A Tinker in the Green?

[Orderofolde]

It was discussed earlier in the books by one of the Mahdi that if one of their women begins to channel, they are taken to Tar Valon. However, given the Way of the Leaf one would not expect to find any of their few women among the Green Ajah as it is the "Battle Ajah." Yet we have Aisling Noon who is of the Tuatha'an as a Green. One would expect that you would find them solely among one of the "safe" non-violent Ajahs, perhaps as a Brown or a White, or better yet if they had any scrap of talent for healing, the Yellows. It is true that we have seen Aram break from life-long tradition, but is to begin channeling to be shunned and forced apart from Tuatha'an tradition?

[Clouded]

I'm afraid I don't understand the question. Are you asking "Is it tradition for those who begin to channel, that they are shunned and forced apart from being Tuatha'an"?

[Agitel]

It is true that we have seen Aram break from life-long tradition, but is to begin channeling to be shunned and forced apart from Tuatha'an tradition?

 

I don't think so. Aisling Noon probably just gave up the Way of the Leaf after she came to the White Tower and got to experience a different culture and values. She may have felt rejected by her own people. Maybe she didn't want to go to the White Tower. Still, I'm not sure I'd say she was shunned the way Aram was.

[rand4747]

I don't think its like being cast out, its just something they have to do.

[Vardar]

I don't think its like being cast out, its just something they have to do.

 

Yes but explaining that to a child may not work. She was forced to leave her people for good, to her it may damn well feel like the same thing.

[jsbrads]

Originally in AoL, way of leaf was an Aiel custom only and if you can channel, you leave Aiel and Join AS with no way of leaf

Traveling people may believe in Way of the Leaf as a social responsibility, not an individual responsibility. They did change from a local custom to a dream of global way of leaf, but that may have been generated by their hard lives from breaking to now.

[Maleshub]

Given a choice between painful death and possible injury to her people; and Tua'athan who begins to channel would give up the Way of the Leaf for herself to save it for others. And in the WT, the Green Ajah is the closest Ajah that allows her to maintain her experience love, fun, music, etc.... The Greens seem to enjoy life more than other AS!

[Orderofolde]

I'm afraid I don't understand the question. Are you asking "Is it tradition for those who begin to channel, that they are shunned and forced apart from being Tuatha'an"?

The girl had to have reached Tar Valon between ages 15-18 and would have had to have found life difficult there twice as much as any other except perhaps a Seafolk woman so far from the sea. Not eating meat, the Way of the Leaf, these likely had to be challenges, as well as not learning any weaves that went against the Way. To choose the Green seems to indicate abandoning the Way of the Leaf, much as Aram did. Otherwise I cannot see her making such a choice logically.

[Luckers]

I think its quite reasonable for a Tuatha'an woman to turn her back on her heritage--after all, her people turned their backs on her.

[1Brotherbill]

Doesn't the Tower break all bonds when a girl comes to them. So nationalities go away. Family goes away. So you would think that cultural beliefs would go as well.

[jsbrads]

Just read Rand's experience in the glass pillars, and the first "Aiel" took the spear, because it could "put food in the pot" so way of leaf doesn't extend to not eating meat

[rand4747]

at least not then, I don't recall much about the old Aiel, I had a look and I didn't see anything about them being vegetarian.

[FanoLan]

Doesn't the Tower break all bonds when a girl comes to them. So nationalities go away. Family goes away. So you would think that cultural beliefs would go as well.

 

This seems like the best reasoning to me. Aisling choosing the Green despite her Tuath'a'an heritage is more a comment about the Tower's effectiveness and less a comment about Aisling herself or a general Tuath'a'an response to learning they channel and therefore must go to the Tower. When the mahdi speaks about taking one of their girls who can channel to the Tower, it sounds like that entire group makes the journey. Not quite the dancing and balls for a Carhienin noblewoman whe learns she can channel but closer to that than the Tairen custom for a fisherman's daughter who can do the same.

[kght22]

Just read Rand's experience in the glass pillars, and the first "Aiel" took the spear, because it could "put food in the pot" so way of leaf doesn't extend to not eating meat

 

at least not then, I don't recall much about the old Aiel, I had a look and I didn't see anything about them being vegetarian.

