Official AMOL Cover Art (Spoilers)

[TristanWebb]

Hmm, I think he is holding that sword wrong. no wonder he thought he couldn't fight one handed.

[FarShainMael]

You could also do what I did, which was do save the image itself and inspect it in a graphics package (JPEG artefacts and all).

 

What's that round thing in the crack beneath 'Moiraine'? I don't think it's an artefact...

[Terez]

That legend, of Boann and the Dagda, in which a nine-month pregnancy is completed in the Underworld to appear in the real world as having only taken a day, is a neat idea for what has to happen to Elayne to complete her pregnancy in time for the possibly heralds of the Next Age to be born in time.

 

(I'm seriously summarising it here.)

 

Right, I never liked the theory that she would have them at Shayol Ghul (seems a silly place to have your babies), and as TGS and TOM came out it got clearer that the timing was wrong for her to have them at all before the end. But then I started getting curious as to whether the Boann ties in the TFOH foreshadowing (with Marigan and Nynaeve) were significant, and I got to looking around and saw that it might well be very significant, since so many details fit. I wish I knew myths and legends a little better; a lot of this would probably be easier to figure out if I did.

 

For those wondering, here's a good summary. And here's the foreshadowing I'm talking about:

 

Marigan, a few years older, had been plump once, but her frayed brown dress hung on her loosely now, and her blunt face looked beyond weary. Her two sons, six and seven, stared silently at the world with too-big eyes; clinging to each other, they seemed frightened of everything and everyone else, even their own mother. Marigan had dealt in cures and herbs in Samara, though she had some odd ideas about both. That was no wonder, really; a woman who offered healing with Amadicia and Whitecloaks right across the river had to keep low, and even from the first she had had to teach herself. All she had ever wanted to do was cure sickness, and she claimed to have done it well, though she had not been able to save her husband. The five years since his death had been hard, and the coming of the Prophet had certainly not helped her any. Mobs searching for Aes Sedai chased her into hiding after she had cured a man of fever and rumor had turned it into bringing him back from the dead. That was how little most people knew of Aes Sedai; death was beyond the power to Heal. Even Marigan seemed to think it was not. She did not know where she was going any more than Nicola. A village somewhere, she hoped, where she could dispense herbs again in peace.

 

Marigan is the one who taught Nynaeve how to 'heal' death, just a few chapters before. The name of the town, Boannda, seems insignificant, but one of Birgitte's strongest parallels is Birgit, who is from the same Irish legends as Boann and the Dagda, and Moghedien's alias, Marigan, ties her to Morrigan, also from the same legends (and also tied to Morgaine, Morgan le Fay, of Arthurian legend). Furthermore, both Boann and the Dagda have name parallels in WoT: Semirhage (Nemene Damendar Boann) and Dagdara (the best of the Yellows in Salidar before Nynaeve). Both are great Healers, and both are evil. And so the name of the chapter, seemingly random, adds weight to the healing aspect of the foreshadowing above, and at the same time it gives more hints about the events surrounding Rand's death. The fact that Elayne is present is probably also significant. And Nicola, who gives one of the best prophecies for figuring out what's going on at the time of Rand's death.

[FarShainMael]

Ignore me. It's too early in the morning here.

[Terez]

I missed it, whatever it was.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Nice posts, I understand the theory better now, makes sense Terez. It is very possible, it would certainly be more in depth rather than just a play on words.

 

 

Just about the eclipse (in general, not directed at anyone)

 

It may not be what is traditionally considered an eclipse. In fact, I think that it is the wrong word to use, since I agree that Eclipse as we know it would be pretty lame.

 

I suppose it was my fault in part for calling it an eclipse.

 

Tor's description of it is better:

 

Here, Rand stands with Callandor on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, heading down into its depths to confront the Dark One even as the sun itself vanishes from the world

 

I think then, it is not an eclipse, but the DO unravelling the Pattern and causing the sun to "vanish", It looks like your ordinary eclipse, but I think it is the only way to show the sun gradually vanishing.

 

So with this in mind, I interpret the "Twice Dawns the Day, Once for mourning, once for birth" (paraphrased) as such:

 

1. The "darkest hour" is the first dawn, for mourning. In fact, this supports the theories of Rand dying beforehand. Mourning for the loss of something anyway, whether or not this is Rand dying, I see it as the DO is "winning". Thus, because the DO is winning he extends his influence and actually makes the sun vanish.

 

2. Rand comes along and has his fight with the DO, driving him back, and the sun then reappears, for the birth of the new world, untainted by the DO. You could argue it would then be "re-birth" and that this doesn't apply to the prophecy, but I think it is the turning of the Wheel, the beginning , or birth of the new age. I don't think Elayne's children will actually be born at Shayol Ghul. She could be in Caemlyn, or somewhere else. It would be extremely stupid to go to Shayol Ghul pregnant. The birth and timing doesn't really bother me, channelling has strange effects on pregnant women, no morning sickness, etc... So I don't see why it isn't possible for the children to be born early, they are Rand's children, and if they are Calian and Shiva, who knows?

