Tuon Channels in KOD

[mauifranko78]

Curious if this was ever discussed. But it appears to me that Tuon may have started channeling in KOD. Ch.11 A Hell in Maderin - during the knife fight in the street. Mat turns to face the 8 attackers he sees. At the end of the fight, he notices that Tuon and Thom had not run due to another band of attackers. 6 men with swords would have been a tough fight for gimped Thom and unarmed Tuon and Selucia. Both Tom and Selucia take wounds, however Mat notices that Tuon has not a scratch.

 

"Mat wondered whether Tuon had taken part there, too, but he could not see a spot of blood on her anywhere....'Im an old man and sometimes I imagine I see things that can't be, but luckily, I always forget them.' Selucia paused to look up at him coolly. Lady's maid she might be, but blood seemed not to faze her at all. 'And what might you be trying to forget?' 'I can't recall, Thom replied. Selucia nodded and went back to examining his wounds." Mat then comments how they both have no wits.

 

Now, is it possible that Tuon was simply so capable of a fighter that Thom would make a comment like that?? Maybe. But why would he need to forget something as trivial as Tuon being good with her fists. Also, certainly Thom has seen capable nobly born women who can handle themselves in a fight. I think it is more likely that Thom caught a glimpse of Tuon channeling to help him stave off 6 men. And seeing her do this, willingly and adeptly, is enough for him to "imagine things".

[Elgee]

I thought it was generally assumed that Tom was referring to the fact that Selucia, who's supposed to be just a helpless lady's maid, turns out to be a deadly fighter.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yes, the general consensus is that Thom was referring to Selucia's skills as a bodyguard. 

 

It is also reinforced by Rand's comments on it in tGS and their subsequent surprise. 

 

 

[Knivy]

I doubt Tuon is lacking in the combat arena either.

[Suttree]

Tuon is a great fighter but we know Selucia is better and her secret bodyguard. Thom found it out during the fight. If you read the section it's pretty clear that is what he is referring to...

[Guest tonyplo]

I have always wondered about this as well. To me it seems to simple that he is referring to Selucia's skills as a body guard, and why would he need to forget what he saw. I guess to keep her body guarding skills "secret" but honestly who would he need to keep them secret from? I think its obvious that Mat figured out that Selucia fought. I dont know it just seems too simple to me for it to be her body guarding skills 

[Suttree]

KoD

   Thorn and Selucia were standing a little down the street, in front of the reason Tuon was still there, better than half a dozen bodies sprawled on the paving stones. Thorn had a knife in either hand and was allowing Selucia to examine a wound on his ribs through the rent in his coat. Oddly, by evidence of the dark glistening patches on his coat, he seemed to have fewer injuries than Mat. Mat wondered whether Tuon had taken part there, too, but he could not see a spot of blood on her anywhere. Selucia had a bloody gash down her left arm, though it appeared not to hinder her.
   “I’m an old man,” Thorn said suddenly, “and sometimes I imagine I see things that can’t be, but luckily, I always forget them.”
   Selucia paused to look up at him coolly. Lady’s maid she might be, but blood seemed not to faze her at all. “And what might you be trying to forget?”
   “I can’t recall,” Thorn replied. Selucia nodded and went back to examining his wounds.

Thom and Selucia where on their own down the alley away from Mat/Tuon. Selucia being effective hinges on people not knowing that Tuon's maid actually has super ninja skills. As Thom and Selucia where in front of Tuon during the fight and were the ones taking down all those DF's Thom realized quickly how good she actually was(I'm sure he suspected before) and we clearly see Selucia waiting for his acknowledgment that he will keep her secret. Mat commenting on the gash highlights this is about her fighting and he doesn't seem to have an idea yet on her true role. The Rand moment as Barid mentioned reinforced the whole thing.

 

As for Tuon channeling we clearly see her thoughts on what makes her different from damane in KoD and that is the fact that she chooses not to channel. It would habve been a hugely traumatic event for her had she done so here and certainly we would have seen the conflict in her thoughts at the end of KoD or some channeling sickness reaction to her touching the source for the first time.

[rand4747]

-

We do find out shes a bodyguard quite early on really. But at times you see how ready she is to kill people. when Tuons threatened she rolls over and plays scared to get close to the target to just flat out assassinate them. Tuon has stopped her killing Mat a couple times. When she starts begging shes ready to do murder. But about Tuon, no she doesn't channel, just probably didn't get in the thick off the fight but sorta struck when the opportunity presented itself avoiding blood.

[Maleshub]

It will take something much more intense than Maderin to make Tuon channel. The woman's nerves are steel!

