Post-aMoL Speculation & Discussion (Full Spoilers)

[Suttree]

Rand was not burned out. This has already been expanded. Severing can be healed, being burned out cannot - not in this lifetime or any other. If Rand (or more importantly his soul) has lost the ability to channel forever, the world is screwed at the next turning.

 

Curious as to why you think being burned out makes you lose the soul trait of channeling? We've never had that confirmed or even hinted at IIRC.

[Suttree]

 

 

 

Tweet from the official WoT Facebook page saying Harriet confirmed no outriggers.

harriet is a dirty word. at least lucas had the stones to let other authors continue to expand his world.. she's only hurting the fans.

I think it works much better by leaving it up to the readers' imaginations. Jordan himself said that he would leave a lot of questions unanswered because of this.

Indeed. Not only that but we know RJ was against any shAred world scenario. It would be other people writing stories with no source material in his world. That is quite simply a terrible idea and we've seen how it works out in other places. Star Wars?!?! *Shudder*

[MountaineerWV]

 

Burn out can be healed, the sisters holding rand captive in LOC where burnout from the backfire of the broken seald. When Setalle put Joline's adam on and takes a few steps with her starts to feel Joline's pain, the same as Siuan feels Moghedien but can do nothing with her. So if Setalle(Burn out) is the same with Siuan(stilled) and the red sisters healed from Damer Flin, burn out can be healed!

 

You may be correct. I swear that I read a transcribed interview where RJ cleared this up. I went to my WoT bookmark links and can't seem to find that particular website. Maybe someone knows the website I'm talking about?

[MountaineerWV]

 

Curious as to why you think being burned out makes you lose the soul trait of channeling? We've never had that confirmed or even hinted at IIRC.

 

Whoops, missed this one. Like I said above, I thought I remembered reading about this. Maybe I'm just imaging things though...

[Suttree]

 

 

I just finished reading through the first time. I'll admit I was reading pretty fast and probably missed some stuff, but here are my thoughts.

 

Rand was not burned out. This has already been expanded. Severing can be healed, being burned out cannot - not in this lifetime or any other. If Rand (or more importantly his soul) has lost the ability to channel forever, the world is screwed at the next turning.

 

I don't know Rand's future...but I can't see him as the type of guy not being present for the birth and childhood of his children. So he has about 3 months to split wood for a hay loft before his and Elayne's children are born.

 

The Aiel are done, they are over. Here's the thing...whether they go from Peace keepers, to those that bring peace, to 'Dai'shain Aiel' OR get exterminated by the Seanchan, the Aiel as we know it are finished. One path is more palatable than the other though.

 

The mechanisms that will end damane have begun turning. The moment that Tuon agreed to allow damane that want to be free to move to Randland and also allow her people to go to Randland nations and try to convince girls to submit to being damane, the genie was let out of the bottle. Freedom and liberty are contagious and will quickly spread through the Empire.

 

On Rand's life span. I don't if I buy this or not, but I think it has some evidence. Rand has a normal non-channeller's life span now. In Avi's vision of the future, Rand won. If he won, his soul was transfered to Moridin's body. If he lived a normal channeller's lifespan, Rand would be alive and still quite young when the war is grinding to an end between the Seanchan and Aiel - with the Aiel loosing. There is no way that Rand would stand aside and let this magnitude of slavery and genocide occur. So he must have had a normal life span and passed away long before that point.

Burn out can be healed, the sisters holding rand captive in LOC where burnout from the backfire of the broken seald. When Setalle put Joline's adam on and takes a few steps with her starts to feel Joline's pain, the same as Siuan feels Moghedien but can do nothing with her. So if Setalle(Burn out) is the same with Siuan(stilled) and the red sisters healed from Damer Flin, burn out can be healed!

This is not correct. We know they are different and that certainly is not what happened with Setalle. She was not able to sense anyting through the a'dam like Siuan could. Someone who is stilled can still sense the source and you only need to "reconnect" the cut connection. To someone who is burned out the source is simply gone and you can not sense it. Healing it would be like trying to heal a missing hand. Regardless there is nothing to say it carries over to furture life times.

[gregweum]

This is not correct. We know they are different and that certainly is not what happened with Setalle. She was not able to sense anyting through the a'dam like Siuan could. Someone who is stilled can still sense the source and you only need to "reconnect" the cut connection. To someone who is burned out the source is simply gone and you can not sense it. Healing it would be like trying to heal a missing hand. Regardless there is nothing to say it carries over to furture life times.

 

In fairness, healing stilling was supposed to be impossible, and we never saw one of the uber-healers try to heal anyone that was burned-out.  I'm not saying your assessment is incorrect, just that it's not 100% certain from the evidence available.

