Prologue Through to the End of the Epilogue--Full Book Discussion.

[Mario Cole]

So do we have any idea of who would make a true power sa-angreal? Moridin seemed surprised, so it wasn't a forsaken - who were the only ones familiar with the TP. I wonder if it was in the cards all along or just in the last book(s). 

[Mario Cole]

*double post*

[MarkDiLillo]

As much as I liked Lan surviving.  His moment would have been much better if he didn't survive "sheathing the sword."  After I read that I shut the book and threw it down.  It was such an epic moment.  Then he was alive and I was like "oh, not as cool."

 

I agree....HOWEVER, the moment where we found out he lived as almost was good I thought.  The way it was woven together with Rand talking and saying we never give up, etc.  Epic

[Suttree]

 

Does Rand reunite with Moiraine?  And if so, how was that meeting?

I'll touch on this one. It was done ok I thought. Sanderson playd the "mystic guru" card too heavy handedly for my liking. Came off a bit flat as well.

[MarkDiLillo]

I look at the Rand/Moir reunion scene as one of those that is literally impossible for anyone to write but RJ.  It felt flat to me too, but I dont know that BS could have done much of a better job with it.  It was flat, but not a disaster by any means.  As far as dramatic and important scenes go, it was one of BS's best written IMO.

 

It's just one of those scenes that needed authenticity.  If we woke up tomorrow and learned that RJ had written that scene fully we could look at it under a different light and it would feel perfect.  Just knowing that BS wrote it kind of makes it flat.  And that's not something any other author could improve on so dont take it as a crack to BS.  That is also not to say that he wrote it perfectly and there was no room for improvement either.  It was just such an important scene that it needed authenticity of the real author behind it to make it work the way it should.

[Mario Cole]

I wasn't happy with Lan & Moiraine's interaction but hey whatever, Lan's got alot to do without gossiping with Moiraine.

[Werthead]

Alternatively, the civil war that Graendal and Rand between them set off could have had catastrophic effects on the population. And Demandred, by playing on their desperation and promising to save what number of them he could, managed to get their allegiance. Its pretty clear they were not Darkfriends, just desperate people hoodwinked into following Demandred.

 

That's certainly a possibility. However, my main point was that it is totally implausible that the Sharans present in the Last Battle represent 100% of Shara's total normal military and channelling manpower. Either they are a faction of Sharans (Darkfriends or patsies) or Shara's been levelled and they're the survivors.

 

What becomes of Galad and the Children of Light?

 

Galad survives, but loses an army to Demandred. Annoura finds him and gets him back to Mayene (at the cost of burning herself out). Berelain helps him recover and there is a possibility they might marry, but we don't get a full stop on that story.

 

The Children of the Light fight pretty well in the Last Battle, but it is unclear how many of them survive. They're at the hard end of a lot of the action (Galad seems to take them where the fighting is thickest) and they're one of the least numerous groups present on the battlefield. I wouldn't be surprised if they were effectively finished.

 

Does Rand reunite with Moiraine?  And if so, how was that meeting?

 

Reasonable, though the high point for me was more Cadusane and Moiraine's meeting (echoes of New Spring there) and then Moiraine bracing herself for her reunion with Nynaeve only for Nynaeve to hug her like a long-lost old friend, which seemed to confuse everyone.

 

Moiraine was definitely under-utilised. It's cool she's there to see the fruition of her plans with Rand striding into Shayol Ghul, and appropriate that her saidin weaves (along with Nynaeve's) are what Rand draws upon to regenerate the Dark One's prison, but she doesn't really do or say much beyond that. We don't even see her first reunion with Lan, just a frosty encounter between them later on.

[neverspeakawordagain]

A few questions I have.

 

Do we find out what the Fallen Blacksmith prophecy refers too?

 

What becomes of Galad and the Children of Light?

 

Does Rand reunite with Moiraine?  And if so, how was that meeting?

 

"Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself."

 

The best interpretation of this one, in my view, is that the Broken Wolf refers to Rodel Ituralde (whose nickname was the Wolf or the Little Wolf), who definitely "fell" (in the literal sense), and his conversion to the shadow (along with Brynne, Bashere, and Agelmar Jagad) certainly shook the will of the people. 

 

Galad gets to live happily ever after with Berelain (albeit with one arm and half his face missing), and the Children of the Light fight in the last battle, but nothing specifically happens with them (other than Dain Bornhald telling Perrin about how Fain was the one who killed his family, seemingly solely to be a jerk). 