[Ozzie_aiel]

It will take something much more intense than Maderin to make Tuon channel. The woman's nerves are steel!

I doubt trollocs rampaging towards her would make her channel. But I hope to see her come around and start channelling before the Last Battle, maybe saving Mat in the process.

[Morden]

 

It will take something much more intense than Maderin to make Tuon channel. The woman's nerves are steel!

I doubt trollocs rampaging towards her would make her channel. But I hope to see her come around and start channelling before the Last Battle, maybe saving Mat in the process.

 

 

wont happen, without some serious groundwork the seanchan empire would turn into total anarchy if its empress became marath'damane. And tbh the chances are she's got such a powerful block in place that she would struggle to anyway

[gpace1216]

the need to save mat could easily break her block

[Suttree]

Tuon didn't channel in KoD and Brandon has already weighe in on this. It doesn't rule it out exactly but it certainly doesn't seem like it will play a large role.

 

INTERVIEW: Nov 24th, 2012

Idaho Falls Signing Report - PrncRny (Paraphrased)

PRNCRNY

Do we ever find out how strong in the power Tuon would be if she ever snapped and started channeling? Did RJ leave any notes about that?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes he did. The problem is that that's not the sort of thing I can work into the books very easily. The issue is that her strength would be tied to, well, people's strength go up they practice and things. Yes he has the notes, but there's no way the characters can know for sure. That would be something for the outriggers, which maybe we can get into the encyclopedia. He left a big list for everyone and a number for their power level, their strength in the One Power, just for comparison's sake, which was cool because it would also say 'Here's the threshold for creating a gateway and here's the threshold for this' and its a really cool list and I hope they put it into the encyclopaedia but I don't know if they will.

 

PRNCRNY

Ok, so she's not going to snap in the next one and start channeling?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

Well. Even if she did, how powerful she would get would not be immediately evident. Does that make sense?

[Orderofolde]

Curious if this was ever discussed. But it appears to me that Tuon may have started channeling in KOD. Ch.11 A Hell in Maderin - during the knife fight in the street. Mat turns to face the 8 attackers he sees. At the end of the fight, he notices that Tuon and Thom had not run due to another band of attackers. 6 men with swords would have been a tough fight for gimped Thom and unarmed Tuon and Selucia. Both Tom and Selucia take wounds, however Mat notices that Tuon has not a scratch.

 

"Mat wondered whether Tuon had taken part there, too, but he could not see a spot of blood on her anywhere....'Im an old man and sometimes I imagine I see things that can't be, but luckily, I always forget them.' Selucia paused to look up at him coolly. Lady's maid she might be, but blood seemed not to faze her at all. 'And what might you be trying to forget?' 'I can't recall, Thom replied. Selucia nodded and went back to examining his wounds." Mat then comments how they both have no wits.

 

Now, is it possible that Tuon was simply so capable of a fighter that Thom would make a comment like that?? Maybe. But why would he need to forget something as trivial as Tuon being good with her fists. Also, certainly Thom has seen capable nobly born women who can handle themselves in a fight. I think it is more likely that Thom caught a glimpse of Tuon channeling to help him stave off 6 men. And seeing her do this, willingly and adeptly, is enough for him to "imagine things".

Well in keeping with the tradition of channelers from the beginning, in TEoTW, Rand channels to soothe Bela without knowing.  Of course that comment could be taken as Selucia revealing that she is really a deadly bodyguard in disguise, but even Tuon can handle herself.  She gave Mat several good licks when he tried to kidnap her and eventually went with him of her own free will though it probably didn't seem like it to him.  Had he tried and had she not really wanted to go, poor Mat would have been made property a long while back. I doubt that Thom would comment like that unless it was something more than both women knowing full well how to fight.  He had to have seen something to make such a wry comment, because it served two purposes.  The first to let us know something happened, and the second to reassure Selucia and Tuon that dodgy or not, he wasn't going to reveal anything so he didn't one day have an "accident" to keep the secret.  A third purpose, also, along the same note, if some accident did befall poor Thom, that comment might pop into someone's head and make them wonder about the women.   

[DaoineSidhe]

Couple of things on this:

 

As others have stated, it seemed quite obvious to me that Thom was referring to Selucia being a secret bodyguard for Tuon.  While Tuon mentions it in her POVs a lot, she also always mentions how she's a "shadow", and her "unknown protector".  Before this, we have not heard any hint from anyone that they guess Selucia's true reason for being so close to Tuon.  And now Thom clearly saw Selucia fight with him while they were beset by the group of DFs.  And being the politically astute character he is, he immediately recognizes that this is a big "secret" for Selucia.

