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How to become a Great Captain


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Do you guys know how to become a Great Captain? Because every person in the series seems to all agree on the 5 great captains, nobody ever complains that one doesnt belong there. So is it something like getting a heron marked blade and you have to be voted or were they just the best generals in the Aiel War. Or are there always 5 Great Captains in this land and everytime one dies someone else needs to take thier place.

 

What do you guys think?

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I think that they are just known as the greatest captains alive. There are some discussions on how someone is not one of the great captains, but is generally good, but being one of the great captains just means that you have to be excellent at battle strategy and have to be a mastermind in war. We know that it is not replaceable with death because pedron Niall died and we don't see his replacement.

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It's said that all the Seanchan generals are 'great captains', and I assume that's partly because as servants of the Empire they have a better motive to share what they know with each other. The Aiel clan chiefs probably have a great captain or two among them—Bruan comes to mind—and then there's Mat. I think they are just generals who have earned a reputation for beating odds.

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They are good generals who are experts in the art of war; and who can manage to win battles or avoid devastating defeats with minimal losses. My perception is that they are exceptional military leaders like Genghis Khan, Napoleon, Tariq, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, etc....

 

Their number in Randland is not set or definite. It is just that at the time there are only 5 great captains in Randland: Bashere and Aglemar in the borderlands, Ituralde in Arad Doman, Bryne in Andor, and Niall in the Fortress of Light.

 

I think the Aiel's lifestyle of constant or consistent military action makes their clan chiefs slightly better commanders than Randland generals (aside from great captains). And as Terez said, there might be one or two Aiel clan chiefs who can be called great captains.

 

The Seanchan generals vary in skill. Turan, who was demolished by Ituralde, didn't show the mettle or instincts of a great captain. Karede on the other hand shows that he's got what it takes to become one (if he weren't dedicated to Tuon's safety). I think the Seanchan have a better military organization that might make more of their generals great captains; but I don't think all of them are.

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I'm not sure the Aiel would necessarily qualify as great captains, Too limited by the unwillingness / inability to integrate different arms (horses, etc.) and also perhaps by their lack of experience at fighting in all sort of terrain against opponents who do integrate different arms of battle. Brave, individually gifted, brilliant at certain things but limited perhaps.

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I guess everybody in the WoT world agrees on the Great Captains because there isn't an internet upon which they can argue... :wink:

 

Imagine the comments section of the Rolling Stone of Tear's online article "Top 5 Greatest Captains Ever".

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Obvious comment is obvious, but Generals garner a reputation for winning when they win. Not nessessairily individual battles, but wars. A Great Captain has an aptitude for adaptability to changing situations in both tactical and stratigic situations. Granted that is the job of a general officer, but Randland has shown us how common it is for rank to be obtained by sponsorship, family connections and wealth. We ahve seen in actual history that nepotisim and bribery can in fact grant you all the rank you need to lead men into battle, but it takes a little more than that to take them home again.

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What I think the greatest captain's today are:

1: Mat

2: Rand (he has so much more inside in what channelers can do in a fight)

3: Hawkwing

4: Rodel Ituralde

5: Demandred (I honestly don't think (had he not the OP) he could have done what rodel did at Maradon.)

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  1. Mat
  2. Ituralde
  3. Bashere
  4. Bryne
  5. Rhuarc (or the best of the Aiel captains)

(Demandred we have not seen so we do not know whether or not he has good abilities and whether or not he has changed from the Breaking or not. Also, Hawking is not alive and can only be brought back from the Horn of Valere, wchich makes him in destructible. This is not an accurate judging of his ability, though I have no doubt that when he was alive, he was better than anyone but Mat.)

 

 

1. Mat

2. Hawkwing

3. Demandred

4. Guaire Amalasan

5. Weiramon

 

Hahahaha! I get it. Awesome.

 

What is it, I don't get it!

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If Lan lives through this, I hope he becomes recognized as one of the Great Captains. He's refused to command many people so far, but that's over now.

I hope not. He has not commanded a serious campaign, just a single march.

 

as for mat, he should not be considered a great commander, he is an up and comer but not nearly at the same level of recognition as the others.

 

part of the title great commander is that their names must be famous, and that they led multiple campaigns that where very well executed

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If Lan lives through this, I hope he becomes recognized as one of the Great Captains. He's refused to command many people so far, but that's over now.

I hope not. He has not commanded a serious campaign, just a single march.

 

as for mat, he should not be considered a great commander, he is an up and comer but not nearly at the same level of recognition as the others.

 

part of the title great commander is that their names must be famous, and that they led multiple campaigns that where very well executed

 

How famous do you want him to be?

 

The Aiel know how great he is.

The Seanchan know how great he is.

The Tairien's know it.

The Cairhiens know it.

The Andorian's know it.

Lan knows it.

Birgette knows it.

Elayne knows it.

Rand knows it.

Bashere knows it.

Jolene, Edesina and Teslyn know it.

 

Who's left, that needs to know?

 

He's already a lot more famous that you give him credit for.

 

 

And what's this single March stuff?

He beat the Aiel while grossly outnumbered.

Led many winning battles, while once again outnumbered against Andor's forces when Rahvin was still running it.

Then he executed a brilliant strategy against the Seanchan forces in Altara and then destroyed a force 20-30% larger than his own. All the while receiving almost negligible losses to his own forces throughout, something completely silly like 10-15 of theirs to every 1 of his own.

