Thisguy's Topic on Brandon's Work

[arianrose]

Sanderson and Tor simply couldn't afford to structure TGS differently. It had to end with a bang and with some of the major storylines completed, otherwise too many fans, who were already getting tired of the slow pace and what they saw as nothing major happening, and who had doubts over the new author taking over, would've given up on the series. Another setup book was simply not an option IMO.

 

I get that. It had to be explosive and deliver the climax that fans adored from the earlier volumes of the series. However, there's still a cost to that decision, and I believe that cost was making the narrative weaker than it could have been. (Not to say that it's not weak at all - I have my problems with TGS and ToM too, but weaker.)

[TootThatHorn]

I like Dom's post, but he didn't real give specifics on what to cut.

 

My problem with what he says in the context of how we are discussing it in this thread is that it's just ridiculous to act as though this is come kind of detriment for Brandon. If Brandon's biggest fault is that he spent too much time exploring the arc of Rand's descent, then it's a pretty glowing comparison to Jordan.

 

It's actually a pretty good summation of everything that went wrong with the series in later books. The idea that spending too much time on exploring the inner workings of the main frickin character is "filler" and getting in the way of all those dress descriptions and superfluous PoV's from Creator knows how many irrelevant bit characters.

 

Maybe Brandon wouldn't have had to spend so much time on Rand and Perrin's personal story arcs if Jordan had done more then just have Perrin throw his ax away and have Rand lose a hand for the length of about 4 books.

 

Most of the post is more about the split then about Brandon filler. Which I think most of us agree with. The split hurt the the story in several ways. But that's hardly on Brandon, the fault of it can also be spread about 10 different directions.

 

I got the impression that he wasn't feeling so much the need to point out specific things about what needed to be cut; it was more like BS was going for quantity over quality for most of the arcs, which I definitely found myself agreeing with.

[Agitel]

I like Dom's post, but he didn't real give specifics on what to cut.

 

My problem with what he says in the context of how we are discussing it in this thread is that it's just ridiculous to act as though this is come kind of detriment for Brandon. If Brandon's biggest fault is that he spent too much time exploring the arc of Rand's descent, then it's a pretty glowing comparison to Jordan.

 

It's actually a pretty good summation of everything that went wrong with the series in later books. The idea that spending too much time on exploring the inner workings of the main frickin character is "filler" and getting in the way of all those dress descriptions and superfluous PoV's from Creator knows how many irrelevant bit characters.

 

Maybe Brandon wouldn't have had to spend so much time on Rand and Perrin's personal story arcs if Jordan had done more then just have Perrin throw his ax away and have Rand lose a hand for the length of about 4 books.

 

Most of the post is more about the split then about Brandon filler. Which I think most of us agree with. The split hurt the the story in several ways. But that's hardly on Brandon, the fault of it can also be spread about 10 different directions.

 

I got the impression that he wasn't feeling so much the need to point out specific things about what needed to be cut; it was more like BS was going for quantity over quality for most of the arcs, which I definitely found myself agreeing with.

 

I got the sense of that with parts of Perrin's arc in ToM, but not with tGS. Oh, I wish some things were handled differently in tGS *cough*MAT'S FAKE BACKSTORY / BATTLEPLAN*cough*, but I didn't feel that the goal of that whole thing was superfluous.

[BFG]

I like Dom's post, but he didn't real give specifics on what to cut.

 

My problem with what he says in the context of how we are discussing it in this thread is that it's just ridiculous to act as though this is come kind of detriment for Brandon. If Brandon's biggest fault is that he spent too much time exploring the arc of Rand's descent, then it's a pretty glowing comparison to Jordan.

 

It's actually a pretty good summation of everything that went wrong with the series in later books. The idea that spending too much time on exploring the inner workings of the main frickin character is "filler" and getting in the way of all those dress descriptions and superfluous PoV's from Creator knows how many irrelevant bit characters.

 

Maybe Brandon wouldn't have had to spend so much time on Rand and Perrin's personal story arcs if Jordan had done more then just have Perrin throw his ax away and have Rand lose a hand for the length of about 4 books.

