Dark Prophecy from ToM

[Stitch]

Rand - sure he knows death and will know it again, he even know the guy who calls himself death and his death would certainly throw everyone into a panic; he is prophesied to bleed elsewhere however and while the wolves have a name for him, he himself is hardly a wolf nor truly associated with such.

 

Lan - not seeing this at all

 

Perrin - a wolf huh? well so far we havent seen anything broken... however should he have a great injury or mental breakdown or something (goes all furry) then maybe we might see this happening; he hasnt known death as such, however he has met Ishy in his dreams.

 

Ituralde - the name sounds okay, perhaps if his armies were broken at the towers this might lead to such a situation of despair, but where is the being known by death? maybe it refers to his strategy getting seen through.

 

Hopper - this one is a significant possibility as far as i am concerned, he has died twice (once by the hand of one who later called himself death) and he is probably far from unharmed by the experience. How he might manifest himself after his death is unclear.... perhaps being spun out by the pattern/horn or perhaps he will be revived by the DO.... dont know

 

Bashere - another one with armies, but im not getting the wolf connection at all

 

Boundless/Noam - possibly but has he been known by death? Not seeing this happening unless maybe he gets killed then goes to Tar like the wolves.

 

Slayer - eh I dont by this one, sure he has much in him that seems to be a strange echo of the wolves, perhaps we might see him leading darkhounds, if so then I am likely to see this as being a possibility, otherwise no. What business did he have with the snakes and wolves?

 

Elyas - broken wolf huh? well im not really sure what is broken about him, as for death, I would class it the same as Boundless

[Mats Spare Hat]

What do we know about wolves: Wolves remember every life they have lived.

 

What's new about Rand, that makes him like a wolf: He, now, remembers every life he's ever lived (veins of gold).

 

Stands to be a fair association between Rand & Wolves.

 

What do we know about Rand/The Dragon & Ishamael/Moridin: They've faced each other over, and over, and over again...cosmically they know each other. Whether you want to take that as "knowing death", or if you'd like to notice that Rand's present incarnation is the rebirth of his soul, whose form had previously died as LTT - that's okay too. He's known somebody who refers to themselves as Death(Mori), and he's also known death, in that he died without fulfilling his purpose in the form of LTT...

 

That being said, we also know Prophesy is what "might" happen, it's not absolute, whether it's spouted from the Dark or the Light.

 

The Broken Wolf = Rand.

[Stitch]

Actually we dont know what the veins of gold are, they are just as likely to be something Rand did to himself (unlikely since Nyn probably couldnt see it) or else his strange improvised multi-bonding; what we do know is that it somehow is keeping at least the symptoms of madness that would inhibit a high functioning 'rand sedai' (who is quite possibly still insane) at bay and that it is unlikely that the other Ashaman that Nyn treated had similar (something would have been written).

 

We also know that Rand at least believes (and is probably correct) that he has the (majority of?) memories from LTT's life, was LTT Rand's ONLY previous incarnation? We dont know. However that is the ONLY life from which we are told he has any memories; as opposed to wolves who remember the memories of all their kind (or at least the shape thereof)...

[Mats Spare Hat]

Actually we dont know what the veins of gold are, they are just as likely to be something Rand did to himself (unlikely since Nyn probably couldnt see it) or else his strange improvised multi-bonding; what we do know is that it somehow is keeping at least the symptoms of madness that would inhibit a high functioning 'rand sedai' (who is quite possibly still insane) at bay and that it is unlikely that the other Ashaman that Nyn treated had similar (something would have been written).

 

We also know that Rand at least believes (and is probably correct) that he has the (majority of?) memories from LTT's life, was LTT Rand's ONLY previous incarnation? We dont know. However that is the ONLY life from which we are told he has any memories; as opposed to wolves who remember the memories of all their kind (or at least the shape thereof)...

 

 

Dude, I meant the chapter, Veins of Gold, in TGS, page 759 in the hardcover...

