Egwene Appreciation Thread

[Suttree]

I think you are just too focussed on the power aspect to see the rest of my arguments. Egwene may feel as if she's bearing the weight of the world, but that's just a delusion because Rand now bears the responsibilty to lead the forces of the Light against the Shadow. Someone like Elayne carries more responsibility than Egwene in my opinion. Elayne has a few million subjects, Egwene perhaps two thousand right now.

 

Actually that is close to what I said. Recall in my earlier post I mentioned "you can make the argument wether the AS are still best suited to the task" you just can't question Egwene's intentions.

 

As for Elayne that is just way off. For one you seem to be forgetting Tar Valon is a city and two the WT will still be a major political force post TG working with every country, the only difference hopefuly being the Ashaman integrated in as well as equals. Errr actual equality, not sure what the odd debate is in the posts above this.

[Edynol]

I think you are just too focussed on the power aspect to see the rest of my arguments. Egwene may feel as if she's bearing the weight of the world, but that's just a delusion because Rand now bears the responsibilty to lead the forces of the Light against the Shadow. Someone like Elayne carries more responsibility than Egwene in my opinion. Elayne has a few million subjects, Egwene perhaps two thousand right now.

 

Actually that is close to what I said. Recall in my earlier post I mentioned "you can make the argument wether the AS are still best suited to the task" you just can't question Egwene's intentions.

 

As for Elayne that is just way off. For one you seem to be forgetting Tar Valon is a city and two the WT will still be a major political force post TG working with every country, the only difference hopefuly being the Ashaman integrated in as well as equals. Errr actual equality, not sure what the odd debate is in the posts above this.

The debate is about rather Egwene should make Logain an equal co-leader with as much total authority as herself or having them re-vote for who becomes Amyrlin.

 

I choose neither. She should stay Amyrlin.

[XXX]

[PA removed] He wore the ring of Tamyrlin, which was given to the leader of the AS. The position did exist back then, just wasn't called Amyrlin, but First Among Servants. And having a re-election would be dumb, because Eggy has earned the position and should lose it to someone who doesn't yet understand what it really means to be Aes Sedai. She needs to remain the leader in order to help guide the way into the future, which she will do better than anyone else.

 

So the AM should accept Egwene as their leader when they had no say in it?. I wonder why the AM may have some trouble with that.

 

I doubt the wearer of the Ring of Tamyrlin had as much power as the Amyrlin Seat considering that LTT could not even get the AS to follow his plan to reseal the bore. The AS in the AoL were not a political body like the AS of today.

[Thrasymachus]

The First Among Servants was much more powerful than the Amrylin Seat of the Third Age. Lews Therin wasn't First in the events leading up to the Strike, he had abdicated that position to lead the armies of the Light. That L.P. woman was First, and she had sufficient authority to get all the women of sufficient strength to refuse to help in the plan to seal the Bore, and many of those who lacked sufficient strength. You don't see that kind of unity in the Third Age Aes Sedai. Fully a third of them sat out the White Tower split. Getting that many women (hell, people) to agree to something is like herding cats. You either need a big stick, or a lot of catnip.

 

The First Among Servants could summon the Nine Rods of Dominion, the regional rulers of the planet during the AoL. He or she was essentially the leader of the whole world. If anything, the political power of the leader of the Aes Sedai was far greater during the AoL than during the 3rd Age. Part of the problem with 3rd Age Aes Sedai is that they tried to hang on to that political power in the same manner that they had it during the AoL, when, given the events of the Breaking, there was no way for that to happen.

 

Egwene doesn't have to give up her authority to bring the Black Tower into the White. She just has to give the men political equality in the Hall. They have to get Sitters, and be able to nominate and vote for candidates for the Amrylin Seat when it becomes vacant. The only reason she would have to vacate her seat is if she discredited herself to the men in some way, and that hasn't happened yet, and doesn't look like it's gonna happen. More than likely, however, the Black Tower will remain independent of the White, though probably allied to them.

[Edynol]

The First Among Servants was much more powerful than the Amrylin Seat of the Third Age. Lews Therin wasn't First in the events leading up to the Strike, he had abdicated that position to lead the armies of the Light. That L.P. woman was First, and she had sufficient authority to get all the women of sufficient strength to refuse to help in the plan to seal the Bore, and many of those who lacked sufficient strength. You don't see that kind of unity in the Third Age Aes Sedai. Fully a third of them sat out the White Tower split. Getting that many women (hell, people) to agree to something is like herding cats. You either need a big stick, or a lot of catnip.