 

Most of the post is more about the split then about Brandon filler. Which I think most of us agree with. The split hurt the the story in several ways. But that's hardly on Brandon, the fault of it can also be spread about 10 different directions.

 

I got the impression that he wasn't feeling so much the need to point out specific things about what needed to be cut; it was more like BS was going for quantity over quality for most of the arcs, which I definitely found myself agreeing with.

 

I got the sense of that with parts of Perrin's arc in ToM, but not with tGS. Oh, I wish some things were handled differently in tGS *cough*MAT'S FAKE BACKSTORY / BATTLEPLAN*cough*, but I didn't feel that the goal of that whole thing was superfluous.

 

Yet this is a perfect example of can't do right for doing wrong, or vice versa. Perrin is one of my least favourite characters, but i felt most of his arc in ToM was necessary to his characters development leading up to TG, similarly with Eg. I'm not saying they couldn't have been edited down, but I suspect that I'd be willing to completely lose a lot less than other people.

 

I also like tGS, but I think I'm starting to understand the structural problems with the split and the fact that the BT is still so far behind may be a problem with aMoL, but I'm going to rafo before I call that one completely.

 

*cough* completely agree with Mat *cough*

[TreeJoe]

People don't expect it to be as good as RJ, but then measure against RJ. They also don't step back and realize how much of RJ's quirks they no longer deal with in comparison.

 

This is quite simply not true. It's never been about being as good as RJ, it's about being as good as Brandon can be and that is what people have an issue with. From that last Dom post for instance...

 

"And the sad thing is that Brandon's novels are a fair indication he's capable of having achieved that,"

 

As for RJ's quirks those have been discussed and critiqued for years and years here and at TL. Everyone is very much aware of them. Around CoT the mood on these sights was at least as (if not more) negative than what we are currently seeing. This is quite simply where we are with the release of new materials. Obviously those are going to be the current topic. You have been around long enough to remember those old RJ discussions. Again I think it comes down to how much each individual values polished prose. If something is written well and immersive there is a group that will be more willing to overlook quirks.

 

Suttree - You do good work at your job. How could you possibly not come do my job and not ALSO do good work? I mean, you've shown you are capable of good work. Why can't you be good at what I do as well?

 

It's a strawman argument. Jordan is/was a storyweaver in some ways greater than Tolkien. Brandon is a fine novelist AFAIK. They are two very different things.

 

The constant comparison and indication that any talented Novelist should be able to come into the role and use copious notes and outlines and produce a sophisticated end-product is simply not reality.

 

If it was, we'd have more masterpieces in this world then there truly are...

 

Also, your signature indicates a certain biased mindset. I hope you can go into the last book open to loving every moment of it.

[Suttree]

People don't expect it to be as good as RJ, but then measure against RJ. They also don't step back and realize how much of RJ's quirks they no longer deal with in comparison.

 

This is quite simply not true. It's never been about being as good as RJ, it's about being as good as Brandon can be and that is what people have an issue with. From that last Dom post for instance...

 

"And the sad thing is that Brandon's novels are a fair indication he's capable of having achieved that,"

 

As for RJ's quirks those have been discussed and critiqued for years and years here and at TL. Everyone is very much aware of them. Around CoT the mood on these sights was at least as (if not more) negative than what we are currently seeing. This is quite simply where we are with the release of new materials. Obviously those are going to be the current topic. You have been around long enough to remember those old RJ discussions. Again I think it comes down to how much each individual values polished prose. If something is written well and immersive there is a group that will be more willing to overlook quirks.

 

Suttree - You do good work at your job. How could you possibly not come do my job and not ALSO do good work? I mean, you've shown you are capable of good work. Why can't you be good at what I do as well?

 

It's a strawman argument. Jordan is/was a storyweaver in some ways greater than Tolkien. Brandon is a fine novelist AFAIK. They are two very different things.

 

Uhmm I'm not sure you understand what straw man means. Ironically enough you end up giving a perfect example here however.

 

As for my sig it is a joke made by someone at Theoryland. Do i really need to make that clear with a #joking?