 

*rolls eyes

[Stitch]

hahahah ^.^;; of cooooourse *cough*

 

<_< Im going over there now >_> *points into the distance*

[Terez]

That being said, we also know Prophesy is what "might" happen, it's not absolute, whether it's spouted from the Dark or the Light.

It's pretty much absolute, the exceptions being Dreams (which only show possibilities and can be prevented) and prophecies given since the Pattern started unraveling. Aside from that, all prophecies are absolute unless the Pattern is destroyed completely.

 

Check out the prophecy page in the database; there are some new Brandon quotes.

[Mats Spare Hat]

That being said, we also know Prophesy is what "might" happen, it's not absolute, whether it's spouted from the Dark or the Light.

It's pretty much absolute, the exceptions being Dreams (which only show possibilities and can be prevented) and prophecies given since the Pattern started unraveling. Aside from that, all prophecies are absolute unless the Pattern is destroyed completely.

 

Check out the prophecy page in the database; there are some new Brandon quotes.

 

 

Woop, my bad

[WhiskyJack]

If Rand is Broken Wolf, is he going down twice according to Shadow? First time might not be actual death but if he is 'consumed" by Midnight Towers and yet return to fight another day, the whole going down thing seems a bit redundant. Also Midnight Towers and Lord of Evening will be one and the same if Moridin is Lord of the evening. Double take down?

[Sharaman]

First Among Vermin. Broken Wolf, Fallen Blacksmith, Lord of the Evening - the four characters who cannot be id-ed for certain.

Fallen Blacksmith most likely to be Perrin, of course.

In that case, Perrin and Mat (One-eyed Fool) already mentioned once each.

FaV == The GLoD likes vermin - so would he refer to LTT/ Rand as vermin? If it's not Rand/ LTT (First among Servants), it would have to be the Naeblis.

Lord of the Evening = if this isn't an obscure reference to the GLoD, it should be the Naeblis (opposed to Lord of the Morning)

In that case, FaV should be Rand/ LTT

Then, assuming that everyone except GLoD is only mentioned once, Broken Wolf is either Slayer, Elyas, Ituralde.

"Known Death" fits Slayer - one lived and one died. But why would anybody care if he popped it?

Ituralde's destruction might, in itself, cause some despair and consternation

In Slayer's case the manner of the destruction has to be hugely spectacular and scary since the individual concerned is pretty much unknown.

Maybe it's reflected in the sky ala Falme or SLayer morphs into weirdness turning into two people as he dies.

[clu7ch]

So here's my thing. It's just my opinion, so don't murder me plz Terez :)

It absolutely can't be rand, because I think it would be rather ummmm, useless to mention someone twice in the same prophecy under different names, I even think there's a distinction between first among vermin and broken champion, one referring to Lews Therin, and one to Rand.

 

Here's the way I look at the broken wolf business. We start with 'whom death has known' and I am lead to believe that this is a play on Moridin, like several others have thought. When it gets to the part about being consumed by the midnight towers, I again, as well as others, thing that refers to the Forsaken, but i don't look at consumed in the traditional sense. I think of consumed as overtaken, maybe forcibly converted. Destruction i look at similarly, as a fall from grace, rather than a means of death. I Certainly think that there are others who's 4th quarter conversion to the dark side could cause fear and sorrow, and definitely destroy the will of the people.

 

So, the reason for my selecting other? Is that I believe our Broken Wolf is Taim. The only flaw in my plan is a big one, that i can't link him to the wolf bit, but then again, maybe someone else can help me with my theory. Other than that, lets break it down for supporting evidence. He's been widely speculated to have been tutored by Ishamael, which gives us our 'Death has known' because while Taim might not recognize Moridin, Moridin, via Ishy would know him. He's clearly now a darkfriend in my opinion, or a non-specific bad person, which could have been resultant of a 13/13 conversion ordered by the Forsaken (even in the past, this prophecy doesn't relate specifically to a finite instant in time) Taim's fall from grace would also be capable of causing fear and sorrow to the people of Randland, because we already know he is one of the most dangerous channelers around, and his running amok could be devastating.