 

i'm glad someone noticed that. the traveling folk aren't vegetarians, and they keep big old mean seeming dogs (that are perfectly safe and would never hurt a human), and you don't feed a mastiff veggies, it wouldn't be healthy. we can do that today with our predatory animals and keep them healthy, but with raw materials and not knowing exactly what kind of foods might be available it would be impossible to keep a large predator/meat scavenger healthy without feeding it meat. not to mention none of the 3 who rested with the traveling folk mentioned a lack of meat, and in emond's field there was no mention of the tuatha'an not being able to eat the normal food available. the wot world is very different from real world middle ages in at least one way, meat is a pretty common source of food for rural peasants. i'd bet less common in cities, but pretty common for the rural peasantry. likely because of the large expanses of wilderness and very sparse population in most rural areas.

[rand4747]

Actually the tinkers are vegetarian. It is mentioned in TEotW Chapter 27. Also dogs being omnivores can live without meat just like people, but would need a special diet again just like people to get all the nutrients and all they need. I don't know what they feed the dogs though.

 

Infact its a tossup on whether they are vegan even, it says they eat no meat but dairy and all is not mentioned at all, it says, fruits, nuts, berrys and vegetables, but not meat.

[Vardar]

Just read Rand's experience in the glass pillars, and the first "Aiel" took the spear, because it could "put food in the pot" so way of leaf doesn't extend to not eating meat

 

at least not then, I don't recall much about the old Aiel, I had a look and I didn't see anything about them being vegetarian.

 

i'm glad someone noticed that. the traveling folk aren't vegetarians, and they keep big old mean seeming dogs (that are perfectly safe and would never hurt a human), and you don't feed a mastiff veggies, it wouldn't be healthy. we can do that today with our predatory animals and keep them healthy, but with raw materials and not knowing exactly what kind of foods might be available it would be impossible to keep a large predator/meat scavenger healthy without feeding it meat. not to mention none of the 3 who rested with the traveling folk mentioned a lack of meat, and in emond's field there was no mention of the tuatha'an not being able to eat the normal food available. the wot world is very different from real world middle ages in at least one way, meat is a pretty common source of food for rural peasants. i'd bet less common in cities, but pretty common for the rural peasantry. likely because of the large expanses of wilderness and very sparse population in most rural areas.

 

It was mentioned that they were vegan. Perrin and Elyas remarked on it, because Elyas still liked the food despite it being all veggies.

 

That being said, no idea what they feed the dogs. Good catch.

[randomh3r0]

Doesn't the Tower break all bonds when a girl comes to them. So nationalities go away. Family goes away. So you would think that cultural beliefs would go as well.

 

This.

 

After the arches test for The Accepted, they cast off their old lives and take the ring. This is personified by the experiences in the arches, and one would reasonably assume any Tinker going through this test would be faced with a choice to defend themselves/someone they cared about or not, facing their greatest fears, and end up having to do so.

[Kudzu]

Just read Rand's experience in the glass pillars, and the first "Aiel" took the spear, because it could "put food in the pot" so way of leaf doesn't extend to not eating meat

 

at least not then, I don't recall much about the old Aiel, I had a look and I didn't see anything about them being vegetarian.

 

i'm glad someone noticed that. the traveling folk aren't vegetarians, and they keep big old mean seeming dogs (that are perfectly safe and would never hurt a human), and you don't feed a mastiff veggies, it wouldn't be healthy. we can do that today with our predatory animals and keep them healthy, but with raw materials and not knowing exactly what kind of foods might be available it would be impossible to keep a large predator/meat scavenger healthy without feeding it meat. not to mention none of the 3 who rested with the traveling folk mentioned a lack of meat, and in emond's field there was no mention of the tuatha'an not being able to eat the normal food available. the wot world is very different from real world middle ages in at least one way, meat is a pretty common source of food for rural peasants. i'd bet less common in cities, but pretty common for the rural peasantry. likely because of the large expanses of wilderness and very sparse population in most rural areas.

 

It was mentioned that they were vegan. Perrin and Elyas remarked on it, because Elyas still liked the food despite it being all veggies.

 

That being said, no idea what they feed the dogs. Good catch.

 

Since they are usually in remote areas they probably allow the dogs to hunt for themselves.

[Orderofolde]

Doesn't the Tower break all bonds when a girl comes to them. So nationalities go away. Family goes away. So you would think that cultural beliefs would go as well.

 

This.

 

After the arches test for The Accepted, they cast off their old lives and take the ring. This is personified by the experiences in the arches, and one would reasonably assume any Tinker going through this test would be faced with a choice to defend themselves/someone they cared about or not, facing their greatest fears, and end up having to do so.

