Which main character should die (if any)?

[MarkDiLillo]

I think Min will die, because the LTT-voice added her to Rand's 'list'.

 

Forgot about this - good call. That can certainly be seen as very strong foreshadowing.

[driedraspberry]

Speaking of HotH I'll be shocked if someone we know doesn't turn up when the horn blows post death. Rhuarc? Maybe even Logain post glory...although he is just about the only one I'm praying lives.

 

I think the Rand/Min situation is a difficult one. My thought is if he stays dead she'll be heart broken, but I don't see a reason for her not to live. She'll take up a place in one of Rand's schools and study philosophy. And it's not like she can't visit him in TAR via ring.

[herid]

Strongest indication that I believe Rand wont survive the ending is the quote about him that was used during RJs funeral. I feel like that quote, which is yet unused, is going to be very near the end to string together and make everyone feel good about Rand being gone.

sorry, but what was the quote?

There is one out of book quote by Harriet that strongly suggests that rand might die (it might be the same one you are talking about).

 

 

Harriet McDougal Rigney

 

 

He came like the wind, like the wind touched everything, and like the wind was gone.

These are words Jim said to me several books ago, in the weary but always thrilling hours of putting the manuscript to bed, ready to carry to New York in the morning—I remember grabbing a piece of discarded script and scrawling those words up the margin, because they were so beautiful. He was talking about Rand. I of course am not.

I know he touched all of you. Thanks for being there.

 

 

This pretty much assures that either Rand dies (in which case Min dies for certain as well) or, possibly but less likely, he goes off somewhere (and Min goes with him).

[thisguy]

I think Min will die, because the LTT-voice added her to Rand's 'list'.

Good call!

[The Fisher King]

I have been predicting for a long time that NONE of the original core majxor characters will die and STAY dead. Its just not WOT. Rand might "die" and be resurrected. People THOUGHT Morgase was dead (not that I consider her major). I don't see any major characters in WOT dying and being "really" dead - and staying dead. WOT just is not that kind of series.

 

 

Fish

[MarkDiLillo]

Strongest indication that I believe Rand wont survive the ending is the quote about him that was used during RJs funeral. I feel like that quote, which is yet unused, is going to be very near the end to string together and make everyone feel good about Rand being gone.

sorry, but what was the quote?

There is one out of book quote by Harriet that strongly suggests that rand might die (it might be the same one you are talking about).

 

 

Harriet McDougal Rigney

 

 

He came like the wind, like the wind touched everything, and like the wind was gone.

These are words Jim said to me several books ago, in the weary but always thrilling hours of putting the manuscript to bed, ready to carry to New York in the morning—I remember grabbing a piece of discarded script and scrawling those words up the margin, because they were so beautiful. He was talking about Rand. I of course am not.

I know he touched all of you. Thanks for being there.

 

 

This pretty much assures that either Rand dies (in which case Min dies for certain as well) or, possibly but less likely, he goes off somewhere (and Min goes with him).

 

yep thats the one. the entire story is about Rand saving the world. hes a goner at the end, but its going to be written in such a way that it wont leave us with a bad taste in our mouth.

[BFG]

I voted Eg, mostly because of Jasons letter, (partly because it's a 2 for 1 deal :) )

 

I think Min will die, because the LTT-voice added her to Rand's 'list'.

 

I'd forgotten about that, good catch, but I hope you're wrong :)

 

Min.

 

I just dont see a way to write a happy ending for her that fits well without being super cheesy. If she goes away with Rand at the end she faces the aging problem. If she stays with Rand and the girls she runs into that problem again. If Rand dies and she lives then she has nothing left and no way to write a happy ending.

 

It will be tough to fit her in without dying IMO.

 

Although I think you may be right because of FSMs post above, I disagree on principal with the reasoning. Yes if they all survive, Min will get old and few of the others will, but that doesn't mean that the time they'd have would be worthless - they're a similar age now, so similar maturities, they get along well, love each other - surely that counts for something? If he dies then why would her life mean nothing, she'll be heartbroken to begin with as will Elayne and Avi, but that's not everything. There are millions of people in Randland that don't have 'power' in their societies, are their lives going to be meaningless as well?