 

Rest assured I have given far more thought to this than most. I also gave Brandon more than my share of praise when TGS was released. It took me a very long time to reach the conclusions I have and it was not done easily.

[TreeJoe]

Suttree - you gave a quote indicating that because Brandon is capable of good work on his own novels, he should be similarly capable here.

 

That is a strawman argument. The strawman argument came from you. I simply wrote out your thinking. You were defending that line of thought as reasonable. I provided an analog to that strawman to paint it's ridiculously.

 

Your sig is a joke, yet you express thinking going down the same line? Perhaps it is both a joke and a sad reality to you?

 

...

 

I appreciate both your responses and your timeliness in doing so. Nonetheless, you have neatly evaded actually responding to me multiple times.

 

My sole purpose in posting here, as I'm not a regular contributor but do peruse D.M., is to point out how i feel some folks have gone into a circular logic and/or groupthink mode about the end of this series. It's incredibly easy for very intelligent folks to fall into the traps of their own mind (as I do myself, albeit not sure if I fall into very intelligent status or not...)

 

I see alot of fine folks who have dedicated 10-20 years of their lives to the reading and re-reading of this series and whose posts indicate they have become bitter and resentful of the concept of finding the last books inferior to their expectations.

 

IMHO, that's totally reasonable. And there are problems, don't get me wrong. But it's become too easy for many to lose the forest for the trees and are no longer truly capable of explaining why they are going into the last book with dread.

 

I literally pray that many of those individuals can realize the clouds swirling around their thoughts whilst they stand upon a pinnacle of storymaking, take a deep breath, laugh, and find themselves looking forward to the last book in hope and wonder.

 

I spent about a week on here post Chapter 2 and i found myself thinking "What a shame". About the last book in the Wot. Something I've waited 15 years for.

 

Then I took a step back, realized how flawed my thinking had become from immersing myself in some of what this community had become, and remembered why this last book will be a great few days in my life.

[Maleshub]

Just jumped in and read the last page about what could be cut and what not. In my current reread, I think there are nearly 20 chapters covering the day of the cleansing of saidin. The last chapter of WH and so far the first 16 chapters of CoT are all covering events on that day.

 

My initial reaction to Chapter 2 Audio was that it could have achieved its purpose in half its length. For example, Aviendha's visit to Elayne's tent could have been as simple as a "memory" during her meeting with Rand, one paragraph. But that's just me!

I was curious about this, and it turns out there are 15 or 16 (depending on what day chapter 28 started) total chapters that include events from the day of the Cleansing, including the one where it was detailed in WH 35. Of the 14 in CoT, eight actually mention the cleansing, five of which are Elayne's chapters, who as a channeler can feel it from beginning to end. Otherwise there's one Faile chapter where the Shaido WO's notice it, one Mat chapter and one Perrin chapter, both of whom can see images of Rand for the first time.

 

Now, people might think this is excessive reference to a single day, but I would argue that this day was among the most important days of the third age, probably the most important day to that point in 3rd age history, and it included an event that could be felt by pretty much every channeler in the world. Also it begins the phenomenon of actually seeing the other ta'veren instead of just colors when they think of each other. It would be pretty unrealistic to have people not mention something of that magnitude. It was important that the people around Rand were the ones we get to see first, for obvious reasons. The far reaching effects of it beg for other storylines to be brought up to speed immediately after that. Actually, most of the chapters that take place on that day aren't just a bunch of people sitting around reacting to the cleansing, though. It's mentioned at the end of the last of three Mat chapters, the end of the last of four Perrin chapters, and somewhere in the middle of Faile's. The biggest problem with the whole thing is that it includes the five Elayne chapters, which are considered by many the most frustrating section of any of the first eleven books. Not only do they not advance her plot a whole heck of a lot when readers are yearning for it, but they irritate due to the fact that we've already had three different PoV's of non-channelers seeing channelers react to the cleansing, and then you get a huge block of story from someone that is bonded to Rand, wants to help him, but is told that going to him would be a disaster. So yes, it's going to be in her thoughts a lot. If there was a way that those chapters could have happened the next day instead, so she could just think about what Avi told her and remember the previous day's oddities, it probably would have been a lot more bearable.

