Egwene Appreciation Thread

[RandA lThor]

He balanced it though, which means that he wasn't more bonded to rand then to egwene

[Maleshub]

Not sure why AM bonding AS became a crime. If not for Rand's instructions the AS would have been killed and it would be perfectly justified. Egwene should have thanked Rand for not allowing the AM to kill the AS.

 

Who said it was a crime? On the contrary, it saved the lives of 50+ Aes Sedai. The "criminal" element in the bonding is that it was done without the consent of the bonded Aes Sedai. Whatever Alanna got for her rape-bonding of Rand applies to the Ashaman who bonded the Aes Sedai.

I am not sure, but I think he is speaking in the context of the books. And I dont think that the AS shuold get what alanna got (which ended up being nothing officially) because they did it to infact save their lives, not just to try and exert control.

 

True, there is a difference between Alanna's bond and the Ashaman's bond. And irrelevant of the technicalities, Rand felt responsible for it and tried to make amends. The issue was Rand's responsibility for the actions (good or bad) of his followers.

[1Brotherbill]

Egwene deserves props for being advance as a modern Aes Sedai.

 

However, there are flaws with her. She acts like a child a lot. The dominance games with Nye drive me nuts. Her idea of how the White Tower should be and not what it needs to be drive me nuts as well.

 

The fact that she knows Rand is the Dragon Reborn, knows that he needs to fight the Dark One, knows that he needs to seal the Dark One back up in his prison, should back him because he is from the Two Rivers, all these things she knows about. But what does she want to do? She wants to force Rand to do what she thinks is right by the White Tower. Going behind his back to enlist all the leaders of the world to stand with the White Tower. And by the way some of these people are of questionable standing. Which everyone knows except for her and her locked up sisters.

 

Honestly she is talented but a pain in my butt. I dread the pages that deal with her. Usually can't wait until the story moves on to someone else. Problem is it usually goes to Avienda where she is owing Toh to someone somewhere.

[Suttree]

Going behind his back to enlist all the leaders of the world to stand with the White Tower.

 

Behind his back? She is doing exactly what he tricked her into doing. He purposely provoked her actions...even with this she knows she wants the rulers to suport her arguments against breaking the seals but really is gathering them for the LB.

 

ToM

They would come to support her arguments against breaking the seals. But in the end, they would serve humankind in the Last Battle.

[RandA lThor]

that's true, Rand di trick her. However, Egwene does not know that. Rand counted on Egwene gonig behind his back and wanted her to do that, but that doesn't mean she didn't do that. She still went behind his back whether or not Rand wanted her to or not.

[fionwe1987]

Let us see who Egwene gathered. Elayne(Rand's lover), Darlin (Rand's Steward) and Gregorin(Rand's Steward).

Exactly. Which should put an end to Egwene going "behind Rand's back".

The Aiel,Borderlanders and the Arad Doman king along with Perrin are summoned by Rand.

The Aiel were summoned by Rand? Egwene spoke to the WO, and they agreed with her, and she said she's collecting those opposed to Rand's plan, and they came.

 

Perrin was asked by his leige, Elayne, to come, and he came. Elayne was asked by Egwene.

 

And is Alsalam even there at FoM?

 

Out of the 3 rulers Egwene gathered all 3 are linked to Rand more than Egwene. So the question is why did he not call them himself. Well Egwene brings along the WT the only group at FOM he could not gather. So he tricked Egwene into bringing the WT for some reason which we will know in the next book.

That is ridiculous. He had no need to "trick" her. Especially not by handing over to her this kind of political momentum. His last PoV in ToM shows clearly that he's aware that things are not going to go his way easily on the next day.

 

The Amrylin could summon anyone in Randland.

In the Randloand of old? Sure she could, theoretically. But Morghase, for example, could come and yell at her too.

Now, the Aiel are in Randland she cannot summon them.

Except she did, and they came...

The Seachan control 1/3 of Rand Land, she cannot summon them.

And your point is? When has the Amyrlin been able to sommon sworn enemies? I don't remember Siuan summoning Ishamael.

I just took Taim's name as the head of the BT but it could be anyone else and again she cannot summon that person.

