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Post-aMoL Speculation & Discussion (Full Spoilers)


Luckers

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It was only rumored that Gitara told Luc to go to the Blight. It's entirely possible that someone from the Shadow did the deed instead, making Gitara the convenient explanation.

We know she spent more time with Luc and Tigraine then she did with the Queen. There is no reason to doubt it and it fits perfectly with Tigraine and everything that needed to happen at the time.

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Regarding Mat's luck:  I don't think that was him being ta'averen *or* his being attached to the knife.

 

Something else happened at the tower, between books 2 and 3.  Specifically, the theft of some ter'angreal.  Now, the missing items were supposedly all taken by Liandrin's group...  but the "six spotted dice" one, which suspends chance, was never found or mentioned again.  My theory is (and has been) that not all of the items left the tower with the group of 13; some stayed in the tower, or had actually been stolen before they raided the storerooms.  Someone, most likely Verin, had the six spotted dice while Mat was at the Tower, and used them in a heretofore unknown way to permanently grant the "luck-warping" powers.

 

Regarding Caalandor:  I assumed that Rand, as a channeler of the TP via his link with Moridin, could sense it the same way he could sense Saidin angreals.

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So what exactly was Slayer's key role in helping Rand succeed? He was formed from Isam and Luc. Luc went to the Blight because of Gitaro's advice. If he hadn't gone, there wouldn't have been a Slayer (presumably, or it would have been just Isam), but I don't see how it would have had any affect on the Light's victory. He kills wolves, battles Perrin a few times, and eventually gets killed, but I don't recall any major "if Slayer wasn't involved, then character X wouldn't have done Y, and the Shadow could have won". Tigraine would have gone to the Aiel Waste anyway and wound up giving birth to Rand. So why was he sent to the Blight?

Maybe it's because Slayer pushed Perrin, and helped Perrin get to the point where he could kill Lanfear/Cyndane at the end

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I need to do another re-read because I did skim through as fast as I could, but wondering if someone could answer these questions (I probably missed something):

 

1) How did Rand figure out that Callandor was a TP sa'angreal?

 

 

At some point many books ago it was mentioned about how one of Callandor's flaws was that it amplified the taint.

Between LTT's memories and the archive terangreal, they learned a bit more about the True Power. Probably they put two and two together.

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Regarding Mat's luck:  I don't think that was him being ta'averen *or* his being attached to the knife.

 

Something else happened at the tower, between books 2 and 3.  Specifically, the theft of some ter'angreal.  Now, the missing items were supposedly all taken by Liandrin's group...  but the "six spotted dice" one, which suspends chance, was never found or mentioned again.  My theory is (and has been) that not all of the items left the tower with the group of 13; some stayed in the tower, or had actually been stolen before they raided the storerooms.  Someone, most likely Verin, had the six spotted dice while Mat was at the Tower, and used them in a heretofore unknown way to permanently grant the "luck-warping" powers.

 

Regarding Caalandor:  I assumed that Rand, as a channeler of the TP via his link with Moridin, could sense it the same way he could sense Saidin angreals.

Mat's luck is ta'veren. No question about it in my mind.

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Post-AMoL predictions:

 

  • Elayne attempts to collect child support from deadbeat dad Rand al'Thor, until she realizes that calculating 30% of his paycheck from "splitting wood so he can sleep in some guy's barn" is a waste of time for even her clerks, and joins a dating website for gainfully employed people
  • Lan lets Nynaeve retain her "command in public" position in their marriage, but begins to conduct a lot of business with Arafel and Shienar in private, if you know what I mean
  • Galad and Mat are each further wounded in a duel that begins when Mat claims his disfigurements are sexier than Galad's, and Galad's honor cannot let such a lie stand
  • Mat also finds Seanchan culture less invigorating after the first four thousand assassination attempts, sends the Deathwatch Guard to find Rand and ask him how to fake death and get a new body
  • The "something odd" about Aviendha's four babies turns out to be that two of them are star-bellied babies, and two of them have no stars upon thars
  • Perrin takes Faile's joke that the Last Battle "should have been a dance-off" seriously, begins earnestly training in lindyhop, also continues doing everything else earnestly, at all times
  • Tam, believing himself all but alone in the universe, sinks into a deep despair; but when he learns that his son is actually alive and has become a wandering hobo who hangs out in inns, playing the flute in exchange for hot meals, he hunts Rand down for what he calls "one epic punch in the face"
  • Rand, to pacify his father and Elayne, gets a "real job" as a performer at Valan Luca's travelling show pulling coins out of people's ears and making surprisingly accurate guesses of people's height and weight
  • Basel Gill opens a whole chain of businesses in rebuilt Caemlyn:  a strip club called "The Queen's Undressing", a coffee shop called "The Queen's French Pressing" and a children's clothing shop, "The Queen's Regressing"

Those are my best guesses.