[The Fisher King]

So all those kids (the buns in Avi and Elayne's ovens, I mean) grow up without a father? No chance. Rj didn't work that way.

 

Imo there has been only one really well done permanent death scene of a character we knew remotely anything about and it was way back in the second book with Dena.

 

 

Fish

[driedraspberry]

So all those kids (the buns in Avi and Elayne's ovens, I mean) grow up without a father? No chance. Rj didn't work that way.

 

Imo there has been only one really well done permanent death scene of a character we knew remotely anything about and it was way back in the second book with Dena.

 

 

Fish

 

Hmm grandpa Tam could step up. And when they're old enough they can visit Rand in TAR. They're super kids, Rand will just overshadow them. ;)

 

Foreshadowing to Min's death is there, along with her not being able to tell if she'll have Rand's bbs. Still, I think the scholar aspect of her character has future implications beyond the bore (I'm on team Moiraine for answers there). Otherwise, Rand could've just added Fel to his traveling posse.

[Elisaroth]

Well i looked choices above and

perrin/faile cant die. Because aviendha future vision where her grand-child hands over plans of contingency to attack Caemlyn,Tear,Charien,illian and two rivers. you dont need contingency plans to scatter farmers in village. Two river high lord deal is bound by abara family line if i got right deal elayne did whit perrin witch means they need continue to live to fulfill it.

Lan is known to die in blight unless defeating dark one make whole blight die and malkiri will be reclaimed. aviendah visions didn't mention borderlands so no info there. all so min viewing is quite strong to show fact that he dies all so i think lan is broken wolf in dark prophecy.

Mat/tuon cant die because for some odd reason in future Seanchan empire is renamed to raven empire. I am afraid its because Seanchan collapse after damane issue and fact that they main land is consumed by war and chaos. All so maybe raven empire come from fact that Mat is price of ravens will rule along whit tuon and prince of raven > Raven empior > raven empire. (would be fit to mat torture person who hate nobles and all so monarchs end up as empior and monarch himself... as far as i can see pattern always throw that kind of jokes at mat.)

Elayne may and may not die. But fact is that her daughter need to be born because caymlan will have drakand bloodline ruler. when future viewing from avhienda told that queen of andor share dragon blood it cant be eny other way. Unless fact that rand mother was tigrane and and father damatred then allso if damatred bloodline have andor throne it will be still dragons blood. XD.(ops)

Aviendha cant die because she still need have child to fulfill future viewing and even so if aviendha take up elayne child's it would still be wrong because one child need rule in andor when same time other girl child is whit aiels means that there will be atleast one more birth.

Nynaeve may die because if lan dies like i think there is chance warder bond witch have 2 kind of effects on AS one is sorrow other is vengeance and taking considering nynaeve personality i think Nynaeve will die seeking revenge for lan death taking huge amount of shadowspawn along whit her.. sort of like Manetheren queen did in past.

Egwene/Gawyn - I dont think they die because aviendha future viewing WT stood till 3th generation meaning there must be firm strong leader there to keep it up so long and as far as i know there isint eny Strong leader type amelyn atm who could replace egwene Gawyn might die in battle but egwene no.

Min- Min is wildcard she dont see herself future(except rand love thing because she share future whit aviendha and Elayne) cuts off one main future knowledge we get in WOT. Aviendah one way future dont mention Min. No prophecy mention her as well so u can just wild guess on her future.ofc all this is speculation xd

[MarkDiLillo]

I voted Eg, mostly because of Jasons letter, (partly because it's a 2 for 1 deal :) )

 

I think Min will die, because the LTT-voice added her to Rand's 'list'.

 

I'd forgotten about that, good catch, but I hope you're wrong :)

 

Min.

 

I just dont see a way to write a happy ending for her that fits well without being super cheesy. If she goes away with Rand at the end she faces the aging problem. If she stays with Rand and the girls she runs into that problem again. If Rand dies and she lives then she has nothing left and no way to write a happy ending.

 

It will be tough to fit her in without dying IMO.

 

Although I think you may be right because of FSMs post above, I disagree on principal with the reasoning. Yes if they all survive, Min will get old and few of the others will, but that doesn't mean that the time they'd have would be worthless - they're a similar age now, so similar maturities, they get along well, love each other - surely that counts for something? If he dies then why would her life mean nothing, she'll be heartbroken to begin with as will Elayne and Avi, but that's not everything. There are millions of people in Randland that don't have 'power' in their societies, are their lives going to be meaningless as well?

