Prophecy; New and Fulfilled. (Full Spoilers)

[Amandera]

I hate the "fulfillment" of Nicola's foretelling too because the world post the LB is not teetering on an edge of a blade.

I think the "great battle" in that prophecy is the Battle of Merrilor. The one at SG is ongoing and in the situation with Rand vs DO it can literally be said that the world is teetering on the edge of a blade, Callandor.

 

Mostly because of this:

And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides,

when the right hand falters and the left hand strays,

that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight,

and all that is, all that was,

and all that will be shall balance on the point of a sword,

while the winds of the Shadow grow.

[skalors3]

 

 

 

I hate the "fulfillment" of Nicola's foretelling too because the world post the LB is not teetering on an edge of a blade.

I think the "great battle" in that prophecy is the Battle of Merrilor. The one at SG is ongoing and in the situation with Rand vs DO it can literally be said that the world is teetering on the edge of a blade, Callandor.

 

Mostly because of this:

And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides,

when the right hand falters and the left hand strays,

that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight,

and all that is, all that was,

and all that will be shall balance on the point of a sword,

while the winds of the Shadow grow.

Lol. I always assumed that prophecy was addressed on CoT. In fact, that about sums up the book and the world except the failed mention of DH, which doesn't mean it wasn't gathering at the time.

 

Hell, the last scene covers this well, Perrin wants to find Faile, Matt want to stay at FoM while the storm in SG rages. I would say everything was teetering the too.

[herid]

 

Rand kneeling to the Crystal throne has obviously been fulfilled when Rand knelt to Tuon in chapter 17. It was never proved conclusively that this was a false prophecy. Perhaps it was but perhaps not. I rather think it wasn't. It's not really important as it was fulfilled either way. The three on a boat one was a dream  and not a prophecy. Those need not be fulfilled and some weren't. I find the metaphorical explanations such as the ones offered earlier completely unacceptable so I prefer to think of this as an unfulfilled dream even though two different  dreamwalkers had it.

 

It was a Foretelling by Nicola, which is absolute. It just happened to be backed up by two different dreamers.

oops, sorry, you are quite right. I remembered that this was a dream but for a moment forgot that it was in Nicola's foretelling too. Well then, this sucks even more. Badly.

 

 

I hate the "fulfillment" of Nicola's foretelling too because the world post the LB is not teetering on an edge of a blade.

I think the "great battle" in that prophecy is the Battle of Merrilor. The one at SG is ongoing and in the situation with Rand vs DO it can literally be said that the world is teetering on the edge of a blade, Callandor.

 

Mostly because of this:

>>And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides,

when the right hand falters and the left hand strays,

that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight,

and all that is, all that was,

and all that will be shall balance on the point of a sword,

while the winds of the Shadow grow.

 

 

This was what I thought before AMOL as i believed this prophecy to be coupled with Nicola's foretelling. This was one of the many reasons I was so sure that Rand was going to die before the LB was over. The problem is that it doesn't fit the rest of Nicola's foretelling which in full was this

 

The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade.

 

So this is after Rand's death and after the Last Battle. I guess we have to take it that the future is still extremely unsettled and can slip into something like what Avi saw in her second trip to Rhuidean. Bair saw similar things so perhaps the Aiel (and likely the rest of the world) will have to walk a very fine line to keep things from deteriorating in the future and will use the crystal columns in Rhuidean as a test for that purpose.

[Amandera]

I don't think it has to be chronological. The land divided by the return thing for example happened before tPoD.

[MrBlack]

Herid seems to have the right of here as far as I can see.  The Foretelling specifically deals with the aftermath of the Last Battle and the fact that the future will be unsettled after it ends.  The Seanchan still control half the continent, and any peace between them and Rand's forces is tentative at best.  Tuon even stated that she feels under no obligation to stick to the Peace if she decides that it is not in the interest of the Empire.  The world could turn out as Rand pictures it: a near-utopian world where only Shara remains to oppose the peace.  It could also end up like Aviendha's vision: a world overrun by the Empire, where channelers are chained and the Aiel are reduced to beggars.

 

In other words, the future teeters on the edge of a blade.

[Mr. Micawber]

The scene where Moiraine walks in is laughably ridiculous and ruined prophecies forever for this series

[garryturk]

On a different note did anyone  find Alivia's role in helping Rand 'die' to be a bit strange?  Min was always telling people they couldn't work to avoid her viewings as they would simply happen.  But in this case it looks like one of Min/Avi/Elayne (likely Min) decided to tell Alivia what was going on to get her to get Rand his camping supplies.  Or in other words it looks like a viewing where the information from the viewing was used to make it happen.  To me that makes it unique.  And maybe I'm just bloody minded but if I was Min I'd have not told Alivia just to see how the Pattern twisted things to make sure she had to know.