 

Forgetting birth or not of Elayne's children, it is possible that the sealing of the DO = to a "birth" of a new world. Possibly the "birth" of life at Shayol Ghul and the blasted lands.

[TristanWebb]

Meh, an impression from Nynaeve about a person who was a forsaken in disguise. Moggy was good enough at acting to make black sisters think she was being beaten night and day while living in their house, I don't think pretending to believe what everyone else believes would be too hard for her.

[FarShainMael]

I missed it, whatever it was.

 

I repeated your reference, was all. Blood and ashes, I need more tea, I'm just not awake yet

[Terez]

Meh, an impression from Nynaeve about a person who was a forsaken in disguise. Moggy was good enough at acting to make black sisters think she was being beaten night and day while living in their house, I don't think pretending to believe what everyone else believes would be too hard for her.

 

Not sure what you're getting at here? Nynaeve's impressions are pretty irrelevant since it's foreshadowing of the 'innocent' kind (meaning her impressions are not supposed to be relevant, beyond the irony factor).

[Terez]

The birth and timing doesn't really bother me, channelling has strange effects on pregnant women, no morning sickness, etc... So I don't see why it isn't possible for the children to be born early, they are Rand's children, and if they are Calian and Shiva, who knows?

 

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that her babies can be born so prematurely just because she can channel, or because they're Heroes of the Horn. She's been examined by a Muggle midwife, and there doesn't appear to be anything odd about their development.

 

But yes, the general assumption is that the first dawn is followed by Rand's death (and mourning), and that the second dawn signals his return.

[Barid Bel Medar]

The birth and timing doesn't really bother me, channelling has strange effects on pregnant women, no morning sickness, etc... So I don't see why it isn't possible for the children to be born early, they are Rand's children, and if they are Calian and Shiva, who knows?

 

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that her babies can be born so prematurely just because she can channel, or because they're Heroes of the Horn. She's been examined by a Muggle midwife, and there doesn't appear to be anything odd about their development.

 

But yes, the general assumption is that the first dawn is followed by Rand's death (and mourning), and that the second dawn signals his return.

 

Yeah, I actually wrote a whole thing about channeling effects on the child, then I realised Melaine and her pregnancy. I must have missed it out! Damn.. As I said though, I don't think it neccesarily has anything to do with an actual "birth", and not Elayne's children.

 

True on the second part, most likely correct, although I replaced the second dawn to be the rebirth of Shayol Ghul/Blasted Lands/DO ravaged Pattern, after the bore has been sealed, so it fits in to the "vanishing sun" thing. But beside the point, that's just my opinion.

[Alric]

Could it be Moiraine and Cyndane? If I remember correctly, Cyndane/Mierin/Lanfear is now blonde and not particularly tall.

 

I have not read ToM yet, so forgive me if it is impossible for plot reasons.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Could it be Moiraine and Cyndane? If I remember correctly, Cyndane/Mierin/Lanfear is now blonde and not particularly tall.

 

I have not read ToM yet, so forgive me if it is impossible for plot reasons.

 

Well, I suppose at a strech you could say it was, but the description by Tor says they are two Aes Sedai, who have been with him since the very beginning. (paraphrased)

 

Lanfear was kinda there since near the start. But she hates Aes Sedai, and Moiriane/Egwene/Nynaeve are the only ones that fit the description.And Egwene at this point seems an unlikely choice considering what is happening. Moiriane would be perfect though.

 

Edit: Whoops, didn't see you hadn't read it!

[fikkie77]

See my comment at the newsstory:

tor.com says two things about the women:

1. they were with him from the beginning

2. they are Aes Sedai.

 

Lanfear is not Aes Sedai anymore (not since millenia) and she appeared in TGH, not really the beginning.

 

Only Moiraine, Egwene, Nynaeve and maybe Elayne fit the description. But it isn't Elayne, as she is either pregant or has just delivered her babies. Egwene is also very unlikely.

[Alric]

Yep, you are probably right and its not very likely. I was just trying to extrapolate from the presumption that Whelan had gotten the characters exactly right and that would have excluded some of the more obvious alternatives. I would totally love if it is Moiraine and Nynaeve, that is the perfect scene for the Last Battle in my opinion.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yep, you are probably right and its not very likely. I was just trying to extrapolate from the presumption that Whelan had gotten the characters exactly right and that would have excluded some of the more obvious alternatives. I would totally love if it is Moiraine and Nynaeve, that is the perfect scene for the Last Battle in my opinion.

 

It is a good idea, and technically it is not 100% who these two are, but due to events in the books (like the Cleansing, Rand and Nynaeve worked together on it, the LB cannot be won without Moiraine, even though she is presumed dead), and the description from Tor, we can say with some degree of accuracy that these two are Moiraine and Nynaeve,

[Rufae]

Keep in mind the real world mythology that Wheel of Time is based off of.