Says who? What makes you think, if she wanted to, she wouldn't summon the head of the BT? She'll have to offer safe passage before the guy comes, but she can do it.

These 3 groups are militarily the 3 most powerful groups in Randland and the Amyrlin has no power over them. A steep fall from the absolute power that Siuan had don't you think?

Even granting that, this assumes that "summoning" these people is the only way Egwene can exercise power, which is ridiculous. Unlike Siuan, Egwene rules over a Shadow free Tower that is teeming with Novices. The Tower's army now numbers well over a 100,000 soldiers, and is led by a Great Captain. The Tower can now call upon the Sea Folk and the Wise Ones for aid in case of a Seanchan attack. The Amyrlin has a strong personal bond with the combined ruler of Andor-Cairhein, is soon to be her sister in law, and also has an especially close relationship with her sister, Aviendha, who is soon going to lead the Wise Ones. She is a personal mentee of the most powerful Wise Ones too. Added to all this, it is an Aes Sedai who knows how to Heal the taint from the men of the BT, so she can use that, if she so chooses, to extract concessions from them. She is also well aware of the fatal flaw in the Seanchan system: sul'dam can channel too. She can use that to cause immense chaos in their ranks...

 

In every way, Egwene has assured a meteoric increase in the Power of the White Tower. As Prophesy itself has stated, so I fail to see how you're still arguing this.

She could not stomach it? She did not still Logain because she was afraid on how it would come across to Rand. Not because of compassion.

She could not stomach killing him:

 

"They will gentle him, Siuan." Egwene had been over this with her, but she needed to go over it again

for herself, to convince herself she was not making a mistake. "Even Sheriam doesn't listen to Carlinya

anympre, and Lelaine and Romanda are pressing for it. That or someone really will do what Delana has been

hinting at. I won't allow murder! If we cannot try a man and execute him, we have no right to arrange for him to

die. I will not let him be murdered, and I cannot allow him to be gentled. If Merana really has put Rand's back

up somehow, that will be tossing fat-wood in the fire. I just wish I could be sure he will go to Rand and join him

instead of running off the Light knows where, doing the Light knows what. At least that way there might be

some way to control what he does." She heard Siuan shift in the darkness.

 

And yes I think she would keep the WT in the supreme position if she could. But she is pragmatic enough to see that the power of the WT has shrunk quite a lot so she has made concessions to save what she can of the WT influence.

Go ahead and prove that. You know, with quotes and such, like I've been doing.

BTW it is unnatural the high place of women in a low tech environment like Randland.The only reason for it is that women could channel safely in the last 3000 years and that influence has filtered down to all levels of society. Now that the men can channel too, the equation is balanced and a low tech world the balance will swiftly change to the way our own world has been except for the last 50 years. The AS as a woman organization cannot be a supreme group any more.

And people get pissed when I say there is some inherent sexism in the way some Egwene-haters express themselves?

[SuperFade]

ToM

The words were those of a madman, but they were spoken evenly. She looked at him, and remembered the youth that he had been. The earnest young man. Not solemn like Perrin, but not wild like Mat. Solid, straightforward. The type of man you could trust with anything.

 

Even the fate of the world.

 

She thinks that...and then immediately opposes his plan. Which involves the fate of the world.

 

BTW it is unnatural the high place of women in a low tech environment like Randland.The only reason for it is that women could channel safely in the last 3000 years and that influence has filtered down to all levels of society. Now that the men can channel too, the equation is balanced and a low tech world the balance will swiftly change to the way our own world has been except for the last 50 years. The AS as a woman organization cannot be a supreme group any more.

And people get pissed when I say there is some inherent sexism in the way some Egwene-haters express themselves?

 

That's not sexist, though. Women did occupy a high place in Randland because they could channel and the men couldn't. It's repeatedly shown that female institutions have power over their male counterparts, and sometimes even men themselves - just look at Ebou Dar. Men being stronger physically makes less of a difference in Randland than it does in our world because strength in the power is so important. Now that men can safely channel the balance of power will no longer be held entirely by the AS, something that Egwene for all her many faults recognises.