 

I see what you're saying and you're correct from a real world perspective. However, the issue is that we dont have any real clues that will lead up to Mins ending if Rand dies and she survives. It's not about power or anything. It's about Min as a character is literally not developed and has nothing but Rand. Her entire character is an "I love Rand, I'll do anything to help him" character. She has no other interests, no side plots, no real back story. It's not about realistically if she can survive with a meaningful life, it's about using the clues we've been given to see what type of ending could fit her. The only ending that could even remotely fit her without Rand would be one where she goes to one of Rand's schools to teach/work/learn/etc. That would work, but even that feels a little forced and would need some fine writing to make it work.

 

The only ending possible for her will be one where she reitres with Rand or dies IMO. I feel like the retiring with Rand is a bit messy because of the age thing so I'm skeptical about it - I'm also skeptical about Rand retiring anywhere where mortals can follow him as well. The addition of Min to the Rand's list, the way Avi and Elayne haven't really mingled with Min much and are up to their own bonding experience, the lack of "non-Rand" details in her story, her closeness with Rand beyond the other two, her refusal to share him, and her ability to see things about everyone but herself all paints a pretty clear picture that she's going to be a goner.

[mauifranko78]

I fear for Min. So that's who I am voting on. I think her special ability, is crucial for this side of the Last Battle.. But the Wheel may not let her and that ability survive past it.. Unless, a scenario where Rand, Frodo's from the world.. Maybe she and he together leave for an isolated corner of the world.. Regardless if he survives the Last Battle, I don't think he will be an active member of the world, post-Last Battle..

 

More though, as a fan/observer of novels/television. With this much foreshadowing of the hero not surviving, if he does, the protagonist often will lose someone very close to him/her in exchange. We have had SO much Rand/Min time through out the second half of the series. The impact of him losing her, after all they have been through.. Especially when he is supposed to be the one to die... That would be the most tragic death in regards to the protagonist. One could make a case for the other two, but neither has really spent much one on one time with him throughout the series.. Their deaths would seem out of place, especially since neither really seems to have an direct projected part in the climax.. That's Moraine, that's Nynaeve, that's Min...

 

So from a writing standpoint, I feel like Min dying would have the biggest impact on the readers... Have a bad feeling about this one.

 

But I can see a scenario where Lan (maybe Nynaeve) both die too.. So much between them about not wanting to live without the other. And where does he fit in after? Most of his people are dead.. What's left will surely die during his part in the LB...

[Stevros]

I think Birgitte, will do something pretty heroic near the start of the to get rebound to the horn that ends up killing her, she will then return on blowing of the horn to fight in TG then shortly after she will be re-supn out to be younger than Gaidal Cain.

 

Only thing against this is some of Min's visions show her with a much younger man rather than the typical older Cain. (This could be a red herring though as its not every time she is younger)

[Elisaroth]

I think Birgitte, will do something pretty heroic near the start of the to get rebound to the horn that ends up killing her, she will then return on blowing of the horn to fight in TG then shortly after she will be re-supn out to be younger than Gaidal Cain.

 

Only thing against this is some of Min's visions show her with a much younger man rather than the typical older Cain. (This could be a red herring though as its not every time she is younger)

Well I think Birgitte will be rebound to wheel eventually because to remember wheel of time main concept is that ages come and go and what is will be again. if u think about it Brigitte will need to be rebound to horn again or next time 3th age come horn will lac one hero XD.

[BFG]

I voted Eg, mostly because of Jasons letter, (partly because it's a 2 for 1 deal :) )

 

I think Min will die, because the LTT-voice added her to Rand's 'list'.

 

I'd forgotten about that, good catch, but I hope you're wrong :)

 

Min.

 

I just dont see a way to write a happy ending for her that fits well without being super cheesy. If she goes away with Rand at the end she faces the aging problem. If she stays with Rand and the girls she runs into that problem again. If Rand dies and she lives then she has nothing left and no way to write a happy ending.

 

It will be tough to fit her in without dying IMO.