 

RJ has said before that if he could have done it over again, he'd have changed some of the structure of Crossroads of Twilight. It was definitely the weakest offering from him in the series. Things could definitely have been trimmed, but not cut completely. He got the ball rolling again with KoD, thankfully, as many threads were tied up and we were primed for the beginning of the end.

 

The problem with the books after KoD is that they wanted to 'hit a home run' with the first book, TGS. It ended on a high note, sure, with Rand's epiphany, and we all thought 'Wow, that's pretty good. Can't wait to see more.' But then with the next book you realize just how out of whack the timeline is. So much was sacrificed for Rand and Egwene to have their moments in TGS to hit that home run, and afterwards not very much makes sense. It might have been better if they caught everyone up to Rand/Egwene before they had the 'apples first' and 'the amyrlin's anger', but Rand ended up having 5 chapters and Egwene 6 before Perrin and the wolves witnessed Rand's epiphany from T'A'R. Then five of the next 6 of Perrin's chapters also have Egwene PoV's, and they somehow catch up to each other in the last two, even though Egwene had a 6 chapter head start on him. The structure of ToM is maddening. You don't have any sense of what's happening when, and people still can't figure out where the black tower is even with two mentions in the AMoL material.

 

RJ hit a big home run at the cleansing by having Rand's group get a day ahead of the others and then bit the bullet to get everyone caught up, giving us some of the weaker sections of his story, but it got things stabilized and ready to move forward. Brandon hit his home run by having Rand/Egwene jump about a week or two (or who knows how long, really) ahead of other principle characters, and then didn't bother to get everyone else up to speed after the WT Seanchan Attack/Veins of Gold before going on with Rand and Egwene again, so everything is convoluted. But even had he caught everyone up, like Dom mentions, the urgency of the other storylines is very much diminished since we already know Rand is on the correct path, even though he isn't yet during their scenes. It's just really disappointing.

 

It could be CoT influence on me; but I still think that half a book (15-16 chapters) is way too much for a single event and corresponding developments. We are basically covering the following plotlines in those chapters:

- Mat's departure from Ebou Dar (he only decided to move and didn't move a single step)

- Perrin's continued pursuit of Shaido and Faile's suffering (He finally caught up to them because Sevanna decided to stay put)

- Elayne's small steps in her quest for the Rose Crown (just a whole bunch of minor details and explanations of certain actions and non actions, nothing major).

 

Taking into consideration the lack of any major developments in those chapters, give 3 chapters for each plotline and you still end up with 40% space to use for other stuff.

 

Nothing beats TEotW in pace and action mixed with details and subtlety.

[Guest julenbek]

After a few weeks reading this topic, I want to give my view.

I want to start with this Dutch expression ( sorry if this is not correct in english) : if my aunt would have had testicels she would have been my uncle.

We can all keep on going what would have if ... and it should have been ....

But it is as it is. Try to accept it and most of all try to enjoy it. Because as much as some want it, we can not change what has happend and what has been written. I have been reading these books for 17 years now and I have enjoyed every book. And I want to know how the story ends and I want to enjoy it.

 

Txs

[NetSlider]

Suttree - you gave a quote indicating that because Brandon is capable of good work on his own novels, he should be similarly capable here.

 

That is a strawman argument. The strawman argument came from you. I simply wrote out your thinking. You were defending that line of thought as reasonable. I provided an analog to that strawman to paint it's ridiculously.

 

Your sig is a joke, yet you express thinking going down the same line? Perhaps it is both a joke and a sad reality to you?

 

...

 

I appreciate both your responses and your timeliness in doing so. Nonetheless, you have neatly evaded actually responding to me multiple times.

 

My sole purpose in posting here, as I'm not a regular contributor but do peruse D.M., is to point out how i feel some folks have gone into a circular logic and/or groupthink mode about the end of this series. It's incredibly easy for very intelligent folks to fall into the traps of their own mind (as I do myself, albeit not sure if I fall into very intelligent status or not...)

 

I see alot of fine folks who have dedicated 10-20 years of their lives to the reading and re-reading of this series and whose posts indicate they have become bitter and resentful of the concept of finding the last books inferior to their expectations.