[XXX]

 

BTW it is unnatural the high place of women in a low tech environment like Randland.The only reason for it is that women could channel safely in the last 3000 years and that influence has filtered down to all levels of society. Now that the men can channel too, the equation is balanced and a low tech world the balance will swiftly change to the way our own world has been except for the last 50 years. The AS as a woman organization cannot be a supreme group any more.

And people get pissed when I say there is some inherent sexism in the way some Egwene-haters express themselves?

 

I do not see what is so sexist in telling the facts. Look around you in nature and also the history of man kind. The physically stronger gender is almost always dominant. The only way for the physically weaker gender can become equal let alone superior is if technology or something else like that wipes out the physical advantage, In Randland that is the use of the OP exclusively for women, with that advantage gone the roles will go back to the natural equilibrium in a low tech age such as Rand Land.

 

I do not not like Egwene because she is a woman leader, I dislike her because she and the group she represents are unbearably arrogant. My fav character is Rand but I could not stand him in the last 2 books before TOM because of his arrogance.

[Suttree]

ToM

The words were those of a madman, but they were spoken evenly. She looked at him, and remembered the youth that he had been. The earnest young man. Not solemn like Perrin, but not wild like Mat. Solid, straightforward. The type of man you could trust with anything.

 

Even the fate of the world.

 

She thinks that...and then immediately opposes his plan. Which involves the fate of the world.

 

Wrong, Rand has no plan. She opposes his breaking of the seals of which he refused to discuss anything, so she is meeting him at the FoM to continue talks. If Min finds out how to seal the bore and Rand explains a rational reason that quote is fairly nice forshadowing that she will go along. Either way she views him as his old self which was the point.

[Vardar]

For anyone wondering what the hell he's on about, the source of that "conspiracy" is the author, who said in the interview that he wanted to correct a "mis-perception."

Brandon isn't the only one who has had to do this. RJ had to do it too, when Egwene-haters got pissed that she dared to think Rand would use compulsion.

 

The fact is, both authors have had to "clarify" their scenes because everything Egwene does always has such a negative spin put on it. If Nynaeve says, "I'm going to wring Rand al'Thor's neck the next time I see him", fans read it for the exaggerated statement it is. If Egwene says something like that, RJ/Brandon would probably have to clarify that she was only joking...

 

And right there we have all the evidence we need that Egwene-hate tends to get out of bounds, and is exaggerated to ridiculous extents.

 

And yes, she drinks the cool aid of the WT a bit too much. But so does Nynaeve, or Elayne, or any woman who ends up in the Tower. They all see what it can be. When they talk with respect about the Tower, they mean the organization and its 3000 year history, not its current sorry state.

 

Nynaeve still seems to understand AS aren't infailable. So does Elyane, although for different reasons (Elyane grew up knowing it). I will agree she drinks deep of the Kool-Aid. Maybe that's the problem. That and the face the presents to the outside world that all is fine and the tower is still a source of awesomeness that never fails.

[Vardar]

Well, it may not have been in that moment, but in that sentence, you can still see that she doesn't think of him as a person who makes mistakes, but as a figure who needs to correct himself. This may not state directly that she thinks he should be controlled, but it still implies it. At least, that's the message I got when I read this passage.

 

But the Ashaman are Rand's responsibility. He created the BT from scratch without inheriting any problems. And he disregarded Taim's ambitions and suspicious actions to create his weapons.

 

Egwene stated that Rand would need guidance and that the WT should have been the source of that guidance. But that is different from "control." In fact, she is against controlling Rand since that will prevent him from fulfilling the prophecies.

 

Whoa. Whoa. WHOA! How can Rand, or the BT be to BLAME for bonding AS? If anything, they should be thanked that they didn't just kill all the Aes Sedai that came to murder them all. Come on now. Bonding in self defense vs killing them as they had every right too.

 

It's another example of what's wrong with Eggy. AS went to murder dozens of men, and they captured them instead, and she blames the men. BS.

[Suttree]

It's another example of what's wrong with Eggy. AS went to murder dozens of men, and they captured them instead, and she blames the men. BS.