[Suttree]

Oh I agree it not 100%. If you piece together all the info it seems to be the most logical conclusion. Again in one the connection is cut and you can still sense the source. In the other the connection is simply gone(and we know what that means for healing limbs and the like). You can not sense it, you can not feel anything through the a'dam. It is likely why Setalle was able to make such a thorough recovery. The source was not there teasing her just out of reach.

[Beer Rot]

 

 

Burn out can be healed, the sisters holding rand captive in LOC where burnout from the backfire of the broken seald. When Setalle put Joline's adam on and takes a few steps with her starts to feel Joline's pain, the same as Siuan feels Moghedien but can do nothing with her. So if Setalle(Burn out) is the same with Siuan(stilled) and the red sisters healed from Damer Flin, burn out can be healed!

 

You may be correct. I swear that I read a transcribed interview where RJ cleared this up. I went to my WoT bookmark links and can't seem to find that particular website. Maybe someone knows the website I'm talking about?

 

Rand severed them, read the scene again.. to paraphrase he "crushed them with weaves of spirit".  And even after, it was confirmed when someone specifically said "He stilled them."

[Beer Rot]

 

 

 

 

Tweet from the official WoT Facebook page saying Harriet confirmed no outriggers.

harriet is a dirty word. at least lucas had the stones to let other authors continue to expand his world.. she's only hurting the fans.

I think it works much better by leaving it up to the readers' imaginations. Jordan himself said that he would leave a lot of questions unanswered because of this.

Indeed. Not only that but we know RJ was against any shAred world scenario. It would be other people writing stories with no source material in his world. That is quite simply a terrible idea and we've seen how it works out in other places. Star Wars?!?! *Shudder*

Yes because the absolute success of the Star Wars literary universe just goes to show you how awful of an idea that is.

[MountaineerWV]

I found this over in the theoryland interview data base.

MARIA SIMONS (VIA LUCKERS)

Yes, you would. Jim said that “neither burning out or stilling affects that except in this lifetime, your current lifetime.” (DragonCon), but transmigration is not really a different lifetime; more than just the soul moves. The new person (I’m at a loss for words here) also has the memories of the previous person, and its personality, and such. So Brandon is correct.

I was wrong. Stilling nor burning out affects a rebirth, but does seem to affect a transmigration. No real comments on healing one that is burned out. I agree with Sut in that one cannot heal a hand that's been cut off...but nothing is impossible.

[Suttree]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tweet from the official WoT Facebook page saying Harriet confirmed no outriggers.

harriet is a dirty word. at least lucas had the stones to let other authors continue to expand his world.. she's only hurting the fans.

I think it works much better by leaving it up to the readers' imaginations. Jordan himself said that he would leave a lot of questions unanswered because of this.

Indeed. Not only that but we know RJ was against any shAred world scenario. It would be other people writing stories with no source material in his world. That is quite simply a terrible idea and we've seen how it works out in other places. Star Wars?!?! *Shudder*

Yes because the absolute success of the Star Wars literary universe just goes to show you how awful of an idea that is.

Stephenie Meyer is succesful as well. That certainly doesn't mean it is well done. The quality of writing in the Star Wars universe is for the most part atrocious. Not to mention the most important part is RJ's wishes on the matter. Extremely selfish for anyone to go against that and it would be terrible for the overall WoT legacy.

[MountaineerWV]

Stephenie Meyer is succesful as well. That certainly doesn't mean it is well done. The quality of writing in the Star Wars universe is for the most part atrocious. Not to mention the most important part is RJ's wishes on the matter. Extremely selfish for anyone to go against that and it would be terrible for the overall WoT legacy. 

True, we should respect RJ's wishes. My fear is that as time passes, with no new books/stories coming out, future readers will overlook tWoT. It will be forgotten. Star Wars, DragonLance, Forgotten Realms all have new material, and while much of it is terrible, here has been some good additions.

[2RiversFan]

Oh I agree it not 100%. If you piece together all the info it seems to be the most logical conclusion. Again in one the connection is cut and you can still sense the source. In the other the connection is simply gone(and we know what that means for healing limbs and the like). You can not sense it, you can not feel anything through the a'dam. It is likely why Setalle was able to make such a thorough recovery. The source was not there teasing her just out of reach.

 

The Setalle Anan story - and the possibilities her character presented was one of my biggest wishes for aMoL.  I wanted her to be 'Healed' of her burnout, then get in close with Tuon again and show her that 'murathdomane' are good people too - not animals.  I also thought she had more possibilities with ter'angreal identification and uses.  Something more than just simply doing things that weren't in the forefront of the last battle would have been nice.  The way her story ended makes me consider her superfluous to the series as a whole. 

 

With the ending as it is (and trying to find the silver lining), at least I'll be able to muse that she is eventually Healed by Flinn or another Ashaman Healer and will be able to have a very productive life.