 

The First Among Servants could summon the Nine Rods of Dominion, the regional rulers of the planet during the AoL. He or she was essentially the leader of the whole world. If anything, the political power of the leader of the Aes Sedai was far greater during the AoL than during the 3rd Age. Part of the problem with 3rd Age Aes Sedai is that they tried to hang on to that political power in the same manner that they had it during the AoL, when, given the events of the Breaking, there was no way for that to happen.

 

Egwene doesn't have to give up her authority to bring the Black Tower into the White. She just has to give the men political equality in the Hall. They have to get Sitters, and be able to nominate and vote for candidates for the Amrylin Seat when it becomes vacant. The only reason she would have to vacate her seat is if she discredited herself to the men in some way, and that hasn't happened yet, and doesn't look like it's gonna happen. More than likely, however, the Black Tower will remain independent of the White, though probably allied to them.

Exactly. So so LTT wasn't even the leader of Aes Sedai at the point the women refuse to help him, so it does effect their political body at all.

 

And putting men in sitters chairs I include when I said giving them equal rights to vote on future Amyrlins. Just so we are clear on that. lol. But yeah Thrasy is right, thank for the back up. lol. And yeah the BT may very well stay separate, I see that as more likely, actually, I am just saying if Eggy does bring them back to the Aes Sedai, that would be the way to do it. And while it is more likely the BT will stay separate, it is still very likely they may merge with the WT. Or perhaps both will happen. Men who don't wanna be fighters can join the AS and Women who do can become Asha'man.

[RandA lThor]

I don't think that LTT would have used force to try and convince the Aes Sedai to go with him.

[RandA lThor]

Slander used by both sides, I wonder how hard it would be to have an Egwene appreciation thread where everyone is nice and kind.

[SuperFade]

Christ everybody just calm the hell down unless you want Luckers to sweep in and carpet bomb the thread with mass warnings like he did that other time. There's no need to insult one another or be passive agressive little drama queens about everything. You don't like someone else's argument? Then say so without insulting them. Even if they start spewing insults, just take the high ground and let everyone else see how immature they are.

[muddasssir]

ok guys let me admit that I am way out of my depth here. Though on thing I have always wondered, if you see all the Eggy discussions you will see that at some point eggy haters do try to understand what is wrong and that eggy is just a character. Even sometimes we go on and admit that perhaps w are not being rational at times but I am yet to se such an effort from the other sid of the divide. Makes one wonder hmmm. Anyway I think this has gotten sufficiently put of hand for someone to do something about it. I mean me, Suttree, Elan, and other guys and gals have been disputing these same points without abusing each other and same can be expected of everyone else. I have mostly stayed away from this thread because this is an eggy appreciation thread and I am yet to find anything to appreciate. We have been back and forth over all these points so people just chill out. Moderators, lock this thread down for a couple of days r do something to cool it of.

[Edynol]

You know what? You're right. I appologize. I shouldn't let them get to me. I'm just gonna ignore them from now on.

 

I just think that if Egwene is the one to put her hand out in friendship to the Ashies and bring them into the AS, she would be the best choice as leader, just like whenshe was chosen by the WT sisters to become, in their eyes, the legit and undisputed Amyrlin. She started the reunification there, so she remained Amyrlin. Now it is unheard of for someone to become Amyrlin twice, but then again the tower never split before. But making her do it a 3rd would be ridiculous imo.

[Maleshub]

While you're at it, explain how equality is served by have the AM subject to a leader chosen not by themselves, or by a leader (the Dragon) they willingly volunteered to follow, but by an organization until very recently dedicated to their destruction?

 

Considering that the Ashaman (BT) were putting down a fair number of their members by "sleep," it is fair to assume that they know why the WT was gentling male channelers. It isn't personal; just the taint that will drive them mad and make a mess of the world. Cannot hold it against the WT to work to keep the world safer.

 

As to how the Ashaman can come to accept the White Tower as their institution, it would be through Rand's demands in the Field of Merrilor. If he demands that Ashaman be taken into the White Tower as Aes Sedai, I think that the White Tower will accept. We have a lead to this when both Salidar and White Tower sent emissaries to the Black Tower to bond male channelers to increase their cirlces beyond 13. And we have Androl and Pevara with a "work together towards greatness" line.