[Edynol]

Yeah the Broken Wolf I had an idea was about Ituralde, but was just a passing though of mine.  Also thought it might have had something to do with Elyas or Rand.  lol.  I was talking about the Fallen Blacksmith one.

[Lord Melkor]

One thing I still did not learn much about - did anyone (in the book) wondered what Ashaman are going to do after the Last Battle, as they were created solely to help in Last Battle?

[neverspeakawordagain]

One thing I still did not learn much about - did anyone (in the book) wondered what Ashaman are going to do after the Last Battle, as they were created solely to help in Last Battle?

 

Yep. That's Logain's glory. Being a leader and a beacon of hope after the last battle (weird that that particular prophecy is something that's going be fulfilled offscreen after the series proper). 

[fionwe1987]

I just wanted to say I found Annoura's sacrifice to be unexpectedly moving. In a book filled with offhand Aes Sedai heroics, hers was very human. I wish the atmosphere of that moment had been present more on the book.

[fionwe1987]

I just wanted to say I found Annoura's sacrifice to be unexpectedly moving. In a book filled with offhand Aes Sedai heroics, hers was very human. I wish the atmosphere of that moment had been present more on the book.

[Lord Melkor]

 

One thing I still did not learn much about - did anyone (in the book) wondered what Ashaman are going to do after the Last Battle, as they were created solely to help in Last Battle?

 

Yep. That's Logain's glory. Being a leader and a beacon of hope after the last battle (weird that that particular prophecy is something that's going be fulfilled offscreen after the series proper). 

Hmm, does it seem like Logain would like to make Ashaman more than warriors, but also advisors and researchers like Aes Sedai are? He would certainly need to find reasonable compromise with the White Tower.

[Werthead]

Yep. That's Logain's glory. Being a leader and a beacon of hope after the last battle (weird that that particular prophecy is something that's going be fulfilled offscreen after the series proper).

 

Actually, I took the specific moment of glory being him overcoming his own doubts to shatter the Seals. If he hadn't, Rand would not have been able to hold off the Dark One indefinitely and would have been destroyed. So Logain is one of the several characters who can be said to have saved the world (along with Rand, Moiraine, Nynaeve, Olver, Perrin, Mat, Faile and - most convincingly in my view - Bela).

 

I also don't see how Logain leading the Asha'man after the Last Battle is a storyline that could have been fitted into a narrative that ends immediately after the Last Battle. We see how it's going to happen and don't really need a lengthy sequence expanding on it.

[Edynol]

Yeah I amn curious about a few of the minor characters.  Mainly Flinn, Narishma, and Talmanes.  What came of those three?

[Cherubin]

All three survived, I think. All were very minor support characters.

[fionwe1987]

Logain's glory is from overcoming the darkness that forced into him and deciding to save lives instead of seek power. This works both when he abandoned a sa'angreal to help refugees and when he broke the Seals according to Egwene's instructions. In case anyone had doubts, he even got a capitalized title for what he did: Sealbreaker.

[Zefram]

So what happened to minor characters - Talmanes - did he survive? Darlin - survive and still king of Tear?

 

Most of rulers of Borderlands? I assume Tenobia died since Faele and Perrin are ending up rulers of Saldaea?

 

What about others Arafel's Paitar, Kandor's Ethenielle, Shienar's Easar?

 

Were they killed in battle or thru actions of compromised Bashere and Agelmar?

 

Anything on Two Rivers? If Perrin leaves for Salaea then Two Rivers back to small village (town) in Andor?

[Cherubin]

Logain had his moment of glory in the view of the normal people when he rescued all the woman and children from being eaten by Trollocs. It was not heroic from our point of view, since he did not want to go, and he probably killed the Trollocs easily, - but for the people this one action by him was viewed as the most heroic of the Last Battle.

[neverspeakawordagain]

 

Yep. That's Logain's glory. Being a leader and a beacon of hope after the last battle (weird that that particular prophecy is something that's going be fulfilled offscreen after the series proper).

 

Actually, I took the specific moment of glory being him overcoming his own doubts to shatter the Seals. If he hadn't, Rand would not have been able to hold off the Dark One indefinitely and would have been destroyed. So Logain is one of the several characters who can be said to have saved the world (along with Rand, Moiraine, Nynaeve, Olver, Perrin, Mat, Faile and - most convincingly in my view - Bela).

 

I also don't see how Logain leading the Asha'man after the Last Battle is a storyline that could have been fitted into a narrative that ends immediately after the Last Battle. We see how it's going to happen and don't really need a lengthy sequence expanding on it.