[Atheose]

 

Stephenie Meyer is succesful as well. That certainly doesn't mean it is well done. The quality of writing in the Star Wars universe is for the most part atrocious. Not to mention the most important part is RJ's wishes on the matter. Extremely selfish for anyone to go against that and it would be terrible for the overall WoT legacy. 

True, we should respect RJ's wishes. My fear is that as time passes, with no new books/stories coming out, future readers will overlook tWoT. It will be forgotten. Star Wars, DragonLance, Forgotten Realms all have new material, and while much of it is terrible, here has been some good additions.

I don't think it will go that way. Lord of the Rings is still immensely popular despite being 60+ years old. And Harry Potter will still be read by new generations decades from now.

[Kudlak]

My big question ... Do you think that all characters who died in Last Battle etc .Will these characters be  reborn again and end together again ??? ??

[sleepinghour]

A few things I like to imagine happening that touch on multiple posts in this thread: I think Birgitte is reborn as one of Melaine's children. They constantly mentioned how close to term she is whereas Elayne is months away from pregnancy.

 

I had the same thought since it was mentioned no less than three times how close Melaine was to giving birth. In LoC, Melaine promised to name her twins after Egwene and Min, so if one of them receives Birgitte's soul, it would be a little confusing. Still, Birgitte would do well as a Maiden, and I also like the idea of Egwene being reborn as...Egwene. Sorilea did always want Egwene to return to them.

[Ashaman Andr3w]

I have some thoughts concerning Thom Merrilin and I wasn't sure where it best fitted in the AMoL discussion forums...

 

It concerns the chapter toward the end of the book where Thom is outside on Thakandar waiting for Rand, Moiraine and Nynaeve, and starts reflecting about all that happened and how best to describe it.

 

Did anyone else find some of the writing in this sequence as Sanderson paying homage or respect or something else to Jordan? I really wish I had my copy of the book but I have leant it to a friend having finished myself. But I remember at the time the chapter sticking out as a nod to Jordan. Even in its simplest form that Thom Merrilon wasn't satisfied simply to describe the tale as epic...he needed a better word.

 

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this section as it was amongst my favourites.

[Ashaman Andr3w]

I have some thoughts concerning Thom Merrilin and I wasn't sure where it best fitted in the AMoL discussion forums...

 

It concerns the chapter toward the end of the book where Thom is outside on Thakandar waiting for Rand, Moiraine and Nynaeve, and starts reflecting about all that happened and how best to describe it.

 

Did anyone else find some of the writing in this sequence as Sanderson paying homage or respect or something else to Jordan? I really wish I had my copy of the book but I have leant it to a friend having finished myself. But I remember at the time the chapter sticking out as a nod to Jordan. Even in its simplest form that Thom Merrilon wasn't satisfied simply to describe the tale as epic...he needed a better word.

 

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this section as it was amongst my favourites.

[Atheose]

I have some thoughts concerning Thom Merrilin and I wasn't sure where it best fitted in the AMoL discussion forums... It concerns the chapter toward the end of the book where Thom is outside on Thakandar waiting for Rand, Moiraine and Nynaeve, and starts reflecting about all that happened and how best to describe it. Did anyone else find some of the writing in this sequence as Sanderson paying homage or respect or something else to Jordan? I really wish I had my copy of the book but I have leant it to a friend having finished myself. But I remember at the time the chapter sticking out as a nod to Jordan. Even in its simplest form that Thom Merrilon wasn't satisfied simply to describe the tale as epic...he needed a better word. I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this section as it was amongst my favourites.

It was definitely a nod to Jordan/Sanderson, or authors in general.

[tsoxt]

 

 

 

Burn out can be healed, the sisters holding rand captive in LOC where burnout from the backfire of the broken seald. When Setalle put Joline's adam on and takes a few steps with her starts to feel Joline's pain, the same as Siuan feels Moghedien but can do nothing with her. So if Setalle(Burn out) is the same with Siuan(stilled) and the red sisters healed from Damer Flin, burn out can be healed!

 

You may be correct. I swear that I read a transcribed interview where RJ cleared this up. I went to my WoT bookmark links and can't seem to find that particular website. Maybe someone knows the website I'm talking about?

 

 

 

Rand severed them, read the scene again.. to paraphrase he "crushed them with weaves of spirit".  And even after, it was confirmed when someone specifically said "He stilled them."

Sorry youre absolutly right about the guards at dumai wells i havent done a good reread to jordan era books for 3 years and i didnt remember rands words after the escape.

As for the stilled sensing the source the only statment is in nyanyve's POV in LOC prologue when she gave moghedien's adam to Siuan. In Siuan's POV in SR ch 47 she states it right out i think.

“Siuan, Leane. Just Siuan.” Despite herself she tried to embrace saidar. There was nothing there. Not for her. Only the emptiness inside. Never again. A lifetime of purpose, and now she was rudderless, adrift on a sea far darker than this cell.

