krakalakachkn]

And that's a hammer.

[peacesells]

And that's a hammer.

Proud?