 

IMHO, that's totally reasonable. And there are problems, don't get me wrong. But it's become too easy for many to lose the forest for the trees and are no longer truly capable of explaining why they are going into the last book with dread.

 

I literally pray that many of those individuals can realize the clouds swirling around their thoughts whilst they stand upon a pinnacle of storymaking, take a deep breath, laugh, and find themselves looking forward to the last book in hope and wonder.

 

I spent about a week on here post Chapter 2 and i found myself thinking "What a shame". About the last book in the Wot. Something I've waited 15 years for.

 

Then I took a step back, realized how flawed my thinking had become from immersing myself in some of what this community had become, and remembered why this last book will be a great few days in my life.

 

Well said and I have to say it encompasses my view as well. I was getting very bitter about the series after the release date was announced and it took me awhile to realize that I'm actually the one who is ruining my experience with the series. So I def know what you mean.

[ArveduiEreinion]

Suttree - you gave a quote indicating that because Brandon is capable of good work on his own novels, he should be similarly capable here.

 

That is a strawman argument. The strawman argument came from you. I simply wrote out your thinking. You were defending that line of thought as reasonable. I provided an analog to that strawman to paint it's ridiculously.

 

Your sig is a joke, yet you express thinking going down the same line? Perhaps it is both a joke and a sad reality to you?

 

...

 

I appreciate both your responses and your timeliness in doing so. Nonetheless, you have neatly evaded actually responding to me multiple times.

 

My sole purpose in posting here, as I'm not a regular contributor but do peruse D.M., is to point out how i feel some folks have gone into a circular logic and/or groupthink mode about the end of this series. It's incredibly easy for very intelligent folks to fall into the traps of their own mind (as I do myself, albeit not sure if I fall into very intelligent status or not...)

 

I see alot of fine folks who have dedicated 10-20 years of their lives to the reading and re-reading of this series and whose posts indicate they have become bitter and resentful of the concept of finding the last books inferior to their expectations.

 

IMHO, that's totally reasonable. And there are problems, don't get me wrong. But it's become too easy for many to lose the forest for the trees and are no longer truly capable of explaining why they are going into the last book with dread.

 

I literally pray that many of those individuals can realize the clouds swirling around their thoughts whilst they stand upon a pinnacle of storymaking, take a deep breath, laugh, and find themselves looking forward to the last book in hope and wonder.

 

I spent about a week on here post Chapter 2 and i found myself thinking "What a shame". About the last book in the Wot. Something I've waited 15 years for.

 

Then I took a step back, realized how flawed my thinking had become from immersing myself in some of what this community had become, and remembered why this last book will be a great few days in my life.

 

 

No. Suttree and others have explained exactly why "they are going into this last book with dread." Please read this thread in its entirety. After that, why not respond to their actual arguments with counter-arguments and examples. So, for example, Suttree already said the following:

 

And, what I find funny is that it's fine to critique the work but not to critique the critique of the work.

 

Because this is rarely if ever done. Where are the counter examples disproving what is being said? Where are the posts showing the opposite of blunt prose or poor characterization. We never get that, what we get is the disingenuous claims of people being "whiners", "complainers" or "hyenas". Many times followed by a just be grateful we are getting the finish. Well just getting the finish isnt nearly good enough.

 

Why cant we just accept that they wont be as good as the original authors and never will be.

 

That's missing the point. It's about Brandon and his personnel growth as an author. For most of the people that genuinely care about the series and aren't just looking to bash that is the key point.

 

By the way, you did make a straw man argument and Suttree was right not to respond to it. I, on the other hand, have no such qualms.

[TreeJoe]

ArveduiEreinion,

 

I have re-examined my post several times now and I literally cannot see how I created a strawman argument. I understand both you and Suttree interpreted it as such, but I was literally using his own examples and words in an analogy - I did not create a seperate argument. Nonetheless, ok.