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"I will break you myself," Fortuona said softly. "Someday, your people will turn you over to me. You will forget yourself, and your arrogance will lead you to our borders. I will be waiting."

"I plan to live centuries," Egwene hissed. "I will watch your empire crumble, Fortuona. I will watch it with joy."

 

>Tuon frowned. The explosions reflected in her dark eyes. "I'm with child," she said. "The Doomseer has confirmed it."

 

Post-AMoL crack theory: Egwene will be reborn as Mat and Tuon's child.

 

this just made my day

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Moghedien being collared seemed like a final conclusion, to me. The same way as the Shaido taking that darkfriend into the Waste (her name slips my mind). It implies that the Seanchan will not be giving up their damane any time soon... At least not until Moghedien is dead. Which might come soon, come to think of it. Didn't Moghedien have a soul trap? I vaguely remember reading that damane don't get to keep jewelry.

I do wonder what Hawkwing and Fortuona talked about.

So the voice Rand hears at Tarwin's Gap in book 1 was the Creator. When he heard the voice before entering Shayol Ghul, it said he'd heard the voice before. Then later on when he's fully inside, he says the Dark One only just became aware of him.

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By the way, speaking of the body swap, was that really a good idea of Rand's?      He now is walking around looking like the big cheese of the Dark One's side.  And even if that isn't the case, he's walking around with a body moridin got from the Dark One.  Who knows who the hell he was.  At best, he could bump into and surprise the shit out of a lot of people who thought he was dead.  At worse, that guy could have been a murderer or a Darkfriend.

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I'm been big on the deal Rand would cut with the Seanchan paralleling the deal the US and UK cut with the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany, but the post-TG state of the world also strongly suggests pre-Civil War USA. The Seanchan hold channelers as slaves, and that is anathema to the rest of Randland. Channelers from outside Seanchan territory will travel there and be captured, and their people will want them back. Damane will escape and the non-Seanchan will be loathe to return them. So much of the Seanchan' system relied on its uniformity and the lack of any visible alternative. Now the Seanchan will be able to hear of and presumably travel to lands where channelers walk free. The Seanchan's best brainwashing efforts aside, damane will still occasionally flee. They will learn of the outside world and take note. Women (and men) who suspect they may be able to channel will flee to non-Seanchan lands. I think this is more dangerous to the Seanchan system that the knowledge that sul'dam can learn to channel. It's also probably the best possible solution. The good guys never would have won without the Seanchan, and the Seanchan would never have immediately given up their system (nor could they have). But now there is a possibility of a peaceful solution, a gradual emancipation, rather than resolution by war (although that is still likely) (Min's newfound position will help as well).

 

 

i'm thinking of it more like the deal that created the American Republic and put off the civil war for almost a century.  Yeah, it makes your skin crawl, but better to live and be able to fight that battle another day rather than see the world destroyed while you fight your battle.  And here's my crank post aMoL theory:

 

Artur Hawkwing is born a few centuries later and manages to become the Abraham Lincoln (i.e. freeing the Seanchan damane).

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Anyone else think that Brigette may be reborn as one of Elayne's babies? That would certainly be poetic justice.

 

Yes - I almost thought that was obvious.   There Elayne is, about to pop, and Birgette says "someone out there is with child and almost read to give birth, so I must prepare myself" (not exact quote).  Totally agree with you!!

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Anyone else think that Brigette may be reborn as one of Elayne's babies? That would certainly be poetic justice.

 

Yes - I almost thought that was obvious.   There Elayne is, about to pop, and Birgette says "someone out there is with child and almost read to give birth, so I must prepare myself" (not exact quote).  Totally agree with you!!

No... Birgitte's new mom was actually in labor when she said that to Elayne. There would have been no big hurry for Birgitte to leave if she had another three months to sit around and incubate.