[SheaththeSword]

What do we know about wolves: Wolves remember every life they have lived.

What's new about Rand, that makes him like a wolf: He, now, remembers every life he's ever lived (veins of gold).

Stands to be a fair association between Rand & Wolves.

[...]

The Broken Wolf = Rand.

The first part could be applied to Mat, in sofar as he remembers the lives of many warriors/soldiers.

 

Mat is an extremely adept fighter, he even killed (almost) the gholam. Dangerous to fight, like a wolf.

(The gholam thing also demonstrates his sharp intelligence and the use of the pack to hunt. Like a wolf.)

 

He has died.

 

A one-eyed wolf would be considered fairly crippled. Or Broken.

 

His men feel lucky going to battle for him, Birgitte enjoys his raucous company, he is possibly the best general in Randland atm due to his experience, his forces have alot of control over the steel dragons (assuming the trollocs are defeated in camelyne) - many will weep at his passing.

 

On the other side, I can't see prophesy mixing up a man wearing a fox-head medallion with a wolf. Foxes are quite crafty in fairy-tales, I think of Mat more as a fox. Wolves would likely kill foxes in the wild.

 

All in all, I'd still like to vote for Mat.

[Leyrann]

First, "Death" is with a CAPITAL, so it has to be Moridin, or a bad translation from the Old Tongue (every noun with a capital, IIRC). IIRNC (If I Remember Not Correctly) it can only be Moridin. Not just dying. Lets have a look to all (I like to be sure. I haven't chosen with one it is yet).

 

Rand - Already mentioned as Broken Champion/First of Vermin (whatever you prefer). Not likely.

Lan - Why should his destruction "bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and break their very will"?

Perrin - The one I thought of when I first read the Prophecy.

Ituralde - Same as Lan.

Hopper - If "to bring sorrow to the hearts of men" means just two people (Perrin and Elyas), maybe. I don't think so. And I think the Midnight Towers are the Forsaken. Somewhere else I explained why IIRC (sorry, I'm doing too much to remember everything. I have at least thought about it).

Bashere - Same as Lan and Ituralde.

Boundless/Noam - Same as Hopper.

Slayer - Likely about "he has known Death", but not for the other things. People would be happy if he died (except for Darkfriends).

Elyas - Very unknown, so also not likely. His destruction (if it means death) would break (maybe) the will of one person: Rina Hafden, his Aes Sedai.

 

So I think it is either Perrin, or someone else. I don't say who, but I'm going to vote "Other".

[Dashaan Vorsharn (MK_Kupa)]

In that day, when the One-Eyed fool travels the halls of mourning, and the First Among Vermim lifts his hand to being freedom to Him who will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith Pride shall come.

 

I was missleaded by this inisialy becasue i listened to the audobook before reading it and i confused mourning for morning. The One-Eyes fool is obviously Mat. Imo in a aMol, Mat will suffer a great loss mabey the death of Olver (he was left in a very sticky situation) Either way something most likely casues Mat a great emotional pain.

 

The First Among Vermin is either Fain or Rand. Rand more likely becasue he said he would break the final seals on the boar. This also gives explanation to why Moradin and the DO need rand alive.

 

The Fallen Blacksmith. I am 98% sure that is Perrin. but why would would this bring about his final days. That passage dose not make as much sence if the Fallen Blacksmith and the Broken Wolf are not the same person.

 

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whome Death(implying a person by capital letter) has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his distruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

 

At no point that i can see dose it say the Broken Wolf will Die only that he will be destroyed this is in it's self allot more vauge. This is only a extract of the Shadow prophesy as well so we are only gettting half of a allready shadowy explanation. I thought Hopper first becasue he had known death in allready dieing and by being dead allready he would be a Broken Wolf, i later dismissed this becasue why would he be consuemed by the Midnight Towers or his distruction bring so much sorrow.