 

Although I think you may be right because of FSMs post above, I disagree on principal with the reasoning. Yes if they all survive, Min will get old and few of the others will, but that doesn't mean that the time they'd have would be worthless - they're a similar age now, so similar maturities, they get along well, love each other - surely that counts for something? If he dies then why would her life mean nothing, she'll be heartbroken to begin with as will Elayne and Avi, but that's not everything. There are millions of people in Randland that don't have 'power' in their societies, are their lives going to be meaningless as well?

 

I see what you're saying and you're correct from a real world perspective. However, the issue is that we dont have any real clues that will lead up to Mins ending if Rand dies and she survives. It's not about power or anything. It's about Min as a character is literally not developed and has nothing but Rand. Her entire character is an "I love Rand, I'll do anything to help him" character. She has no other interests, no side plots, no real back story. It's not about realistically if she can survive with a meaningful life, it's about using the clues we've been given to see what type of ending could fit her. The only ending that could even remotely fit her without Rand would be one where she goes to one of Rand's schools to teach/work/learn/etc. That would work, but even that feels a little forced and would need some fine writing to make it work.

 

The only ending possible for her will be one where she reitres with Rand or dies IMO. I feel like the retiring with Rand is a bit messy because of the age thing so I'm skeptical about it - I'm also skeptical about Rand retiring anywhere where mortals can follow him as well. The addition of Min to the Rand's list, the way Avi and Elayne haven't really mingled with Min much and are up to their own bonding experience, the lack of "non-Rand" details in her story, her closeness with Rand beyond the other two, her refusal to share him, and her ability to see things about everyone but herself all paints a pretty clear picture that she's going to be a goner.

 

excellently argued and I reluctantly concede defeat

[thisguy]

Min could become a scholar.... she is already..... but, she's probably gonna die. I don't remember what part it was that I was reading in the last two books but all of a sudden I felt, Min's gonna die.

 

Edit to add: possible foreshadowing - Somewhere in ToM - I believe when Rand goes back to Arad Doman as ZenRand - Rand tells Min she's a Queen, etc, etc.

 

Rand is, in fact, a King.... possibly, she's left as King of Illian.

 

Think about it - In both Andor and Cairhien - his blood may certainly rule. Elayne's having two kids - the girl takes Andor, the boy could take Cairhien.

 

Min as his wife (if he marries) can take Illian.

[mauifranko78]

"Edit: Gah! Terez got me by a few seconds..."

 

From Rand's own musings when the Horn is sounded as well.. Something along the lines of looking among the Heroes and not seeing Lews Therin among them. And the following conversation with Hawkwing.

 

Course that's the one book not on my Kindle/Nook Apps.. LOL

[Terez]

Edit: Gah! Terez got me by a few seconds...

 

It helps just to link instead of providing the full quote. :) (I love being able to do that.)

 

First, could you change the poll to allow multiple selections? Right now it's only possible to choose one person.

 

As you can see by the poll title, that was entirely on purpose. There is another poll where you can pick all characters you think will die; this is for the main/SO character you think most likely to die.

 

This pretty much assures that either Rand dies (in which case Min dies for certain as well) or, possibly but less likely, he goes off somewhere (and Min goes with him).

 

I don't see why that would be considered less likely. One of the themes of the series is Rand just wanting to go back home. But in order for him to do that, most people have to believe he is dead. That doesn't mean that he won't actually die; it just means that his resurrection will not be widely-known, except in rumor and (eventually) legend. Min can live out the rest of her life in the Two Rivers, and when she dies, Aviendha and Elayne can exit the world stage and join him.

 

I personally don't think it very likely Min will die. Like Elayne and Aviendha, we know she has to survive at least until the point of Rand's resurrection.

 

"Edit: Gah! Terez got me by a few seconds..."

 

From Rand's own musings when the Horn is sounded as well.. Something along the lines of looking among the Heroes and not seeing Lews Therin among them. And the following conversation with Hawkwing.

 

Course that's the one book not on my Kindle/Nook Apps.. LOL

 

That's usually not enough for people who want to argue he's not a hero. Hence jumping straight to the RJ quote.

[MarkDiLillo]

The only happy ending I can see between Rand and Min is one where he gets burned out from the source and suddenly can live a normal life with Min in obscurity. But...that brings in a whole other set of problems that make it tough to have a happy ending.