 

The White Tower Aes Sedai know that the taint is cleansed. Ashaman have healed the stilling of women and can have them back to 100% (or 95%+) of their former power. Flinn is to Ashaman what Nynaeve or Sumeko is to Aes Sedai. There is no logical reason why the White Tower cannot accept Ashaman as Aes Sedai in their institution. On the contrary, everyone seems on the verge of trying to work together towards male-female unity and greatness. And that is needed to keep the Seanchan at bay (In Aviendha's visions, the WT and BT were divided).

[Luckers]

All personal attacks and commentary on personal attacks have been removed. Any further personal attacks will result in a temp one week ban for anyone who issues it, and in the thread being locked.

 

Only warning.

[Elan Tedronai]

Gatecrashed her tower? He asked to see the Amyrlin and was shielded and under an armed escort. How is that gatecrashing? Anyone has the right to ask to see the Amyrlin. State their reasons in a gentle fashion. Did Egwene explain to Rand where Salidar was? She didn't explain to him what was happening to the Tower. She didn't even explain to him why Moiraine told her to do things in the beginning of the books. Yeah, that would put Egwene's back up, but considering that she has been doing that for a way longer time, and Rand asked to see her, and that Rand couldn't tell her because the plan was made so that she couldn't be told.

 

C'mon man. Read TOM once again. Yes anyone has the right to see the amyrlin. But you don't show up right away. Then he deliberately goads her. That would put up the backs up of anyone, least of all someone as stubborn and hard as egwene.

 

All rand had to do was do this

 

Rand: Egwene, i am going to break the seals

Egwene: what no rand. you cant

Rand: look the seals are crumbling and if we are going to defeat shaitan then we need to remake the prison again.

egwene: so?

Rand: so, in order to recreate the original creation, we need to get rid of the patch i laid 3,000 years ago and rebuild it from scratch.

Egwene: sounds good to me but we need to plan. What happens after you break the seals. what then?

Rand: *proceeds to tell his plan*

Egwene: I see.

 

That's how a mature battle leader does his things.

 

Instead we get

 

Rand: Egwene i am going to break the seals

Egwene what no rand. you cant.

Rand: It's a risk we must all take. i have to do it. clear the rubble

Egwene: its dangerous action. we must plan.

Rand: lol alright you go ahead and plan. see ya taa daa.

Egwene: what the...

 

 

 

and the train wreck continues...

On the other hand, there's some ready reference when someone denies that there's some sexism in Egwene hate.

 

Really? I would not mind Tuon as the head of the world with the WT under her. How does that fit into the sexism argument?

 

The head of the women channelling enslavement group calling the shots? I see it now starts to make a bit of sense.

 

What makes you think she isn't responsible for male channelers? Give me a solid explanation. Because the have the Black Tower now and have created their own organization and have a leader? Nah. They are all pretty much just a new group of unbound male channelers being trained as weapons and that's it. They don't have ajahs or anything, they are just weapons, for the most part. What will happen after TG? Will they become mercenaries or hired hands and bounty hunters? Or even worse, will they try to take over the world for themselves?

 

Most likely Rand and Taim will be dead, so who's left to lead them? Logain? While he would indeed be the best choice, how do we know what all he'll do? He doesn't exactly love Aes Sedai, remember. He suffered for months after being severed at their hands, and while he might may very well have deep respect and gratitude to Nynaeve and all those in their little group for healing him, do really think he's gonna forgive the rest of them so quickly? For all the AS know, he might want to bit of revenge after TG. I don't think so, I think he has forgiven them for the most part or is at least not holding any grudges.

 

The thing is, the BT and the ashies stand as a major threat to them and the world, as they see it. It might not be immediate, there may very well be hundreds of years of peace with the two towers working together, but what happens in the future if they have a disagreement that escalates in both tower going to war? They could pretty much break the world again. The only way to ensure that doesn't happen is to bring the asha'man in to rejoin the Aes Sedai, making the tower completely whole for the 1st time in 3,000 or so years. So yes, she is responsible for the male channelers as Amyrlin.

 

Also, I think when Eggy was talking about leading them, she wasn't talking about ruling them, but guiding them. Like how you lead a horse to water or lead someone down the right path.

 

The ashaman and the aes sedai are already interwined together. They have bonded each other to hell and back. With saidin being clean now there is no chance of going back to the status quo of women dominating over men because the men are back in business.