Yes, the experiences in the arches are enough to shake any girl up. If any of them had an experience like any of the girls related to the shadow killing all of their Tinker families, we've seen through the glass columns other True Aiel take up the spear to defend their people. Nice, I hadn't considered the effect of the arches or the test for Sisterhood.

[Lisa Campbell]

Well the arches show the initiate's fears - past, present and future. What would scare a Tinker girl into using the violence required to survive? What kind of things would she be afraid of? We already know they are afraid of hurting anyone because of the 'karmic' (for want of a better word) damage done to themselves. Or of other people hurting them for the same reason. Really, they seem to be quite brave as a whole. What else is there? It's late and I've run out of ideas...

 

Are there even any Tinker Aes Sedai? I've read of Windfinder ones but not Tinkers (and I think we would have if there were). We know that Raen tells us girls are taken to the Tower but we've never been formally introduced to one.

 

My theory is that if they are not "put out" and make it to the Accepted Test, they probably die inside. Whether they are dirty at their family or not for abandoning them, I don't think they would really deviate from the Way all that much, especially seeing as Novices are not allowed to learn weaves that can be used as weapons (Ref: Verin and the girls meeting the Whitecloaks outside Tar Valon on the way back from Falme, and Verin's emphatic "you will unlearn it" with regard to the girls' attack).

 

Thoughts anyone?

[Vardar]

Well the arches show the initiate's fears - past, present and future. What would scare a Tinker girl into using the violence required to survive? What kind of things would she be afraid of? We already know they are afraid of hurting anyone because of the 'karmic' (for want of a better word) damage done to themselves. Or of other people hurting them for the same reason. Really, they seem to be quite brave as a whole. What else is there? It's late and I've run out of ideas...

 

Are there even any Tinker Aes Sedai? I've read of Windfinder ones but not Tinkers (and I think we would have if there were). We know that Raen tells us girls are taken to the Tower but we've never been formally introduced to one.

 

My theory is that if they are not "put out" and make it to the Accepted Test, they probably die inside. Whether they are dirty at their family or not for abandoning them, I don't think they would really deviate from the Way all that much, especially seeing as Novices are not allowed to learn weaves that can be used as weapons (Ref: Verin and the girls meeting the Whitecloaks outside Tar Valon on the way back from Falme, and Verin's emphatic "you will unlearn it" with regard to the girls' attack).

 

Thoughts anyone?

 

The OP listed :Aisling Noon who was a Tinker. Or Tuan since Tinker appears to be a deregortary term, did they ever confirm that in the books? Anyway, the accepted test idea is a good one, never really thought about that, and yes I guess people who really hold to the way of the leaf would die or stay inside.

[Lisa Campbell]

Thanks about Aisling, I forgot her.

 

Yeah, their greatest fear could be coming back out of the Ter'angreal.

[jsbrads]

I seem to know more about the Aiel than modern day people. But the AoL Aiel became channelers and left their nation to join the global population, so they would not have had to keep laws of Aiel...

 

Tuathan don't seem to be casting out girls, but rather they are escourted by their people to Tar Valon, seems an honorable alternative life-style, not like a child of a Democrat family voting Republican...

[Vardar]

I seem to know more about the Aiel than modern day people. But the AoL Aiel became channelers and left their nation to join the global population, so they would not have had to keep laws of Aiel...

 

Tuathan don't seem to be casting out girls, but rather they are escourted by their people to Tar Valon, seems an honorable alternative life-style, not like a child of a Democrat family voting Republican...

 

Pretty sure the idea is it amounts to the same thing. Especially when you're 14-17 and all Emo Teen angry. You say escorting, but that kid will think, I'll never see any of my family or friends again. Hell, even most of the AS can go back to family if they want, and at least feel welcome. Tinkers really won't.

[Maleshub]

I seem to know more about the Aiel than modern day people. But the AoL Aiel became channelers and left their nation to join the global population, so they would not have had to keep laws of Aiel...

 

Tuathan don't seem to be casting out girls, but rather they are escourted by their people to Tar Valon, seems an honorable alternative life-style, not like a child of a Democrat family voting Republican...

 

Pretty sure the idea is it amounts to the same thing. Especially when you're 14-17 and all Emo Teen angry. You say escorting, but that kid will think, I'll never see any of my family or friends again. Hell, even most of the AS can go back to family if they want, and at least feel welcome. Tinkers really won't.

 

One thought that the "all Emo Teen angry" will have is: "if I don't go to Tar Valon, I will probably die and hurt my people." To any normal child, going to TV would be the best possible alternative to (1) stay alive, and (2) "follow the Way of the Leaf."