Edited by Finnssss
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1. Mat

2. Hawkwing

3. Demandred

4. Guaire Amalasan

5. Weiramon

 

Hahahaha! I get it. Awesome.

 

What is it, I don't get it!

 

The joke is Weiramon making the list. Rand muses about him being a bumbling idiot militarily on many occasions.

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In shorter terms they are usually men who lead smaller forces and are the underdogs that consistently out think, out maneuver, and fight their opponents right off their feet I believe it was said.

 

I gotta disagree with this. Gareth Bryne is considered a Great Captain, but has likely never fought a war in which he had inferior forces. Hell, even in the AS Civil War the SAS had a larger army than the TAS, and also advantages in channeler capabilities.

 

More likely it is just an informal title granted to those generals who consistently succeed in warfare through whatever means they have.

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If Lan lives through this, I hope he becomes recognized as one of the Great Captains. He's refused to command many people so far, but that's over now.

I hope not. He has not commanded a serious campaign, just a single march.

 

as for mat, he should not be considered a great commander, he is an up and comer but not nearly at the same level of recognition as the others.

 

part of the title great commander is that their names must be famous, and that they led multiple campaigns that where very well executed

 

How famous do you want him to be?

 

The Aiel know how great he is.

The Seanchan know how great he is.

The Tairien's know it.

The Cairhiens know it.

The Andorian's know it.

Lan knows it.

Birgette knows it.

Elayne knows it.

Rand knows it.

Bashere knows it.

Jolene, Edesina and Teslyn know it.

 

Who's left, that needs to know?

 

He's already a lot more famous that you give him credit for.

 

 

And what's this single March stuff?

He beat the Aiel while grossly outnumbered.

Led many winning battles, while once again outnumbered against Andor's forces when Rahvin was still running it.

Then he executed a brilliant strategy against the Seanchan forces in Altara and then destroyed a force 20-30% larger than his own. All the while receiving almost negligible losses to his own forces throughout, something completely silly like 10-15 of theirs to every 1 of his own.

ok the andorans don't really know who he is, all they know is that a dragonsworn tactician successfully fought against loyal andoran forces (whom Rhavin sent out to die)

Cairhein, I think he is primarily known as a friend of the dragon, not as a tactician.

The Aiel have a healthy respect for him, but in case you havent noticed the Aiel do not seem to be included in this count because against all the great generals the Aiel where kickin the hell out of them.

Tairens don't know it all that well, all he did was march by Tear

The seanchan have just found out what a good tactician he is, and to be honest they are not included in the count, plus he was able to do that campaign because the seanchan had almost no idea he was there initially. He would have had to be an idiot to screw that up.

OF the people you name the only ones of consequence (world wide) are Elayne and Bashere that could effectively increase his reputation. For rand too would look like Rand's just boostin his buddy up.

The aiel he fought skirmishes with them, not an actual battle battle with them, the main reason he was successful was because 1) friend of the dragon = automatically obeyed 2) he had intell about where they where (off the start) and where they would attack from by fluke.

 

 

all in all if you ask a average peasant in every country who the greatest captains alive are, not one of them would know mat's name. Among military circles he may be known, but I truly do not think he is militarily tested enough to be considered a great captain. afterall he has been leading troops for what a year and a bit max, with quite an extensive vacation in ebou dar, and then wandering with Luca

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In shorter terms they are usually men who lead smaller forces and are the underdogs that consistently out think, out maneuver, and fight their opponents right off their feet I believe it was said.

 

I gotta disagree with this. Gareth Bryne is considered a Great Captain, but has likely never fought a war in which he had inferior forces. Hell, even in the AS Civil War the SAS had a larger army than the TAS, and also advantages in channeler capabilities.

 

More likely it is just an informal title granted to those generals who consistently succeed in warfare through whatever means they have.

This assumes that in every battle Bryne led, he had the entire Andoran army at his beck and call, a ridiculous idea. In the Aiel War, for example, he wasn't even the Captain General of Andor. He probably led small contingents of the army, and achieved great success against the Aiel, earning him his title.

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if the light wins the last battle and mat is still alive, he will be known as the greast military mind. no general starts out as a general, most would have had to survive many battles and wars to become a general. the great captains would have to win many battles, wars, and city defenses. leaders of opposing forces would fear facing them in battle knowing even if they do win, the losses of thier force would be large.

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I think the title Great Captain is something that was just given out by either nations or possibly the white tower. As far as military ability. I don't see it as Bryne being all that much or even Bashere. Bryne is more of a supply and logistics guy. Bashere comes across as a laze about chariot chaser. Interlude now there is a general that thinks on his feet. Nail seemed to be great in political maneuverability. Aglemar just seemed to be a guy that took war as something that needed to be done before bed time.

 

Lan seems to be strong in the art of war after all he was a general during the Aiel war. His strategy in battle plans is equal to Matt when it comes to planning the attack on Cairhein. In all aspects he is better than four out of the five great captains.

 

Matt is a military genius. But comes across as someone who doesn't want to fight and will try his luck sneaking away from a fight. After all in Cairhein he stated all I wanted to do was get out of town. But battles seemed to find him and he didn't know why. Even running away from the Seanchan it was more of a stumble upon the enemy in order for his people to get out of the area.

 

Perrin is a good general. But he has issues with being a lord.

 

Tam and Matt's dad show good military knowledge and skill.

 

So Great Captain's not so great.

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