 

I can't recall, is Egwene privvy to the fact that Elaida sent them to murder rather than still(given that the taint was still present at the time)?

[fionwe1987]

That's not sexist, though. Women did occupy a high place in Randland because they could channel and the men couldn't. It's repeatedly shown that female institutions have power over their male counterparts, and sometimes even men themselves - just look at Ebou Dar. Men being stronger physically makes less of a difference in Randland than it does in our world because strength in the power is so important. Now that men can safely channel the balance of power will no longer be held entirely by the AS, something that Egwene for all her many faults recognises.

The problem with this line of argument is that it assumes that channeling is the only reason women have more power than men in WoT. Its a similar problem to the assumption that in our world, men hold greater power only because they're physically stronger.

 

Take the Aiel, for example. Most of them didn't even know the Wise Ones could channel. Yet political power rests solely in the hands of women. Women (channelers or not) can become Wise Ones and interfere with the political affairs of Clan Chiefs. The Clan Chiefs have to marry a roofmistress, and it is the roofmistress who own property, and can send a Clan Chief packing from his hold if she so chooses. And this is in an extreme militaristic culture where the greater physical strength of men is manifestly obvious in the fact that there are 12 male warrior societies to the single female one. And male channelers have no stigma associated with them among the Aiel (they gain much ji by voluntarily going to the Blight and battling Sightblinder). So how is the secret channeling of a subset of the Wise Ones supposed to explain the greater power women weild in this military society?

 

I do not see what is so sexist in telling the facts. Look around you in nature and also the history of man kind. The physically stronger gender is almost always dominant.

Except it isn't. There are several matriarchies in the world, and several societies in history have had women in much greater positions of power than Medieval Europe. There is nothing inevitable or natural about the dominance of men over women, and to imply so is sexist.

 

The only way for the physically weaker gender can become equal let alone superior is if technology or something else like that wipes out the physical advantage, In Randland that is the use of the OP exclusively for women, with that advantage gone the roles will go back to the natural equilibrium in a low tech age such as Rand Land.

Oh. So despite the fact that women and men are equally capable with the Power, men will soon dominate because they are physically stronger? How is this not a sexist viewpoint?

I do not not like Egwene because she is a woman leader, I dislike her because she and the group she represents are unbearably arrogant. My fav character is Rand but I could not stand him in the last 2 books before TOM because of his arrogance.

Here's the problem, though. You think Egwene's "group" is arrogant because they do things outside the reach of their power. Except what you define as "out of the reach of their power" is based on your sexist view that it is natural for men to dominate. You're ignoring right there that after 3000 years of men being the "weaker" sex, their rise to equality with women is not going to be immediate or assured, and will in large part depend on the women agreeing to grant them equality, not on the men forcing it on the women.

[fionwe1987]

Nynaeve still seems to understand AS aren't infailable. So does Elyane, although for different reasons (Elyane grew up knowing it).

And Egwene does not? Explain to me her quote where she says Bair is not wrong to call them all fools.

I will agree she drinks deep of the Kool-Aid. Maybe that's the problem. That and the face the presents to the outside world that all is fine and the tower is still a source of awesomeness that never fails.

That is the right thing to do though. The approcach of the end of the world is the worst time to admit publicly to your weaknesses. Whether you like it or not, the public perception of Aes Sedai infallibility is a huge morale booster for the Light. Aes Sedai presence in the battle lines will make soldiers less likey to give up, less likely to dispair and lose the hope of victory.

 

And even Nynaeve only discusses the Aes Sedai infallibility in private. In public, she's all about upholding Aes Sedai dignity (see Elayne's quote on this in WH).

 

And are people really serious with the bonding? Since when was the Asha'man's choice between killing the Aes Sedai and bonding them? What about holding them shielded? Why wasn't that done? Exactly how are people saying "they were made into compelled slaves, dependent on the survival of their captors. They should be thankful they were made into slaves instead of being killed!" Why not hand a Nobel Prize to Graendal for compelling people instead of killing them, while you're at it?

[Vardar]

It's another example of what's wrong with Eggy. AS went to murder dozens of men, and they captured them instead, and she blames the men. BS.