Of course that could have happened and Alivia found out/got involved by Pattern-driven events but that feels much more contrived to me.

[Ixade]

Question on Prophecy of Gitara Moroso regarding Luc. She sent him off to Blight because she foretold that either fame awaited him or fate. He became Slayer - paid assassin/DF. Is it ever explained anymore on his fate or fate of Slayer/Isam? Does it help Rand or the World or he just tries to kill Rand (as asked to by Lanfear in Prologue) and fails? I can't believe that Gitara, who basically created circumustances that led Dragon Reborn's birth, would just send off Luc (who assumingly wasn't DF at the time) to became DF and Slayer and threat to Dragon Reborn for no reason other than to find "fame or fate in Blight".

 

I still attest that the 2nd saving of Rand by Perrin is when he defeats Lanfear, not when he defeats Slayer. Slayer's fate was to focus and channel the skills of Perrin to be the owner of the dream world and capable of that feat. 

 

Fate is a long and winding path and rarely ends up where you expect it to be when you walk that path. 

[Ixade]

"The north shall he tie to the east, and the west shall be bound to the south."

 

I think we focused this on the wetlands too much. 

 

North is the north of the welands and east is the waste. 

 

The west is Seanchan and the south is the conquered territories. 

[skalors3]

 

 

Question on Prophecy of Gitara Moroso regarding Luc. She sent him off to Blight because she foretold that either fame awaited him or fate. He became Slayer - paid assassin/DF. Is it ever explained anymore on his fate or fate of Slayer/Isam? Does it help Rand or the World or he just tries to kill Rand (as asked to by Lanfear in Prologue) and fails? I can't believe that Gitara, who basically created circumustances that led Dragon Reborn's birth, would just send off Luc (who assumingly wasn't DF at the time) to became DF and Slayer and threat to Dragon Reborn for no reason other than to find "fame or fate in Blight".

I still attest that the 2nd saving of Rand by Perrin is when he defeats Lanfear, not when he defeats Slayer. Slayer's fate was to focus and channel the skills of Perrin to be the owner of the dream world and capable of that feat.

 

Fate is a long and winding path and rarely ends up where you expect it to be when you walk that path.

You can argue that the viewing was completely fulfilled in this book. Everyone, even Perrin, assumed Dumai's well was the first time, but the BT really saved Rand in that encounter. If I know one thing,if the characters believe something it probably isn't true.

[Duskfire]

You can argue that the viewing was completely fulfilled in this book. Everyone, even Perrin, assumed Dumai's well was the first time, but the BT really saved Rand in that encounter. If I know one thing,if the characters believe something it probably isn't true.

 

Didnt RJ state though that the only reason Taim was able to find Rand was because he essentially followed Perrin? I could be wrong in remembering that, but Perrin was quite important in that battle, even though he didnt do the brunt of the damage.

[lolguy26]

i wonder if we'll ever find out the prophecies concerning shara

[Mats Spare Hat]

Bear with me on this:

What if the Broken Wolf, is Demandred.

"Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself?

Dude was so jealous/envious/po'd at LTT, that he turned(falls) from the Light, and becomes one of the Forsaken(consumed)...And, when destroyed in AmoL, we see the affect it has upon the hearts, and will of the Sharans(men) who follow him.

_____


Yeah? No? MMMmmmaaayybe?

[Sabio]

Herid seems to have the right of here as far as I can see.  The Foretelling specifically deals with the aftermath of the Last Battle and the fact that the future will be unsettled after it ends.  The Seanchan still control half the continent, and any peace between them and Rand's forces is tentative at best.  Tuon even stated that she feels under no obligation to stick to the Peace if she decides that it is not in the interest of the Empire.  The world could turn out as Rand pictures it: a near-utopian world where only Shara remains to oppose the peace.  It could also end up like Aviendha's vision: a world overrun by the Empire, where channelers are chained and the Aiel are reduced to beggars.

 

In other words, the future teeters on the edge of a blade.

I think wheter Tuon likes it or not, Mat is going to have a powerful influence in Seanchan.  Mat can't like the idea of chained women so I can't seem him just accepting it forever.  Sooner or later the knowledge that the "leash holders" can channel will become widely known and the Seanchan will have to deal with the impact.

[madelineb]

Rereading a list of prophecies, including Min's visions. The encyclopedia says: "TGH,Ch24: Elayne - She will have to share her husband with two other women and she will be a queen"

 

Well, queenship, check, sharing Rand with Min and Aviendha, double-check. Did Rand and Elayne get officially married during this book or before? If not, does that mean that they're going to get married down the line?