 

I have read all I care to read, and it has been enough. The critical mass of negativity pushed me away from the forum and tainted my view on the series, and that's when I realized that it wasn't the actual books doing it to me....it was the forum. Despite the lowered quality of the last 6 books in the series (overall, compared to, say, the first 6 books in the series), I had become more excited....until I logged into the forum and started getting into the vicious downwards cycles of negative impressions.

 

At the end of the day, i think it's about expectations. When RJ passed away, I feared the series would not be completed. When it was announced it would be completed and what was available to aid the new writer, my expectations were that the original vision would be fulfilled but that the writing style would not hold up.

 

I had significantly lowered expectations, and there have been enough scenes that have emerged since then that i've read and re-read that, when I think about, I remain as excited as I was when I was 15 years old cracking tDR for the first time after the first two books.

[TreeJoe]

Also, I've commented elsewhere with my thoughts on some of the critiques where I disagreed. I'm keeping my comments here to a more overall stance, rather than goign down the slippery slope of nitpicking smaller arguments.

[TootThatHorn]

I would like to point out that there are only a few threads where the actual quality of the writing gets put in to question. On top of that, it's not even the critique, from what I can see at this point, that is keeping those threads going. From what I've seen it's those that have done the critiquing are mostly responding to poorly worded arguments against them at this point. I'm seriously questioning who is responsible for the threads staying alive at this point.

[skalors3]

I would like to point out that there are only a few threads where the actual quality of the writing gets put in to question. On top of that, it's not even the critique, from what I can see at this point, that is keeping those threads going. From what I've seen it's those that have done the critiquing are mostly responding to poorly worded arguments against them at this point. I'm seriously questioning who is responsible for the threads staying alive at this point.

 

TootThatHorn, the true problem with this thread is that it was started in the first place. I am reading the end of a series I picked up in 1991 at a used bookstore when I was 11 years. I am reading that ending because of the efforts of Brandon Sanderson. As is everyone else.

 

The people who critique his effort do so because that's their personality. It isn't because they have a deeper love, or understanding, of the series. I can assure you, I love this series just as much as the next person.

 

Are their inconsistencies? Sure. Likely, there may have been with RJ too. I believe he did a good job with the stories. Especially considering what he was left with.

[Suttree]

The people who critique his effort do so because that's their personality. It isn't because they have a deeper love, or understanding, of the series. I can assure you, I love this series just as much as the next person.

 

Wait what? Critique of literature comes down to someone's personality? What are you on about? Secondly why would anyone ever correlate those who have pointed out the flaws with having more of a love for or understanding of the series?

 

Though the majority of people express agreement with the problems they don't like the way it is being pointed out in every thread. That is why there is a thread like this for people to debate the quality of the work. It would be nice if people actually did that instead of attacking analysis or saying there is no plae for it. Art is made to be critiqued and it is very important that people be allowed to do so.

[skalors3]

The people who critique his effort do so because that's their personality. It isn't because they have a deeper love, or understanding, of the series. I can assure you, I love this series just as much as the next person.

 

Wait what? Critique of literature comes down to someone's personality? What are you on about? Secondly why would anyone ever correlate those who have pointed out the flaws with having more of a love for or understanding of the series?

 

What I do find interesting though is the majority of people express agreement with the problems but don't like the way it is being pointed out in every thread. That is why there is a thread like this for people to debate the quality of the work. It would be nice if people actually did that instead of attacking analysis or saying there is no plae for it. Art is made to be critiqued and it is very important that people be allowed to do so.

 

I absolutely believe that those who critique, especially the way some do here, are demonstrating a personality trait. Just like it is a personality trait to critique those who critique such as I am doing. I didn't say it was a personality flaw, just a trait. My thoughts on that have no purpose in this post. Nonetheless, it doesn't justify the critique.

 

There are inconsistencies. I think everyone agrees on that. Some scenes don't mesh. We all agree. Who cares? This man isn't the original author, and to be honest, he is doing all WoT readers a favor. I believe such critique would be justified if he wrote the entire series. However, he didn't, and he is doing well with what he was given. Secondly, you all assume that all poor plot turns were his idea when you absolutely have no idea; you don't know what RJ left him with.