 

 

what's going to happen is very simple. The black tower is finished. It's going to end up razed to the ground. It has become a breeding ground for shadowism and taim maniuplation. There is going to be a massive firefight. But that's besides the point. Once logain assumes the leadership of the ashaman once rand retires from the scene at the end of AMOL they will look for parity and equality amongst the women. And the women will have to accept that. Luckily for them they have an amyrlin who already seen how things are going to shape up. Remember when egwene told silvana that attitudes have to change in regarding the ashaman?

 

 

In any case the ashaman will move in with the aes sedai and egwene will have to accept logain as an equal. She will have no say in the matter because Nicola's foretelling will have ensured that. But Egwene and logain have already a connection together since it was egwene who freed him when he was a prisoner.

Once the men are raised as proper aes sedai ( dont ask me how that happens) there will be a gradual weaning out of 2 leaders at the helm and more of one aes sedai ruling the roost with the ring of tamyrlin

 

Slander used by both sides, I wonder how hard it would be to have an Egwene appreciation thread where everyone is nice and kind.

 

It was one until people gatecrashed the thread much like the dragon reborn. LOL

[Niel an' Tyomn]

Egwene=best character inWOT

[XXX]

Gatecrashed her tower? He asked to see the Amyrlin and was shielded and under an armed escort. How is that gatecrashing? Anyone has the right to ask to see the Amyrlin. State their reasons in a gentle fashion. Did Egwene explain to Rand where Salidar was? She didn't explain to him what was happening to the Tower. She didn't even explain to him why Moiraine told her to do things in the beginning of the books. Yeah, that would put Egwene's back up, but considering that she has been doing that for a way longer time, and Rand asked to see her, and that Rand couldn't tell her because the plan was made so that she couldn't be told.

 

C'mon man. Read TOM once again. Yes anyone has the right to see the amyrlin. But you don't show up right away. Then he deliberately goads her. That would put up the backs up of anyone, least of all someone as stubborn and hard as egwene.

 

 

 

Rand requested a meeting. The Amyrlin called him in at her leisure. Where is the gate crashing?

 

He told her he was going to break the seals in his possession.He could have broken them even without informing Egwene and then told her that. Now that would be a real provocation. What he did was real mild. BTW the chapter "Amyrlin's Anger" seems misnamed because there was hardly any anger. I think this is one scene where RJ left few notes and BS just needed something to satisfy the prophecy.

[Maleshub]

Gatecrashed her tower? He asked to see the Amyrlin and was shielded and under an armed escort. How is that gatecrashing? Anyone has the right to ask to see the Amyrlin. State their reasons in a gentle fashion. Did Egwene explain to Rand where Salidar was? She didn't explain to him what was happening to the Tower. She didn't even explain to him why Moiraine told her to do things in the beginning of the books. Yeah, that would put Egwene's back up, but considering that she has been doing that for a way longer time, and Rand asked to see her, and that Rand couldn't tell her because the plan was made so that she couldn't be told.

 

C'mon man. Read TOM once again. Yes anyone has the right to see the amyrlin. But you don't show up right away. Then he deliberately goads her. That would put up the backs up of anyone, least of all someone as stubborn and hard as egwene.

 

 

 

Rand requested a meeting. The Amyrlin called him in at her leisure. Where is the gate crashing?

 

He told her he was going to break the seals in his possession.He could have broken them even without informing Egwene and then told her that. Now that would be a real provocation. What he did was real mild. BTW the chapter "Amyrlin's Anger" seems misnamed because there was hardly any anger. I think this is one scene where RJ left few notes and BS just needed something to satisfy the prophecy.

 

I think the anger was when Rand turned his back to her and was about to leave. She was angry and stood calling him back. It just shows how tricky prophecies are! The simple anger caused by Rand abrupt departure fulfilled that part of Elaida's foretelling.

[Elan Tedronai]

Gatecrashed her tower? He asked to see the Amyrlin and was shielded and under an armed escort. How is that gatecrashing? Anyone has the right to ask to see the Amyrlin. State their reasons in a gentle fashion. Did Egwene explain to Rand where Salidar was? She didn't explain to him what was happening to the Tower. She didn't even explain to him why Moiraine told her to do things in the beginning of the books. Yeah, that would put Egwene's back up, but considering that she has been doing that for a way longer time, and Rand asked to see her, and that Rand couldn't tell her because the plan was made so that she couldn't be told.

 

C'mon man. Read TOM once again. Yes anyone has the right to see the amyrlin. But you don't show up right away. Then he deliberately goads her. That would put up the backs up of anyone, least of all someone as stubborn and hard as egwene.