 

I beleave this has something to do with the Seanchan as well Towers of Midnight, Midnight Towers it's a coincidence you can't really ignore. and why would the seanchan consume Perrin/The Broken Wolf when Perrin had previously made a pact with them. That is all i could thathom out of it. It's so vauge it's painfull and it only makes the wait for aMoL even worse.

[FarShainMael]

Hi Dashaan - may I ask, do you have dyslexia? I mention that to remind other forum users.

 

I agree with most of what you say. But it's possible that 'his destruction' may mean destruction caused by him rather than destruction of him. If the latter, then yes, it doesn't necessarily mean he dies: Mesaana is not dead, but is described in the glossary as destroyed.

 

(Oops. Edited for spelling.. )

[Dashaan Vorsharn (MK_Kupa)]

Hi Dashaan - may I ask, do you have dyslexia? I mention that to remind other forum users.

 

I agree with most of what you say. But it's possible that 'his destruction' may mean destruation caused by him rather than destruction of him. If the latter, then yes, it doesn't necessarily mean he dies: Mesaana is not dead, but is described in the glossary as destroyed.

 

My appologys on spelling and such. I'm not dislexic but i have a mild learning dificulty that affects writing. Normaly I have a spellcheck but I can't figure out how to put it on Firefox.

 

Indeed, But from what i can tell for TGH is that Shadow Prophesy and Light Prophsy both come true. So from this extract we know that the Dark One will definatly be out of his prison at least for a short time.

 

But if it is Perrin then i can't think of anyhthing that he could do, Ta'veran or not, that would cause such destruction unless he has a mess up of monumental proportions.

[FarShainMael]

Hi Dashaan - may I ask, do you have dyslexia? I mention that to remind other forum users.

 

I agree with most of what you say. But it's possible that 'his destruction' may mean destruation caused by him rather than destruction of him. If the latter, then yes, it doesn't necessarily mean he dies: Mesaana is not dead, but is described in the glossary as destroyed.

 

My appologys on spelling and such. I'm not dislexic but i have a mild learning dificulty that affects writing. Normaly I have a spellcheck but I can't figure out how to put it on Firefox.

 

You have my sympathy! I don't use Firefox myself but perhaps another forum user could help.

 

Indeed, But from what i can tell for TGH is that Shadow Prophesy and Light Prophsy both come true. So from this extract we know that the Dark One will definatly be out of his prison at least for a short time.

 

I think you may be right...

 

But if it is Perrin then i can't think of anyhthing that he could do, Ta'veran or not, that would cause such destruction unless he has a mess up of monumental proportions.

 

Have a look at my post about this on the first page, it's post #5.

[Dream]

...

But if it is Perrin then i can't think of anyhthing that he could do, Ta'veran or not, that would cause such destruction unless he has a mess up of monumental proportions.

Faile could die (last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride). Perrin repeatedly states he would do anything for Faile--which would include turning to the Shadow (fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers). Perrin leading an army of Shadowspawn (including Darkhounds) would be pretty destructive.

[Entreri]

It is either Rand or Perrin. My vote goes to Rand.

 

Only the death of DR or possibly the 2 other ta'avern would that kind of impact on the Light.

 

IMO, the Forsaken, via Lanfear are setting up a trap for Rand and Perrin has to be there once again. Near the end of ToM, Perrin states that Rand needs him.

 

According to Min, Perrin has to stay near Rand unless doom and gloom ensues (once was in LoC, think of the US debt default).

 

Midnight Towers = Forsaken. "Shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers".

 

 

This trap is likely in TAR, Lanfear does contact Rand through his dreams at the end of ToM. Thus, Perrin will be of immense help. We can probably expect not only Lanfear, but Moghdien and likely Slayer for said confrontation.

 

Various prophecies on Rand:

 

"To live you must die".

 

"Twice to live, twice to die".

 

 

Outside of TAR, LTT is far too formidable for the likes of regular Forsaken (unless taken by complete surprise, even then, if ToM is any indication, he can break through essentially any shield if captured), he even humiliated pre-TP Ishamael in AoL. Likely this new Rand/LTT has moved beyond his AoL capabilities, he will need them when he faces Moridin and possibly the likes of Super Fain and Super Fade.