[Finnssss22]

The people who critique his effort do so because that's their personality. It isn't because they have a deeper love, or understanding, of the series. I can assure you, I love this series just as much as the next person.

 

Wait what? Critique of literature comes down to someone's personality? What are you on about? Secondly why would anyone ever correlate those who have pointed out the flaws with having more of a love for or understanding of the series?

 

Though the majority of people express agreement with the problems they don't like the way it is being pointed out in every thread. That is why there is a thread like this for people to debate the quality of the work. It would be nice if people actually did that instead of attacking analysis or saying there is no plae for it. Art is made to be critiqued and it is very important that people be allowed to do so.

 

Actually, what I find interesting is that far too many of these people "critiquing" BS, are the same ones that were defending RJ over aPoD through Cot and continue to do so even now. Hell, it's being done in the same breath as "critiquing" BS half the time heh.

That kinda of thing tends to leave a sour taste in ones mouth.

I think a lot of people find this pretty hypocritical and that tends to make a large part of what's being said, not all of it, but a good part of it to come off as being anything but impartial.

I do understand it though. We had a level of trust with RJ, that he would right the ship and we don't have that level of trust in BS.

 

As I've said before, I think there's some middle ground but we're not going to get there as long as there is this prevailing under current going on that BS is ruining what was a "perfect" series up to this point.

[Sid]

To 'not care' that there are inconsistencies and poor execution in telling the end of the tale is kind of a slap in the face of RJ's legacy, don't you think? I honestly can't wrap my head around that someone would care enough about a series that they'd take time out of their day to discuss it online, but then not care enough that the last part of the story is told in the best way it could be.

[skalors3]

To 'not care' that there are inconsistencies and poor execution in telling the end of the tale is kind of a slap in the face of RJ's legacy, don't you think? I honestly can't wrap my head around that someone would care enough about a series that they'd take time out of their day to discuss it online, but then not care enough that the last part of the story is told in the best way it could be.

 

Again, everyone assumes that this was a poor execution to RJ's legacy. I am pretty certain that his wife has more vested in this series than anyone else, and is more concerned with the legacy of her husband than anyone else who has touched this series. She has approved everything coming out of this. As RJ's editor and personal confidant, and lover for years, I am pretty sure she knows a bit more about this process than any other person involved. She knows what was left, and she knows his wishes. In fact, it is likely she knows his dying wishes. We're reading because she approves.

[Suttree]

Actually, what I find interesting is that far too many of these people "critiquing" BS, are the same ones that were defending RJ over aPoD through Cot and continue to do so even now. Hell, it's being done in the same breath as "critiquing" BS half the time heh.

That kinda of thing tends to leave a sour taste in ones mouth.

I think a lot of people find this pretty hypocritical and that tends to make a large part of what's being said, not all of it, but a good part of it to come off as being anything but impartial.

I do understand it though. We had a level of trust with RJ, that he would right the ship and we don't have that level of trust in BS.

 

Hmm, wondering who those people are Finnssss? As you recall things got ugly back around CoT with the "lost control" arguments going back and forth. Every person I take seriously with their views here had very open discussion on RJ's faults back in the day. It's not as if he was held up as infallible.

 

As I have mentioned for me it comes down to polished prose and that making people more likely to gloss over faults. Although something like TPoD had very real issues the Damona Campaign for example holds some of the best writing in the series. You don't have the jags with uneven quality that you see in say ToM.

[Finnssss22]

Actually, what I find interesting is that far too many of these people "critiquing" BS, are the same ones that were defending RJ over aPoD through Cot and continue to do so even now. Hell, it's being done in the same breath as "critiquing" BS half the time heh.

That kinda of thing tends to leave a sour taste in ones mouth.

I think a lot of people find this pretty hypocritical and that tends to make a large part of what's being said, not all of it, but a good part of it to come off as being anything but impartial.

I do understand it though. We had a level of trust with RJ, that he would right the ship and we don't have that level of trust in BS.

 

Hmm, wondering who those people are Finnssss? As you recall things got ugly back around CoT with the "lost control" arguments going back and forth. Every person I take seriously with their views here had very open discussion on RJ's faults back in the day. It's not as if he was held up as infallible.

