Opening a Gateway on top of Cuendillar

[Solmyr]

I'm probably not the first person to wonder about that, and perhaps it has been answered somewhere, but I couldn't dig it out. So if it has been discussed before, could anyone brief me on what the board thinks about what would happen if a Gateway is opened on top of Cuendillar. The edges of a Gateway slice through anything and it makes sense, otherwise the Gateway would either be displaced or the something in the way would stick through the Gateway. I remember it was discussed in the books that if two Gateways were opened on the same spot at the exact same time, they would displace only enough to allow each to open equally close, without any space in between. Would the same happen with Cuendillar in the way? Would it actually displace a Gateway? Or would it try to cut through the Cuendillar and possibly fail?

[Barid Bel Medar]

The Cuendillar would be pushed away, according to RJ.

 

INTERVIEW: Jan 16th, 2003

COT Signing Report - Michael Martin

 

MICHAEL MARTIN

 

What happens to a piece of heartstone if a gateway is opened across it?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

Heartstone is pushed aside, gateway remains intact. (He appeared fairly amused by this one.)

 

 

[Durinax]

well cuendillar seems to have some weave absorbing properties, so it could just be a gateway fail due to absorbtion

[Solmyr]

Interesting, thanks for info BBM. Cuendillar being displaced raises some interesting side-questions - like what would happen if the Cuendillar to be displaced is, for example, the chain on Tar Valon's harbour?

 

Or if two Gateways were opened at the same time in such a way that they would have to displace a single piece of Cuendillar in opposite directions?

[jsbrads]

Harbor chain is easy, it displaces the chain. the towers are merely stone and would crumble quiet readily.

 

I like the double gateway, but prefer the same question with one gateway, but perfectly centered on cuellindar disc so push equally from the center and I'm gonna guess the gateway will fail.

recall one forsaken visit another and dial the destination via gateway but ring a bell before opening the gateway? well if I made a connection centered on a symetric cuellindar object, I can establish a gateway, but then the opening would require seperating cuellindar material and it would be resisted.

[Whizbang]

I would guess no channeler has the preciseness to hit the EXACT center of an object. Egwene states at some point that no one can weave so fine as to remove honey from Tea. This means that they cannot go to the molecular level. And even if they could, what happens if there is an odd number of molecules? With an even number, you just slide the gateway between them and they spread apart, but with odd, you're going to have to split the molecule, and maybe even the atoms (and we all know what happens when you split atoms).

 

So, without hitting the exact center, the object would slide one direction or another.

[Moxyll]

If we're trying to come up with a situation that would force a new answer, the easiest is opening a gateway inside a cuendillar cup. Equal forces on both sides of the cup, but the cup unable to be cut, something would have to give.

[Kamin_Majere]

Well since things can be moved in 3 dimensions the cup would probably just sink into the ground of something. The object doesn't simply have to move to the side it could move up or down or front or back or even at angles.

 

About the only Unstoppable force/immovable object situation would be a sphere of cuendillar that is smaller than the gateway would be... then it's anyone's guess, but I suspect that the weave simply wouldn't form instead of some weird catastrophe

[MasterAblar]

The Cuendillar would be pushed away, according to RJ.

 

INTERVIEW: Jan 16th, 2003

COT Signing Report - Michael Martin

 

MICHAEL MARTIN

 

What happens to a piece of heartstone if a gateway is opened across it?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

Heartstone is pushed aside, gateway remains intact. (He appeared fairly amused by this one.)

 

 

 

I wonder if he made that up on the spot, or if he had thought of it already.

[Amandera]

I was wondering the same thing. I'm more inclined to go with the latter.

[jsbrads]

it should be clear we all seem to accept that if you can position so that it can't be pushed away cuellidar would win.

 

RJ seems to be talking about widening sides contact cuellindar, then it doesn't cut even though it is infinitely sharp

[Amandera]

If the cuendillar could not be pushed, the gateway would probably be the one to move. As in the case of two gateways opening in the same position.

[Orderofolde]

I'm probably not the first person to wonder about that, and perhaps it has been answered somewhere, but I couldn't dig it out. So if it has been discussed before, could anyone brief me on what the board thinks about what would happen if a Gateway is opened on top of Cuendillar. The edges of a Gateway slice through anything and it makes sense, otherwise the Gateway would either be displaced or the something in the way would stick through the Gateway. I remember it was discussed in the books that if two Gateways were opened on the same spot at the exact same time, they would displace only enough to allow each to open equally close, without any space in between. Would the same happen with Cuendillar in the way? Would it actually displace a Gateway? Or would it try to cut through the Cuendillar and possibly fail?

That would be interesting, but would not explain Whitebridge. Something so massive and fixed in place can't simply be "pushed aside" could it? I wonder if it would require extra strength to for the gateway, and probably someone opening a few gateways could move the bridge until it falls.