 

 

 

Rand requested a meeting. The Amyrlin called him in at her leisure. Where is the gate crashing?

 

He told her he was going to break the seals in his possession.He could have broken them even without informing Egwene and then told her that. Now that would be a real provocation. What he did was real mild. BTW the chapter "Amyrlin's Anger" seems misnamed because there was hardly any anger. I think this is one scene where RJ left few notes and BS just needed something to satisfy the prophecy.

 

by gatecrashing i mean his visit was entirely unexpected. Not that it makes a difference in the grand scheme of things especially with how the confrontation ended.

 

Sure he could have broken the seals without informing her but he might as well have because his visit was pointles in the first place. If you do not matter in my plans why would i even come and speak to you in the first place? See my point.

 

However i do agree with you *shock horror* on your last statement. The entire confrontation in that chapter is just an author fuckup. I refuse to believe rand who now is at peace with himself is that crude.

 

Sanderson had to fulfil elada's foretelling and he did in the worst possible way. Which is why i say again and again that jordan's death really ended the series from one perspective long time ago. Sanderson is just a poor author. Maybe it's due to lack of notes but improvisation is not one of his stronger points

[XXX]

Sanderson is a not a poor author but he is probably not good at improvisation. It is understandable as it is difficult to imagine what was in RJ's head about his characters.

[RandA lThor]

Gatecrashed her tower? He asked to see the Amyrlin and was shielded and under an armed escort. How is that gatecrashing? Anyone has the right to ask to see the Amyrlin. State their reasons in a gentle fashion. Did Egwene explain to Rand where Salidar was? She didn't explain to him what was happening to the Tower. She didn't even explain to him why Moiraine told her to do things in the beginning of the books. Yeah, that would put Egwene's back up, but considering that she has been doing that for a way longer time, and Rand asked to see her, and that Rand couldn't tell her because the plan was made so that she couldn't be told.

 

C'mon man. Read TOM once again. Yes anyone has the right to see the amyrlin. But you don't show up right away. Then he deliberately goads her. That would put up the backs up of anyone, least of all someone as stubborn and hard as egwene.

 

 

 

Rand requested a meeting. The Amyrlin called him in at her leisure. Where is the gate crashing?

 

He told her he was going to break the seals in his possession.He could have broken them even without informing Egwene and then told her that. Now that would be a real provocation. What he did was real mild. BTW the chapter "Amyrlin's Anger" seems misnamed because there was hardly any anger. I think this is one scene where RJ left few notes and BS just needed something to satisfy the prophecy.

 

by gatecrashing i mean his visit was entirely unexpected. Not that it makes a difference in the grand scheme of things especially with how the confrontation ended.

 

Sure he could have broken the seals without informing her but he might as well have because his visit was pointles in the first place. If you do not matter in my plans why would i even come and speak to you in the first place? See my point.

 

However i do agree with you *shock horror* on your last statement. The entire confrontation in that chapter is just an author fuckup. I refuse to believe rand who now is at peace with himself is that crude.

 

Sanderson had to fulfil elada's foretelling and he did in the worst possible way. Which is why i say again and again that jordan's death really ended the series from one perspective long time ago. Sanderson is just a poor author. Maybe it's due to lack of notes but improvisation is not one of his stronger points

 

Actually, the point of the meeting was for her to gather armies and countries to help him fight against the DO and fight the Last Battle.

[1Brotherbill]

That being said, the Aes Sedai under Egwene have traveling, and a situation such as Malkier falling due to lack of time to get to the front is less of an issue at the present due to this rediscovered ability. Her ability to lead and to direct support to where it is most needed IMO will be a turning point in the last battle. The gathering at the FoM gets everyone needed together and from there they can go, in little to no time, to where they have to be to allow them the chance to defeat the Shadow.

 

 

See this is the problem with Egwene. She has the ability and the knowledge. Problem is she won't use it correctly because it isn't part of the White Towers plan. And that plan is to keep there power base strong. So leading AS into a battle to help others out isn't a show of force it would be supplying aid. So they probably won't help at TG. They will sit around trying to figure out how to rescue the captured AS from the Seanchan because a captured AS isn't right.