 

I can't recall, is Egwene privvy to the fact that Elaida sent them to murder rather than still(given that the taint was still present at the time)?

 

If she knew how the women were bonded, one would assume she knew why they went there. Unless she just assumes Dozens of AS were singled out for no reason. Perhaps she's that stupid, but I doubt it.

 

That is the right thing to do though. The approcach of the end of the world is the worst time to admit publicly to your weaknesses. Whether you like it or not, the public perception of Aes Sedai infallibility is a huge morale booster for the Light. Aes Sedai presence in the battle lines will make soldiers less likey to give up, less likely to dispair and lose the hope of victory.

 

And even Nynaeve only discusses the Aes Sedai infallibility in private. In public, she's all about upholding Aes Sedai dignity (see Elayne's quote on this in WH).

 

See I disagree here. presenting the front to the world that you can handle the situation and appearing to be God-like are two vastly different things. You can instill confidence while admitting to the world you can fail. See Perrin for this or Mat, as much as I dislike Perrin.

 

And are people really serious with the bonding? Since when was the Asha'man's choice between killing the Aes Sedai and bonding them? What about holding them shielded? Why wasn't that done? Exactly how are people saying "they were made into compelled slaves, dependent on the survival of their captors. They should be thankful they were made into slaves instead of being killed!" Why not hand a Nobel Prize to Graendal for compelling people instead of killing them, while you're at it?

 

Really? That's what you're comparing. Fact is, someone came to MURDER you. In this situation, nearly every court in the world would claim you're innocent if you defended yourself and killed them. I'll go back to my Perrin example from another thread for the shielding part. In a world awash in war and chaos you think shielding so many AS is a good idea? It's a horrible idea. You think the White Tower would have done the same? No, they would have destroyed those men. Why? Because they think that's what they should do, and they understand how hard holding them all would be. At the end of the day, those women should have been slain, in fact they probably have Logain to thank for that, as Taim probably would have killed them all. If anything Eggy should be Thanking Rand for not murdering dozens of sisters, instead she blames him for the bonding, as if its ok for women to bond men, but how dare a man think of bonding a woman. Another example of her superiority complex in my mind.

[Suttree]

If she knew how the women were bonded, one would assume she knew why they went there. Unless she just assumes Dozens of AS were singled out for no reason. Perhaps she's that stupid, but I doubt it.

 

Why would Egwene know that the Ashaman "extra bit" bond differs from the AS one? That isn't common knowledge. If she thinks the AS were sent to still there are indeed other options such as shielding(although I don't have a huge issue with what they did). In essence they were enemy combatants. Much like the soldiers and damane that Rand captured and had shielded in the Damona campaign. Killing them/bonding them in that manner are not the only two options.

[sleepinghour]

You're ignoring right there that after 3000 years of men being the "weaker" sex, their rise to equality with women is not going to be immediate or assured, and will in large part depend on the women agreeing to grant them equality, not on the men forcing it on the women.

 

I think much will depend on what happens during the Last Battle; there are many events that could sway public opinion in either direction.

 

If Logain and his Asha'man show up at Tarwin's Gap on Rand's order, everyone will remember that male channelers saved the Borderlands while the Aes Sedai once again failed to show up when they were needed. That's the kind of thing your average Joe Randlander will hear about, not "the Amyrlin killed dozens of Black Ajah in some kind of dream world called Tel'aran'rhiod."

 

Merrilor also has the potential to be a huge PR disaster for Egwene and the Aes Sedai. Will people blame Egwene and Elayne for what happened to Caemlyn or any other country that was attacked after Egwene ordered the monarchs to leave with their armies?

 

The Tower is already guaranteed both great and terrible PR by Loial's book in which he describes the events that led to Dumai's Wells, but also how Nynaeve linked with Rand for the Cleansing and Cadsuane's group fought the Forsaken. I think the world after Tarmon Gai'don will be a more balanced world, if not always in ways that Aes Sedai will like.

[Suttree]

If Logain and his Asha'man show up at Tarwin's Gap on Rand's order, everyone will remember that male channelers saved the Borderlands while the Aes Sedai once again failed to show up when they were needed. That's the kind of thing your average Joe Randlander will hear about, not "the Amyrlin killed dozens of Black Ajah in some kind of dream world called Tel'aran'rhiod."