 

If we look at the Christian sotry of Christ suffering, death, and ressurection; at the time of Jesus' death, there was unnatural darkness from noon until 3 PM. So I think the eclipse in the WoT would be an unnatural one caused by the DO. Such long darkness and then reappearance of sun would very much seem like a "new dawn".

[yoniy0]

I have a few points I'd like to discuss.

 

The first, the identity of the women in the picture -- I think their clothing is very telling. Moiraine seems to be wearing the exact same coat she does on the ebook cover of NS. We know Nynaeve likes to wear yellow and green. Also, the ki'sain is clear between Nynaeve's eyes, and there definitely is something wrapped around Moiraine's forehead, which almost has to be a kesiera. Considering the only good substitute would be Egwene (Elayne was there since pretty much the beginning, but not the very beginning), I don't see much room for skepticism.

 

Now, regarding the eclipse. I would like to start by saying I've always agreed with the reasons Terez describes for why and how Rand has to die and be resurrected. I still do like the bit about Egwene's 2nd test (in imaginary Caemlyn) for a foreshadowing of it, although I have to admit I forgot some of the Arthurian parallels. Also, however we think it might come to pass, Nicola's Foretelling (with the boat, Rand and his harem) likely has to tie in with that.

However, I don't see why that necessarily connects to the eclipse and the line about "Twice dawns the day". Yes, his blood has to be shed on that day, but not his life's blood. He could well die in a manner that has nothing to do with his blood "free[ing] man from the Shadow". This argument gains weight from the other blooding, the one that should "bring us the Darkness so beautiful", also appearing in the prophecies (as I know Terez also noted).

So, in summery, I definitely like this theory, but I don't think this contradicts in the slightest with an Eclipse fulfilling that line of prophecy. And, as I've said before, since we did get a little literal a couple of pages back, I would like to point out that the prophecy says nothing of "a dawn" occurring. True, a dawn (n.) is when the sun comes over the horizon. However, something that "dawns" (v.) could very well be something that begins, even if it begins anew (i.e., it begins but not for the first time). Following that line of reasoning, I believe a day can dawn after a long eclipse, particularly if the eclipse in question has a mythical nature, or if it's also a metaphor for man's struggle against the Shadow.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yeah, I agree with you pretty much here. Nice part about the "dawn" and "dawns", should have seen that. I revised my standing (much to my humiliation ) on the thing, that it is not actually an eclipse at all, but the DO making the sun "vanish", as it is described in Tor's description.

 

Edit: Not going into it, I will wait until AMoL comes out to find out! I can only do so much theorizing on one subject!

[Wheel of Thyme]

I like the idea that one of the knives or daggars Rand is seen carrying is the one that wards off Shadowspawn; the terangreal Aviendha "read". However, that would require communication between the characters, and that doesnt seem to happen in these books.

[he who comes with a bong]

o i think they are all going to be communicating in this last and epic book. and ty ty on the knife idea everyone who counts is pretty much at the meeting place. and everyones storylines are comming to a head.

[fikkie77]

There is some communication going on. Avi and Elayne are Rand's lovers. Finding a knife which makes you invisible to Shadowspawn is really what the Dragon needs and they know it. Avi or Elayne certainly gave it to Rand, probably around his visit to Elayne in Caemlin.

[Terez]

It doesn't really seem to match the description. Not that that necessarily makes a difference...

[TheAngryDruid]

You all type too fast. I've been trying to reply for a bit.

 

Terez, the Westlands have pre-rennaisance understanding of the cosmos, so an eclipse could hardly fail but be considered a mystical event; additionally, as I said, there is a Jesus parallel.

 

Their understanding of the cosmos, whatever it might be, has no bearing on the wording of a prophecy, and I think you might actually be underestimating their understanding. And why do you keep bringing up the Jesus parallel? It still has nothing to do with the definition of the word 'dawn'.

 

Fair enough, a valid reason.

 

Although I would hardly say it is big evidence.

 

The definition of the word is not 'big evidence'? That's like the meaning of 'is'.

 

Along with the Karatheon cycle is almost never scientifically accurate.

 

You might want to give an example here.

 

Terez, as is your want, your focus, though tightly refined, is too narrow. You keep refering to the word 'dawn' as a noun, but the word is also a verb. It is in this usage that the term can easily be applied to an eclipse. One definition of the verb is: begin to grow light. Further, a figurtive definition (begin to appear or become visible or evident) could also be used, but that is usually more for the the like of an idea finally dawning on someone.

 

Still, treating dawn as exlcusive to the morning is factually incorrect. The word has a broader meaning.

[Southpaw89]

I find it touching that on the book cover of The Eye of the World it shows a full moon and now on the final cover it shows an eclipse of the sun. Idk why but I just find it brilliant.