[Suttree]

See this is the problem with Egwene. She has the ability and the knowledge. Problem is she won't use it correctly because it isn't part of the White Towers plan. And that plan is to keep there power base strong. So leading AS into a battle to help others out isn't a show of force it would be supplying aid. So they probably won't help at TG. They will sit around trying to figure out how to rescue the captured AS from the Seanchan because a captured AS isn't right.

 

Sigh...that's your prediction? The AS will sit out TG because some have been captured by the Seanchan.

 

As has been stated numerous times the authors have not been subtle in showing us Egwene motivations. They have hammered us over the head with the responsibility she feels in reforming the WT and facing the shadow. She has flat out claimed the AS have been fools and that the power monopoly is over in Randland. Hope to be saying this for the last time. The AS have been the main force against the shadow for three thousand years. You can argue wether they are still the group best suited for the task but you can not by any stretch of the imagination claim Egwene wants power strictly for powers sake. The WT as an isntitution has failed, and the group as a whole has bottomed out. They have been set up for redemption at TG and hopefully will move forward with the Asha'man as equals after it is all done.

[1Brotherbill]

See this is the problem with Egwene. She has the ability and the knowledge. Problem is she won't use it correctly because it isn't part of the White Towers plan. And that plan is to keep there power base strong. So leading AS into a battle to help others out isn't a show of force it would be supplying aid. So they probably won't help at TG. They will sit around trying to figure out how to rescue the captured AS from the Seanchan because a captured AS isn't right.

 

Sigh...that's your prediction? The AS will sit out TG because some have been captured by the Seanchan.

 

As has been stated numerous times the authors have not been subtle in showing us Egwene motivations. They have hammered us over the head with the responsibility she feels in reforming the WT and facing the shadow. She has flat out claimed the AS have been fools and that the power monopoly is over in Randland. Hope to be saying this for the last time. The AS have been the main force against the shadow for three thousand years. You can argue wether they are still the group best suited for the task but you can not by any stretch of the imagination claim Egwene wants power strictly for powers sake. The WT as an isntitution has failed, and the group as a whole has bottomed out. They have been set up for redemption at TG and hopefully will move forward with the Asha'man as equals after it is all done.

 

Bull

 

If this is her wish and desire. Good for her. However, she is moving way to slow for this to happen. She will be battling tradition and lets face it stupid AS for the entire book and the tower is going to be left out.

 

Besides I have a feeling that the Last Battle will be rapped up in the first third of the book. All the players are right there at FoM. Open a gate break and seal back up damage done. Rest of the book is going to be putting arrows in Trollocs and Forsaken. Then comes the deal with Egwene bringing the both male and female AS together.

 

I will be disappointed if the book ends with Rand closing the prison and then that's it.

[Suttree]

Bull

 

In regards to?

 

If this is her wish and desire. Good for her. However, she is moving way to slow for this to happen. She will be battling tradition and lets face it stupid AS for the entire book and the tower is going to be left out.

 

Moving too slow? They have reunified the WT, purged the BA, inititated numerous reforms, repulsed the Seanchan and evicted a forsaken. The WT story arc is just about complete and they are ready for TG. What tradition will she have to battle for the AS to fight in the LB? You seriously may be the very first person I have seen here or on Theoryland that thinks they will sit it out...

[Sephie913]

I have a few thoughts on Egwene. I think it would be a slap in the face of the character to only say the positive, but I will say I'm not so vehement as some of the other people who've posted.

 

First, the good:

 

I think Egwene's time with the Seanchan has defined her thematically, as well as psychologically. She was "forced" while a damane, pushed to her limits and beyond. Much like what has happened to her with WT. Overwhelmed seems to describe her pretty well, but she puts a brave face on it. I mean, it's explicitly stated that she's younger than the TR boys by almost a year, right? that makes her nineteen at oldest, probably closer to eighteen. that puts her at seventeen when she's voted Amyrlin. But not only did she refuse to be a puppet, using every one of the few tools at her disposal to become a true Amyrlin; she has hactually been learning to lead the AS. To top it off, she strikes me as one of the few characters who will give up anything for the greater good. (as long as she sees why it's for the greater good.)