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It seems to me that out of all the different ways Rand could have dealt with the Dark One he chose the only method that could eventually see the Dark One being freed when the Second Age comes again.

 

Also considering how the Bore is there because it was "the thinnest area of the pattern." that statement would make a lot of sense if the only thing covering it is the weaves that Rand wove.

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Okay, aside from Rand now argueably being a "deadbeat" for his kids ;-) what are the implications of him walking around in somebody else's body.  And not just Moridin's body.  Moridin got it from the dark one, who got it from Light knows where.  For all we know, Rand could be walking around wearing the face of a kiddie diddler.  And suppose he runs into somebody who knew Moridin's flesh suit from before.

 

Whacky aMoL theory: Rand quickly turns around, sneaks another quickie with Avi, and his quintuplets are actually two sets of twins (two from his old self, two from his new self).

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It's not like Elayne needs him to support her children, but ya, it's nice to have Dad around. Avi doesn't need help either, probably Min doesn't either since she's now one of the most powerful people in the Empire.

 

So, it's nice to have a Dad around, but otherwise these kids won't exactly be lacking in financial support.

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Guest elanorh

Well, a deadbeat Dad = more than a financial thing.  It's nice to have two parents involved actively in raising children (yes it takes a village but anyone who's grown up with a missing parent will say that they wish they had known that parent).  And I don't think Rand would want to be an absent parent. 

I finished a couple days ago and have been thinking and processing and rereading since:

1. Tam knows that the body on the pyre is not Rand.  Page 904 - just look at the words used.  "Rand could finally rest."  "Tam looked at the corpse, gazing down into his son's face by the fire's light."  I think he knows.  In fact, I think that more than just Min/Avi/Elayne/Alivia (and Cadsuane) know the truth or will know soon.  I would posit that Mat and Perrin will know soon as well.  These are people after all upon whom Rand relied, and who were his friends - who kept his secrets and would keep this secret as well.  And who would find more peace in knowing that Rand is able to live free of DR and just as himself now.  I wouldn't be surprised if, as she thinks about it, Nyneave figures it out as well.  I'd think her delvings would have been 'off' enough that she might start rethinking what she was seeing as she looked at Rand's body and Moridin's body. 

2.  The theory I find most compelling for Nakomi is that she is Verin, visiting Avi in ToM shortly after her death via TAR and then again as the Aiel woman at the beginning of the Epilogue that Rand sees.  Bair recognizes the name Nakomi as an "ancient name."  Couldn't it be that Verin is a Hero of the Horn, spun out as the Third Age ended - she is the sort who would have ignored the ban on speaking to people from the present day in TAR, after all she went ahead and studied the Black Ajah from the inside?  Birgitte mentions several names she's held, some of which are forgotten.  The same could be true of Nakomi? 

3.  I seem to recall that Birgitte has said to Elayne that she is seldom born to nobility (never?) - while the HotH are spun out repeatedly into different nations/situations some elements of their character remain true.  So it wouldn't make sense for her to be reborn as Elayne's daughter.  Also - Gaidal is absolutely Olver. 

4.  The unfinished Seanchan/damane arc:  This is something I really wanted resolved (I was yelling at the book and egging Egwene and Tuon on while they discussed the issue); it was the thing which most concerned me as the books wound down (we knew Rand would win after all and I would not have been surprised to have Perrin or Mat die, perhaps because of too much time spent reading GRRM :wink: ).... I was upset that this wasn't resolved and I still don't think that it's resolved.  Sure, Artur Hawkwing might've swayed Tuon when they spoke off-screen (although Mat didn't tell Artur to bring it up).  Sure, Min and Mat might soften her up over time.  Sure, she might be swayed by what Egwene did in the battle itself.  BUT - Shanan the sul'dam feels confident scooping Moggy up after the LB - "they said we could not take any who called themselves Aes Sedai, but..."  Of course an agreement hadn't been really reached between Tuon and Egwene on the issue (simply discussed).  And, later, Tuon told Mat that the agreement she signed with Rand was "just paper," making clear that as Empress she is not bound by any agreement, ever.  That's a really difficult mindset to break through, and even if Tuon changes her mind and halts collaring - would her successors do the same?  The collars exist and are in use.  In fact, I suspect that the male collars are in some Seanchan's hands as well.  And it would be very easy for the Seanchan to interpret the fact that their army emerged the least damaged by the battles as "We won the LB, we are the conquerors and in the right," which would certainly encourage continuing to collar. 