 

In addition, as others have also stated, Tuon has shown herself to be someone who is supremely in control of herself at almost all times.  She even makes sure to keep calling Mat "Toy" in this scene in order to win their "contest" (Toy versus Precious).  So while a group of DFs did attack them, at no point was Tuon nearly desperate enough to have reached out for the power.  While characters have channeled before without realizing it, it has ALWAYS been in moments of supreme emotion distress, where the person either desired something, or feared something so much, and they FELT POWERLESS against it, that they unconsciously reached out the OP as their last lifeline.  In what way does Tuon even come close to meeting those circumstances?

 

Finally, if an/or when Tuon starts channeling, do you think it will happen off-screen, in a hinted about way, such that there is a very real question as to whether she channeled or not?  No way, Jose.  This would be a huge turning point for the Seanchan (if she stays Empress), a long with being very key to her character development.  When a character as important as Fortuona starts channeling, believe me when I say that NOBODY will miss it.  It has to be obvious and momentous.  I tend to believe she will probably channel at some point in aMoL, most likely to save Mat, or possibly Olver.

[Ozzie_aiel]

Can those born without the spark but can still learn to channel spontaneously do so? I've never heard of it done.

[Whizbang]

@Ozzie_aiel

 

She is right on the brink of doing so. She has become very proficient at channeling through the a'dam. She knows how to channel. All that is needed is for her to embrace the source. I would assume that knowing how to embrace the source through another person is not all that disimilar to doing it yourself. Once she does that, she's good to go. Maybe her own strength will need some time to grow to its potential, but she should be able to do the most common stuff right off, and with considerably more adeptness than any novice.

[Suttree]

There is zero precedent set from the other sul'dam that were as experienced(if not more) than Tuon being able to do "common stuff" from the get go. She would still need to learn basics to do more than create sparks amd the like based on what we have seen. That assumes she isn't somehow on a different level.

[yoniy0]

To be honest, there seem to be a contradiction in how the a'dam works. Egwene's handlers forced her to weave whatever they wished with a reward/punishment system, but when Tuon leashed Joline she directly embraced the Source and let go of it, and she directly weaved to try and stop Mat (there was no way for her to convey instructions to Joline, nor would any instructions be followed at that time).

 

So Tuon might be unusually adept at this suldam thing, or it might even be a Talent. I can see no other explanation, given how young she is. What's for sure is we can't predict how adept she'd be at channeling on her own, although Brandon's mind-set hints that this avenue won't be explored in the books.

[Whizbang]

 

There is zero precedent set from the other sul'dam that were as experienced(if not more) than Tuon being able to do "common stuff" from the get go. She would still need to learn basics to do more than create sparks amd the like based on what we have seen. That assumes she isn't somehow on a different level.

 

Joline took up the story. "Bethamin channeled. I've never before seen the weave she used, but for a few moments, until she lost the Source, she had sparks dancing all over the three of us. I think she may have used as much of the Power as she could draw."

I suppose this could be interpreted differently, but I saw it as Bethamin weaving something she had seen/made damane use. She knew how to weave it through the a'dam, but not how to embrace the Source. When she was under duress, she completed that step that brought her from the brink of channeling, to actually channeling. Now that she has done so, it is merely a matter of increasing her strength, and maybe some dexterity and confidence. Tuon, though, if she ever did decide to channel, would not need the practice at dexterity and confidence, I feel. She is a perfectionist and would not be as timid or self-concious as Bethamin. She'd take all of her knowledge and skill as a sul'dam and transfer it whole into channeling. All she'd need to do is grow her strength.

[Suttree]

Nah...all she did was randomly make sparks with a burst of power. That is certainly not channleing "common weaves" damane had used from the get go.

[yoniy0]

I'm not so sure. It appears akin to the function of Asne's stun-gun (was it Asne that used it?). I, too, believe Seta knew the weave and simply lacked proper control to channel on her own.

[Suttree]

The stun gun? It didn't effect them at all like that and we have never seen a damane use anything similar.

[Whizbang]

One thing to note, Joline said it was an unfamiliar weave. She didn't say it was just a random burst of power from an untrained channeler. Aes Sedai would know what an untrained channeler just thrashing around with the power looks like. They do train novices after all. If it was apparent the weave was from an inept channeler, she would have said so. Instead she said it was not a weave she was familiar with.

[yoniy0]

Sutt, it severely lacked in power, which would explain the lack of other symptoms, and the tingling lights are similar. The downside is you'd expect us to see it when the Seanchan attacked the WT, but we didn't. However, TGS is hardly a viable litmus test for continuity issues.