[James Andrew Powell]

Jumping back to an earlier post. Egwene with the removal of honey from tea. I belive it states in the books at some point (and I could be wrong) that the abliity to channel isn't limited by the source but by peoples own perceptions. If that is the case. Then the ability to work with things at the molecular or atomic level, (assuming that the laws of physics apply within the WoT universe) is not dictated by peoples ability but by there preconceived notions on what they can and cannot effect. And on that note. Technically the creation of Cuendillar if an act of at the least molecular manipulation. As they are changing an object made of pure iron to another substence entierly. I think the effect of gateways on Cuendillar is paradoxical at best. The immovable object versus the irrasistable force.

[Vardar]

I'm probably not the first person to wonder about that, and perhaps it has been answered somewhere, but I couldn't dig it out. So if it has been discussed before, could anyone brief me on what the board thinks about what would happen if a Gateway is opened on top of Cuendillar. The edges of a Gateway slice through anything and it makes sense, otherwise the Gateway would either be displaced or the something in the way would stick through the Gateway. I remember it was discussed in the books that if two Gateways were opened on the same spot at the exact same time, they would displace only enough to allow each to open equally close, without any space in between. Would the same happen with Cuendillar in the way? Would it actually displace a Gateway? Or would it try to cut through the Cuendillar and possibly fail?

That would be interesting, but would not explain Whitebridge. Something so massive and fixed in place can't simply be "pushed aside" could it? I wonder if it would require extra strength to for the gateway, and probably someone opening a few gateways could move the bridge until it falls.

 

Do we know what whitebridge is made of?

 

That being said yes I think the best explaination is the gateway would move. In a situation where it couldn't, it wouldn't form.

[00Pepper]

I'm probably not the first person to wonder about that, and perhaps it has been answered somewhere, but I couldn't dig it out. So if it has been discussed before, could anyone brief me on what the board thinks about what would happen if a Gateway is opened on top of Cuendillar. The edges of a Gateway slice through anything and it makes sense, otherwise the Gateway would either be displaced or the something in the way would stick through the Gateway. I remember it was discussed in the books that if two Gateways were opened on the same spot at the exact same time, they would displace only enough to allow each to open equally close, without any space in between. Would the same happen with Cuendillar in the way? Would it actually displace a Gateway? Or would it try to cut through the Cuendillar and possibly fail?

That would be interesting, but would not explain Whitebridge. Something so massive and fixed in place can't simply be "pushed aside" could it? I wonder if it would require extra strength to for the gateway, and probably someone opening a few gateways could move the bridge until it falls.

 

Do we know what whitebridge is made of?

 

That being said yes I think the best explaination is the gateway would move. In a situation where it couldn't, it wouldn't form.

 

I thought i had read Whitebridge was made of heartstone.

 

I love topics like this.

[Guest jamcdonald120]

Slightly differnt question but similar: what would happen if a gateway was opened and a spool of Cuendillar was inserted half way in to the gatway and then the gatway was closed on it.  would that hold the gateway open or cut the Cuendillar?  What if the spool had an tunnel through it?  Would that allow a gate way to remain open indefinitly while not maintained but still useable?  And if the Cuendillar forced the gatway open to sip out, what if it was a hollow torus that was built around the gateway before being turned in to Cuendillar, then the gate way would either cut the cuendillar or be hold open in a eternal gate way.

[mb]

about Whitebridge, I originally thought it was cuendillar; but after I asked about it in another thread, someone told me it was spun-glass.

Not sure what the reaction would be with spun-glass and a gateway.

 

about the precision of gateways, the scene is in Crown of Swords chapter 12.

[EmperorAllspice]

I don't think gateways were described as having a particular force behind them

 

so for all we know, if one were to open a gateway to the side of whitebridge, it really might have the power behind it to shunt the whole bridge sideways and cause it to collapse, causing untold collateral damage.

 

Actually I'd love to see that, it would look absurd

[wotfan4472]

As for manipulation of molecules in the WoT by the One Power..... Androl can manipulate gateways of any size!! Would he be able to remove the honey from the tea??

[mb]

About putting cuendillar part way through a Gateway then letting the Gateway disipate; I would guess the Gateway would stay open till the cuendillar is pushed/pulled/etc to either end.

[Sabio]

Rand thought when he made the skimming platform for the aiel to go after Rhavin, he tried makng the skimming platform larger but discovered that he couldn't make it much larger from when he originally had made it.  He wondered if that was because this was as big as he could make it or because it was now limited to it current size because that's how big he made it originally.  That had it made it larger initially it could of been a larger platform.  So I think it is true that many of the limits have come from that's the limits people have set on themselves.  It sounds like the AOL was all about pushing limits and the refusal to accept limits.    I think that is when you would of seen molecule manipulation.