 

As much as I agree with the theme of him wanting to go home, I dont see how Rand can just fade into obscurity somewhere and live out his life in peace. The Two Rivers basically doesn't exist anymore the way he remembers, and he is going to live to be over 600 years old. If the Two Rivers was kept isolated from change then I think that scenario could be a happy ending...but he doesn't have any home to go back to at this point. I also dont see it as being very realistic for him to just forget everything and suddenly want to tend sheep again. Especially considering how the world is going to be in total chaos for the next several hundred years.

[Glokta]

I think Lan will probably live. It seems clear that Malkier will be reestablished after the LB and there is nobody to rule it other than Lan. Nynaeve might, I suppose, but I think it would be kind of awkward for her to become the Malkieri queen if Lan dies before the kingdom is reestablished. Also, Nynaeve is not pregnant and if Lan is killed off the line of the Malkieri kings will be broken. Somehow I don't RJ writing it this way. I think both of them will live.

I hope you're right... It would be sad to have Lan dying after all he went through. There is also Min's viewing of the baby with a sword... but are we sure Nynaeve is not pregnant? How much time is it since they got separated?

[Terez]

Why does Rand have to get burned out? Min will live a normal life and die while Rand is still young, but that doesn't preclude a happy life for her. She's already accepted that she has to share him, and I think she'll be happy enough to spend what years she can with him. Going by legends and parallels, I'm guessing he'll live in the Westwood, and he might use a MoM disguise (which would be necessary to simulate aging anyway) to live a relatively normal life there with Min. I think that was foreshadowed in the incredibly cheesy introduction of Min to Tam. The Two Rivers has changed, but Perrin is there, and Tam is there, and others Rand will probably let in on the secret. And it's very clear that all he wants to do is tend sheep again, or at least, to live the simple life he seemed destined for until that Winternight. It's not what Mat wants. It's not what Egwene wants. But it's what Rand wants. And who says the world will be in chaos for several hundred years? We all know Aviendha's vision of the future will change, but the disappearance of Elayne and Aviendha herself in that vision is itself unexplained...unless you consider that they abandoned the world to go live with Rand in obscurity. And it was implied that Rand chose to leave the Aiel, not that he died.

 

I doubt that Rand will stay in the Two Rivers after Tam and Min and Perrin die, but he still probably won't live anything close to a public life after that point.

[Southpaw89]

Edit: Gah! Terez got me by a few seconds...

 

It helps just to link instead of providing the full quote. :) (I love being able to do that.)

 

First, could you change the poll to allow multiple selections? Right now it's only possible to choose one person.

 

As you can see by the poll title, that was entirely on purpose. There is another poll where you can pick all characters you think will die; this is for the main/SO character you think most likely to die.

 

This pretty much assures that either Rand dies (in which case Min dies for certain as well) or, possibly but less likely, he goes off somewhere (and Min goes with him).

 

I don't see why that would be considered less likely. One of the themes of the series is Rand just wanting to go back home. But in order for him to do that, most people have to believe he is dead. That doesn't mean that he won't actually die; it just means that his resurrection will not be widely-known, except in rumor and (eventually) legend. Min can live out the rest of her life in the Two Rivers, and when she dies, Aviendha and Elayne can exit the world stage and join him.

 

I personally don't think it very likely Min will die. Like Elayne and Aviendha, we know she has to survive at least until the point of Rand's resurrection.

 

"Edit: Gah! Terez got me by a few seconds..."

 

From Rand's own musings when the Horn is sounded as well.. Something along the lines of looking among the Heroes and not seeing Lews Therin among them. And the following conversation with Hawkwing.

 

Course that's the one book not on my Kindle/Nook Apps.. LOL

 

That's usually not enough for people who want to argue he's not a hero. Hence jumping straight to the RJ quote.

 

I completely agree with that resurrection of Rand not being well known. It would fit what Brandon and others called the "right ending" where Rand is still alive but people don't know it (or not many anyway) and the rumor goes through history as just that; a legend. I mean, Wilson did say Rands fate that RJ told him about was "beautiful."