 

As I have mentioned for me it comes down to polished prose and that making people more likely to gloss over faults. Although something like TPoD had very real issues the Damona Campaign for example holds some of the best writing in the series. You don't have the jags with uneven quality that you see in say ToM.

 

I rest my case.

[skalors3]

Actually, what I find interesting is that far too many of these people "critiquing" BS, are the same ones that were defending RJ over aPoD through Cot and continue to do so even now. Hell, it's being done in the same breath as "critiquing" BS half the time heh.

That kinda of thing tends to leave a sour taste in ones mouth.

I think a lot of people find this pretty hypocritical and that tends to make a large part of what's being said, not all of it, but a good part of it to come off as being anything but impartial.

I do understand it though. We had a level of trust with RJ, that he would right the ship and we don't have that level of trust in BS.

 

Hmm, wondering who those people are Finnssss? As you recall things got ugly back around CoT with the "lost control" arguments going back and forth. Every person I take seriously with their views here had very open discussion on RJ's faults back in the day. It's not as if he was held up as infallible.

 

As I have mentioned for me it comes down to polished prose and that making people more likely to gloss over faults. Although something like TPoD had very real issues the Damona Campaign for example holds some of the best writing in the series. You don't have the jags with uneven quality that you see in say ToM.

 

I rest my case.

 

LOL

[Suttree]

Actually, what I find interesting is that far too many of these people "critiquing" BS, are the same ones that were defending RJ over aPoD through Cot and continue to do so even now. Hell, it's being done in the same breath as "critiquing" BS half the time heh.

That kinda of thing tends to leave a sour taste in ones mouth.

I think a lot of people find this pretty hypocritical and that tends to make a large part of what's being said, not all of it, but a good part of it to come off as being anything but impartial.

I do understand it though. We had a level of trust with RJ, that he would right the ship and we don't have that level of trust in BS.

 

Hmm, wondering who those people are Finnssss? As you recall things got ugly back around CoT with the "lost control" arguments going back and forth. Every person I take seriously with their views here had very open discussion on RJ's faults back in the day. It's not as if he was held up as infallible.

 

As I have mentioned for me it comes down to polished prose and that making people more likely to gloss over faults. Although something like TPoD had very real issues the Damona Campaign for example holds some of the best writing in the series. You don't have the jags with uneven quality that you see in say ToM.

 

I rest my case.

 

Calling out one sequence of a flawed book and pointing out the difference in prose is hardly what you mention. You know better than that and I wish you could debate this in an honest fashion. You just totally ignored the main point to give a flippant(and innacurate) response.

[skalors3]

Actually, what I find interesting is that far too many of these people "critiquing" BS, are the same ones that were defending RJ over aPoD through Cot and continue to do so even now. Hell, it's being done in the same breath as "critiquing" BS half the time heh.

That kinda of thing tends to leave a sour taste in ones mouth.

I think a lot of people find this pretty hypocritical and that tends to make a large part of what's being said, not all of it, but a good part of it to come off as being anything but impartial.

I do understand it though. We had a level of trust with RJ, that he would right the ship and we don't have that level of trust in BS.

 

Hmm, wondering who those people are Finnssss? As you recall things got ugly back around CoT with the "lost control" arguments going back and forth. Every person I take seriously with their views here had very open discussion on RJ's faults back in the day. It's not as if he was held up as infallible.

 

As I have mentioned for me it comes down to polished prose and that making people more likely to gloss over faults. Although something like TPoD had very real issues the Damona Campaign for example holds some of the best writing in the series. You don't have the jags with uneven quality that you see in say ToM.

 

I rest my case.

 

Calling out one sequence of a flawed book and pointing out the difference in prose is hardly what you mention. You know better than that and I wish you could debate this in an honest fashion. You just totally ignored the main point to give a flippant(and innacurate) response.

 

I think he definitely drives the point home Suttree. You, in fact, did exactly what he suggested was occurring.

 

You are under the impression that to have pseudo-intelligent discourse about a subject makes you scholars, thereby justifying what is being said. I believe the subject matter of this post suggests ignorance at its finest.