If that agreement which Egwene proposed is agreed to, it *could* lead to an eventual decline and abandonment of collaring, as Osan'gar's Razor and Argedden discuss, with it falling into disuse during the Peace (which should last for some time).  And it could also be that some version of Aviendha's vision will come to pass, instead.  "The wheel weaves as the wheel wills."  And given a few days to think about it, I'm surprised to find myself thinking that even if RJ had never intended outriggers to cover this topic - I'm still OK with it not being resolved.  The "what will happen?" discussions on this topic alone really fit with the underlying philosophy of WoT.  Much as it still bugs me, and much as I'd actually be happy to hear definitively that it won't happen.  :wink:

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More speculation on what is than what could be, but i was thinking about Egwene's role as the "female dragon", and i realized that Egwene is, as far as i remember, the only other character in the series to have multiple people who love her and she loves. It starts with Rand/Egwene, and then Galad/Egwene, and then Gawyn/Egwene. I wonder if this is somewhat of a mirroring of the fact that Egwene is, indeed, the Light's champion in some rotations of the wheel, destined to have the three lovers (although Rand would actually not be a lover since they have the clean break). I'm probably just reading too far into it, but interesting nonetheless.

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The whole callandor thing is bothering me. while it was freaking awesome, it doesn't make sense to me. How could people create a sa'angreal that worked with the TP without the creator of said sa'angreal having knowledge of the workings of the TP? 

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Here's a somewhat bizarre theory......

 

Nakomi was the woman that met Rand as he carried Moridin out of the Pit of Doom.

 

I think everyone assumes it's Alivia, but Rand describes the woman as old, gray hair, wearing Aiel garb, and having a voice he did not recognize.

 

In ToM, Aviendha describes Nakomi as having graying hair, wearing normal Aiel clothing.

 

I think Rand would recognize Alivia's voice, and Alivia is described as having yellow hair with threads of white running through it.

 

How did the body swap come about?  Wouldn't it take someone of fairly supreme power to be able to do that?  Maybe like, the Creator?

 

Perhaps Nakomi was the Creator made flesh?  Odd things happened at Aviendha's meal (coal on the fire appearing out of nowhere, the meal being the most delicious she'd ever had, etc etc.)

 

Nakomi pushes Aviendha to see things a little differently regarding the Waste vs. the "wetlands" and also, I think, is the seed planted that lets Aviendha realize that the Aiel cannot be left out of the Dragon's Peace -- they must continue serving the Dragon to survive.  In a sense, this was the first step in saving the Aiel from obliteration, as seen in the Pillars.

 

Aviendha askes Nakomi which sept is here, and Nakomi responses, "I am far from my roof, yet not far at all.  Perhaps IT is far from ME.  I cannot answer your question, apprentice, for it is not my place to give this truth."

 

And when she leaves, she says, "If you'll excuse me, I need to see to nature."  A simple explanation is going to the bathroom.... but "see to nature".....  Suggestive, no?

 

Anyway, I know this is a wacky theory..... 

 

Thoughts??

I like your theory.  The stuff that happened with Aviendha at the fire couldn't have been channeling or Aviendha would have felt the weaves.

 

I also would have liked to have more detail on the body swap, and how Alivia 'helped him die.'  Rand got to keep his eyes, we know cause earlier Moridin was described as having tons of saa, but then Rand only had one at the end.  I'm glad becuase I thought life without his hand was kind of lame for a guy who is willing to die for the world. 

 

I think it didn't make sense that he couldn't channel either.  Both he and moridin could channel, so it stands to reason that he would be burned our or not, but not how it was described, like he had never been able to channel at all. Is channeling part of the physical body, or is it attached to the soul? Cuase Rand and LTT could both channel. Now that Rand can weave the pattern, or whatever it is that he did with the pipe, maybe that just kind of took the place of channeling, and channeling is really just a small part of what Rand can do now.

 

From the post quote, it seems that the dragon will be born again.  I think Rand will have to die, the wheel continuing to take its course. I'm so glad that he didn't die, and that he gets a chance at a happy life.  I thought it was really tragic that Egwene and Gawyn died, but honestly I'm surprised that more characters didn't get killed in the Las Battle. A lot of authors seems to like to kill everyone off at the end.

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