[MountaineerWV]

I have some thoughts concerning Thom Merrilin and I wasn't sure where it best fitted in the AMoL discussion forums... It concerns the chapter toward the end of the book where Thom is outside on Thakandar waiting for Rand, Moiraine and Nynaeve, and starts reflecting about all that happened and how best to describe it. Did anyone else find some of the writing in this sequence as Sanderson paying homage or respect or something else to Jordan? I really wish I had my copy of the book but I have leant it to a friend having finished myself. But I remember at the time the chapter sticking out as a nod to Jordan. Even in its simplest form that Thom Merrilon wasn't satisfied simply to describe the tale as epic...he needed a better word. I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this section as it was amongst my favourites.

I liked it...but I thought this was another bit of fan service. The 'Thom is a DF' has been around for a LONG time. When he threw that knife at Cads, I thought to myself 'You've GOT to be kidding me!'. haha.

[Ashaman Andr3w]

I have some thoughts concerning Thom Merrilin and I wasn't sure where it best fitted in the AMoL discussion forums... It concerns the chapter toward the end of the book where Thom is outside on Thakandar waiting for Rand, Moiraine and Nynaeve, and starts reflecting about all that happened and how best to describe it. Did anyone else find some of the writing in this sequence as Sanderson paying homage or respect or something else to Jordan? I really wish I had my copy of the book but I have leant it to a friend having finished myself. But I remember at the time the chapter sticking out as a nod to Jordan. Even in its simplest form that Thom Merrilon wasn't satisfied simply to describe the tale as epic...he needed a better word. I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this section as it was amongst my favourites.

I liked it...but I thought this was another bit of fan service. The 'Thom is a DF' has been around for a LONG time. When he threw that knife at Cads, I thought to myself 'You've GOT to be kidding me!'. haha.

 

Haha, yes a lot of not so subtle nods to the fans throughout the book. Feel the Thom Cadsuane bit was handled ok, discreetly enough...but bits like Rand dismissing Roedran as Demandred seemed far too forced and almost took the illusion of me being part of this big finale away??

 

 

[wintermute]

I wonder if Rand can resist using his new reality warping powers. I mean, what if he runs into trouble on the road, or couldn't find a place to sleep, etc, it would be easy enough for him to conjure up a warm cozy inn or something. I'll bet he'll be able to travel using T'A'R style shifting too. He basically has god-like powers but he has chosen to go slumming for a while.

 

I hope he'll find some time to sneak off to the Two Rivers and let Tam know he's alive and happy. It seems cruel to let Tam continue thinking him dead - isn't it odd that during Rand's "funeral", Tam is the only one showing grief? The girls have an excuse, I guess, since they know from the bond that Rand is alive, but even Perrin is very matter of fact about the whole thing and Mat can't even be bothered to stick around for the funeral. Do Perrin and Mat know something? Or are they (like Rand) just happy that their ta'veren obligation is done?

[Agitel]

I wonder if Rand can resist using his new reality warping powers. I mean, what if he runs into trouble on the road, or couldn't find a place to sleep, etc, it would be easy enough for him to conjure up a warm cozy inn or something. I'll bet he'll be able to travel using T'A'R style shifting too. He basically has god-like powers but he has chosen to go slumming for a while. I hope he'll find some time to sneak off to the Two Rivers and let Tam know he's alive and happy. 

 

I'm sure Bao the Wyld will be able to figure something out. He's been through a lot.

[TNine]

Did anybody else think that the Mistress of the Kitchens at the WT, Laras was either a darkfriend or a Forsaken in disguise?

 

A few things I can remember her doing:

1/ Helping Suain and Leane escape post stiling - spreading chaos?

 

2/ Trying to get close to Elmindreda "Min" - saying she did this because she 'reminded her of herself'. Min pointedly wonders how such a large ordinary woman sees any of herself in Elmindreda (Who was designed by Suain to be a disguise with nothing in common with Min). Maybe one of the Forsaken. Everyone always comments on how she's so light on her feet for a large woman. People also make this observation about the fat merchant woman Lanfear impersonates in the waste.

 

3/ When Egwene is succeeding in undermining Elaida with her passive resistane, the Shadow decides she's becoming too competent/dangerous. Shortly after this Lara's offers to help her escape her imprisonment through a tunnel in a storage room in the kitchen. I remember being very scared for Egwene that if she got into that box she'd never get out

 

4/ She was present in aMoL at the supply area directly before Faile ended up in the blight. I think Faile, a non-channeler thought the Aes Sedai who died managed to weave a gateway, but possibly it was just Laras. There was no other female channeler there to see the weaves or their origin.

 

I can remember thinking this at other times, but these were the examples that most come to mind.

 

I believe this to be true. The main fact that contradicts this is that Verin dismisses out of hand that Laras is a darkfriend, and that doesn't seem like the kind of thing that Verin would miss.