 

Now the bad:

 

When I read Egwene, I still sometimes see that girl on the Green with her hands folded under her chest, stamping her feet and wishing she had a braid to tug like "big sis Nynaeve". I think this is partially because she still idolizes Nynaeve, and has been separated from her or too long. She has not had a chance to see how Nynaeve has grown, which will show her that there is a need to grow apart from the worldview they shared. She leads AS like she would have led the Council had none of the events in TEotW happened. I think, however, that this problem will take care of itself. Ten, fifteen years of being Amyrlin, will likely see her as a competant, level-headed woman. As it is, she is still a girl learning how to be a woman, how to process logically over emotionally. No matter how hard she tries, how much she wants to be, time is the only thing that will teach her the lessons she needs to know. (look how long it took for Nynaeve to become an actual adult! ;p)

 

I also think that part of it is because we are lacking a steadying influence around her. Gawyn makes Egwene look like a grey-haired gandmonther with his maturity level, and she has pushed Siuan away, lest anyone think Siuan was the power behind the throne. Which makes Moiraine a prime cantidate for Keeper in the future. I mean, after all the Keeper troubles Egwene has had, it's about time that someone she can trust implicitly be her advisor.

 

But more than anything, it is critical for her character not to be as isolated as the Amyrlins typically are. If she doesn't have non-AS support, friends, and family, she will stay much as she is now, with a head swelling from AS-ness until it explodes.

 

All in all, I find her to be one of the characters with the most potential for future growth. Unfortunately, we won't see any of it, but I think she's headed in the right direction.

[b3arz3rg3r]

What makes you think she isn't responsible for male channelers? Give me a solid explanation. Because the have the Black Tower now and have created their own organization and have a leader? Nah. They are all pretty much just a new group of unbound male channelers being trained as weapons and that's it. They don't have ajahs or anything, they are just weapons, for the most part. What will happen after TG? Will they become mercenaries or hired hands and bounty hunters? Or even worse, will they try to take over the world for themselves?

 

They will decide for themselves, that's what. I don't understand why you want to take away their personal freedom and immediately subjugate them to Egwene. Yes, they are a group of unbound male channelers. Is there anything bad about that? If they want to rejoin the women and become part of the Aes Sedai that's up to them and no one else. Egwene being responsible for them is just typical Aes Sedai hybris. She isn't.

 

As long as the Asha'man don't break the laws of whatever country they are in at the moment they can do whatever they wish. If say the Asha'man want to become a private company which hires out various services- construction, transportation, communication, intelligence, defense etc- in return for money it's their right to do so and Egwene has no right to object. Even if the Asha'man become filthy rich and powerful that way with various countries depending on their services.

 

Most likely Rand and Taim will be dead, so who's left to lead them? Logain? While he would indeed be the best choice, how do we know what all he'll do? He doesn't exactly love Aes Sedai, remember. He suffered for months after being severed at their hands, and while he might may very well have deep respect and gratitude to Nynaeve and all those in their little group for healing him, do really think he's gonna forgive the rest of them so quickly? For all the AS know, he might want to bit of revenge after TG. I don't think so, I think he has forgiven them for the most part or is at least not holding any grudges.

 

So what if Logain is holding grudges? It's his right to do so. There is no need for anyone to control the Asha'man. They are free to act in whatever manner they wish to as long as they don't infringe upon the freedom of anyone else.

 

The thing is, the BT and the ashies stand as a major threat to them and the world, as they see it. It might not be immediate, there may very well be hundreds of years of peace with the two towers working together, but what happens in the future if they have a disagreement that escalates in both tower going to war? They could pretty much break the world again. The only way to ensure that doesn't happen is to bring the asha'man in to rejoin the Aes Sedai, making the tower completely whole for the 1st time in 3,000 or so years. So yes, she is responsible for the male channelers as Amyrlin.

 

That argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. The Asha'man may be a threat to the Aes Sedai world view, but that doesn't give them the right to do anything about it. If hundreds of years down the line Asha'man and Aes Sedai may become enemies that still doesn't give Egwene the right to take away their freedom. As I said it'll be up to the Asha'man whether they want to join the Aes Sedai. If they decide against it that's their right.

 

Also, I think when Eggy was talking about leading them, she wasn't talking about ruling them, but guiding them. Like how you lead a horse to water or lead someone down the right path.

 

Who is she to think that the Asha'man need her guidance? Leading a horse to the water? Like they were some sort of dumb beast of burden incapable of thinking for themselves? She is a twenty year old with less life experience than all but the youngest of them. She has never had to work for a living, never had to endure privation and prejudice or face being ostracised or persecuted. She may be a brilliant politician and skilled manipulator but that doesn't mean she knows what's right or wrong for them. Just because the Aes Sedai were a certain way 3,000 years ago doesn't mean the Asha'man have to become that way again unless they themselves want to.