[MarkDiLillo]

Why does Rand have to get burned out? Min will live a normal life and die while Rand is still young, but that doesn't preclude a happy life for her. She's already accepted that she has to share him, and I think she'll be happy enough to spend what years she can with him. Going by legends and parallels, I'm guessing he'll live in the Westwood, and he might use a MoM disguise (which would be necessary to simulate aging anyway) to live a relatively normal life there with Min. I think that was foreshadowed in the incredibly cheesy introduction of Min to Tam. The Two Rivers has changed, but Perrin is there, and Tam is there, and others Rand will probably let in on the secret. And it's very clear that all he wants to do is tend sheep again, or at least, to live the simple life he seemed destined for until that Winternight. It's not what Mat wants. It's not what Egwene wants. But it's what Rand wants. And who says the world will be in chaos for several hundred years? We all know Aviendha's vision of the future will change, but the disappearance of Elayne and Aviendha herself in that vision is itself unexplained...unless you consider that they abandoned the world to go live with Rand in obscurity. And it was implied that Rand chose to leave the Aiel, not that he died.

 

I doubt that Rand will stay in the Two Rivers after Tam and Min and Perrin die, but he still probably won't live anything close to a public life after that point.

 

It just doesn't feel like a realistic ending honestly. It's one thing to retire and want to tend sheep in a quiet life...it's quite another thing to want to do that for the next 500 years. I suggested burning out because that would (I think) take care of his lifespan and would make a "retire and live a quiet life" scenario more likely. It's just hard to swallow that the most powerful channeler alive (and someone who remembers the AoL and has such a great capacity to use his knowledge to help the world) wants to just hang out and live a quiet life in obscurity for the next 500+ years. It just seems like a messy ending to me that doesn't succinctly wrap things up.

 

Furthermore, whats he going to do in 50 years when Min dies? Just hang out by himself with his sheep? I suppose Avi and Elayne could go with him then, but would they give up their lives and repsonsibilities for a life of tending sheep in obscurity? The more you dig into this ending the more complicated it gets and even if it is still possible it suddenly feels like it's not going to be the right fit for Rand in my opinion.

[Southpaw89]

Why does Rand have to get burned out? Min will live a normal life and die while Rand is still young, but that doesn't preclude a happy life for her. She's already accepted that she has to share him, and I think she'll be happy enough to spend what years she can with him. Going by legends and parallels, I'm guessing he'll live in the Westwood, and he might use a MoM disguise (which would be necessary to simulate aging anyway) to live a relatively normal life there with Min. I think that was foreshadowed in the incredibly cheesy introduction of Min to Tam. The Two Rivers has changed, but Perrin is there, and Tam is there, and others Rand will probably let in on the secret. And it's very clear that all he wants to do is tend sheep again, or at least, to live the simple life he seemed destined for until that Winternight. It's not what Mat wants. It's not what Egwene wants. But it's what Rand wants. And who says the world will be in chaos for several hundred years? We all know Aviendha's vision of the future will change, but the disappearance of Elayne and Aviendha herself in that vision is itself unexplained...unless you consider that they abandoned the world to go live with Rand in obscurity. And it was implied that Rand chose to leave the Aiel, not that he died.

 

I doubt that Rand will stay in the Two Rivers after Tam and Min and Perrin die, but he still probably won't live anything close to a public life after that point.

 

It just doesn't feel like a realistic ending honestly. It's one thing to retire and want to tend sheep in a quiet life...it's quite another thing to want to do that for the next 500 years. I suggested burning out because that would (I think) take care of his lifespan and would make a "retire and live a quiet life" scenario more likely. It's just hard to swallow that the most powerful channeler alive (and someone who remembers the AoL and has such a great capacity to use his knowledge to help the world) wants to just hang out and live a quiet life in obscurity for the next 500+ years. It just seems like a messy ending to me that doesn't succinctly wrap things up.

 

Furthermore, whats he going to do in 50 years when Min dies? Just hang out by himself with his sheep? I suppose Avi and Elayne could go with him then, but would they give up their lives and repsonsibilities for a life of tending sheep in obscurity? The more you dig into this ending the more complicated it gets and even if it is still possible it suddenly feels like it's not going to be the right fit for Rand in my opinion.

 

It'll be left open to interpretation more than likely if that is what happens.

[thisguy]

It's possible that Rand takes his ladies and goes to a parallel world - Portal Stone-like.