 

The part about breaking the seals could certainly work as well. And I absolutely didn't want to see any more about the Asha'man after the last battle; it wouldn't have fit. My only point was that, assuming that the "glory" prophecy was about the new Black Tower and not the seals, I just find it amusing that such a major prophecy would be about something that happens outside the series proper, in that that would be really unexpected (kind of how it was amusing the way the Sheriam / "golden halo" viewing was fulfilled). 

 

And, yes, totally agree about Bela. 

[neverspeakawordagain]

So what happened to minor characters - Talmanes - did he survive? Darlin - survive and still king of Tear? Most of rulers of Borderlands? I assume Tenobia died since Faele and Perrin are ending up rulers of Saldaea? What about others Arafel's Paitar, Kandor's Ethenielle, Shienar's Easar? Were they killed in battle or thru actions of compromised Bashere and Agelmar? Anything on Two Rivers? If Perrin leaves for Salaea then Two Rivers back to small village (town) in Andor?

 

Talmanes, as far as I recall, did survive; he was leading most of Elayne's troops before Mat took general command last I remember. Tenobia died, Alsalam died, don't think we get any specifics on any of the other rulers (could be wrong on that). Rand's visions strongly imply that Eamond's Field is going to become a major city (on a level with Caemlyn). 

 

Flinn gets an arm ripped off but otherwise survives; IIRC, he's the only Asha'man we see in the epilogue. Narishma only gets mentioned once, briefly, if I can remember correctly, as being with Lan's people at Tarwin's Gap, and then doesn't get mentioned again, although, again, I could be wrong. 

[lilltempest]

I just wanted to say I found Annoura's sacrifice to be unexpectedly moving. In a book filled with offhand Aes Sedai heroics, hers was very human. I wish the atmosphere of that moment had been present more on the book.

What did she do that was so moving? I always figured she was BA!

[Werthead]

So what happened to minor characters - Talmanes - did he survive?

 

As mentioned above, yes. Talmanes basically saves Caemlyn's civilian population (or a remnant of it, anyway) in the prologue, rescues Aludra and the dragons, almost dies and is Healed. He then commands the dragon batteries at the Last Battle. Hilariously, he ends up in charge of a dragon battery located in a cave located far underground and totally inaccessible by passageway. Asha'man rapidly open and close gateways in front of the dragons, allowing them to fire absolutely anywhere on the battlefield without warning (and, of course, the Shadowspawn can't get through the gateway to destroy the batteries). Talmanes seems to enjoy this one-sided style of warfare rather a lot.

 

Darlin - survive and still king of Tear?

 

Yes. Seriously wounded and I believe at one stage is believed dead, but he survives.

 

Most of rulers of Borderlands? I assume Tenobia died since Faele and Perrin are ending up rulers of Saldaea? What about others Arafel's Paitar, Kandor's Ethenielle, Shienar's Easar?

 

Tenobia is killed. She leads from the front and she is taken out by a Trolloc horde. Agelmar dies (IIRC), but I believe Paitar, Ethenielle and Easar all survive.

 

Anything on Two Rivers?

 

Emond's Field seems destined to become a large city, with Perrin and Faile's descendants ruling it and people of all nations, even Aiel and Seanchan, walking peacefully on its streets.

 

If Perrin leaves for Salaea then Two Rivers back to small village (town) in Andor?

 

As mentioned above, it appears that Perrin and Faile's descendants remain in Andor. I assume Perrin and Faile will split their time between the Two Rivers and Saldaea (Saldaea itself, unlike Kandor, seems to have survived the Last Battle).

 

What did she do that was so moving? I always figured she was BA!

 

Trying to find a way of reconciling with Berelain, she decided to rescue Galad (Galad's charge up the hillside to confront Demandred was seen by everyone in the vicinity) and get him back to Mayene, where the army of the Light's field hospitals were located. Since she'd already been channelling all day through the battle, she was at her absolute limits in opening a gateway and getting Galad through it. She basically sacrificed herself to save Galad for Berelain.

[neverspeakawordagain]

 

I just wanted to say I found Annoura's sacrifice to be unexpectedly moving. In a book filled with offhand Aes Sedai heroics, hers was very human. I wish the atmosphere of that moment had been present more on the book.

What did she do that was so moving? I always figured she was BA!

 

She found Galad dying on the battlefield, and Travelled back to Mayene to see that he could be healed and brought to Berelain, burning herself out in the process.