[Wheel of Thyme]

And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides,
when the right hand falters and the left hand strays,
that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight,
and all that is, all that was,
and all that will be shall balance on the point of a sword,
while the winds of the Shadow grow.

 

Rand had his left hand totally obliterated by Semiraghe. I suppose that could be seen as it being gone astray, but understatement to that vast degree is rather comical.

 

Or it could be metaphorical, as Perrin and Mat were Rand's right and left hand men, so to speak. But I do like the understatement of the series in the above interpretation.

[probe907]

I thought a lot of prophecies fell flat. Rand kneeling before the Seanchan sounded like homage (interesting) rather than business (boring). Lanfear's new lover sounded like someone she actually fell in love with, not a compulsed Perrin. And Logain and Alivia... The second most powerful male channeler and the most powerful female channeler (Seanchan war-trained to boot) - both of them supposed to play major roles in the Last Battle - and in the end neither did anything interesting! Owww :(.

[Agitel]

The Dark Prophecy says he WILL FALL and be consumed, that his destruction WILL bring fear and sorrow . . . all of that sounds pretty conclusive and none of it comes to pass as far as I know.  Lot of the Dark Prophecy seems to say what the Shadow HOPES will happen.   IF Perrin had fallen then I can definitely see how his destruction would bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men.

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure that the prophecy states that Perrin's pride (his resistance to being a leader and insistence on being only a blacksmith) will end and that the Broken Wolf (Ituralde) will fall. Ituralde was mentioned as the Little Wolf in the book. 

[ypdmd]

edit: answer to fionwe1987

 

But the quote wasn't like that at all.

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=188#18

Wotmania

Can Moridin use a male angreal if he channels the True Power?

 

Robert Jordan

No.

It's as straightforward as it gets. But Moridin indeed did use a male angreal (granted, Callandor is a sa'angreal but that does not turn this into an Aes Sedai answer) when he channeled the True Power.

 

Why I'm bothered by this: I was one of those that thought TP and OP would be used together to seal the Bore. Exactly as it happened. TP to touch the DO to protect from tainting. I was sure the three become one meant three Powers used together. I was sure magnifying taint meant it could be used to amplify TP and I was sure two women in a circle meant saidar would be needed as well. Though I thought Rand would draw it directly either by his link with Moridin or his allowance in TGS, not through a forced circle.

Then I saw the interview. And the theory fell apart.

 

Flawed or not, atypical or not, Callandor still is a sa'angreal. And we've always been told that TP was a matter of Shai'tan giving access. What happened is a contradiction to both.

 

Whether angreal or sa'angreal, Callandor may not have been used to amplify the TP. Only enough of the TP was needed to "glove" the point where saidin and saidar touched the DO. What the flaw did was allow Rand to use moridin's TP and saidin against his will.

[Heronz]

"In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning, and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith’s pride shall come. Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself."

 

The Broken Wolf

 

All of the Titles/Named on this propecy has had a huge impact on the Last Battle. The sole exception on this is "Him who will Destroy" who is the Dark One. In terms of its written importance there is only 5 possible characters who are arguable the most important: Rand, Perrin, Matt, Egwene, and Lan. The main 5 all had key moments except for Egwene, which her only possible title would be "First Among Vermin," but it is specifically refered to was "His." The other is Rand has a better claim to that title. Unfortunatly the 4 Great Captains prove their unimportance so I doubt any of them can claim a title. So it can be safely concluded that One-Eyed Fool is Matt, First Among Vermin is Rand, and Fallen Blacksmith, and leaving the Broken Wolf for Lan.

 

Lan has often been called a wolf or resemble one. He has also been refered to the one who courts Death or knows her very well. So what of the Midnight Towers? I think another way of interpeting can be Black Kingdoms/Stronghold. When Lan finished Demandred, he was felled in the midst of two kingdoms fighting for the Shadow: The Sharans and Shadows strongholds. Initially his death brought "fear and sorrow to the hearts of men." which then gave way to Matt's sole cheer. As being the one to commit the act that finished the longest chapter in the last battle, once can say that was pretty important.

 

That is my case for Lan being the Broken Wolf.

[pmtang]

When did Mat die, unlinking him with the horn?

[kasper11]

When he was killed by the Darkhound then brought back when Rand balefired the Darkhound.

 

When did Mat die, unlinking him with the horn?

[Agitel]

When did Mat die, unlinking him with the horn?

 

When he fell against Rahvin's lightning attack in The Fires of Heaven. Balefiring Rahvin didn't remake that link.

[Suttree]

 

When he was killed by the Darkhound then brought back when Rand balefired the Darkhound.

 

When did Mat die, unlinking him with the horn?

He didn't die in Rhuidean on the tree or with the DH incident. It was Rahvin.

[pmtang]

Ah, good call.