 

Which will of course be balanced by Taim and his cronies fighting for the Shadow(if they aren't all all taken down at the BT of course). Joe Randlander will most certainly hear about that and not be able differentiate betweem the two sets of Asha'man.

[wookiebear]

If Logain and his Asha'man show up at Tarwin's Gap on Rand's order, everyone will remember that male channelers saved the Borderlands while the Aes Sedai once again failed to show up when they were needed. That's the kind of thing your average Joe Randlander will hear about, not "the Amyrlin killed dozens of Black Ajah in some kind of dream world called Tel'aran'rhiod."

 

Which will of course be balanced by Taim and his cronies fighting for the Shadow(if they aren't all all taken down at the BT of course). Joe Randlander will most certainly hear about that and not be able differentiate betweem the two sets of Asha'man.

 

I think that there will be those fighting for the Shadow or both sexes that will be remembered. Some of the most legendary and feared of the Forsaken were the females, Lanfear, Graendahl, Semirhage.

 

If Joe Randlander (I like that idea by the way ) cannot tell the difference between the good and bad Asha'man, why would they differentiate between good and bad Aes Sedai?

 

Those without power will fear those that have it, wether that power be the One power or of a more mundane source. Bad people are bad, and if they don't come with a scorecard can be hard to tell the difference when the fighting starts. If they aren't actively trying to kill you they are probably the good guys.........

 

That being said, the Aes Sedai under Egwene have traveling, and a situation such as Malkier falling due to lack of time to get to the front is less of an issue at the present due to this rediscovered ability. Her ability to lead and to direct support to where it is most needed IMO will be a turning point in the last battle. The gathering at the FoM gets everyone needed together and from there they can go, in little to no time, to where they have to be to allow them the chance to defeat the Shadow.

 

We as fans get to sit and see all sides of all stories, it is often hard to remember that the characters have to react to only what they know. I salute the authors ability to allow their characters this flaw, for it would be easy to forget what the character does not know and write them as infallible in the extreme. Many of the complaints of regarding various characters could be due to what we know that they do not...........

 

edited for grammer....my bane

[Suttree]

If Joe Randlander (I like that idea by the way ) cannot tell the difference between the good and bad Asha'man, why would they differentiate between good and bad Aes Sedai?

 

Because AS have three thousand years of tradition backing up their institution. The BT are male channelers, most don't even know that taint has been cleansed. They are the stuff of nightmares, of course they are fighting for the shadow to your average commoner.

[XXX]

Except it isn't. There are several matriarchies in the world, and several societies in history have had women in much greater positions of power than Medieval Europe. There is nothing inevitable or natural about the dominance of men over women, and to imply so is sexist.

 

 

But it is. The vast vast majority of monarchies,ruling bodies etc from the entire recorded history of mankind are led by men not women. And there is a reason for it. The aberration is not the norm.

 

Oh. So despite the fact that women and men are equally capable with the Power, men will soon dominate because they are physically stronger? How is this not a sexist viewpoint?

 

 

The OP equals out but unless the technology level is high in general society like in the AoL where society was gender neutral in current Rand land physical power will dominate. And that means men in this case. Again how is stating a fact supported by hundreds of thousands of human history become sexist?

 

Here's the problem, though. You think Egwene's "group" is arrogant because they do things outside the reach of their power. Except what you define as "out of the reach of their power" is based on your sexist view that it is natural for men to dominate. You're ignoring right there that after 3000 years of men being the "weaker" sex, their rise to equality with women is not going to be immediate or assured, and will in large part depend on the women agreeing to grant them equality, not on the men forcing it on the women.

 

Again the physically stronger gender dominates naturally in a low tech environment. There is nothing to give the stronger gender takes over by force. The female lion does not stand below the male because she wants to.It is because she has to. The female Hyena stands above the male hyena again for the same reason. And it is the same reason man has generally dominated over women for almost all of recorded human history.

 

However you slice and dice it the age of the AS ruling as a female society is finished. Now maybe the men will join and the WT becomes stronger than ever as a gender neutral organization. Certainly possible.