 

However, in TAR, channeling abilities can actually be a detriment, as shown by Perrin to Egwene. We know that Slayer rules TAR, Moghdien and Lanfear are the greatest Forsaken in TAR. I believe a final trap (death of the DR) is being set up now that Shai'tan knows the DR will never turn to the Dark Side of the Force. It is very unlikely that LTT is as proficient in TAR as Moghdien or Lanfear, let alone the King of TAR/Slayer.

[Apotheosis]

Didn't Ituralde get called the Little Wolf in the the prologue of one of the books? Could he not be the Broken Wolf? If the Forsaken took him, I'd say that it could be pretty catastrophic for the Light to have one of their Great Captains fighting against them, no?

 

*edited for spelling

[mackoY-kun]

ToM,Epilogue

 

In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning,8 and

the First Among Vermin9 lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who

will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come.

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and

be consumed by the Midnight Towers.10 And his destruction shall bring

fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

 

 

If this thread is talking about this "Broken Wolf", that's Jain Farstrider. Ishi "broke" him, and such. And he died in the "Midnight Towers" in the Tower of the Elves, err... Aelfinn and Eelfinn. (sorry if the spelling is wrong)

 

If you will analyze the paragraph, it Jumps from subject to subject.

One-Eyed Fool - Mat

First Among Vermin - First Among the Servants (the Dragon, a.k.a. the Dragon Reborn)

Him who will Destroy - Dark One

Fallen Blacksmith - Perrin

Broken Wolf - Noal Charin (Jain Farstider)

 

the Fist Part probably means mat in the Aelfinn Land, the "Halls of mourning".

the second of rand freeing the dark one by destroying the seals.

the third about perrin's pride with the happenings with children of the light.

and the fourth and last of Jain dying in the Aelfinn Land.

[Clayden69]

the last line of the prophecy says "his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself" this refers to the Broken Wolf. I don't see how Jain Farstriders death will bring "fear and sorrow..."

[mackoY-kun]

"destruction" doesn't necessarily mean death. I'm thinking that "His destruction" means the destruction of his images as Jain Farstider, and fans of his book "Jain Farstider's Travels" will be the ones affected by this.

[Louise]

The Glossary in ToM:

 

Towers of Midnight, the: Thirteen fortresses of unpolished black marble located in Imfaral, Seanchan. At the time of the Consolidation of Seanchan, it was the center of military might...... Legend has it that in time of dire need, the Imperial family will return to the Towers of Midnight and 'right that which s wrong.'

 

There are too many mentions of Towers of Midnight/Midnight Towers for this not to be extremely important.

 

This Shadow Prophecy simply wrecks my head. Too many ifs and buts and maybes.

Though in my opinion we're missing something with the First among Vermin thing. Idoubt it's Rand, as he has to be the Broken Champion. Also, I was initially inclined to think that Lord of the Evening was Moridin (the whole oposite to Lord of Morning thing,) but the last paragraph of that prophecy seems to refer more to the DO. 'Our souls shall bow before Him...our flesh shall serve Him, only Him will we praise' etc. The way 'Him' is written with a capital letter, the implications of utter servitude... sure, Moridi is pretty high up on the food chain BUT I doubt the extremity of the passage refers to him.

[mackoY-kun]

I just thought of something new for this;

 

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and

be consumed by the Midnight Towers.10 And his destruction shall bring

fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

 

If indeed the "Midnight Towers" mean, the "Towers of Midnight" in Imfaral in Seanchan, then this might refer to Mat, cause he's the only one that "Death has Known", cause he's the only one that has died at least ones. And that this will happen much much later when he goes to Seanchan. (RJ had implied that he would write about Mat and Tuon/Fortuona after TG.)

[Louise]

I thought that too, it certainly makes sense and fits better than most of the other gusses (except for the wolf part.). However after much deliberation, I decided to stick with the fact that I doubt that prophecy refers to a person by two seperate names. Mat has to be the One Eyed fool.