[Edynol]

Also remember that much of the world believe all Aes Sedai are responsible for breaking the world, man or woman. Also let's not forget the Seanchan and their Damane, which are all female. Do think people who haven't encountered them poersonally will differentiate between them and Aes Sedai? At the beginning, with Falme, the Whitecloaks spread a lot of word around about Aes Sedai fighting with the Seanchan to take over the world.

 

But mainly, people will know about Rand, the Dragon, who is a male channeler who saved the world, that in itself will elevate their opinions of male channelers. Also remember while most of the world may respect the Aes Sedai, they also don't trust them or are wary of them at best. Look at Tear. Or most of Andor, who's queen has always had an Aes Sedai advisor. The Borderlands, and perhaps Cairhien, are about the only kingdoms who revere Aes Sedai and know what they're truly about.

 

Both male and female channelers will seen in good and bad ways by the end of this, and I think both will be equal. Also remember Eggy isn't a dumb person, Moiraine taught her well. Remember in book one where Moiraine explained to Eggy that the men who broke the world weren't evil? They just went mad. It wasn't really their fault, as far as intent goes. I'm hoping Eggy will remember that when all is over and work to bring men back into the fold as Aes Sedai.

[b3arz3rg3r]

If Joe Randlander (I like that idea by the way ) cannot tell the difference between the good and bad Asha'man, why would they differentiate between good and bad Aes Sedai?

 

Because AS have three thousand years of tradition backing up their institution. The BT are male channelers, most don't even know that taint has been cleansed. They are the stuff of nightmares, of course they are fighting for the shadow to your average commoner.

 

The books seem to disagree with your assessment, because after the initial reaction of fear the Asha'man were accepted rather quickly by most they come into contact with.They may not be trusted, but neither are Aes Sedai really and from what we've seen they aren't actively avoided by people and far from being hated quite a few are friendly with them or even admiring them. I'd say most Joe Randlander will hear about the Asha'man are the second or third hand tales of those who fought at their side and those tales may actually be rather favourable. Once people accept that saidin is clean I'd say the horror stories about them will disappear rather quickly.

It's probably the ta'veren effect which is partly responsible for the surprisingly quick change of heart, so one might argue in a way the Pattern is demanding male channellers to be accepted by people again.

As for the Aes Sedai, despite 3,000 years of tradition most men still distrust them and want nothing to do with them. So I wonder whether that would actually be in their favour.

 

Besides if the Trolloc Wars are any guide the people don't seem to differentiate much whether it's male or female channellers who serve the shadow. Both sexes are called shadowlords I believe. Or at least I can't remember having heard of any shadowladies.

[Edynol]

Yeah they are both called Dreadlords.

[Suttree]

The books seem to disagree with your assessment, because after the initial reaction of fear the Asha'man were accepted rather quickly by most they come into contact with.

 

The book disagrees with me? How about what Rand thinks...

 

 

Not much different from what his own people did in gentling men, truth be told. “Saidin is cleansed now,” he said to her. “This practice must stop.”

She pursed her lips, regarding him. “Your . . . man spoke of this, Coramoor. Some find it difficult to accept.”

“It is true,” he said firmly.

“I do not doubt that you believe it to be so.”

Rand gritted his teeth, forcing down another burst of anger, his hand forming a fist. He had cleansed the taint! He, Rand al'Thor, had performed a deed the likes of which had not been seen since the Age of Legends. And how was it treated? With suspicion and doubt. Most assumed that he was going mad, and therefore seeing a "cleansing" that had not really happened.

Men who could channel were always distrusted. Yet they were the only ones who could confirm what Rand said! He'd imagined joy and wonder at the victory, but he should have known better. Though male Aes Sedai had once been as respected as their female counterparts, that had been long ago. The days of Jorlen Corbesan had been lost in time. All people could remember now was the Breaking and the Madness.

They hated male channelers.

 

The taint being clean will not be accepted overnight and if(not saying it will happen) Taim and the BT cronies commits major atrocities they will not differentiate. So there is mine, care to attempt to support your assessment?